Host Jason Jacobs interviews Sean Skahan, former NHL strength and conditioning coach (Minnesota Wild, Anaheim Ducks; 2007 Stanley Cup) and owner of Skahan Sports Conditioning. Skahan describes shifting from football into hockey performance, and how training evolved from heavy aerobic work to a year-round emphasis on strength, speed, power, and injury prevention. He argues youth players often overdo offseason ice time, limiting recovery and gains, and outlines an 11-week, four-days-per-week model with alternating high/low intensity sessions, sprint/plyometric/Olympic-style work, and conditioning. Skahan emphasizes coaching technique, choosing safe exercises, and avoiding training-related injuries; he tracks metrics like vertical jump and 10-yard dash but avoids labeling young kids with deficits. He advocates multi-sport participation to prevent burnout, discusses balancing experts with long-term development, shares why he left the NHL to focus on youth advancement, and offers parent advice to stay calm at games and respect referees, plus ways to access his gyms, online programs, and podcast.
Host Jason Jacobs interviews longtime NHL strength and conditioning coach Sean Skahan, former Minnesota Wild and 2007 Stanley Cup champion Anaheim Ducks coach, now owner of Skahan Sports Conditioning and author of Total Hockey Training. Skahan describes entering hockey after playing football and interning with Mike Boyle, and explains how hockey training shifted from heavy aerobic work to a year-round focus on strength, speed, and power. He argues youth players often overdo summer ice time, limiting recovery and gains, and outlines an offseason model of four sessions per week with alternating high/low intensity, power work twice weekly, and conditioning twice weekly, emphasizing coaching technique and injury prevention. He supports multi-sport participation to avoid burnout, discusses limited but useful performance tracking, critiques overreliance on sports science apps, and shares his move from the NHL to youth development and resources for in-person and online training.
00:00 Show Introduction
00:16 Meet Sean Skahan
02:34 From Football to Hockey
03:48 How Training Evolved
06:48 Building Player Programs
09:04 Youth Offseason Confusion
10:28 FOMO and Summer Priorities
15:22 Four Day Training Blueprint
17:16 Choosing the Right Coach
19:11 What Makes Coaches Great
22:57 Injury Proof Training
24:25 Coaching In The Gym
25:04 Basics Plus Evolution
27:12 Tracking And Testing
29:11 Tech Versus Communication
31:08 Avoiding Early Burnout
35:14 Holistic Athlete Balance
38:53 Dreams And Backup Plans
40:37 From NHL To Youth Training
43:34 State Of The Game
46:44 Work With Sean
48:02 Parent Sideline Advice
49:23 Closing And Signoff
[Jason] (0:00 - 2:11)
Welcome to Puck Academy, a show about how hockey players grow on and off the ice. I'm Jason Jacobs, the host. And each week I talk with players, coaches, and experts shaping the future of player development.
Today's guest is Sean Skahan. Sean is a former longtime NHL strength and conditioning coach and now the owner of Skahan Sports Conditioning. For the last 20 years, he's been a strength and conditioning coach in the NHL while working with the Minnesota Wild and the Anaheim Ducks, where they won the Stanley Cup in 2007.
He's trained thousands of NHL players throughout this time, and prior to the professional level, he worked at the Division I college level with BU, BC, University of North Dakota, and University of Minnesota. Now, Sean did not grow up a hockey guy. He actually grew up playing football, but he fell into strength and conditioning, fell into strength and conditioning for hockey, and now he's done so at the highest levels of the game for the longest time.
Recently, he's come back around to the youth level, working with kids, prep players, juniors, etc., to help them achieve their goals. We have a great discussion in this episode about how the sport has been evolving, how strength and conditioning has been evolving from the time Sean first started getting into it decades ago to today. The state of the game, especially at the youth level, and then with a strength and conditioning hat on, how young is too young, how much is too much, how personalized should it be, how standardized should it be for ages and ability levels, and Sean's thoughts on where all of this is going.
It's a great discussion, and I hope you enjoy it. Sean, welcome to the show. Hey, thanks for having me, Jason.
I appreciate it. So only the video people will be able to see, but this is a book that you wrote, Total Hockey Training, and I've had this book for years. In the hockey strength and conditioning world, you're a big deal, and I just happened to notice, I think you might have liked some of my Instagram clips of episodes or something, and then I was like, oh, that's Sean Scahan, and I went to your profile, and you were following Puck Academy.
So I was like, oh, I got to invite this guy on the show.
[Sean] (2:11 - 2:12)
Absolutely.
[Jason] (2:12 - 2:15)
Doing a great job. Oh, thanks. Yeah.
Have you actually listened to the show before?
[Sean] (2:16 - 2:20)
I'm guilty of sitting there on my phone and watching reels. Yeah.
[Jason] (2:20 - 2:28)
I think a lot of people have heard the clip, like exponentially more people have heard the clips than hear the show, because that's like the ADD world that we all live in now.
[Sean] (2:28 - 2:29)
Yes. Yeah.
[Sean] (2:30 - 2:31)
100%.
[Jason] (2:31 - 2:42)
Well, cool. Well, yeah. As I said, thanks for coming on.
Maybe for starters, you're so deep in the hockey strength and conditioning world, but you weren't a hockey guy growing up, correct?
[Sean] (2:42 - 2:47)
Correct. Right. I grew up in Quincy, North Quincy.
[Jason] (2:48 - 2:49)
I grew up in Newton, right around the corner.
[Sean] (2:50 - 3:09)
Right. Yeah. So I grew up in North Quincy, played football in high school, played football at UMass Boston, which the program is now defunct.
Got into strength and conditioning in college. And for the Massachusetts listeners out there, I interned under Mike Boyle back in the summer of 98.
[Jason] (3:10 - 3:13)
All the Mass people know him, but I bet a lot of people outside of Mass know him as well.
[Sean] (3:13 - 3:48)
Oh, yeah. 100%. 100% they do.
One of the foremost leading experts, hockey strength and conditioning, sports performance. And I got to know him and work with him. Then I kind of fell into hockey.
And that wasn't the intention. I was a football player. I thought I would be the strength and conditioning coach on the sideline at football games, whatever, NFL, college football, whatever.
But then I got into training hockey players, and that's how my path turned into.
[Jason] (3:48 - 4:02)
I mean, so many people come on the show. I mean, I see with my own eyes. I grew up playing the sport, and it's just such a different game now.
As the games evolved over the last several decades, how has your craft evolved kind of under the hood supporting the game?
[Sean] (4:03 - 4:39)
Yeah, great question. When I first started in the NHL early 2000s, 24 years ago now, yeah, it was different. It wasn't as important or stressed upon that it is today, for sure.
It's a 365-day-per-year process that maybe back then it might have been just the offseason and a little bit during the season. But now it's so important across all levels.
[Jason] (4:39 - 4:58)
As the focus on it has increased, has the craft itself changed in terms of best practices, whether it's frequency, whether it's exercises, whether it's misconceptions that were back then that are now better understood now? What's different?
[Sean] (4:59 - 6:25)
Yeah, absolutely. I think there was a large push, or everyone, not everyone, every team was doing a lot of this aerobic work, riding the bike for long periods of time, with the intention of trying to increase your VO2 max. Because that happened in the 80s in the NHL.
That was your typical strength and conditioning program. There was an aerobic-based push from researchers or scientists. And coaches kind of got ahead of their time and said, oh, we need to be doing this stuff to help our players.
And it morphed. It slowly turned into, OK, well, let's look at the game. You have to have strength.
You have to have strength. You have to have speed. You have to have power.
And that has kind of changed the way things change in a way. I think when you can say, OK, well, we can help younger kids get faster, get stronger, get more explosive to help them play better on the ice. And when you think about those methods and training ideas that can help that process, I think that's what it's turned into.
And there's less. Aerobic training is still important. Don't get me wrong.
But that is just a small piece of the puzzle now, if that makes sense.
[Jason] (6:25 - 7:12)
It does. And, I mean, I've heard you say that when people think, oh, I need to train in the offseason, that their first instinct is more ice time, more ice time, more ice time. And actually less ice time and more of the stuff under the hood in strength and conditioning to better prepare players to come back more powerful, quicker starts, stronger on their feet, better strides, whatever.
Right? There's so much that can be done off the ice. I'm curious, when you think about designing a program for a player, is it mostly just age based?
Is it position based? Is it customized for each player? And, you know, is it ability level based?
Like how do you, you know, like how does the program scale as you go up the age ranks? And also, how does it personalize or how should it?
[Sean] (7:12 - 8:29)
Yeah, with our programs, we basically stay to one model for a whole offseason. And the younger kids are going to learn how to train properly. And what the difference is, is how much load is used from a younger kid to an older player.
And it's twofold. Like the younger kids are learning the system. They're learning how to train properly.
They're learning how to show up every day on time, put in the work that they need to do, be coachable, be taught how to do things properly and execute exercises proficiently with technical instruction. The older players, a lot of them, like they have to get into that offseason training mode where we're now going, OK, we're coming out of a season. We're beat up.
We're tired. We need to kind of reestablish some movement patterns, some strength levels. And we got to build from there.
But the program itself, there's not too many differences in what, say, our U14 or our Bantam players are doing versus our college athletes.
[Jason] (8:30 - 8:44)
And when you look across sports, how much stays consistent that just kind of fundamentals that anyone who cares about strength and conditioning and is an athlete should do and how much of it should get customized on a per sport basis?
[Sean] (8:44 - 9:04)
There isn't really a need for too much customization. There really isn't. We're trying to, like I said, the game is faster.
You have to be stronger, explosive. You got to be lean. You got to be able to withstand injuries.
So a program that can help with all those is going to be the most beneficial.
[Jason] (9:04 - 10:28)
So my son is he'll be at U14 next year and people his age. I feel I mean, he's been he's been working out for a few years, but but really in the in the early years, it was much less about like making real progress. And it was more just about exposure, habits, loving the gym, the camaraderie.
Right. But I feel like now and I would love your input. But but like that's what's starting to feel like when kids get to this age that you can really start dialing it up.
But season's almost over. And just as a dad, I think about. All right.
You know, and he and he thinks about it, too, but he doesn't. He's just like, like, you know, yeah, I want to train in the offseason. I want to get better and I can come back strong.
But it's like, well, what does that mean? He's like, I don't know. And then and then he'll ask me, what does that mean?
And like I played the game growing up, I played like sort of played in college and I'm like, I don't know. Right. And and it's like, all right.
Like, do I go to Instagram? Do I, you know, and and there's just great gyms around here. Right.
But but then it's even like, all right, should it be twice a week? Should it be three times a week? Should it be four times a week?
Should we do edge work like like should he be doing cardio on his own? Should he do hill runs? Like it's like I have no idea.
So like is there like what are the best practices? Like how how should anyone in my shoes think about that? Like where do you even start?
[Sean] (10:28 - 14:38)
See, I'm a parent of hockey players as well. And I know what I know from a professional standpoint. And my opinions on how an offseason should be addressed and.
I'm sure it's the same in Massachusetts, and I just posted this the other day. So this is the time of year, the end of the season when. A coach.
Whether that be college, junior, high school, pro. Or a general manager might say to a player, hey, you need to get faster and stronger. They don't they don't say.
You need to be better at being F1 on the four check. You need to be better at being, you know, the third high, the third guy high on the four check, whatever. They don't say that stuff.
What do they say? It's you need to get stronger, need to get faster. And so what I see, especially here in Minnesota.
It's parents get caught up in like that FOMO, fear of missing out. And it's well, yeah, I was when my my oldest son was younger, I am guilty of that as well. I think, oh, maybe he should do this because.
These good players are doing that, so maybe we should check that out. But. You have to be not afraid, you can't be afraid of going against the grain when it comes to your child's development.
So going back to what those coaches are looking for, I want you to get stronger, I want you to get faster. So. Go do that, go do that, especially in the early months of the summer.
Focus on that. That should be your priority. Showing up every day with the intention of trying to get stronger, trying to get faster off the ice.
So that when you return to the ice, you can have those physical improvements. Now, what happens is. Oh, I'm going to do that, you know, that's I'm all in on that.
Oh, oh, but there's a. Skating sessions that are going on five days a week. In the mornings and I can do my skates, then I can do my workouts and then.
No, that doesn't work that way, especially when you're looking at the months of May, June, July. When your season starts in October, November. Why that why won't that work?
Because you're trying to do too many things all at once when your focus is should be on getting faster and getting stronger. What happens is athletes there, you look at in-season athletes like they're tired, they're burnt out, they're they're practicing, they have games. Very stressful, not only from a physical standpoint, from a mental standpoint as well.
So you're going to come out of the season and then continue what you're doing in the season, but also trying to get bigger, faster, stronger while you're still playing hockey every day. And what I see is. Kids can't recover, they can't they can't recover from their workouts because they're they're skating every day.
And while if you're going to if you're going to. Think about improving on the ice, how are you going to improve on the ice if you're trying to recover from your strength workout? So that's where I'm at on things, and it's a tough, tough hill to climb to educate people on this because goes goes back to formal.
You know, I'm going to be my kids going to be left behind. Well. I tend to think the other way, if you work on your strength and power, speed and get in better shape.
Maybe do some skill stuff a little a few times during the early parts of the summer, whether it's a power skating coach or stick handling on the ice. I get it. But going to the rink four or five times a week for an hour, pretty much practice sessions is not going to help you get better.
It's a long, it's a long winded answer, but that's where I'm at with that.
[Jason] (14:38 - 15:21)
OK, so if you put aside the skating and I mean, let's even and it won't be blank slate, but let's just assume that there is no on ice. We're only talking about the strength and, you know, the power and speed that you're suggesting. OK, if you're going to fill that bucket and you're starting with a clean slate, how do you optimize for it?
Like how how does one get stronger and and faster? Like what frequency? What should they do?
You know, what duration? You know, what intensity should they be going at? How should they think about recovery?
Where do you know? How do they know when they're when their body, you know, like when they're, you know, being soft and they should dial it up versus when they should be smart and dial it back?
[Sean] (15:21 - 17:16)
I think you have to be able to compartmentalize the fact that, OK, this is what I'm going to try to do this summer, for example. And what we do is we do for four sessions a week for 11 weeks. We started mid-June here in Minnesota.
Both of our facilities, we have the same program going on. And each day. It's either a high intensity day or a low intensity day, that's four days per week.
Twice a week, we're working on our. Quote, say leg power. Sprints, plyometrics, Olympic style lifting to increase that force production in our easier days are kind of a more upper body emphasis days, kind of lower intensity.
But we're still pushing the weights with kind of these. Not really taxing exercises as, say, leg exercises, and we do our conditioning twice a week on those days as well. And they're full body workouts there.
The emphasis is on trying to get better over time. That's what it is that that's that's what we're trying to do the day in and day out, showing up, being on time, putting in the work, smart work. We're not you know, we understand that we can't.
Kill not killing anybody, but we're not pushing the envelope that hard on a daily basis, but twice a week we are. And then we want to try to increase that the next week that we're going to get a little bit more out of them on those days. All throughout the summer.
And the result is when. You look back into the summer, you're like, wow, you know, I've gotten better at my sprinting, I've gotten better at my power output, I've gotten better at my I can do more chin ups, I can I'm leaner, I'm faster. So that's what we're trying to accomplish.
[Jason] (17:17 - 18:17)
One of the things I wrestle with as a dad, right, is that I don't know what I'm doing. People like you do know what you're doing. And and so presumably your kid will get better results if they go to someone like you versus, you know, if they listen to someone like me, plus, like, who wants to listen to dad?
Right. So so so in that realm, it makes total sense to go to someone like you. But if you're, you know, scheduling out other stuff, right, then, you know, it's kind of like like like why they say don't feed wild animals, right, because they don't learn how to hunt.
Right. And and so, like, what have you seen in terms of youth development? And I mean, I guess so I'm asking you this with a professional hat on, but I'm also just asking you this as a dad.
Right. And because because like the ability to hunt and seek and be hungry for it, right, is a skill in itself. So how do you balance that with surrounding kids, with experts, if you're trying to help shepherd them through through their development journey?
[Sean] (18:18 - 18:24)
Yeah, I think it's finding not searching, but being around the right people who have the best interest in your child.
[Jason] (18:24 - 18:25)
Mm hmm.
[Sean] (18:25 - 19:12)
That's what I think. And there's some good people out there. And what do they know?
What what is their experience? What can they bring to the table in that area that you would like to see your child improve upon? I think that's important.
You have to vet out the process. It's also important to look at, OK, who have they worked with before? Who have they done what they say they do with?
And. I think that's important. I think, you know, from if as a parent for my own kids, I'm I'm also good about knowing vetting out those people as well, all those programs.
I'm like, yeah, I don't think that'd be good for you. But, you know, we're going to keep doing what we're doing and believing in the process. That everything is going to work out in the long run.
[Jason] (19:12 - 19:41)
If you look at the philosophies that that you've come to believe in champion implement and you look at some of the other top strength and conditioning people around the game. How much consistency is there from one strength and conditioning coach to another at a given level? And how much it how much is, you know, kind of someone's unique special sauce in your experience?
[Sean] (19:41 - 21:03)
Going back to what I said earlier, like who have they worked with before? Have their athletes, their clients, have they achieved success? Have they gotten results?
Are they. Are they. Athletes that don't get hurt often, are they athletes that are good people?
But I think when you're measuring strength and conditioning coaches, sports performance people, I look at it like. OK, can the coach. Get the kids to do what they would like them to do and.
Do those kids keep showing up, do they keep coming back, do they keep coming back or they. Are their parents, you know, shoppers, are they looking around for what. Might be, I don't know, cheaper or better in their minds when they don't really know what's better, and that's that's what I see is the consistency aspect of people that have been doing in a long time.
Looking at, again, like I said, who have they worked with before, what kind of results did their clients achieve? And that's how you measure. That versus someone who might say they work with.
You know, this player, that player, but. It's not the case.
[Jason] (21:03 - 21:53)
I mean, I've heard you say on other shows that you're a Boyle guy and I take that to mean, you know, you're kind of trained by and maybe ascribed to similar. Development philosophies, although, of course, correct me if I'm mistaken about that. But but but when you look at the development philosophies of other people, you know, at his level or at your level are like like if you if you had a you know, if you took the you know, the the ten or twenty five of them or whatever that you that you respect the most.
Right. Like like we would you guys be kind of singing the same tune or they're wildly different philosophies and are there rights and wrongs or or is it just like, no, there's like multiple ways to get there and and and you can just choose the one that resonates best with you.
[Sean] (21:53 - 22:57)
Yeah, there's a lot of brilliant strength and conditioning coaches out there. And one thing I like to see is like, OK, do their athletes keep going there? Do their athletes go there and do they not get hurt like that?
There is some places or coaches where their athletes will get hurt doing stuff that they they're they're getting injured while training. And that's like the rule number one. You do no harm.
You cannot do any harm as a strength coach. You need your athletes need to feel better after the offseason or whatever and say, I can't wait for next summer. Like, that's what I love about my clients.
They they can't wait for next summer. I feel great. I'm going to go into the season.
I'm feeling fantastic. And what I've always liked about Mike's stuff is that. He has the ability of of of preventing athletes from getting hurt in the gym while getting better.
And I think that's important. That's what good strength and conditioning coaches do.
[Jason] (22:57 - 23:11)
When you look at some of the reasons why at some gyms athletes might tend to get hurt. What are the causes of that and what are the best ways to avoid that as a strength and conditioning coach?
[Sean] (23:12 - 25:04)
Well, you got to be good at your craft. You got to know what an exercise might not work with the clients you're working with. For example, I don't know.
I'll just say back squats. You got to know your athletes like you can't have an 11 year old performing back squats. Now with an exercise like back squats, for example, there's a lot of different ways that an exercise can be executed.
And when they don't have the strength or the mobility and a lot of it is too is too much weight doing it during an exercise. And you have to pick the right exercises where that gives you the least chance of getting injured. While using appropriate loads.
And I think that's important. A good strength and conditioning coach has the way, the eye to see that. What an exercise should look like and what an exercise shouldn't look like.
If I said, yeah, you know what I'm saying. And then being able to correct what doesn't look good in an exercise. And so we, we're like, we, we're not a planet fitness or a, I don't know, anytime fitness, whatever you guys have in Massachusetts.
You don't just go and do your workouts. What's no, you're, you're coached. You're coached the same way you'd be coached on the ice with this is how it's going to look.
This is how I want you to do it. Okay, that looks good. Let's tweak this, tweak that.
Good job. Okay, let's put a, let's maybe put five more pounds on the bar. The next set.
So it's choosing the right exercises. And being able to coach them. And I think that's what a good strength and conditioning coach can do, should do.
As well as having a long-term plan in that process to help them get better.
[Jason] (25:05 - 25:25)
In terms of the, you know, the methodology that you've come to embrace. Is it, is it, you know, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. And, and, and I found something that works and I keep this consistent.
Or, or are you continuing to, to learn and, and evolve your, your craft? What, what's your philosophy there?
[Sean] (25:26 - 27:12)
Yeah, that's a great question. I hate to say the word old school. I kind of, when someone says they're old school, I think that's a way of saying they're lazy or they're, they're arrogant.
But no, we're always trying to learn and grow and get better. But we still have our basics that we stay, that we stay true to. You know, for example, we still do pull-ups and chin-ups.
Like, okay. I love to see my young athletes get stronger at pull-ups and chin-ups. I think it can help to prevent them from getting a, a shoulder injury in a, in a game of hockey.
I, I think it also helps with eliminating the, the need for kids to think they have to bench press more. But no, let's, let's do more chin-ups. And then what I see is their bench presses go up when they can do more chin-ups, which is great.
But I'm not, I, I, I've been doing pull-ups and chin-ups for 26 years now. And I, I don't see that ever coming out of the program until, until someone, someone shows me or I learn a new exercise that could tell me, hey, this is better than that. So there are exercises like that.
And our program does continue to evolve, but we still stick with the basics. We still do one-leg squats. We still do, we will bench press with a barbell.
And we're always trying to evolve and learn. And whether it's mobility exercises or quote core exercises, anything we can do to help our players, our athletes get better, I'm all for that. And we're going to do our best that we can to find out what is being done at a, at a good level.
And I also have to trust the people I'm learning from.
[Jason] (27:12 - 27:24)
What are your thoughts on measurement and data progress tracking, et cetera? And how do you incorporate that or not incorporate that into your work?
[Sean] (27:25 - 29:11)
We don't measure, for example, like there are situations where an NHL performance coach might send me their clients, their players measurements who's going to work with me during the off season. And we'll sit down and look at those numbers and metrics and all that. But we don't do evaluations on our kids.
I'm not a big fan of pinpointing what a young 12-year-old, a 13-year-old kid might not be good at. And I don't think that's a good positive way to kind of, to get them into the training process. But yeah, we, we do measure things during the summer.
For example, we'll measure vertical jumps. We measure our 10-yard dash speeds all along the course of the program. But yeah, like for, you know, I worked in the NHL for 20 years.
And every preseason we do measurements on our players. And we would sit down, evaluate, okay, what does player X need to work on? What does player Y need to work on?
And so, yeah, we, we don't bring it to the private sector like I did in the NHL. But we certainly look at metrics over the course of a summer. And yeah, go from there.
Nowadays, like in the NHL, you're not allowed to test your athletes anymore, which is crazy. It's mind-boggling to me. And so, I don't know.
But I think the private sector people will have the ability to keep measurements. Because athletes want to know where they're at. They want to know what they need to work on.
They want to know what they need to improve on. And so, that's where I think that's going.
[Jason] (29:12 - 29:32)
So, how does that translate in terms of the equipment? I mean, increasingly, it seems like every, every piece of equipment, even like the old trustee staples can be connected if you want them to be in terms of sending data to the cloud. I mean, do you, are you a fan?
Are you leaning into that? Or do you just kind of, you know, stick with the old school in that regard?
[Sean] (29:33 - 31:08)
A little bit of both. We do, we do some measurements. You know, I use my phone to measure our time 10-yard dashes and our vertical jumps.
But, I don't know, I struggle with that in the NHL. Because I saw it going into a more science, sports science, which is great. But I always thought that you have to have the ability to communicate with your athletes on a daily basis.
And it can't, it can't always be through an app or a cloud. And you have to have the ability to, hey, how was your day? How are you feeling today?
And a lot of times I think you have to, have to have the ability to have that conversation with a player. Maybe they, maybe they were minus five the night before. Maybe they, I don't know, maybe they didn't get the amount of ice time that they felt they deserved.
Maybe something happened at home, like they're fighting with their spouse or whatever. The kids are sick or something like that. So you have to, like, talk to them about that.
Instead of looking at the cloud and being like, oh, so-and-so is a, he's a five out of 10 today. You know, like, I haven't talked to him at all, but I struggle with that. I did struggle with that towards the last few years.
I'm like, man, like, I can see where this is going, but I don't know if that's a good thing. I think you have to have the personal skills, and your athletes appreciate that as well.
[Jason] (31:09 - 32:16)
One tension that I observe is, I mean, increasingly youth sports, youth hockey is getting professionalized earlier and earlier, and there's more pressure to specialize earlier and earlier, and, you know, you're playing year-round and stuff like that. I mean, as you said, you spent decades in the NHL working with some of the, I mean, the highest-level players in the game. I could see a world where it's like, oh, like, take someone like you and put them with, like, you know, the kids in the development program that are, like, six, seven, eight years old, and, like, start them early and, like, get them going, and they'll have such an advantage over time.
And then there's another school thought that's like, let them be kids. Like, don't burn them out. Keep it fun.
Go play street hockey. Go fishing and go play other sports. Like, don't be overscheduled, right?
I mean, you're also a dad. How do you think about that tension, and did you wrestle with it at all with your own kids, especially given just, like, how equipped you are to, you know, to whip them into shape?
[Sean] (32:17 - 35:14)
Yeah, it's hard for parents not to get sucked into, my kid is good at hockey. He should be playing it year-round. It's hard.
I've been there. It's hard to not get sucked into that. But I think playing multiple sports as long as you can before it starts to get really serious.
Now, that's the gray area. When does it start to get serious? And, no, I have seen kids who, honestly, I have seen kids who have, like, just been year-round hockey players and have done really well.
I have seen those. They are out there. However, for the most part, the ones who just play hockey on a year-round basis are going to burn out.
They're not going to enjoy hockey that much anymore. They're going to look back and say, I wish I would have played soccer, tennis, golf, baseball, football, to make them more well-rounded. And what I always tell parents is, like, I always ask them, what other sports do they play?
Oh, they just play hockey. I'm like, he's 12 or she's 12. Like, no, they need to be playing other sports.
Make them. Make them play another sport. Why?
Because the skills that can be taught at a different sport can relate to hockey, baseball, hand-eye coordination, soccer, definitely, you know, agility or controlling the puck in your feet or tennis, lateral movement. And that's what I've seen. Even back when I worked in the NHL, like, a lot of those guys were outstanding baseball players in high school.
They were box lacrosse players in Canada. They were basketball players, athletes, football players. Like, they were multiple athletes before they chose to play hockey.
Now, with my own kids, my older guy, when we lived in California, he played soccer. He played lacrosse. He played flag football.
He played baseball. And then when we moved to Minnesota, it was baseball. Always played basketball.
And then it kind of became hockey on a full-time basis around 13, 14. My younger guy is an outstanding golfer. He plays hockey.
He played lacrosse. He played baseball. Yeah, you got to be well-rounded.
You got to be well-rounded. And what I unfortunately see is, like, 8- or 9-year-old kids just playing hockey. And I don't think that's a recipe for success.
[Jason] (35:15 - 37:04)
Another thing that I think about is, as a dad, right, like, I have a kid. And, I mean, beyond hockey, it's like you think about, like, how to raise a good human and how they're happy and good habits and, you know, friendships and whatever. So, like, that.
But even within hockey, it's like, okay, like, I want to optimize their off-season training, let's say. And I get that, you know, maybe on ice is overdone and off ice is underdone. Right?
And so point taken. Right? But, like, there's probably some other stuff you're going to want to do.
Like, it might involve, like, dialing in nutrition. It might involve edge work. It might involve, like, specific skills you want to work on.
I mean, it might be watching video and work on IQ. Right? And so you talked about how you have a methodology.
And you didn't use the word one size fits all. But it seemed like, you know, within a certain age group, like, it's like, all right, like, here's what we're going to do for the group. But one kid might be coming in that's totally bought into the, you know, like, strength, you know, speed and power is where my focus is.
And another, it might be only 20% of what they're doing. You know, who's thinking about the overall kid and how important is it that, you know, if strength and conditioning is your lane, that you take kind of a holistic view in terms of what role strength and conditioning should play. So it's like general contractor versus subs.
Right? Like, strength and conditioning is a very important sub. And actually your case is, like, maybe it should, like, be more than a sub.
Right? But, but like, you know, are there other things that are important for that kid besides strength and conditioning that are out of your lane, but that you, but that should be coordinated with.
[Sean] (37:05 - 38:07)
Yeah, I think, well, I think having a, a good social life for any athlete is fun. I think, you know, I remember the, the, the pro, the pro professional players off season should be training, golfing, and then going on the lake or fishing, whatever. Like that's, that's great.
I think for young kids, no, like they might have to work a part-time job. They might have to balance their social life. They might have to make sure that they're getting their eight plus hours a night of sleep, their hydration, their nutrition.
It's balancing all that in, in learning how to manage their time with the things that are important in that what I see is kids get that trying to do that with too many things, whether it's another skating session or another power skating lesson or whatever. And I think you have to kind of scale it down a little bit, especially after the season.
[Jason] (38:08 - 39:10)
I mean, as the, I mean, it's great that like the athletic excellence is growing so much in sports. Like, I mean, that's, it's impressive like what these young kids can do at the same time. It's harder and harder not to make it almost like a full-time job at, at younger and younger ages.
And I mean, one thing I wrestle with is that I mean in the grand scheme of things, except if you're like you know, 0.001% or whatever, like you're not going to make a living doing it. And so everybody ends up in beer league and, and like the journey's over, you know, and you're, and you're still at like a very small percentage of your life has passed and then you go out into the world. And so like optimizing for the long view seems so important as a parent.
But increasingly, if you want your kid to be competitive, like it needs to almost take over your life. So like at what point are you, you know, is it, is it a positive thing to help your kid work towards mastery and something they love? And at what point, you know, should you kind of put your foot down and say like, like this is a line we're just not going to cross.
[Sean] (39:11 - 39:42)
Yeah. I think it's important to make sure that you provide your child with everything that you possibly can to allow their dreams, not yours, their dreams to, to happen, provide them with the resources, whatever you can do. But like you said, all roads lead to beer hockey, no matter what it, unless you're Yarmir Yaga, who's, I think he's still playing pro.
Like he's, it's unbelievable. He's like, is he what?
[Sean] (39:42 - 39:52)
Late forties now? Yaga is probably 55. Oh my goodness.
Yeah. That's insane. Maybe 50.
Yeah. 54. I don't know, but he's still playing.
[Jason] (39:52 - 39:53)
And I feel like an old man.
[Sean] (39:53 - 40:37)
So anyone, anyone else that's retired, they're playing beer hockey. If they're going to beer league hockey, if they're going to play hockey again. So, yeah.
You have to also make sure that they have, I wouldn't call it a backup plan because that's putting all your eggs in one basket, but have other things that they enjoy doing. So if it's school, if it's a profession they want to do, eventually you have to have those things in the back of your mind as well, because, you know, like you said, it's, it's a small percentage, small percentage of these kids playing the game. A very small percentage are going to play in the, in the national hockey league.
[Jason] (40:38 - 41:01)
And Sean, I want to bring the conversation back around to your work. I mean, you spent, you spent so much time working with players at the highest level of the game. And then in the last few years, it looks like you went out on your own and you're working with kids, maybe not just kids, but, but talk about that transition.
You know, why it happened, what you're up to now, you know, how it's different. And how, and how it's going.
[Sean] (41:03 - 43:33)
Yeah. I was, I was in a situation where I was, did it for a long period of time and I was, man, I was, I hate to say it. I hate to use the word burnout, but I found myself working with really talented players during the in-season part of the process.
And it was awesome. It was awesome to, to work with such highly gifted players, you know, see them, see them do what they do on the ice. But I was missing the, the development process.
Like I was missing that. I missed the off seasons of seeing, you know, I used to get, I used to love it when rookies or 18 year old kids would come in and they'd buy into the training. Next thing you know, they're stars.
Like I'm thinking, you know, there's so many current and future hall of famers that like, I, I had the opportunity to work with that. It was a lot of fun to say I was a small part of that process, but I miss the, when, when you, when you're working in the NHL, you're, you're missing out on a lot of things. You're missing on a lot of family life and a lot of your kids games or events.
And so I, that wore on me a little bit. So I went out on my own and I get my rocks off. Now, when a kid makes the varsity team that played JV the year before, or in Minnesota, we call it, you know, it's tough to compare to Massachusetts, but in Minnesota, it's double a hockey is the highest level for Bantams and Peewees.
I love it. When a kid makes the double 18, I love it. When a kid gets a college hockey scholarship or a kid gets a or a kid gets drafted in the NHL or a kid gets tendered by an all team or tendered by a USHL team.
And they go and make those teams and they do great things. Like that's where I, that's my passion. That's my purpose.
I think is to help hockey players get to that next level, whatever it may be. And for them to, I want to see the smile on their face. Like, Hey, I made varsity or I made JV like, yeah, it's, it's, I like, I like to help the average kids get above average.
The above average kids become excellent. Like, that's what I really enjoy doing now.
[Jason] (43:35 - 43:52)
And if you just like kind of step outside of yourself and take a bird's eye view and look at the state of the, of the game and we'll say at the youth level, because that's where you're spending a lot of your time these days. What do you see? What do you feel good about what you wish was different?
[Sean] (43:52 - 44:11)
I mean, did you watch that gold medal game? I did. Oh my God.
Like that. Are you kidding me? The speed, the explosiveness, the ability of these kids to make plays and like Macklin, Macklin Celebrity, my son played with him in Bantam years.
Like to see him.
[Jason] (44:11 - 44:15)
His dad comes out of your world, but for basketball, right?
[Sean] (44:15 - 46:44)
Yeah, absolutely. Rick Celebrity is a physical therapist. I got to know him when he worked with the Vancouver Canucks.
He was ahead of his time with groin rehab back in the day and hip rehab. And I'm sure he's still doing that with the golden state warriors, but, but you watch the game now and it's like, oh my God. Like I was saying, I say that on, like I made a post, like that was probably the, the best hockey game that I've ever seen.
When you, when you appreciate the, in the goaltending for as well, like the appreciate the, the talent and the, and the ability of these people, these guys to make these plays at such a high level. That's where the game is. Like, that's what, that's where it is right now.
So, and it's going to trickle down. It's going to trickle down to NHL, obviously college hockey, junior hockey, high school hockey. And that's like, if this, this, the state tournament in Minnesota, the state championship game, unbelievable.
I felt like I was watching two NHL teams and it was, that's where the game is. It's fast. It's explosive.
It's these ability, ability, these kids to find open ice and open space and to play heavy on pucks, whether it's, you know, you're defending or you're trying to four check and, and, and hold onto the puck. Like it's all strength and conditioning can help that if you're not good at those things. And what do you wish was different?
I love the NHL playoffs. I love it. Why?
Because they go five on five until the game's over and the Olympics was awesome, but I would love to see that overtime at five on five. I get it. TV has, you know, TV wants the games over quicker.
I get it. But there's, oh man, like there's nothing like, I remember in Anaheim, we had a five overtime win over Dallas. And it's just like, you know, that that's playoff hockey.
And, and I, and, and it's like my, my son plays for a beanpot school. Now the beanpot goes three on three overtime. Like I remember like watching, you know, two or three overtime beanpot championships when I was a kid.
Like, why do I, I don't know, maybe, maybe because I know my son isn't going to be out there three on three, but I, I kind of, I love, that's what I love about NHL Hawk NHL playoff hockey is they go five on five. And I know it's probably not say that we should go back to that because it's not going to happen, but I don't know.
[Jason] (46:45 - 47:00)
Sean, just a logistical question, but for anyone that's inspired by your work and, and want to try it out for themselves or for, for the, for their kids. I mean, is it, do you have to be in Minnesota to do it? Do you offer virtual?
Like how, how do people find you? And, and who can work with you?
[Sean] (47:01 - 48:01)
Oh, I have my own, I have two gyms here in Minnesota in the web. My website is scahandsports.com. I also have a year round, training program, an online program that's on train heroic, train heroic.com.
And I, it's all, all the links are in my bio on my Instagram page. S Skahan. I have a YouTube channel.
I have my own, I have my own podcast, actually the total. Yeah. The total hockey training podcast.
I have, I've had some great guests on their strength and conditioning coaches, sport, performing coaches. A lot of NHL players have been on. Scouts.
I've had advisors on. I've had some highly regarded people in the field of hockey on there. And so my Instagram page is probably my best place.
S Skahan. My business is scahandsports.com. And my online training is available in the links at my Instagram page.
[Jason] (48:02 - 48:06)
Nice. And Sean, is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did, or any parting words for listeners?
[Sean] (48:07 - 49:23)
Yeah, I think as a parent, just it's, I know it's tough. I've been there. I've been at games.
I've maybe watched my kid make a mistake or two, but it's fun to watch games. Like, don't get me wrong. As a parent, it's so fun to watch your kids compete.
And hockey is such a great sport and it can get crazy. And just take a step back and let it all play out. Let it all play out.
And by you yelling at him to skate or shoot, one, they don't hear you. And two, if they didn't hear you, they're blocking you out. So you just, I don't know.
You kind of look like an idiot sometimes when you're yelling things across it and leave the refs alone. I mean, God, these guys, these kids are, these young kids that are trying to ref, they want to ref hockey. That's what they want to do.
They're not perfect. They're not, they're not going to get every call. Right.
They're not, they don't have video review, you know, at the, I don't know, the Canton, Canton rec complex by the penalty box. Like just leave them alone. And just take a deep breath and relax.
[Jason] (49:23 - 49:40)
Great point to end on. Sean, thanks so much for coming on the show. Yeah.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom and your stuff. Sounds awesome. And I read the book, so I know it is, but yeah, best of luck.
Keep in touch. And, and yeah, maybe I'll get my son into some of your stuff too.
[Sean] (49:40 - 49:42)
Yeah. Thanks. Thanks Jason.
Appreciate your time, buddy.
[Jason] (49:44 - 49:54)
Thanks for listening to puck Academy. If you enjoyed this episode, follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share it with someone serious about their game. See you next week.