In this episode of Puck Academy, host Jason Jacobs speaks with Ryan Kosecki, GM of Youngstown Phantoms, Assistant GM for the Maryland Black Bears, Co-General Manager of Junior Hockey at Black Bear Sports Group, and Head Coach for the Fox Motors U16 AAA team. They discuss Ryan's extensive experience in the sport, the evolving landscape of hockey, rule changes, the role of technology and analytics, privatization versus nonprofit models, and advice for players and families. Ryan also shares his thoughts on the importance of hockey IQ and competitiveness, as well as insights into scouting, player development, and the benefits and challenges of different hockey systems.
In this episode of Puck Academy, host Jason Jacobs sits down with Ryan Kosecki, GM of Youngstown Phantoms, Assistant GM for the Maryland Black Bears, Co-General Manager of Junior Hockey at Black Bear Sports Group, and Head Coach for the Fox Motors U16 AAA team. Ryan shares his extensive experience in hockey, discussing his career trajectory and insights into the evolving landscape of the sport. Key topics include the impact of recent rule changes, the role of technology and analytics, the importance of balancing fun with competitiveness in youth hockey, and the intricacies of scouting and player development. Ryan also addresses the challenges of making hockey more accessible and the role of data in enhancing player performance.
00:00 Introduction to Puck Academy
00:15 Meet Ryan Kosecki: A Multifaceted Hockey Manager
04:01 Ryan's Journey in Hockey
05:50 Changes in the Game: Then and Now
08:01 Balancing Fun and Competitiveness in Youth Hockey
11:06 Traits of Impact Players
13:45 Teaching Competitiveness and Hockey IQ
16:20 The Role of Video in Player Development
19:24 The Importance of Skill Coaches
24:05 Late Bloomers and the Path to Success
29:43 Balancing Development and Competition in Youth Hockey
32:47 The Unique Nature of Hockey Scouting
35:21 Evaluating Players: Beyond the Basics
39:06 The Role of GMs and Coaches in Junior Hockey
42:12 Challenges and Trends in Growing the Game
49:04 The Future of Analytics and Technology in Hockey
55:28 Final Thoughts and Parting Words
[Jason Jacobs] (0:00 - 2:21)
Welcome to Puck Academy, a show about how hockey players grow on and off the ice. I'm Jason Jacobs, the host. And each week I talk with players, coaches, and experts shaping the future of player development.
Today's guest is Ryan Kosecki. Ryan is Co-General Manager of Junior Hockey for the Black Bear Sports Group. He's also Co-General Manager for the Youngstown Phantoms in the USHL.
He, in addition, is the Assistant General Manager with the Maryland Black Bears and head coach for Fox Motors U16 AAA team. Prior to joining Black Bear Sports Group, Ryan spent two seasons as assistant coach with the Muskegon Lumberjacks of the USHL where they won the regular season Eastern Conference Championship in his first season. We covered a lot in this episode, including Ryan's journey in the sport.
We talk about his thoughts on how the landscape has changed and is changing. What he's seeing in his seats as general manager in different levels of juniors in terms of the rule changes and Canadian major juniors and how that's impacting stuff for him, for the club and for players. We talk about his thoughts on things like compete and hockey IQ and whether they can be taught the role of technology and analytics in player development.
We talk about privatization versus the nonprofit community model, and we talk generally about how to grow the sport and how to navigate the sport as a player and as a family. Great discussion, and I hope you enjoy it. Ryan, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me, excited to be on. Excited to have you. Yeah, as I told you before we started recording, I haven't done a lot in Michigan hockey yet, and you're certainly well placed in Michigan hockey, you know, with the multiple junior teams you're involved with and TPH.
And I saw some iceberg analytics in your in your past and then, of course, coaching at the at the youth level with with with Fox Motors. So I can't think of many better people to talk with to learn more about what's happening in Michigan hockey. So appreciate you making the time.
[Ryan Kosecki] (2:21 - 2:23)
Yeah, thanks for having me super excited.
[Jason Jacobs] (2:23 - 2:31)
Well, for starters, Ryan, maybe just give an overview of of kind of what what your portfolio looks like in the in the hockey world today.
[Ryan Kosecki] (2:31 - 4:05)
So I in the co GM of the Youngstown Phantoms of the USHL. And then I am the AGM of the Maryland Black person the North American League. And then I also help out with our NCDC team in in the NCDC Mercer Chiefs.
And then I coach Fox Motors, U16 out in Grand Rapids, Michigan. So those are it's all the same ownership under those three junior teams. And so yeah, so it's all kind of one umbrella and help out with all three of those teams.
And then I coach at Fox and do most of my scouting when I'm on the road with my U 16 team. So it helps out kind of kills two birds with one stone, you know, at all the big showcases and tournaments and everything like that. It's pretty easy for me just to do all my scouting for those teams does hockey dad count as part of your hockey portfolio as well.
Yeah, so I have a U13 2012 who also plays at Fox Motors and I help out with his team. I don't make too many of his games due to my job. But at the end of the day, I probably make like 30% of his games and almost all the practices.
So it's it's a lot of fun and it's funny. Everybody, all the parents I deal with and throughout the years, everyone wants their kid to get to the USHL or juniors. And I want my kid to stay in sports forever.
I, you know, he's only got a, you know, four to six years left a youth hockey and I want it to slow down and and stay here forever and just enjoy the ride.
[Jason Jacobs] (4:06 - 4:12)
Talk a bit about your history in the sport. So, so Michigan born and raised.
[Ryan Kosecki] (4:12 - 5:54)
No, no, actually I grew up in Syracuse, New York played for the Syracuse stars growing up and then I attended my sophomore year. I left for for South Camp prep school in Connecticut and played there for three years and then was actually supposed to go play Ucom when they were still D three and and gotten off for to play juniors in the North American League and played for the Sioux Indians in the North America League for three years and then decided to hang him up after college and actually got into the restaurant industry for a few years.
And, you know, would help out coaching here and there and then around 2012 or 13 got into coaching full time. One of my good buddies, John Bocas got me into coaching and, and yeah, and then just found out real quick that I was, you know, that I had a net for it and really liked it. And we had two young kids and my wife was super, super supportive.
I was making no money and actually my first year I tell the story all the time. I think I made $12,000 coaching my first year and absolutely loved it. And then, you know, got lucky here and there and got a job coaching in Muskegon in the USHL in 2018.
And coached there for two years and then was able to get the job with the black bears in 2020. So I'm with my six year with the black bears and in fifth year with the Youngstown fannoms.
[Jason Jacobs] (5:54 - 6:16)
So, we're similar ages. I'm, I'm 49. Maybe talk a bit about how the sport has changed from the time that we were coming up in the game to.
To today and what aspects of that you think are are good changes and maybe what aspects of that you you wish weren't so if any.
[Ryan Kosecki] (6:17 - 8:05)
Yeah, I mean, I think the games changed in a lot of ways, especially mostly for the good, you know, the game's faster. It's, it's more skilled. It's more puck possession driven.
And, you know, when we played, it was get the red by it and dump it in and pin eyes and whole guys and, you know, it was a little bit dirty. You know, a lot more fighting, especially in juniors. And so we've got away from that for the good for the most part and.
You know, there's, there's so much more aspects of it. The thing that I would say the last few years that's even changed more so than the, you know, the possession part is changed huge, but. You know, I think it's pushing towards a positionless game.
You know, where it's more about numbers than it is positions and everyone's got to be able to play and. And everyone's got to be able to skate and everyone's got to be able to make plays nowadays. And another big thing that's changed is I feel like when I played most of the coaches wanted everyone to do the exact same thing.
And no matter what you were, and if you were a small skilled guy and a big heavy guy, everyone was expected to do the same thing. And, and nowadays you really got to, if you want to be a successful coach, you got to use players for what they are. And, you know, this kid's a pure playmaker, this kid's a goal scorer, this kid's a hitter, you know, whatever it may be.
You know, you really got to get the most out of the kids and use them for what they are and show them what they are. And everyone wants to be a goal scorer, you know, a big point guy or a power play guy. And that doesn't fit everyone's game.
And so showing kids what they are and, you know, what they're going to be successful at at the next level is a huge part of our coaches for us as coaches in youth hockey nowadays.
[Jason Jacobs] (8:05 - 9:13)
It might have been before we started recording, but you talked about how, how most people in a rush to get their kids into the USHL or whatever and you want time to slow down and want your kid to, you know, be a squirt for as long as possible because the ride will be over before you know it. It seems like there's a tension because on the one hand, the landscape keeps getting harder, especially for US players, right with the, you know, the Canadian major juniors and. You know, the, the game, the, the, the average entry age is getting older, right for Division one and, and more specialization and more year round and more pressure and more, you know, treating little mites like their division one athletes right but, but then the flip side is like.
All the things you just said, fun and love and, and memories. How do you think about that, that tension and what advice do you have for, for other players and families trying to. Balance that, that tension of helping their kids play as competitively as they can with like doing it for the right reasons and keeping it fun.
[Ryan Kosecki] (9:14 - 11:09)
Yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot to unpack there. You know, there's different layers, but. Yeah, what I was saying is like, you know, everyone wants their kid to, you know, get to the USHL as quickly as possible or get to the North American League or whatever junior level that they were going to play at and.
You know, I want my kid to stay in youth hockey forever. It's so much fun and it should be fun and it's fun as a parent to go there and. You know, like when I always say squirts because when they're in squirts, they lost 10 nothing and.
Two minutes after the game, the kids didn't care and, you know, that's how it should be and obviously that's not how it is. You know, and as you move on and, you know, when my kid be in a band, I'm now it's starting to get where they, you know, they got to take it seriously and. You know, you're starting to get to that age where you got to mentally prepare before games and.
And everything like that, but. You know, I think the big thing is just enjoying the ride and not pushing it and. You know, letting your kid have his path.
So the one thing I tell parents every year I, you know, give these presentations for youth hockey every year and. The big thing I'll say is like parents can't set expectations for their kids. You know, I meet a lot of parents and I feel like they're like, oh, my kid needs to play.
Division one or in the NHL or the U.S. each other and it's like, let your kid at kid have his own expectations. Your goal is a parent should be to have your kid play as long as he dies and love the game when he's our age and nothing else really matters and whatever level they get to they get to support them and give them the support that they want. If you know your kid wants to do this or this then support them and.
And so let your kids set his own expectations and wherever he makes it. He makes it. And if he makes it to, you know, tier three, great.
If he makes it to tier one, great. If he makes it to tier two, great. D3, D1, Summit Pro, NHL, whatever.
Just support them and let their expectations be their expectations.
[Jason Jacobs] (11:10 - 11:33)
When you look at the types of players that end up being impact players at the levels that you coach. Are there similarities in terms of traits that either they have or the environments that they grew up in or the way that their parents were or genetically or I guess what are the commonalities. If any.
[Ryan Kosecki] (11:33 - 13:49)
Yeah, I mean, we get kids from all over. We get kids from, you know, and I'll take young stuff, for example, you know, we get kids from all over. We get kids from, you know, AAA.
We get kids from, you know, prep school. We get kids from Minnesota high school. We get kids from Europe, Canada, everywhere.
So, you know, there's no for sure one, you know, clear path. The thing I'd say is. Playing against the best competition in my opinion is the way kids get better without being out of your league.
Right. Like if you were a middle tier two kid, you shouldn't be pointing to your one or so on and so forth. But the kids get better in my opinion by playing against the best competition.
And so that's something that I, you know, tried from my son is to play against the best competition and you reenact that and you see this kid was amazing at 13 and you steal his ideas and then they become your own and then you solely get better. But, you know, as for common traits, you know, that you have to be competitive. You have to hate to lose, you know, more than you enjoy winning.
You have to enjoy the process nowadays when we played kids could just show up and play and that's tough to do nowadays. You got to enjoy the whole process. And as you get older, and this is for the older kids, you know, you have to enjoy the work, the weight room.
You have to enjoy video. You have to enjoy shooting pox. You know, you have to enjoy getting coached hard.
If you don't like getting coached hard, you'll never make it. And that's how, you know, those coaches that hold those kids accountable and, you know, break their habits, even though they might score three goals in a game and, well, you did everything wrong on this one goal. You should have passed the puck five times or whatever.
And those kids that enjoy that coaching and getting held accountable and are the ones that are going to make it. So the big, the big common trait, you know, I always talk about is competitiveness in IQ. You know, those are the two big traits that I see for kids that move on and have success at the different levels.
Is those two things, you know, are always at the top for me.
[Jason Jacobs] (13:49 - 14:03)
And when you think about those two things, competitiveness and IQ, how much of that is stuff you're born with or you're not, and how much of that is taught. Or can be taught.
[Ryan Kosecki] (14:03 - 16:17)
I'll separate those two. I'd say the funny thing is they're both pretty equal like a lot of it you're born with. Well, you know, let's take a competitiveness for the start like a lot of it you're born with.
You know, but but at the same token. There's kids that, you know, get better at it and, and obviously you like the kid that you got to walk back that, you know, like hates losing so bad that you got to walk him back when he's younger and, and stuff like that. There's some kids that they'll never get it and, you know, and they and they struggle a little bit, but it can definitely be helped and you'll see kids as they get older too will get a little all of a sudden that kid wasn't very competitive and then it gets more competitive.
It's just like hitting or when we were playing, you know, fighting like, you know, like all of a sudden you get a whiff of it and this kid's like, Oh, okay, I love it. And so you can definitely help it and you can teach it a little bit, but you're generally born with it. And then IQ, you know, a lot of it is being born.
But as a coach, you can work on things and you can, you know, do video and hold kids accountable and show them to where you can definitely help their IQ and, and help them learn the game to think the game at a different level. And get better and, you know, I know there's certain kids that are just you're like, man, that kid just thinks the game at another level and his natural IQ is so high. And so I also think one of the things we make big mistakes of is we brand kids as not high IQ hockey players.
And kids can improve and even I've seen numerous kids improve their hockey IQ at the USHL level. And so you're like, Oh, that kid doesn't think it very well. And then by the end of the year, you're like, man, the kids are active a player.
And so all it all means is that coach did what he was supposed to do and help that kid and taught that kid and the kid bought in and was willing to learn. And so, yeah, you can definitely help it. I mean, a big part of it is, is what you're born with, but you can definitely help those two things throughout their kids careers.
[Jason Jacobs] (16:17 - 16:23)
What have you seen work particularly well in terms of the, the help that you can control? How do you teach it?
[Ryan Kosecki] (16:24 - 17:43)
Yeah, I mean, for me, like, as you alluded to earlier, I got my start in my career, you know, early on with iceberg and then I, you know, I used to work for TPH hockey Academy to back in the day. And I'm the biggest believer that there's no better teaching tool than video. You know, you can yell at a kid and tell a kid till you're blue in the face that he should have been here or his stick should have been here or his feet should have been facing this way.
And, you know, when you show them on video, I think that's really the light ball moment. And a big thing that I do, I learned a few years ago, like, I can't remember who taught me it, but I don't tell the kids what they should have done when we're doing videos. I asked them what they should have done should have did.
And so I think that's a big, big teaching tool. When you're doing individual and team video with kids is to ask them, Hey, what should you have done here? Okay, my feet should have been facing this way.
My stick should have been here. You know, I should have shoulder chat. And so I think that helps the kids learn it themselves.
As opposed to you just telling them and them just saying yes, yes, yes. So that's the big thing that I do is video, video, video. You know, and then letting them answer the questions for their mistakes or what they did good, you know.
[Jason Jacobs] (17:43 - 18:02)
And when you do watch the video with some consistency over the course of a season, how important is it to pull out things that you observe on there and try to isolate those when you get on ice or I guess a more general question is just how important is pairing that video with. With with with on ice training.
[Ryan Kosecki] (18:03 - 18:57)
A lot of my practices are, you know, and I know our junior coaches do the same thing. And a lot of our practices are based off what I'm seeing on video and stuff like that. So, you know, this weekend, you know, we were not getting into the danger zone and, you know, we're not living in front of the net.
So, you know, we're on the offensive side, we're going to do, you know, battle drills and on the defensive side, we're going to work on box out. And then the next week, you know, we were terrible and on the wall and in the offensive zone. So, we're going to work on wall play in the offensive zone.
You know, so, so that's the stuff that you're you're constantly basing your practices off what you're seeing in video when you're watching your games back or you're doing shifts with a kid, you know, throughout the year.
[Jason Jacobs] (18:57 - 19:27)
I mean, tends to be at a higher level juniors and division one and pro. I mean, one, because those are the people serious enough to justify it and then to. Or serious enough, but also it's expensive, right.
And takes a lot of time from from these coaches, but I guess my question is, what do you think about the proliferation of these coaches and what role should they play versus the. You know, what happens in a team, if, if any.
[Ryan Kosecki] (19:28 - 21:15)
Yeah, I mean, that's I think it's a multi layer question. You know, the the skill coaches are great, you know, they, you know, they work on things that a lot of coaches don't have time. To work on in practices and, or, you know, or the days, you know, a lot of youth hockey teams are practicing two days a week, two and a half days a week, sometimes three with my six teens as you get older.
And so you might not have the time to work on, you know, the, you know, Johnny needs to work on shoulder checking or scanning or, you know, whatever it may be. And so those skill coaches are one tenders and the skill coaches can work on those things. You know, a good skill coach, you know, just like a good video coach would always say, you know, whatever your coach said is what's most important.
If I'm telling you something different than what your coach said, your coach over overrides it there. You know, and so those are the things that a good skills coach can do and, and can really help a kid and, you know, can work on, you know, things that a kid couldn't do in his practices and stuff like that. And so, you know, I, it's weird.
The one thing I'll say, I'll kind of go down. I take a left turn here is, you know, as someone who used to work that at TPH, you know, we do all these skill drills and everything like that. And the one thing that I think we all struggle with and I'd love to meet a skills coach that doesn't.
And I'd love to steal ideas for him is 95% of the game is played without the puck. And all the skill drills we do are almost all with the puck, right? Which you still got to be skilled with the puck.
You got to be able to pass. You got to be able to shoot. You got to be able to see it.
It is one thing that maybe is the next thing is, you know, doing skill drills without the puck and doing lots of skill drills without the puck since, you know, 95% of the game is played without the puck.
[Jason Jacobs] (21:15 - 22:39)
Have you ever messed around with an app called Duolingo? No, no, I've heard of it though. It's language learning and it essentially it kind of breaks it down into like snackable components where you can just get in in your free time and it kind of gamifies it and makes it fun.
But one of the things I've been wondering about is whether you could teach IQ and maybe to your point. Like positioning without the puck, breakout timing, like scanning, like just, you know, all that like it feels to me and you're way deeper in it than me, which is why I am talking to people like you on the show. But it feels to me just as a dad who watches a lot of hockey that there's that there's a bunch of intangibles that really matter that just are kind of like falling through the cracks, right?
And the assumption is you either have it or you don't, but actually those intangibles are things that can be taught. And what do you one, do agree or disagree, and then two, what do you think about some type of kind of video, whether it's multiple choice or asking questions or just, you know, kind of some way to to teach those intangibles that that matter and can be taught, but aren't getting taught today.
[Ryan Kosecki] (22:39 - 24:09)
Yeah, I mean, I think that's a great thing. And I think, yeah, I mean, even something like to your idea, like a kid is watching just by himself and something pops up and says, you know, these are your four chances on the play you just made, what should you have done and he clicks it and he's wrong and then he learns and then he clicks it again and then he's he's writing stuff like that. So, yeah, I mean, I think that's an, you know what, maybe and then maybe that's the next thing is, you know, coaches teaching that and that video that teaches it without a coach.
You know, I think that's an outstanding idea. Like, you just reminded me of something I did this summer. So I probably did, you know, three or four private lessons with my son this summer.
And one of the things I did is he's a lefty and I would have him come up the wall. He'd get a buck and then he was working on zone entries. But what I was doing is trying to make him teach to scan on zone entries.
So as he was coming up the left side of the clock and our rink is back behind him across the rink on the right. And as he was skating full speed, he'd have to look and yell the time, what time it was off the clock. And so he looked back 159, make the entry, get a pass back and go in and shoot.
And then every time he, you know, scan two o'clock. And so, yeah, I mean, those are some of the things that I work on. You know, that, that I think matters and can help a kid and, you know, how to improve hockey IQ and that's your job as a coach is to prove improve those things, you know, that a kid needs improvement on.
[Jason Jacobs] (24:09 - 25:09)
I'm switching gears a bit, but one of the narratives I've heard consistently is that hockey is a late maturing game where the increased age and strength and size and speed and maturity and whatever, like with hockey. It makes sense that, you know, that they're 21 year old freshmen for, for example, but I've heard you talk on other shows about how you like young teams where you're getting in really talented players early. And even if you are losing games that could be winnable in the regular season, you are really focused on development and the long game with those teams.
I'd love to just hear more about how you think about that kind of prevailing narrative of older and then how you think about these young teams that you've been fielding.
[Ryan Kosecki] (25:10 - 28:15)
Well, three different things. One, you know, we want the best player for us, right? And so sometimes it's a young kid, sometimes it's an older kid.
And so, you know, a lot of teams just go, you know, older and because that kid's been stronger at the beginning of the year and he's going to make last mistakes. You know, we want the best player. And so, you know, our goal is to take the best player and sometimes you got to live with his warts in the beginning of the year.
And then the second half of the year, that kid's going to pass the older kid, you know, and sometimes the older kid is just a late developer. And so the older kid is going to be amazing by the second year. You know, a great person on that is playing at Wisconsin.
Now, Adam Patella, who played for us, you know, he joined us his 20 year old year turned in 21. He had never played in the USHL. He never scored more than 20 goals.
He came to us. You know, he worked with our skills coach throughout the year in the mornings and then with our head coach on everything else. And I believe he's scored 22 goals for us that year and got a scholarship and always playing at Wisconsin in the Big 10.
And he's having a ton of success. So also to the age thing is, you know, like for college with it being so good now, even before you needed to go when you were over ready, you can always leave college early and signing the NHL. You know, but if you go too early, you can ruin your whole career.
And so that's kids nowadays, they like, they want to rush everything like I talked about with with my son, Staining Youth Forever. Like you have a long runway with juniors. It's the only sport that has juniors is hockey.
And so use that whole runway to give you the best, you know, chance to play as long as you can. And that should be the goal, no matter the level you play as to play as long as you can. So when you're over ready, then go into college and dominate.
But a lot of kids are, you know, is really want to go fast and get to college. And sometimes it works. And sometimes it doesn't.
And you just got to be careful there. Now with hockey being a late development sport, that's a whole nother thing. And what I would say to that is that's what makes hockey great is the best player at 10 isn't always the best player at 13.
And the best player at 13 isn't always the best player at 16 and 19. And so on. And in other sports and football and basketball and baseball, usually the best player at 13 is still the best player at 16 and 19.
And listen at hockey, sometimes, you know, you see kids that tear up the brick and then they're in the NHL. But then you also see kids that tear up the brick and don't even make juniors. And then you see kids that, you know, you never heard of and, you know, and they were nobodies and played tier two and then they made tier one at 16 and then played two years at U18 and then they made Division One.
And so that's why hockey is great and just follow your path and whatever your path is, do it, love the game, work hard and have fun coming to the rink every day.
[Jason Jacobs] (28:15 - 29:47)
That touch on something that was on my mind because, I mean, you hear people say, like, oh, like the best, the outliers, they had something special from the earliest age. But then you also hear the best, what you just said, the best player at 10 isn't the best player at 12 isn't the best player at 16 isn't the best player right. And then kind of along a similar path, you have these teams that feel these development teams when the kids are little, like too young to to know, right.
And then in order for a new kid to move on to that team, they need to be like better enough to essentially fire a family, whereas the kids staying on the team just need to blend in, essentially, right. And then, and then everything kind of goes together like the club coaches are then often like involved with the, you know, with the prepper juniors teams and, and, and so on the one hand, follow your own path and tune out the noise, but on the other, it seems like the track kind of matters. And I know, I mean, I, I wrestle with that because the follow your own path thing makes so much sense and is rational, but then, but then, you know, you look at just how, how incestuous it all is and then it makes you feel sometimes like, like, oh, like, like if, if the kid isn't playing in a certain spot, then, then he's not going to get looks and if he doesn't get looks, then he's not going to get opportunities.
And so I guess what advice you have for, for people trying to sort through that noise.
[Ryan Kosecki] (29:47 - 30:50)
Yeah, I mean, it's tough because, I mean, I think I read something, you know, USA hockey says, you know, a perfect team should win 50% of their games and lose 50% of the games, but in the society we live in now. Everyone wants to win every game, right? And, and so it's tough and, you know, and you want that balance and everything.
And I would just say like, you know, play where your kid is going to get great coaching. He's going to be held accountable by a good coach. You know, he's going to play.
He's going to have success, but he's also going to play against the best competition that suits him. You know, whether it's tier two, tier one, house league, you know, whatever. You know, play where it's the best for him where he's going to have success, but he's going to get pushed.
And he's going to have to make decisions and he's going to get great coaching. And so wherever that is for your kid is where your kids should play.
[Jason Jacobs] (30:50 - 31:16)
I heard someone else on another episode talked about how hockey is one of the only sports where at the earliest ages, you collect all the best kids and then fly him around the country to play all the other best kids and that other sports like football doesn't work that way at all. And it turns out just fine. Do you, I mean, do you agree that hockey is one of the only sports that is that way?
And do you think that's a good thing?
[Ryan Kosecki] (31:16 - 32:49)
Yeah, I mean, like, I know baseball does that. You know, I think lacrosse a little bit. I mean, it's tough because it's a, everything's a balance for me.
You know, like if you're playing teams, you know, that you're beating 10 to nothing and or losing 10 to nothing, you know, that's not development or good development. I should say, and if you're scoring five goals a game, that's not good development. And if you're not touching the puck, that's not good development.
And so it's that balancing act of, you know, like, listen, maybe you want to go play a spring tournament for fun, but or maybe you want to go because it's great competition. So, you know, if you could afford it and you want to do it, it's not going to put your family out. There's no problems with it.
Now, if your family can't afford it and now you're going to play all these spring and summer tournaments and this and that. And, you know, that's a whole other, you know, can of worms and, you know, that it's not great for development. So it's tough.
It's it's I don't have a perfect answer for that. You know, I'm big on you want to play the best competition and in the age also matters, you know, should. Should 10 year olds, you know, be flying all around the country every weekend?
No. You know, should it's 16 fly a couple of times to go to a great showcase? Sure.
You know, like that would be my answer as a parent.
[Jason Jacobs] (32:50 - 33:21)
You know, and so yeah, I'd love to get inside your head with your scouting hat on. Is there a method to the madness? Like, for example, do you like to start with video and you look for these things and then when you get in person, like, is there, you know, do you say for whole games?
Is it, you know, have you seen enough after you see X, Y, and Z? Like, like what, what is the approach and how much of it is consistent from scouting expedition to scouting expedition versus, you know, just kind of what feels right in a given situation.
[Ryan Kosecki] (33:23 - 35:24)
So for me, I prefer seeing kids in person. You know, obviously we use, you know, Insta and TP to watch video of kids and, and, you know, find kids there that maybe our other scouts have seen that we haven't seen in person. But what I'm scouting in person, the first thing I look for is hockey IQ.
I've said this before on other podcasts and, you know, how well do you think the game? Do you make your teammates better? Do you make the right play?
A big thing for me is can you make plays when you don't have time and space and then compete? You know, I said it earlier in the podcast. Those are the two big things for me.
You got to be able to compete, you know, and then third would be skill and then fourth would be skating. You know, so you're skating can't be so bad that you're out of the play and you're missing plays and can't make plays because you're skating so weak or, you know, you're going to hit someone in the box already gone. But those would be the four things that I look for, you know, when, when I'm scouting, you know, my partner, Jason Daskins, the Ko-ji M in Youngstown, who's amazing.
So hardest work I've ever been around. He loves video. He's an animal.
He's the hardest work I've ever seen. He does tons of in-scow, but he will like, he finds tons of guys on video and, you know, I can watch video and break down and see a kid. But I love, I prefer in person and seeing them at the rink.
So, you know, for drafting purposes, I like to see them, you know, as many times as I possibly can to make sure I'm sure about a kid. You know, and then after that, after we decide if we like a kid, you know, we'll vet it out and make sure the kids a good kid will make sure he's a good fit for us. You know, and then that's how we build our draft board.
[Jason Jacobs] (35:25 - 35:35)
And how do you think about stuff that you don't see with your eyes, stuff like size, weight, points, or, or any other metrics that matter?
[Ryan Kosecki] (35:36 - 37:30)
Size and weight, you know, they definitely matter, but it's not the end all be all. You know, it's, it was a little bit, you know, bigger when we played and stuff like that, but, you know, it's, it's not, you know, as, you know, even in the industry, you know, it's not, you know, as. You know, they've got a way from it a little bit, you know, and they occasionally, you know, take smaller players I know now everyone wants big defense because this last Stanley Cup couple teams were, were huge.
But at the end of the day, I want the best player. You know, the you have to have elite talents to play, you know, tier two and tier one juniors. And so, you know, what do you do elite, you know, are you an elite pastor, are you an elite skater, are you an elite thinker, are you an elite goal scorer.
And so, if I think your game is going to translate to our level, I don't care about your size obviously, you know, the bigger you are, it helps. But at the end of the day, well, it's just like goalies, our goalie, our backup goalie in Maryland is, is five foot four, you know, and he's playing in the North America League and he's got like a nine 10 or something like that C percentage. You know, and when you look at the games, it looks like someone dropped off his little brother, their little brother and put him in that and the kids smarter than everybody.
He competes harder than everybody. And he's great at goaltending. So who cares that he's five foot four, like, why do you care?
He can play the game. So, you know, that's, that's how we are. And listen, we also have seven kids that are over six foot tall on Maryland or six two or whatever it is, you know, it's, you just want the best player nowadays and I'm not going to not take a kid because of his size as long as I know his game is going to translate to whatever level I'm scouting for it.
[Jason Jacobs] (37:30 - 37:53)
Not exact numbers, but just ballpark. When you are taking kids in, how many of them are committed to NCAA before they get there and how many of them come in uncommitted and for the committed ones. You know, how much interfaces there with the schools and the coaches of those programs and for the uncommitted ones, how much help is there in getting them committed.
[Ryan Kosecki] (37:53 - 39:10)
Yeah, I mean, well, before the, the CHL rule change, you know, almost a hundred percent of our kids in Youngstown were committed before they got there. And now obviously that, you know, that number is going to go down as you're going to see, you know, the schools are going to be a lot more patient and wait to commit kids till they get older. So it's kind of going to go back to like when we play, you know, which at the end of the day is probably a better thing.
I don't know. I'm just thinking. But yeah, we talk with the schools and, you know, we stay in touch with the schools, especially our coaching staff, you know, stays in touch with the schools.
And then as for the kids that are uncommitted, you know, our staff will, our coaching staff, especially, you know, we'll talk with the kids and talk about different options and, you know, but at the end of the day, we stay out of that. We let the agent handle that. We let this, you know, the kid handle that.
And, you know, we might tell them, you know, three or four options that we think it would fit him. But at the end of the day, it's up to the kid. The kids got to go where he likes it and where he thinks is going to be the best fit for him.
And that's his choice and his family's choice and, and the agent's choice. And we tend to stay out of that for the most part.
[Jason Jacobs] (39:10 - 39:18)
And this is more of a logistical question, but, but also what is the role of a GM and what is the role of a coach and how do they work together.
[Ryan Kosecki] (39:18 - 40:20)
Yeah. So, you know, our role as GM's is, you know, to, to draft the players to help solidify the roster through our camps. You know, we made the trades throughout the year and run all the day to day hockey operations.
And, you know, our coaching staff is, is all about coaching and development and systems and skill work and video and analytics. And run the day to day, you know, at the rink and do all the coaching and, you know, they're the ones that have to, you know, implement all the systems and, and, you know, figure out the lines and. And, you know, all that stuff and, you know, handle the adversity and, and, you know, talking with the kids and, you know, all the day to day stuff.
And all the hands on stuff is, is the coaching staff.
[Jason Jacobs] (40:20 - 40:37)
We talked a little bit about it, but, but, you know, with, with the recent rule change. What are the biggest implications of that, you know, for the USHL and for Youngstown specifically and, and are you doing anything materially different because of it.
[Ryan Kosecki] (40:38 - 42:16)
It changed in that now you have a lot more competition. And so, you know, you have to do a better job recruiting. You have to do a better job scouting and.
And you have to give the kids a reason to want to play in Youngstown and, and we think that, you know, we have the best junior organization in, in, in North America and that's our goal is, and that's why we, we want kids that want to play for us. And, and so we have the best ownership group when we have the best support from our ownership group. And they've, you know, take care of our kids and, you know, give our kids what they need to have the best junior career so that they leave Youngstown.
They can look back and say, wow, those are the best one, two, three years of my life. And I became the best hockey player I can be. And so that was our goal before.
And, and so it's just, you know, it became a little bit harder because before very few Americans went to Canada. And now, you know, in this first year we saw, you know, a lot of Americans go to Canada. And so, you know, our job is to recruit kids that want to play in Youngstown and want to stay in Youngstown and that's what we feel like we're doing.
You know, we've, we were tied for the most NHL draft picks the last four years, I believe, in all of junior hockey. And, and so we want to, we want to win. We want to develop kids and we want to turn them into great people.
And we want to have as many NHL draft picks as we possibly can.
[Jason Jacobs] (42:17 - 42:49)
A couple of other random questions on my mind. One is just about accessibility. I mean, the sport's gotten so expensive and there's all these resources you can now get access to, whether it's development coaches, whether it's video, whether it, I mean, even just like ice time or the teams you play on or the tournaments, like every, the gear, like, everything costs money.
Are, are you finding that if you look at the kids that are ending up breaking through and playing the game at the highest levels? You know, do they, do they tend to have access to all the best resources from the earliest ages or can you get there without?
[Ryan Kosecki] (42:49 - 44:44)
I mean, I've never noticed any of that. I do know, even as a parent, you know, that, that hockey is expensive and I also, I mean, hot, like it's, you know, $350 for the top of the line stick now. But, but for some reason, you know, hockey gets a bad name in that aspect and, you know, my daughter's dance, which doesn't, you know, cost $50,000 a month to open the doors like an ice rink does is just as expensive as my son's hockey, if not more.
And, and I talked to my buddies that played travel baseball and their baseball is just as expensive as hockey. So I think it's sports in general and for some reason, you know, hockey gets a black eye and, you know, I, you know, we've had kids, you know, at Fox and, you know, in the junior programs that, you know, have made it from all different, you know, financial levels. But, but yeah, I do know how, how expensive and how ridiculous, you know, it's gotten and, you know, hopefully someday there can be ways to help that.
You know, I just, I don't see it like, you know, it's expensive to own a hockey rink to run a hockey rink. You know, in, in, with travel, you know, when you add in the travel and everything like that. You know, it's, it's an expensive sport.
So, you know, the, you know, that's the one separation. I feel that basketball and football have on the other sports is, you know, it's. But even here about you traveling around the country and basketball and stuff like that.
So I feel like it's all sports. So, and then you add in the equipment and, you know, the equipment's probably the, the most expensive out of all of it.
[Jason Jacobs] (44:44 - 45:21)
So here in New England with the, I mean, the club model is pervasive and I know that that town hockey has, has suffered a lot because of it. If you look at Minnesota as a contrast, right, I mean, everyone wants to play for their, for the local high school and you have all the, all the young kids kind of growing up in the same system like dreaming of one day wearing that jersey on the, on the, on the varsity sheet. So a lot more kind of community oriented.
Were you seeing that the best players are coming from and also do you have a point of view in terms of as you think about growing the game for everybody? What the best way to do that is?
[Ryan Kosecki] (45:22 - 47:17)
Yeah, I mean, the thing I say about Minnesota and like everyone, all you see online every day is how great Minnesota is and how great Minnesota is. And the thing I'd say is, you know, it's kind of a big circle in Minnesota is like Minnesota has by far the most. Hockey players, right?
In the, in the country, like I remember, I think I saw something online a couple years ago, Minnesota had 50,000 and minute Michigan had 20,000. Like you, that's two and a half times more than Michigan. So it's the number one sport in Minnesota.
So that helps it. And then the 95% of the ranks are city owned. So it's all funded by taxpayers.
So the hockey is free or essentially free. And then you have the high school model, right, which of course is great because it's free. So everyone like pumps the high school model, the high school model, the high school model.
Sure, the high school model is awesome. Like, if everyone could do it, it would be great, but it won't work because you try to get a hockey funded. Paid by taxpayers of Michigan, people are going to laugh you out the door, same with I'm sure in Boston or wherever.
And hockey is the number one sport in Minnesota. They do a great job. You know, the high school model is great, but the city funded ranks and some of these are like $50 million city funded ranks.
You know, so that's where I think the two big things that Minnesota has on everybody. The rings are city funded and it's the number one sport. And where I don't know about where you are, but hockey is definitely not the number one sport in Michigan.
No, not here either. And there's more. Yeah, and there's no city funded ranks.
So, you know, at the end of the day, if you had those numbers and you could do the, you know, the town model, you know, that would be great. So.
[Jason Jacobs] (47:17 - 47:24)
So if you could wave your magic wand and change one thing that would best help grow the game, what would it be and why?
[Ryan Kosecki] (47:24 - 47:35)
Oh, God, that's the not a question. I mean, the. First time I'm ever asking that on the show, I think.
[Jason Jacobs] (47:35 - 47:37)
Yeah, I don't know what I thought of it now. Yeah.
[Ryan Kosecki] (47:38 - 49:08)
I could probably name, you know, 10 things is, you know, like, you know, I could probably name, you know, 10 things like. It like we need to grow the sport more like hockey does a terrible job of growing the sport from, you know, the highest levels to the lowest levels. And, you know, it's tough for the majority of our country.
It's not the major sport. And so making it, you know, getting it out to as many people. So once you.
I feel like once people get immersed in hockey, very few people leave because it's such a great sport. The majority of the people are such amazing people. It's such a fun sport.
It's such a competitive sport. It teaches you so much about life and values and team and sticking up for each other. And, you know, you win as a team, you lose as a team, like all those things that you're taught your whole life in hockey are going to help you so much as a, as a, you know, as a parent and as a worker later in life that I wish more people got to experience it.
You know, so if I can make it a magic wand and make it the number ones for in our country and keep growing it and get it in front of as many people as many people's eyes as possible and. Yeah, and that's what I would do to make it. It's the best for the world.
[Jason Jacobs] (49:08 - 49:41)
Last topic on my mind. And that's just a couple of trends that I'm just curious to get your thought on. One is just.
If you look at baseball and Billy Bean and moneyball and and this kind of really data driven approach to find maybe the people that that you know that wouldn't be the obvious stars but that can contribute meaningfully. What do you think about data and its role in the sport of hockey and then directionally where that's heading or where you'd like it to head.
[Ryan Kosecki] (49:41 - 52:36)
Obviously, I used to sell, you know, iceberg, which has now become TPE analytics. So, so I use it. I use it with all my teams.
But I'm also one of those people that like, I don't know, it's kind of like politics for me like when I see people online being like analytics has no place in hockey. I laugh in their face and then the people that think they can kick a team based off of just analytics I laugh at them too. And so, you know, I'm somewhere in the middle like it's, you know, it's like, it's a great thing to for like, there's, it's so hard to score in hockey nowadays.
So, like one of the things I use it for at the youth level is kids think they're not contributing and you're like, look at all this stuff that you've been doing great, even though you're not scoring goals and and having assist. You know, you're doing all these little things great and those things that I can show them on analytics. But yeah, I mean, I definitely use it.
Obviously the eye test for me is always going to be, you know, number one. But then you use the analytics to back up what you're showing, you know, and you can use it to show a kid where he's good and where he's bad and where he needs to get better and kids can always improve in every area. And so, yeah, it's a great thing for me.
Like one thing that I think it's helped a ton is, you know, at the youth 16 level kids are always like, oh, you know, I, you know, I didn't play it all yesterday. And I'm like, really? Well, let's look at this.
And, you know, you played 13 minutes in the top kid played 15 minutes. So now let's see why you only played two last minutes and show him his video in analytics where he's way down here compared to this kid who played two more minutes or four more minutes. And so that's where it's been a, it's quite a senior for me.
Like it's showing kids. Everyone always thinks they played way less than they did and showing them their ice time, you know, has been the big thing for me. So, yeah, I think it has a place.
I don't know. I said it on another podcast or be no other business in the world where people would be like, I don't want, you know, more information for my business. And so, you know, you just got to find out why analytics are important to your team, because based off of your team makeup, the analytics are going to be different.
And what analytics are important, and then go through there and, and also on top of that, like analytics, you know, or like 95% accurate so, you know, figuring, you know, where, where it's lacking a little bit and where it's not and going through there. So, but yeah, I use analytics, I use video every day. I use it, like I said earlier, for scouting for pre scouting for post game teaching for individual teaching for all the junior teams, everything.
[Jason Jacobs] (52:37 - 53:51)
And relatively, I mean, if you look at Black Bear, for example, I mean, you guys have cameras and all the ranks, right. And so, you know, between you guys and live on and whoever it's like now there's all this footage, right. But then to go from having that raw footage to actually isolating.
Here's the learning moments as a team. Here's the learning moments for each player. Maybe here's some example clips of, you know, players that play like you doing it right in the NHL that you can learn from it.
It's just, and then up the analytics too, right? Like, there's so much seems to me, and again, I, you're way deeper at it to me, which is why I'm asking the question, but like, it seems like there's a lot of grunt work, like human just hours of manual, like, cobbling together to try to take that raw footage and get something valuable that isn't, you know, that you don't just have to sit there and watch a full game through, right. And I guess my question is, what are you seeing in terms of the role that technology can play, you know, AI automation, and what do you want to see if anything in the future that would help, you know, make your life easier as a coach or as a GM so that you can deliver the same value to more players and less time.
[Ryan Kosecki] (53:51 - 55:32)
The biggest thing you hit the nail and the head like Black Red TV, for example, like, think of how much time that the Black Red TV breaks down the game and breaks it down for the coach. So then the shifts are broken down, all the plays that happen in the game are broken down, the analytics are broken down. So think of how much time that just saved that coach who has a family, a job, you know, at the youth level.
He has a family and a job. So it just saved him all that time. So now he can go help those kids and spend that time teaching those kids and showing those kids the team video and the individual video.
And so that's where it's made hockey so much better. You know, for the future, I would think being 100% accurate, and then as soon as the game's over, the game's broken down, which I believe there are a couple companies out there now that are using AI. To break down live games.
Have you checked out 49ing at all? Yeah, yeah, 49ing. And so, you know, obviously that's, I don't think you're going to have that at the youth level.
Because I think it's probably pretty expensive for the live, you know, version. But yeah, that's the future is, you know, the games over and your games already broken down. And it's all done by AI and it's 100% accurate and you drive home and then you hop on and look at your game and go from there.
So it's, yeah, that would be my goal for the future. And I'm sure it's right around the corner.
[Jason Jacobs] (55:32 - 55:38)
Well, thanks Ryan. We covered so much ground. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you wish I did or any parting words for listeners?
[Ryan Kosecki] (55:39 - 55:57)
No, I mean, we got the greatest four in the world. And, you know, let's keep making it great and growing the game and not everything I said is right. And it's just stuff that I believe in.
And yeah, it's about it. Thanks for having me. It was an honor.
[Jason Jacobs] (55:58 - 56:13)
Well, thanks for making the time. I learned a lot, which tells me that listeners will as well. So I really appreciate it.
And best of luck to you and Youngstown and Maryland and, you know, all the stuff you're involved in to grow this great game. So thanks, coach.
[Ryan Kosecki] (56:13 - 56:17)
Sure. We'll see each other at the rink with our 13. That's right.
[Jason Jacobs] (56:17 - 56:30)
Thanks for listening to Puck Academy. If you enjoyed this episode, follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share it with someone serious about their game. See you next week.