In this episode of 'The Next Next,' host Jason Jacobs delves into the intricacies of youth sports and athlete development, focusing particularly on the innovations and growth spearheaded by Nathan Bowen, co-founder of Total Package Hockey (TPH) and TPH Academy. Bowen discusses the founding and evolution of TPH, emphasizing the importance of holistic development for student-athletes, blending academics, sports training, and character building. Highlighting TPH’s expansion to multi-sport academies, Bowen explains how TPH supports both elite-level athletes and those seeking personal growth through sports. The conversation also touches upon the role of technology in sports development and how TPH Academy integrates video analysis to enhance training effectiveness. This insightful dialogue showcases the balance between talent, passion, and education, offering a comprehensive look at modern approaches to youth sports development.
Unpacking Youth Athlete Development with Nathan Bowen of Total Package Hockey
In this engaging episode of The Next Next, host Jason Jacobs delves into the complexities of youth athlete development with Nathan Bowen, co-founder of Total Package Hockey and TPH Academy. The discussion explores Bowen's founding journey, the expansion of TPH Academy, the balance between sports specialization and sampling, and the importance of holistic development. They also touch on the evolving role of technology in sports, the critical traits of successful athletes and coaches, and strategies for navigating the challenging landscape of youth sports. Bowen shares insights from his experience in building TPH Academy, stressing the significance of passion, compete level, and personalized coaching in unlocking a student's full potential.
00:00 Introduction to the Show and Host
00:56 Guest Introduction: Nathan Bowen
01:48 Nathan Bowen's Journey in Hockey
03:35 Founding Total Package Hockey and TPH Academy
06:20 Expanding TPH: Camps, Clinics, and Academies
09:41 Balancing Passion and Business in Sports
30:23 Academy Model vs. Traditional Schooling
35:16 Parental Guidance in Youth Sports
39:01 Parental Advice for Building Leaders
39:40 The Evolution of Sports Development Paths
41:18 Balancing Sports and Personal Interests
46:18 The Role of Technology in Sports
59:09 Characteristics of Special Players and Coaches
01:03:58 Balancing Professional and Personal Life
01:07:40 Closing Thoughts and Future Plans
[00:00:00]
Jason Jacobs: Welcome to the next. Next. I'm the host, Jason Jacobs. This is a show that is sorting through the nuances of athlete development, specifically focused on youth sports. I'm coming at it from the perspective of a founder. I. Who is exploring building my next company in this area, specifically around a digital platform that can help players and families navigate the athletic journey, but also as a sports dad since these days, it's hard to be a sports parent.
There's plenty of areas where there's clear. Rights and wrongs, and it's black and white, but there's a lot of gray area, and I know I struggle with that gray area, and I think a lot of others do as well. So this is a show that sorts through the nuances of athlete development by talking to well-placed experts from a wide range of backgrounds.
I bring my intellectual curiosity, ask a lot of questions, and try to inform my worldview and help listeners to do the same. Today's guest is Nathan Bowen. Nathan's the [00:01:00] co-founder of Total Package Hockey and TPH Academy, and, uh, both of them are super impressive. TPH Academy has, I think he said 19 academies and it's gonna be 25 by next year.
That started in hockey. That's where their roots are, but they're starting to go multi-sport as well. And then total package hockey runs a ton of camps and clinics and. Tournament teams and prospect teams, and generally they're just super well placed and have a really interesting perspective on the state of the sport, the state of player development, the dos and the don'ts from an athlete standpoint and from a parent standpoint, and what it takes to stand out and to go far in your journey.
We cover all of that and more. It's a really great discussion. .
Okay. Nathan Bowen, welcome to the show.
Nathan Bowen: Uh, really appreciate it Jason. Looking forward to this conversation.
Jason Jacobs: I'm psyched and a bit nervous, to be honest. It, uh, I mean, we graduated college [00:02:00] around the same time, and when I or I think the exact same time and when I was playing back at, you know, and I I've talked about this in earlier pods. I mean, playing is a, is a generous word because I really didn't have my head screwed on.
Right. And I, you know, I quit two games in a sophomore year. But I played division three for a little bit and you guys were like the number one every year, like, you know, kind of running the table and, um, so yeah, it's an honor from that standpoint. But then, I mean, you've been working in hockey ever since and what you've built is incredible.
And, and as I make the rounds, I should also tell you that you know, your name keeps coming up as someone, who's doing it right? So, you know, as a relative newcomer to the business of hockey, kudos for that as well.
Nathan Bowen: I really appreciate the kind words. I think, you know, first and foremost, as you know, having built something, it's, uh, never about one person. You know, we, we've, right now we've got an incredible team in place, and over the last 24 years of building out our founding brand in total package hockey we've just had [00:03:00] some incredible people and, and in our very first days, uh.
You know, uh, we've had Dwayne Blaze who's, uh, now with the Red Wings in, in a player development role, and Stevie Breer, who has been with the Leafs and, uh, the Seattle Kraken in the NHL and Ryan McCormick, who's been involved in hockey for 20 plus years, as you know, as well as playing. So, a bunch of us that wound up in hockey hotbed at Huntsville, Alabama you know, we're just fortunate enough to find each other and, and, uh, find some opportunities to help, help some young student athletes out.
Jason Jacobs: And I mean, we've talked about this a little bit offline, but for benefit of listeners, just talk a little bit about the total package hockey and TPH Academy founding story. Like did you, did you always, you know, did you know when you were playing, for example, that you were going to make hockey your profession?
Or did it happen by chance? How did it come about?
Nathan Bowen: Oh, that's a great question. You know, again, coming down to Huntsville, this was back in 96, [00:04:00] so a hundred years ago. And, um, no, we, we just, we, we loved Huntsville. It was a great spot. You know, we were a division two program at the time when, uh, when I first got down. And, uh, we really just it, we had a lot of really great people, great guys, great phenomenal teammates.
And head coach at the time was, uh, Doug Ross, and he gave us a chance. I. When nobody else would. And what I mean by that is being division two, we were kind of like, uh, the Panthers way back in the day. Definitely not the Panthers of today that are crushing cups, but, uh, back in, in, in the nineties when they went in that cup run and, and we were kind of like this just a bunch of different players.
We weren't quite, good enough at the time to play division one for one reason or another. And we all got a chance to come together in Huntsville and, and, uh, we had a lot of great runs and, and winning a couple of national championships, uh, the program did. And, uh, then my junior year we, uh, made the step up [00:05:00] to, uh, to division one and so made a lot of great friends, a lot of great memories, loved being down in the southeast, and we just saw these, uh, young athletes that were good, really good little hockey players.
Um, but it not being a traditional hockey market at the time, you know, a lot of them. And their parents were first generation hockey families and, and they just didn't quite know, you know, what the next step or what the path was to get to junior hockey, to get to college. And perhaps eventually pro. And, one of, uh, the players that, uh, came to our first camp the first TPH program was a two week summer hockey camp.
Uh, you know, is Nick Dowd. And he's had an incredible career. Just signed I think again with, uh, the Washington Capitals just a phenomenal young man. And great example, we had other players, uh, that went on to, uh, win division three national championships at St. Norbert. We had really special group of athletes, uh, that, that first year of the camp that we put on and we just always really had a passion for helping the kids [00:06:00] and, and, uh, helping provide some guidance to the parents with that.
Jason Jacobs: Uhhuh. And so you started with the camp and how did progress from there and over what time period? 'cause I mean, you graduated college in the late nineties, so, that was a little while ago.
Nathan Bowen: Yeah, it's, we're gonna be celebrating our 24th, uh, our 24th anniversary coming up here next month. So, yeah, it, it really, uh, the next year it went into, uh, a spring program where we, we brought kids in from all over the southeast, Nashville, Atlanta, uh, Knoxville, Birmingham, Memphis, obviously Huntsville.
And, uh, we took 'em up to a tournament in, in Toronto lost almost every game by a couple of touchdowns. And, uh, to our surprise, the parents loved it. They'd never been exposed to hockey that level, and they had a great time. So that those really were the, and now what, um, we're fortunate enough to run all the day-to-day operations for the Nashville Junior Predators.
And so that spring program was the catalyst to actually [00:07:00] start tier one hockey here in, in the southeast. So, you know, today we. Uh, manage several youth hockey associations such as, you know, the Junior Pres. And I believe we'll have about 25 to 26 teams this year. We're actually supporting figure skating as well in Nashville, which is, uh, is gonna be a lot of fun.
Um, we put on tournaments, um, mostly in Nashville. One run, one run, one up in, uh, grand Rapids one in Huntsville as as well. We take prospect teams, uh, to, you know, different events, whether it's the WSI in Philly or, uh, some, the, uh, tournament in Chicago. And we've also been super fortunate since the 91 birth year we've had.
An entry in the OHL cup. And so we take draft eligible American players up to that, uh, tournament and that team's headed up by our Chief operating Officer, Francis Anslow. We just had a record setting year, I believe we had 16 of, uh, the players on the [00:08:00] team drafted in Te Ontario Hockey League draft. So, that's a piece we manage a facility in Indy a rink.
And then, um, you know, we have the, you know, traditional camps and clinics that, that we also do. So that's, you know, that, that gets us where to, total package hockey is today. And obviously our, another brand, our, what we call our Multi-Sport Day Academy model is TPH Academy. We actually have 18 different disciplines that we support through that predominantly hockey right now.
But we just had a young lady, for instance get a full scholarship to Georgia, outta Nashville in equestrian. We've been supporting the Nashville Soccer Club, the MLS Youth Academy in Nashville for the past five school years and, and their academics as well. So, you know, obviously the Academy is really just an amazing opportunity for us to have a daily impact, on the student athletes and on their families.
And Jason, for us, like bottom line is [00:09:00] our, our core purpose, whether it's total package hockey or the TPH Academy, is we wanna be the world leader in the holistic development of student athletes. And, you know, the second part is big is, we are building and growing the next generation of impact players.
And what do we mean by that? I know you know this exactly. You talk about, you know, your background or, or any, any of us that have been in sports and then. It doesn't matter if it's as a father or mother or in our jobs or building a business or career, whatever it is. We want to make sure that the impact that we're having on these young student athletes is something that they'll carry, into that next stage of their life.
Once, uh, you know, once their athletic careers are done.
Jason Jacobs: So my next question, I'm, I'm not gonna go, I guess, where you think I would go, but I mean, you're someone that clearly. had a longstanding passion for the game. I guess one question that jumps to mind is all the different things that you guys do. Sound very operational. If you [00:10:00] build a business in an area that you love how do you retain that love when at the end of the day it becomes a grind just like any other business would be a grind if you were like, uh, selling hotdog or something.
Nathan Bowen: Again, I just, I, I think it comes, you know, we were talking right before we jumped in the pod here about just what gets you outta bed in the morning. Right. And you get excited about things and you know, obviously in you're, you're dealing with, in our line of business, you're dealing with a lot of tough challenges, a lot of tough conversations, a lot of high expectations. And we take that ex, we take that responsibility very, very seriously. And so sometimes there's some tough days, but at the end of the day, we just all of us really at TPH 'cause we could choose to do a lot of other things.
Just have such a deep passion for helping the kids. And again, it, it's, it could be helping them through a job loss at home, or a divorce or just a breakup with their boyfriend or their girlfriend. I mean, there's. You know, it, it lies so much [00:11:00] deeper too than just what happens on the ice, the, the pitch or the court.
And, uh, I think it's just that passion that, that gets us up every day and gets us excited and, and all of a sudden, like, as you just saw, the NHL draft just happen. We had seven student athletes outta TPH academies that heard their name. Well, there was a heck of a lot more that didn't hear their name right.
And keeping them, keeping those players motivated, keeping them excited to go to the rink every day, I, I think is what really what helps us get through some of the tough times. And, I just, it's never, ever felt like a job, what we do.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. I mean, I, I think that's important, especially I don't know. When you're building something you're really invested in and passionate about, it's it is hard to ever put it down. And then it's easy to look at people that do look at their work as just a job where they can punch a clock and leave it at the office and be jealous.
Um, and there are certainly some benefits that come with that, but I just can't imagine [00:12:00] getting up every day and just checking a box. It, to be honest, I wish I could, because what I'm doing now is a lot. Harder and more uncertain and less lucrative than if I just went and got a job.
But I love it and I'm, and if, and it's I love it and I wanna do it every day. I just need to find a way to do it in an enduring way. Right. And it, I don't know. To me, I get maybe that's the difference between a founder mindset and employee mindset, but I, I can't imagine doing it any other way.
Um, ano another question I have is it seems, I mean, you've got such a wide footprint and and also seems like, like many of the, if you take the academies, for example, they have their own brand, right? So it might be an academy that is branded as that academy, but it's powered by TPH Academy. So how have you balanced building the TPH brand, whether it's on the total package hockey or on the academy side, versus being in the background and supporting those brands?
And then same question in terms of who does what, right? Is there a line of [00:13:00] demarcation where you stop and where. You know where the, where the end brand takes over in terms of what they actually do and own or do, or do you own the whole thing end to end?
Nathan Bowen: Well, we, we have, um, I would say that, and then everything somewhat in between. So for us it's all about scaling impact. Jason. You know, we're, we're fine if our brand is completely invisible and if somebody just wants the help and support and, and to take advantage of, we spent two years just researching the academic piece of this, right?
Because you and I both know as parents, there's no messing around with education, right? And so we spent two years educating that before we opened up our first academy up in, in Cant Michigan, in, in the Detroit area. And so, and we just finished up our 11th school year. So we're more than happy if it's a facility owner or it's a soccer club director or any sports leader that sees the value in [00:14:00] bending academics around a passion for whatever the athletic you know, whatever the sport is.
We're here to help. If they think the brand is gonna be of benefit but it's in a secondary role, we're good with that as well. Or if they're, most athletic facilities as, you know, sit empty between 8:00 AM and 3:00 PM Monday through Friday during the school year. And that's where a lot of facility owners have, have recognized, you know, a great opportunity to generate some revenue for their facilities during pretty much empty or, or down times.
And for us, it's an opportunity to get those doors open and can you imagine if you got to go to school right, as a, a sixth grader and you knew you were gonna get to step on the ice every day or hit the court or, you know, get on the field for some work, like, holy small, I, I would've been up and out of bed and, and at the front door waiting to go every day.
So that's, that's that piece from, you know, from a branding perspective or relationship or partnership perspective. You [00:15:00] know, the, the key to all of this and being in the service being in the service business is how do you scale the quality, right? I always kind of use the analogy, I love Tim Horton's.
You know, if, you know, you go to Tim Horton's in Columbus, Ohio, or you go to, uh, Tim Horton's in Sarnia, Ontario you get the same coffee, the the same honey curler, right? And so how do you, how do you do that in the service business? And so that's really been a key for us. And about three and a half years ago, we hired a new CEO and Alan Kiso to lead us in scaling.
He had a lot of background in scaling medium to smaller sized businesses. We hired our CFO, uh, Aaron Kitchell, who does fantastic work. And I'm a little bit embarrassed. I wish I had a, hired a CFO about five or 10 years prior to that. Um. And, uh, our COO, uh, Francis Anslow, who's been with us, uh, eight years now as well.
Just a game changer. Great hockey guy. Phenomenal hockey coach. And then we most [00:16:00] recently added our Chief Academic Officer in Adam Ewing, and he's got some background in supporting IMG and some other top type of academies, um, from an academic perspective and, and a couple of decades of, of experience.
And just a phenomenal, just a great dude. To answer that piece, we, we've got a great executive team in place, process, procedures, meeting cadences, things that we have put in place to really support our folks on the ground and our folks that are supporting the student athletes on a and their families on a daily basis.
And I, I think that's kind of key, right? Is obviously it's first and foremost trying to put things in places that allow our. Our coaches and our mentors and our academic leaders to spend as much time with the kids and their families as possible. Versus worrying about all these other business process and procedures or other things that, that take up a lot of their time.
We, we've always, it doesn't matter if it's [00:17:00] hockey or if it's on the business or academic side, we want our folks spending as much time, with the kids and with their families as possible.
Jason Jacobs: So when you determine, 'cause I think, what is it, like 18 academies that you have now? What's the number?
Nathan Bowen: Yeah. We're actually gonna hit, uh, around 25 in three different countries here going into this next school year for the 25, 26 school year. Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: So when you, when you look at that expansion path, what do you look for? Is it certain things from a geography perspective? Is it certain things from a demographic perspective of, of the hockey ecosystem or other sports? I know you're getting into multi-sport now too. Is it, is it a core group that's already there that has a certain expertise?
Expertise? What is the criteria and and what does it have to look like for you to green light a new academy?
Nathan Bowen: Well, first and foremost, just, just like anything, right? It always starts from the top. So, having that connection from a philosophical standpoint of view with either [00:18:00] the owner of the facility or the management company of the facility, or if it's, uh, with an athletic or sport leader, right?
So connecting and, and obviously them having a very, deep understanding of the model and what's all entailed with it. So that's really step one. The next step is to take a look at, at the marketplace. For us, it's always it's been the easiest entry into a new market when hockey is the lead, right?
Just because we know hockey, we know, inside and out and have very good, strong relationships in the game. So that's the second piece. If there is a good, solid, deep hockey market and a, uh, demand you know, for the academy model. That's another great box for us, to tick. At the same time, we've been spending a lot of time taking a look at soccer, right?
3 million plus 18 and under players across the country, same with baseball, [00:19:00] softball, volleyball, and lacrosse. All great sports. You know, that, uh, have great student athlete opportunities at the collegiate level for the kids. And again, parents, um, love to see if, if they have the option, again, it doesn't matter if it's division 1, 2, 3, or, or club.
I think a lot of parents see a lot of value in their, you know, their sons and daughters participating at some level of athletics. Uh, when they decide to make that jump into college.
Jason Jacobs: And certainly the landscape now looks quite different than the landscape. When we were coming up in the game I mean it was a lot more seasonal back then. There was a lot more time to just be a kid. I don't know if academies even existed. I certainly had never heard of them. Back then, and then obviously the path to make it in the game is different.
And I mean, arguably it's a lot harder than it was when when we were coming up. I [00:20:00] guess two questions there. One is just taking, like putting total package hockey and TPH Academy aside. What is your assessment of the state of the game and, and then bringing that back around you know, where, where does your f footprint of activities fit into all of that?
You know, what, what's its role in the path for kids and families?
Nathan Bowen: Yeah. That's a another really great question. So for me, it, it was interesting and I actually struggled with this a little bit as a father. My daughter's a sampler meaning, she, uh, played in the band she played the sax in the band. She played basketball, she played softball and then got involved in track and field as well.
And she just loved going from activity to activity to activity, which I really struggled with. 'cause all I ever wanted to do was, was be a hockey player. Right. And it was really challenging sometimes, you know, 'cause uh, she was a really good you strong softball player, and I thought she [00:21:00] could play a collegiate at some level, at, at some point if she decided to pick, to pick that as her sport.
But she never picked a sport, uh, to her credit. And, um, I was able to keep, I think my mouth shut for as long as, you know, as, as long as possible. But I. I think letting your kids follow their passion, what they're most interested in is key. And it can be really tough because you know, again, I'll just talk specifically to to hockey.
Our parents, I think in youth hockey, they see and feel this pull into having to have this crazy travel schedule right throughout the course of a winter and then go right into the spring and when the kids get older and they start to hit the USA hockey tryouts and everything else, when you actually look at the intensity of the schedule, it's actually in the spring when if you have, if you're on a team that goes all the way to nationals and then you go right into USA hockey tryouts and, and all these other things, and perhaps, you know, you hit Junior and you got USHL camps, north American League camps, OHL [00:22:00] camps it's, you know, it can be a pretty, pretty big grind.
So I think, yeah, just listening to your, to your son or daughter and if they enjoy playing soccer or baseball or softball, and I know it's easy to say, like, everybody gets on on a podcast and say, yeah, play multiple sports and it's easy. But when you see all their friends playing spring hockey, that that's something that's extremely, difficult to do.
But I, I think listening to your kids, I've seen a lot more kids get burnt out from their parents pushing them and or not recognizing that maybe they needed a summer or a spring off versus thinking they're stuck on the hamster wheel of, of having to keep going. We talk to our parents a lot about athletic training right in the spring and the summer that that's far more important.
You pick up the gear and, and you know, you go to that, uh, summer tournament on a July 4th weekend that we're coming up on and, and. Instead of, you could be taking those [00:23:00] that same time and spending it in the gym, working on your speed or your strength or, or conditioning in instead.
So I think it's, I think it's really tough. I know it's easy to get on on something like this and just talk about it, but had a really awesome conversation. Uh, the other day about Bob Man with Bob Mancini with USA Hockey and his son Victor is, is a prime example. Jason, uh, he just, just won an American Hockey League championship with Abbotsford.
He had the most ice time on his team, played 30 plus games in the National Hockey League this year. Like, Bob, it's a really interesting path and, and, um, you know, he didn't make the Helenka team, he didn't play on the world junior team. Like he didn't, he didn't hit a lot of these things that a lot of parents think, well, I gotta do all of this to, to be on that path.
And he's just. Frankly, he's like a, I think a, a poster kid for just listening, letting them play other sports and letting the kids develop on their own timeline. Because [00:24:00] as you and I both know too, so much is tied to genetics and athleticism and some things that are completely, you know, out of our control.
Jason Jacobs: It is something I wanna push on though, because it's funny, the some of these elite player development people that I've been talking to, they seem so confident in their work that they're like, I could turn, like, gimme any ball of clay and I will, I will make it a champion.
Right. Um, and I I actually wonder about the role of nature and, and nurture. Obviously it has a big role, right? But how, how much can you counter that with, with work ethic and smarts, and also how much of that work ethic and smarts is either innate to you or can be taught.
Right? I mean, and I'm, I mean, I'm asking that about hockey, but like I have just as many questions about that just as a dad, you know, trying to set my kids up for success in life.
Nathan Bowen: Yeah. The number one word I love that we use in TPH probably every day is compete. [00:25:00] And I think the sooner we can put our kids in situations where they have to compete for things, and it could even be in the classroom, right? It can be in robotics, it, it doesn't matter what it is, but provoking that a level of compete in our kids is, to me is, is invaluable.
And by far, one of the most important skills or character traits, right? That, that we can ever hope for in, in our kids. And so that's something we, we talk about at the academy on a daily basis. And same with, um, with on the hockey side. But I think, when when we're trying to, when we're trying to figure out how to maximize what God has given us, right?
That's where a lot of folks think, yeah, I can change this and that, and I'm just. I think you can teach hockey sense. I think that's something that's, you know, uh, been argued time and time again. But I, I do believe there's ways to teach hockey sense and kids can [00:26:00] learn and develop that. I believe that is a skill.
But I think at some point in time it's, you know, I, I can't just jump in a pool today and, and be a great swimmer, i, I think getting reps and maximizing what our parents have given us from a genetic standpoint. We all have a ceiling, and it's just a matter of what kind of training and then the time and the reps.
But to me that comes back to the love and passion. You have to have a finger on the pulse of that, because doesn't matter if they are the greatest athlete in the world, if they don't, if they're not motivated right. To put in the time and the work in, in that particular sport you know, it's just it's not gonna matter unless they're excited to do
Jason Jacobs: so I wanna come back to your comment about your daughter being a sampler when it comes to the academy model. I would imagine, and correct me if I'm wrong, that you probably get a fair bit of calls from parents who say, Hey you know, it's great that I that, you know, we're honored that we have the potential to, you know, send our child to one of your academies.
We're really wrestling [00:27:00] with whether it's the right fit. How do you know if it's the right fit? And if you're a sampler by nature, does that mean by definition it is not the right fit?
Nathan Bowen: Well, I think especially with most traditional schools I think our setup even more so today provides opportunities for kids to not. That they may even have that little bit of sampler in them. And I'll just talk to our Nashville campus, for instance, and we have some phenomenal campuses all across the country, but our classroom space is actually in a fitness club.
We had a young man that plays, uh, water polo. Guess what? Everybody else in the academy learned how to play, right? Water polo. So we have kids, they, they can swim once a week if they want. During what we would call, what you and I used to have is recess, which a lot of schools don't even have recess anymore, right?
Our kids are out playing soccer or flag football or even just throwing a [00:28:00] football around on the turf. So our, our, our academy model actually lends itself to the kids developing more, I think more athleticism because we have these other elements and other sports that are available to them that they can do during their recess time or, or during.
Some of their downtime and we even have you know, a couple of student athletes that are still, perhaps they're playing hockey and baseball and, and they're able to actually get the sports specific training in for both sports. Whereas perhaps, you know, that might be more of a challenge if, if they were in, a, a traditional setting.
Jason Jacobs: And if you look across the footprint of, I think you said it's gonna be, 25 academies coming into next year you, I mean, you mentioned the Tim Horton's analogy. Is it philosophically when it comes to development, is it consistent from location to location, or does each one have the the, the independence to put their own stamp on it?
Nathan Bowen: Yeah, I, I think that's really important. Um, [00:29:00] obviously we have structure practice plans, videos, drills, all those things are there. I. For our leaders to use as they best see fit, because they're the ones just like us as parents, we know what's what the push and pulls are gonna be with our kids, right?
Versus someone that doesn't know them as, as well as we do. So, we definitely leave that flexibility to our, our local leaders and, and think that's very important. Um, again maybe, uh, a young lady didn't get in that night, the night before because she had a travel tournament and didn't get back on a Sunday until one o'clock in the morning.
Well, she walks in the door on a Monday maybe a little later start, but, uh, our leader recognizes that today is not the day to be doing a bunch of conditioning, right? So you gotta leave that kind of flexibility up so that, um, our leadership on the ground that, that know these, know these student athletes very well and are with them 5, 4, 5 days out of the [00:30:00] week to use their best judgment as well, from a, from a development standpoint. When some of the days are that hey really push and, and really dig in and maybe add some work and then some other days where maybe it's more of an active rest day because they need to, you know, recover and making sure they they get home at a decent time and get a good night's sleep is the best thing for them on that particular day.
Jason Jacobs: If I were a parent who was debating going the academy route versus going prep, for example, what are the biggest differences between you know, going to one of these T-P-H-T-P-H Academy facilities or going the prep school route?
Nathan Bowen: Are you talking, uh, just specific to hockey or just or any sport.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, I, I think specific to kind of the whole picture, um, and it could be hockey, it could be another sport. You mentioned that academics is paramount and that you've put a lot of time and attention into it. So [00:31:00] should we think of the academics as the same across an academy versus looking at a prep school or is it different?
And if it's different, how is it different? And then same thing with the hockey, or to be honest, anything else that you think is a notable difference that people should be aware of and either really resonate with and gravitate towards or, or self-select out?
Nathan Bowen: Yeah, I, listen, I don't think you can ever really argue typically. I don't think you can ever argue, and I'll, I'll say north, like northeast prep schools, right? Like in, in your neck of the woods. I don't think you can typically ever argue academics and, and lifestyle like, or, or or campus life actually is a better way to put it.
I, you know, you have phenomenal campuses. The education is second to none. I think what our model provides, Jason that's super key, is a balance. You know, it, it that, that, that kind of used to be the path back in the day, right? To Ivy, right. Or to a SAC school that, that prep path.
Whereas [00:32:00] I think what our model does is you don't have to sacrifice one or the other. I think it provides a balance, meaning you can work on your athletic and personal development as much as you do on your academics. And one or the other isn't going to cost you that academic opportunity, quite frankly.
And, and you experienced this, you, you got to where you, you, you got that opportunity in hockey 'cause you're a good hockey player. So in a lot of instances, obviously what we've seen over the past 20 plus years is when these student athletes maximize their athletic development, that's actually what unlocks the academic opportunity that they probably wouldn't or maybe wouldn't have got if they didn't have that differentiating factor.
So I'll even use my daughter, uh, as a prime example. She, uh. We'll be going into her sophomore year at Case Western and we [00:33:00] saw 30 different campuses across the country and we're trying to figure out she was interested in, in going to all these different schools and had some really great scholarship opportunity and offers.
Well, she got invited to go to Case Western as an official visit with the track team. So my wife and I, we actually let her go up on her own and just do the visit on her own. And so guess the one school, right? We don't go and visit the campus. She decides she wants to go, go to school at which, which was
Jason Jacobs: that's that. That's probably just because she felt like that was the one where she felt like it was her decision.
Nathan Bowen: yeah, probably, yeah. Mom and dad weren't there asking questions, right? She got, uh, she ran her own show, but, um, yeah, I mean, you know, being from a rural town in, in Alabama and, and her wanting to get into engineering, but also throwing a. Uh, the javelin a good distance. Uh, we believe, you know, opened up that door and I'm almost embarrassed to say I hadn't heard of case until you know, our daughter was interested in it.
And, um, she's, she loves it, is having a, [00:34:00] you know, a phenomenal time. But that being involved in throwing javelin is what unlocked and opened her eyes up to an incredible, incredible school. So that's where, just to kind of close the loop on that that's something we stress. 'cause we have student athletes going into the Ivys, into nescac, getting into Michigan, like some of the top academic institutions in the country.
And they're not just getting in as athletes as well. So our academics are preparing them and helping them gain admission to, into, top institutions in the country.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, so last question on the topic. You mentioned that genetics has a big role to play, so, size and compete and things like that. Um, how do you balance, so let's say the kid is super passionate about the game. How do you balance as a parent uh, giving the kid every opportunity to pursue their dream?
With realism if they don't have the genetics or they don't [00:35:00] have the level of compete, or they don't have the skill or they don't have the work ethic, right? Where you aren't putting too much pressure on athletics to do a job that, that you know, that that, that your kids' athletics isn't realistically going to be able to do.
Nathan Bowen: Yeah. Again, I, I think that's just part of being a parent and, and making sure that we're listening to what they want, not what we want, and just recognizing that. And I think obviously again, like the NHL drafts, a prime example, we're celebrating, I. All the players that have worked their butts off, like what they've accomplished is puts them in such an incredibly elite category, right?
Just being selected, being drafted, and we celebrate our division one commits, right? I, I don't think we spend enough time celebrating our division two, our division three and our club hockey you know, student athletes. And I'll give you a great example. Um, the tier one AAA program that down here in the southeast, a bunch of our, our players years ago really [00:36:00] revived the Georgia University of Georgia Club Hockey program.
'Cause as you know, the most of the kids, you know, the, the students are, are running those teams and, and now Geor, like the program is just popping. Hopefully one day, we'll, we'll see them make the jump to, to, uh, division one. So I, I think, I think number one, Jason is let's celebrate just, let's celebrate our kids moving on to college and playing at any level, right? Because it's gonna be a healthier lifestyle. They're gonna stay more engaged, they're gonna have to manage their time. A lot better than just someone, a student that's just going just going to school for just academics.
So I, I really think recognizing and being realistic with your son or daughter's aspirations and their commitment levels but again, I think if there's ways to provoke that compete because that, that is one thing that, taking that into college and if they don't play any sports, that, that level of compete hopefully helps them push themselves from an [00:37:00] academic perspective.
Jason Jacobs: So it, it sounds like I, I can be on board with all of that. It sounds like maybe the unhealthy piece is when parents it isn't even the going into debt to. Make it a reality if you believe that it's gonna set your kid best up for long-term happiness and success in life, and give them experiences and friendships and help them reach their fullest form in the sport they love, and it's what they wanna do.
Okay, great. I think the unhealthy part is like, Hey, I'm doing this as an investment to, to drive towards that scholarship. And it, 'cause I, yeah, I think that, I think that's where things c can just get unhealthy because then, you know, the kid isn't the kid anymore. The kid is, is a, is a business decision.
Nathan Bowen: Absolutely. And actually I just was talking to a good friend of mine that's an actor two weeks ago, and I'll never forget him telling me that he would have to go from audition to audition and literally you go to one audition and get told how terrible you are. And how horrible you are. And you have to regroup, pick yourself up, walk around the corner and go [00:38:00] to the next one.
And give it your all to, you know, to be able to try to earn that job so that you didn't have to keep bartending. And I think that's a prime example. And he's like Bo, you know, like sports, like that's what I got taught, through playing football. He was, he played, you know, university football.
You know, that's what sports teaches us and that's where the parents, we have to take a look and realize like all of these things and it hurts us so bad, right? When our kids hurt, when they get cut from a team or the coach doesn't play them, or a kid on the other team makes fun of them or whatever the thing is, right?
It kills us. It hurts us to our core as a parent when we see that happen to our kids. But Jason, I think this is one of the best, I think this is one of the best things that my parents did for me was they never. Ever talk to the coaches. Even at a young age, at 10, 11, 12 years old, I got told, don't come home and complain.
You go, you got a problem, you go talk to [00:39:00] your coach about it. And I, I think that's the best piece of advice, um, that I could give parents. I think it's important for you know, our kids to, to learn that, right? Because I'm pretty sure we're not gonna be able to call their bosses up one day and be like, why is my daughter not gotten a raise yet?
And so I think those are the skills, those are the kind of experiences as much as they tear our heart out sometimes as parents, if we can maintain that discipline to help coach our kids and give them that kind of advice, again that's how we're gonna build leaders and, and strong, confident, independent young men and young women.
Jason Jacobs: And it, I mean, it sounds like you, even if you just look at like how far people make it in the sports, some of the stats we were talking about earlier that, T Pediatric Academy is producing some really promising players that are going far in the sport. One of the things I've been looking at is the best development paths and, and obviously everyone's [00:40:00] path.
It's different, but you know, growing up, for example, you might've done a couple practices a week and then it was a lot of free play. It was a lot of street hockey, for example. It was a lot of pond hockey, for example. And largely it's just harder to come by these days. And then you look at the specialization and the spring and summer hockey and then it's like, well every kid is different, but it's like, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
And how do you know? And then you look at like, well why is it 80% games and 20% skills? It should be 20% skills and 80% games. I mean, it should be 80% skills in 20% games, right? And then it's like, well, it depends what you mean by skills. Because if it's just, standing and shooting and getting better and better forms standing and shooting, like that's not a game situation.
So actually when you put that kid in the game, they might have a really hard shot with it's never gonna get off. Right? Uh, or when it gets off, they're not gonna know how to shoot off balance or things like that. And then it's like, well, you gotta look at video and you gotta isolate. And hockey IQ can be tough.
And so it's confusing for me to try to sort through like, you know, the, the latest on what is the best development path, and I understand it's kid specific, but I'd [00:41:00] love to get your take either with your Nathan hat on or with your TPH Academy hat on of just how you think about those trade offs and the right development paths, the wrong development paths, and, and how to personalize those development paths for each kid and family.
Nathan Bowen: So I don't really believe there's a lot of right or wrong. I believe that we as parents make the best decisions for our kids that we like think at that time. And do sometimes, do our kids maybe need a little encouragement or, or kick in the butt to get out and maybe put some work in or do, you know, do some things.
Absolutely. And I'll talk to my son as an example. Um, he'll be 15 here in a couple months and you know, he's not into sports, and, and that's okay. We have a lot of fun doing a lot of other things. And, and, I thank God 'cause he's opened my eyes to so many other different things that I probably never would've experienced if he wasn't interested in and wanted to get involved [00:42:00] with.
And
Jason Jacobs: What's one cool one? What's one? I don't wanna derail you, but what's one cool one?
Nathan Bowen: He loves to travel and see different places and loves loves planes. And so, I, I travel obviously a lot with work, so sometimes the last thing I wanna do is, add another trip or something like that. But, um, he, he likes going and checking out, you know, new places and, uh, I.
So that's, that, that's been great because I, I wouldn't have been as, uh, or we turned a work trip right into, uh, sightseeing in New York or something like that, which is cool. We love Boston too, by the way. Absolutely. Love Boston,
Jason Jacobs: probably come and do all the things that I've lived here my whole life and I've never
Nathan Bowen: Exactly. Yeah,
Jason Jacobs: boat and the Freedom Trail and
Nathan Bowen: yeah. But,
Jason Jacobs: I'm sure the same would be true for me if I came to Alabama.
Nathan Bowen: yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah, you go right to the Space and Rocket Center
Jason Jacobs: But anyways, back to, um, how there's no, there's not a lot of rights and wrongs.
Nathan Bowen: yeah. And, and so, like for him not being involved in, in sports, we all know again, how important being physically active is right. For our health. So [00:43:00] just this, I, right after school, I'd pick him up from school and we'd go straight to Planet Fitness and, you know, he kind of, complained maybe a couple times just to start, but I he, afterwards one I figured out he was always hungry, so I needed to make sure he had a little snack, you know, going into the gym. But now it's just become like routine for us and, and it's something we bond over and, and it, it's been an incredible experience and a lot of fun.
And it, thankfully too, I needed to get my butt back in the gym, right? So he's, he's also forced me to, to get back roll. And so I, I think again, what, find figuring out, uh, how to help motivate them to get into something else or maybe to try, you know, some other things. But again, I, I think just listening to them and understanding what motivates them.
And for our kids, Jason, we hear this all the time at our academy, is they love it. They can't wait to go to school. We have kids that struggled with BS and [00:44:00] Cs that are. Getting straight A's, or As and B's and, and it's because they needed maybe a little bit more attention, they maybe needed a different environment.
We're gonna continue to see the whole micro school model, I think explode across the country. And that, that is awesome to hear that, right? That, that we hear kids are, are, are just pumped to come to the academy because they're gonna get to do something that they love to do and oh, I gotta do these other things.
And by the way, that's where the accountability comes in because if they fall behind at all from a schoolwork perspective, they're not allowed to train. The training, the ice, the floor, the turf time gets taken away until they bring you know, their pacing or their grades to, an acceptable level.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, and, and it's, it sounds like you've got an inclusive environment and that you focus on the love, but then within that there's a kind of a subset where you've got these prospect teams and [00:45:00] things like that, that are focused on the more elite players. Are there times where you're taking a kid with talent and you're trying to get 'em to work harder?
And are there times where you're taking a kid that works all the time and it's like, hey, you've gotta dial it back because I think you're gonna burn yourself out. Or, or do you really let the kid just set the pace?
Nathan Bowen: Both like, and again, 'cause we, all of us, you know, even you and I, right? Every once in a while we need a little kick in the butt, right? Or, or some ex extra motivation. You know, I've, I've got my TPH St. Louis hat on today, and I think your question, I. Actually fits in really well with them.
They take just as much pride. And they just had a young man go in the second round of, of the NHL draft that played at Michigan State last year. And um, but they take as much pride of kids that are a single A level that train and work their butt off and they get cut and then all of a sudden they make the AA team and the same thing of AA player that get cut and then finally make AA team, right?
Like it's just [00:46:00] celebrated. But what the key there is what's celebrated is the work ethic, the passion and the commitment, right? Because those players just keep trying show up, put the work in every day at the academy and, and uh, obviously it's awesome when, when they get rewarded with what they're trying to work towards.
Jason Jacobs: And then what about the role of technology? I'm early in, you know, I come from a tech, I'm not a technologist, but I've. Built technology companies my whole career. And and now I am looking to come in and figure out how to apply that in the sport. And my sense is that technology is infiltrating and you've got the huddles and in stats and live barns and pixel lots and and sport logics.
And 49 ing is one that I just heard about recently. And there's more popping up every day and they're starting to infiltrate and play a bigger role. I think hockey might not be as far [00:47:00] along, and again, this is just an initial impression, I might be wrong as some other sports, like a golf, for example.
And, and some of that might be because it's just harder, for example, to have a, you know, have the computer. Analyze hockey IQ where there's so much art and taste that goes into it than it is to analyze a golf swing where you're standing in the same exact place and like shooting the same exact way.
Right. And then some of it might also be like, maybe, you know, maybe the hockey community is a little more resistant to tech and for whatever reason. What are you seeing in terms of the sport overall? And then, and then what is your perspective with your TTPH Academy hat on?
Nathan Bowen: So I'll give you an, I'm gonna give you an athletic answer to that question and then also an, an academic answer and let, I'll give you the academic first. I am so thankful Fred Tech companies because utilizing technology is, now, this goes [00:48:00] back to my comment earlier, that kids don't have to choose.
I don't have to go to that prep school and get that. Crazy education because I want to go to an ivy school, right? I can do both in today's world, right? And the fact that you can bend the player, the student athlete's passion, right? If it's a sport, maybe it's playing a musical instrument, it's acting whatever it is.
But you can bend that passion you can bend the academics around that passion. Sorry, versus the traditional schooling system. And what you and I grew up in, we had to be in school from 8:00 AM to 4:00 PM every day. And we had to either go to lessons, maybe in the morning before that or, or get a workout in before that go to school and then do our club teamwork after that.
And that has now completely changed. So because of technology, you know, we know that training, I. Within two and a half hours of waking up when our body temperature is at its peak is how we can try [00:49:00] to maximize our athletic development. And again, if we maximize our athletic, our God-given athletic abilities, that's gonna, you know, help hopefully open up a door academically.
So from an EdTech perspective, super grateful. The whole AI thing with EdTech is another conversation, but are kids learning how to effectively use, I'm, I'm in my daughter's ear, you know, biomedical engineering, right? I'm in her ear. Ai, did you use it today? Like, did you just mess around with it? Because those of us that learn how to utilize it right and develop it as a skill or, will benefit down the road.
So that's, that I think is a key piece because I, you take a look at some of the top academies, you know, in the world, maximizing both the athletic training time and not sacrificing the academic side is critical. And thanks to. Technology our student athletes have the ability to max both on the athletic side.
I think we're in some incredibly [00:50:00] interesting times. I've always had a very deep admiration for soccer. I think soccer is, is, and football I think soccer and football are so far ahead from a technology and data utilization standpoint. You look at how hard it is, um, for soccer coaches, right?
They have to get these certain levels of certification, right, to coach pro, to, to coach youth. So, but I think the way that those sports have adopted and embraced technology is something to behold. And I think hockey, I think a lot of hockey folks, um, it takes a little bit more time, to, to adapt tech and to adapt change obviously.
Teams at the national hockey level and some of the other professional and collegiate levels that have a staff or have the resources to invest and pay attention to the inputs and, and how the data is, is being used. You know, kind of differs across the board. But, [00:51:00] uh, you know, I, I think there's some companies and there's some technologies that are out there that are hopefully gonna help, change that.
You know, a good friend of mine, Dr. McGregor has been working with the US National Development Team Program, works with NHL teams, big 10 programs. He's got a skate sensor right now that he's putting on teams, and it's, it's incredible the data that is coming, um, off of that skate sensor,
Jason Jacobs: did he make it or is it a, is it a company that he's working with?
Nathan Bowen: Uh, I think it, perhaps it's a little bit of, little bit of both. He'd be, uh, definitely you would, you would enjoy talking with him and I'd recommend you, you have him on your show here. But, um, he's, uh, 'cause he's gone through it too with his own son and daughter as well. So he's got it from a perspective of a, of a professional and, and, um, and what he does every day.
But, uh, analyzing again, it, it's, taking that data and then figuring out how we use tech, how we use algorithms, everything else to spit [00:52:00] out what we can then use so that for those of us, like myself, how do I comprehend, the analytics that are coming off doc's, uh, skate sensor, and how can I best train and develop and plan my entire season to maximize each athlete's performance?
Then again, ultimately, obviously at, at the levels he's dealing with, they have to win.
Jason Jacobs: Do you have areas, if you look across the kind of the purview of player development, and I mean, I'll ask this for hockey, but it could be for any sport, but it, I mean, hockey's what seems like what both of us think about the most. But where you think technology could play a bigger role than it's playing today. Like where's the fruit, the ripest.
Nathan Bowen: Oh you know, at the highest level, I think there's a little bit of a correction going. I think, um, you know, I, I think there was a period of time there, there was, uh, may, perhaps an overemphasis of, [00:53:00] um, of data use. I, I think, I think having data is critical. I think it's super important. I think it's helpful.
But in the sport of hockey, until you figure out how to measure this right here, right? The heart and the level of grit, which I don't think we're anywhere close to measuring that. I, I think that's, that's where you still have a gut element. So I think utilizing the data, um, is extremely helpful, especially whether it's, um, injury prevention right?
Or, or workload management. I think all of those things are positives and very helpful. But I think, I think it's, with hockey, I think it's just tough. It's such a unique sport with the level of aggression. There's never been two hockey games ever played the same. Right. And it's, uh, I, I think, I think it's one of those sports that will always you, you'll, you have to maintain that balance I guess between science data and just understanding and knowing [00:54:00] the men or women that you're working with.
Jason Jacobs: How much do your academies lean on video and in, in, in what way? And if this is getting too much into the weeds we don't need to go here.
Nathan Bowen: No, I love it. Jason, that's, um, Brandon Rado, the head coach of Michigan, who is by far one of the most brilliant minds in the game today. And what he's achieved in such a short period of time in Michigan is just, just speaks to who he is. And his ability to though connect on a personal level with the athlete is his special gift.
A lot of coaches know the X's and O's, right? But that ability to connect with your players is, is what's ultimately gonna help, help you help you win. So I think he's, he's a prime example of utilizing data, understanding the kind of team you have. Using both of those to, maximize wins and performance.
So what NAR did [00:55:00] is implemented video that we showed video every day before the kids stepped on the ice. And that's something we do across all of our academies. So, I think the utilization of video is, is critical.
I think a lot of our coaches spend way too much time on it, meaning the kids aren't gonna sit there for a half hour video session. I think keeping it very short, direct, and to the point. But I think video is one of, by far the most powerful tools. Doesn't matter the sport that we can be utilizing to coach and mentor our student athletes.
So it's something that we typically do on a daily basis at TPH, A lot of times we'll look at a skill or certain drill that we want to do on the ice, and then we'll actually show game footage of that skill being successful in the high stress and pressure of a game so that the kids know we're not just going around cones to go around cones.
We're not just firing pucks around the fire pucks round. We're gonna go on the ice. We're gonna work on [00:56:00] these skills and do these things because it can provoke this kind of success in a game.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, it's almost like, like one of the things I'm thinking about is a lot of the, watching the film, picking out things for each player that they need to work on, and then finding examples of others who. Are doing that specific thing well and then finding drills for that player to work on to reinforce and have it ultimately retained to make those changes.
Like all of that seems so manual and I'm just wondering if technology can play a role across each of those aspects. Um, not to take over 'cause it's still what's in the coach's head, but to save them the time of like hunting. Hunting for this, hunting for that, hunting for this, hunting for that. It's like they know what they're looking for, but it's like I hate when my, my, my daughter sometimes, or my, either of my kids they'll be like, Hey, can you find that really funny video clip from when I was four years old and, and uh, you know, I did X, Y and ZI wore this thing for Halloween.
And, uh, and it's [00:57:00] well, I can find it. I would really like to find it, but it's gonna take me two hours and I don't have two hours to go sort through tens of thousands of photos or, or videos on my phone and try to find that, right. It's like, but if you could push a button and just have it right. And so that's kind of how I'm thinking about tech.
It's not to replace the coach, it's to it's to make it more efficient. And from what I can gather there's some platforms that are doing that at the team and coach level, but when it comes to a lot of the individualized player development that's happening, right, it's still highly manual, especially when it comes to the finding clips to address that thing that you specifically need to work on, and then giving you stuff that's relevant.
To do it right. So I dunno, there's no real question in there other than just like, what do you think?
Nathan Bowen: I just, I've got two comments as you mentioned. You know, there's, there's some really great products out there, uh, some different options. Huddle, Insta Huddle's, been involved in football right. Uh, for, you know, forever. TPE is another great tool. I know that's what a lot of our teams use and they actually have player shifts are all broken [00:58:00] down as, as part of that.
So, if your son played 12 minutes and 32 seconds in the game, he can actually just pop in there or you can, or his coach could sit him down and just go through that 12 minutes of just his shifts and spend time looking at just his playing time. During the course of, of that game.
So I think there are some really great, powerful tools. The cameras are utilizing AI more and more and capturing a lot more than when you and I played in some dark lit, rink and in, in the middle of nowhere. But the second thing, Jason, I was gonna share with you is, and this happens all the time now is the kids will come to the academy the next day and they are so jacked because, you know that, that shot or the move that the coach has been working on with them for the last two months, they just scored a goal and executed on that last night at their game.
And they've got that clip, that, uh, that they picked up. And so that's, again, it goes back to the power though of video and the kids realizing that, hey, you know, I [00:59:00] look, learn, execute, and then carry that into a game with them is again incredibly powerful.
Jason Jacobs: I mean, la last question. I know we're, we're coming up on time, but it's just a fun one. The, I mean, you've seen many thousands of players over the years, if not many, more than that. And then same thing with, with coaches. You've seen the good ones, the bad ones, everything in between. When you think from a player standpoint, you say, oh, that kid is special.
Like what? What does that kid look like? And then same question when it comes to a coach.
Nathan Bowen: You know, from a player standpoint what that looks like comes in all different shapes, sizes, right? Everything else. I, I think that, especially in hockey, Jason, I think we, we make two mistakes. I think we give the really good players far too much credit when they're young and we discount all the rest of the players far too young.
You know, I, I think that [01:00:00] understanding.
Jason Jacobs: I thought that was just here in New England. That's everywhere.
Nathan Bowen: that's, that's everywhere. But again, the one characteristic that I see with the kids, and again, it's not, it's not always the most talented, right? The number one characteristic I see in those kids is compete and commitment and their willingness to put time and effort into their sport or their craft when the vast majority of their peers are not willing to do it.
And I think though, that goes back to like, and it's not work for them. They go, they enjoy going to the shooting, the off ice shooting cages and just ripping pucks, or they love going to the, the skating treadmill. Or they, you know, they're the one that's on the ice 10 minutes early because they know the ZA gets off and they know they can just go out and just rip pucks around for an extra 10 minutes.
And. I think those are probably the top two or three traits [01:01:00] that we see. It doesn't matter what sport, but those special players. And actually, let me add one more. And you know, again, I I know I'm a parent, but my daughters I think always had this, and that's the coachability aspect, but also not afraid to ask questions.
You and I were brought up in an era of like, you do what you're told, there's no asking questions. Like you, you go run through the end of the wall and that's what you do, right?
Jason Jacobs: I try that line with my kids when they ask why, but doesn't, it doesn't go so well.
Nathan Bowen: you and I better have the answer.
Jason Jacobs: you don't, you don't need to know
Nathan Bowen: Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: Just do it. Yeah. It
Nathan Bowen: It's actually, 'cause I don't know why. But I, I think that's a big piece of it that, that the kids that excel, again, that, that make it to any level uh, beyond just youth. They have bright eyes and, and they have their ears open and they want to learn.
And they're typically strong students, you know, as well. From a coaching perspective I've [01:02:00] been super fortunate. Like I, I played for, um, three coaches in a row that I, I don't think I would've ever made junior hockey and I would've never made college hockey if I hadn't have played. And all three of them were incredibly competitive, played for Mark Hunter, who, you know, runs and is the owner of the London Knights Scott Muskett, who runs and is an owner of the Shreveport Mud bugs and had a very successful career in pro hockey as well.
And, uh, and Brad Drewry who I played for in, in starting to played for Junior Sea. And you know, when you take a look, I think at successful coaches, number one, they have that compete. Number two like I was talking about with Brandon Rado, I. They have that special gift of connecting with the person first.
All the X's and o's, everything else doesn't matter when you watch Paul Maurice, right? And you watch the players and how he talks about the players and how the players talk about him. Like it's not a mistake that they've won back to back Stanley cups. So I [01:03:00] think number one compete, number two, the ability the coach has to connect with his players as people, uh, first, and I would say the third part is their ability to communicate.
And that's just where you look at like a Nick Saban, right? In Alabama I'm, I've always been amazed at like, how do you manage 80 plus players? But then the, I don't know how many people are involved, right? In managing that, that football program. But all of those people that all impact that one team. So that coach's ability to communicate with his assistant coaches, his team managers the media you know what, whatever it is.
I, I, I think those three characteristics are, are what you see to be a very common thread with the elite of the elite from a coaching perspective, active
Jason Jacobs: Uh, great answer. I know I said last question. This is the real last question. And it's more of a, a [01:04:00] personal one, but just, I mean, you brought in a CEO, um, in the last few years. Neither of us is getting any younger. We're around the same age, but still a lot of good years left, knock on wood. You know, how are you balancing uh, you know, professional and. Other stuff and also within that professional bucket. You know, what, what kinds of things are most interesting for you today in terms of where you are and, and where you wanna be spending your time?
Nathan Bowen: well. I don't wanna get too deep down
Jason Jacobs: All loaded questions. Yeah.
Nathan Bowen: No, I listen I listen. I just, I don't believe in balance, like, it, I have a lot of respect for people that have great work life, family balance. But if you ask again, if you ask any, you've lived this yourself, right? Personally I just don't believe in balance.
Like, if you wanna do something and you want to be exceptional at it, like you have to put ridiculous amounts of time into it and, and you have to put a, the amount of [01:05:00] time and you end up sacrificing time with family and you end up sacrificing time with friends and you don't get to golf anymore and you don't do these other things.
But obviously like, do all of us want and wanna spend more time with our family and our kids? A hundred percent. But all the rest of that stuff, I just, I, I just believe is noise. And, and I think if, if, if you're gonna do something and you wanna do it at the highest level or perform at the most elite level, it's, there's no balance.
You have to be very focused and put the time and effort into whatever it is that you're, that you're trying to achieve. And for us at TPH, Jason, it's real simple. We want to scale our impact. In my backpack, I walk around with I've got a letter from a, a teammate or a, a kid. I coached Tam t an awesome young man, actually.
He's moving over to Europe, uh, taking his whole family over with his job, extremely successful. Uh, played hockey at Cornell, played in the USHL, but he wrote me a letter right [01:06:00] before he got married. And one of the things was, he's like, I understand the method to the madness now because we made the kids wear suits and.
You know, like we, again, we wanted them to learn these skills that we knew were gonna extend far, far beyond you know, far beyond hockey. So, getting those kind of affirmations about what we're doing and the fact that what we're scaling and we have young men and women that are, are seals, doctors, attorneys, financial advisors, entrepreneurs, the whole bit.
And, that's what gets me out of bed every day and gets me jacked, is how can we help that next young man or young lady wake up every day so pumped to get to the academy and learn these lessons, to learn about competing, to learn about being a good teammate within the classroom with other people.
And I might not like them. I might not even get along with them, but I gotta figure out a way to get along with them each day, you know, because we know those are the things that are gonna carry them. And hopefully they then turn around. And what's kind of cool is now [01:07:00] we've got alumni. That are full time within TPH as well.
And it is so cool, Jason, because they know what the expectations are. They know what the culture is at TPH and man, we, we've had some, some alumni come in and, and start their careers off with us. So that's what I love to wake up every day and, and think about. Obviously I love spending time with, with my kids and I wanna see my daughter throwing javelin as much as possible up at Case Western and, and do all those things.
But I want to figure out how we continue to scale this model so that we can help families and help young student athletes maximize their potential, whatever that potential may be.
Jason Jacobs: Well, you've got me ready to run through some walls. Well, Nathan, this is such an awesome and, and also just kind of multifaceted discussion. We covered so much. Is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did? Or, or any parting words beyond that? Great. Those great parting words that you just gave.
Nathan Bowen: I, I'd love to ask [01:08:00] you, how can we help, how can TPH help you with what you're doing or, and anybody that ends up listening to this too, like, I'd love it for them to hear I'd, I'd love to hear more what, what we can do to help you with what you're trying to achieve. I.
Jason Jacobs: Thanks for asking. Right now I'm so, I'm so impatient to build, but like I also realize what a long road it is once you anchor. And it actually took me a few months to even come around to anchor in sports. And then within that, it took me a few more, you know, it took me a while to then anchor in hockey.
I was trying to fight it because I'm such a crazy hockey dad that it's like, oh, like you're too close to the fire. Like, don't also be a crazy entrepreneur, you know, 'cause I'm crazy entrepreneur and I'm a crazy hockey dad. Like, don't put those together. Like that is, that is like, who knows what'll happen, but, um, but I've done it.
Um, and uh, and then within that it's like, okay, but like. What am I actually gonna build? And so I've been finding that I'm gravitating more towards player development and and I've been finding that, you know, if I look at what I have to bring [01:09:00] to the table, it's probably around thinking about how technology could help in a fuller way.
But I'm very cognizant that there's a lot of really smart people that have been coming working on this a long time. You know, from the player development perspective, from a coaching standpoint, from a from a skills perspective, from an agent perspective, from a technology provider perspective, you know, hardware, software, you know, you name it.
And it's like, alright, well I kind of have to be a student of it, right? And, um, and it's kind of weird because like right now I'm just learning, but it's like, I'm gonna anchor somewhere. And so I think especially if you're a technology provider, maybe you're a little leery because you're like, all right, who's this tech guy that's gonna anchor somewhere?
Like, I don't wanna talk to him. Right? But at the same time, like I, I don't wanna anchor someplace that if someone already has covered, like I wanna. Find a way to anchor where there's actually white space where it will help all the key stakeholders and where it can help lift all boats. And by personality, like I am, I wanna be everybody's friend, right?
So that's a long way of saying, I don't know. But if you're, [01:10:00] if you're interested in what I'm doing and you feel like you have a perspective to share or you have ideas for a perspective you would wanna hear on the show, or there's a technology platform I should be getting familiar with, or a certain coach that's really done it right, or any of the topics you hear on the show just like, tell me 'cause I'd love to learn.
And then if you're enjoying the show and getting benefit from it and you have other friends that you think would also get benefit from it, tell your friends. And beyond that, I don't really have any ask other than just, a pat on the back every once in a while, so I don't feel like I'm crazy, which, um, I'm sitting up here in Vermont by myself and you know, my wife's here this week, although she's been out like.
Paddle boarding or whatever. And I'm just sitting here grinding by myself. I have no team. I have no, there's no people around and like, I'm still working founder hours in this beautiful place, right? So it's like back to your whole thing about sacrifice, that really resonates with me.
But it's also, it's a pretty lonely road to be honest, especially in these earliest days.
Nathan Bowen: Well, I, I have a really deep respect, uh, for what you're doing. I think it's an in incredibly brilliant move to be speaking to as many people [01:11:00] as possible. I, I would highly encourage, as you and I were talking before the, jumping on here, I would highly encourage connecting with some of our incredible leadership at USA hockey you know, pat Kelleher, John Van Bees, Brooke Ken Martel Bob Mancini.
I think what USA hockey has done and accomplished, especially over the last 15 years with, with Kenny launching the American Development Model and, and the impact that it's clearly had. On the number of National Hockey League players, right, that we've been able to develop and put into the league, and that's gonna continue to grow.
But you look at the back to back world junior, uh, hockey championships that we've won, you take a look at how well we're performing on the world stage. It's really exciting and again, in my opinion, it all comes from the top. And when you have good leadership and they have a vision and they're not afraid to try different things make some mistakes, but then also get out there and research what's working in other sports and how we can apply that to [01:12:00] hockey.
You know, I think we have some really great leadership right now. And, and that's why I think you see hockey trending here in our country as, as well as it is. I'd encourage you to get in, in touch with some of, you know, some of those folks and, the US National Development Team program.
I don't think there's a better place in the world to go and, and develop as a, as a young hockey player aspiring to play professionally.
Jason Jacobs: Oh yeah. I mean, I have it at a huge PE pedestal as a dad, but back to your point from earlier, like, it doesn't matter what I think. Like it, like it, like the kids have gotta chart their own path. But, uh, but like you, I'm obsessed with the game. And if, you know, if my kids wanted a one track, I'd be okay with it, but but not my choice to
Nathan Bowen: Yeah.
Biggest thing is to enjoy the ride, man. 'cause it doesn't last forever, as you know. But, um, I think it's awesome that, you know, you get you have an opportunity to bond with them over, uh, a sport that you loved and enjoyed as well, you know, and, uh, so just enjoy the ride and I know it, uh, again, I.
It can be tough and sometimes, you know, we wanna, you know, we [01:13:00] wanna tap that coach on the shoulder and, and ask some questions, but I think the more we can utilize sport to teach our kids, lessons that are gonna carry them beyond when they're playing days are over is, is what matters the most in the game.
Jason Jacobs: Well, great point to end on from a great discussion. So Nathan, thanks again for coming on the show. Best of luck to you and the whole total package hockey and TPH Academy team and would love to just keep an open dialogue as I get further along and find some stuff to do together, but much respect for everything that you've built.
So thank you.
Nathan Bowen: I really appreciate your time, Jason. Love what you're doing and like I said, anything that we can do to help contribute we love to advance things in the game and obviously for, for our student athletes. So thanks so much for the time. Appreciate it, man.
Jason Jacobs: Thank you for tuning in to The Next Next. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did and you haven't already, you can subscribe from your favorite podcast player, whether it's Apple, Spotify, or any of the others. We also send a newsletter every week on the journey itself. [01:14:00] The new content that we publish, the questions that we're wrestling with, how the platform itself is coming along, that we're planning to build for player development, and where we could use some help.
And you can find that at the next next.substack.com. Thanks a lot and see you soon.