This episode of The Next Next, hosted by Jason Jacobs, features an in-depth conversation with Ryan Blair, a seasoned hockey professional with a diverse background in playing and coaching. Blair shares insights from his extensive experience, including playing in the ECHL, coaching at various levels, and his current role as Hockey Operations Manager at the Carolina Ice Palace. The discussion delves into the nuances of player development, the importance of maintaining a love for the game, and the challenges of balancing professional aspirations with family life. Key themes include the debate over early specialization in sports, the role of parents in their children's athletic journeys, and the benefits and drawbacks of structured training and specialized coaching.
In this episode of 'The Next Next,' host Jason Jacobs delves into the complexities of athlete development with Ryan Blair, who has extensive experience in hockey from various roles such as player, coach, and hockey operations manager. Ryan shares his journey from playing four seasons at UMass Lowell to coaching in the EHL and ECHL, and ultimately becoming the hockey operations manager at the Carolina Ice Palace. They discuss the different phases of hockey careers, the importance of balance in player development, and the impact of family dynamics on career choices. The episode also explores the benefits and challenges of specialized coaching, the role of video analysis in player development, and the importance of making educated decisions for young athletes.
00:00 Introduction to the Show and Host
00:18 Guest Introduction: Ryan Blair's Hockey Journey
03:12 Ryan Blair's Early Life and Hockey Beginnings
04:36 The Challenges and Decisions in Youth Hockey
13:12 College Hockey Experience and Transition to Professional Play
20:11 Post-Playing Career: Coaching and Operations
24:57 Current Role and Reflections on Hockey Development
33:52 The Importance of Video in Hockey Training
34:23 Implementing Video Sessions for Youth Teams
35:37 Challenges in Providing Individual Attention
36:40 Balancing Skill Development and Decision Making
38:31 Parental Guidance in Youth Hockey
41:27 Team vs. Individual Development
43:15 Future Directions for Charleston Hockey
48:09 The Debate on Specialized Coaching
56:30 Closing Thoughts and Reflections
[00:00:00]
Jason Jacobs: Welcome to the next. Next. I'm the host, Jason Jacobs. This show sorts through the nuances of athlete development, through the lenses of a dad who's sorting through those nuances with my own kids, and also of an entrepreneur who's in the early stages of building a new company focused on player development starting in hockey.
Today's guest is Ryan Blair. Ryan has worn a bunch of different hats in the game of hockey. He played four Seasons at UMass Lowell where he was assistant captain his senior year. He played several years in the pros in the ECHL with the Cincinnati Cyclones, Toledo Walleye, Reading Royals, Orlando Solar Bears, and Wheeling Nailers.
, He did some coaching in the EHL with the Boston Junior Rangers. He was director of hockey ops at his alma mater, UMass Lowell. , He was then assistant coach and manager of hockey ops, and then ultimately head coach for the South Carolina Stingrays in the ECHL before transitioning to his current role as the [00:01:00] hockey operations manager at the Carolina Ice Palace.
Now, this was an interesting one because Ryan's worn so many different hats in the game, and it's a good one for just understanding the trade-offs. Of each different phase of the journey, the sacrifices you make as a player. , The pros and cons of coaching and, and Ryan's current role, which is coming at it from a different angle.
, And as Ryan talks about in the show, it was more lifestyle driven, given that, , you know, a theme I've been hearing from a lot of players is when they get done. Playing the game or even coaching for that matter. They, they just can't keep up with the grind and they love the game and wanna stay a part of it, but, but they gotta be home more for their family.
So at any rate, I really appreciated Ryan's perspective and I hope you do as well. Ryan Blair, welcome to the show.
Ryan Blair: Okay, thanks Jason. Thanks for having me.
Jason Jacobs: Thanks for coming. The first thing I'll say is that I'm really glad that this is a zoom and not in person because I read that you're six foot four and I'm like 5 [00:02:00] 8, 5 9 on a good day. And I feel like it would be a different discussion if it was in person.
Ryan Blair: Yeah, a little bit, but these are the times, so all good. Good to be here.
Jason Jacobs: So I got to you through Hunter Bishop who came on the show recently, and it looks is the, so the relationship, what hunter's the hockey he's like the skills guy and you're like the overall hockey director. For the for the Charleston Hockey.
Ryan Blair: Yeah.
Charleston Youth Hockey Association down here, Charleston, South Carolina Hunter, has been the longtime skills coach for the association. I think it's going on year seven. And I just finished, I'm going into my third season here with with the youth program. Yeah, hunter runs the skills for our program and then he is got his own company called Hunter, Bishop Hockey. So he does skills development year round, but primarily like spring, summer camps, clinics, but unbelievable person and unbelievable knowledge of the game. So we're super lucky to have him here in Charleston.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, he seems great. And that's why like when he, when he suggested I talk to you, like we, like we didn't do a prep call, we're just [00:03:00] doing it live because he was so great. I was like, if Hunter thinks, I should talk to Ryan. But I looked up your background before the show and super interesting.
I mean you, yeah I was left with a bunch of questions, but I also learned a lot. I guess for starters, I read that you grew up in Canada and moved to the Virginia, I think it was when you were 16. And you said that in an interview back in the day, you said that's where you first discovered your.
Love for the game. You ended up playing D one hockey, like you were a four year starter. Like how I was led to believe that my kid who started seven started late. So I guess how did you first get into the sport and what did you mean by that in terms of like what happened from ages, from when you first started skating to age 16?
Ryan Blair: Yeah, for sure. Great question. Growing up in Canada, it seems like everyone loves hockey and is into hockey, and it was no different for me, playing on the ponds and the frozen rinks. But what I meant when I was 16, moving to Virginia was probably like I
Reinvigorated.
with how much I loved [00:04:00] the game.
It was a
Hard time, a 16 year.
From Canada to just outside of dc. So I think it,
It just refueled the love. Didn't really have
other option. Hockey was my outlet.
friends
that I'd be hanging out with on weekends, so it, it was more like that's when I fell back in love with the game.
But
up
The Toronto area till I was 10 and then moved to Montreal.
Montreal.
from age 10 to 16, and then that's when my family and I moved to the us.
Jason Jacobs: Were these hockey moves or family moves?
Ryan Blair: No. Family moves.
Yeah, just family moves. Yeah. My dad's was in the concrete industry. So we moved a decent amount with that.
Jason Jacobs: Nice. It seems like one thing that's happening today that wasn't happening when at least when, when I was coming up to the game, although I'm 49, but it's like hockey moves for the little guys. What do you think about those hockey moves for the little guys?
Ryan Blair: Yeah, those are definitely interesting ones. It's one thing to wanna do what's best for your kid, but it's another thing to, to just make decisions based off ego or what [00:05:00] maybe the parent didn't get or want and living through the life of their own kid. First and foremost, the kid has
driving bus
I think it's gotta be fun for the kid. The kid's gotta want it
at that point. Maybe, parents pressure
but I think in a lot of these situations over the last couple years, it's the parents that are driving the bus and taking their boy or girl to, to different spots that they don't know anything about.
They just do it because they think it's a better situation. So you
see a.
bit of that around here in Charleston, but probably more in, in bigger markets where there's a lot more opportunity. 15, 20, 30 minutes down the road. The closest team to us here is an hour and a half away. So
Jason Jacobs: I, I thought it was the kid driving the bus when the 3-year-old has an Instagram that says Junior's path to the NHL. Parent Monitored. Parent Monitored, yeah.
Ryan Blair: Yeah, exactly.
Jason Jacobs: And what philosophy did your parents have growing up as it related to sports and to hockey specifically?
Yeah.
Ryan Blair: Yeah
my my dad played a little bit of, played junior, [00:06:00] played football
in college. I guess
growing up.
just super supportive. Just let me go out and play and have fun.
Yeah,
would be the would be the biggest word. And I think that's maybe what we're losing a little bit of sight of right now.
And in the hockey world, it is just we need supportive parents and again, I think some of them a little bit and just, there's a lot of misinformation out there that I think hopefully some conversations, things like this will help educate parents especially that aren't in hockey markets or didn't grow up in and around the game.
Yeah, my parents were amazing growing up, and I've got three brothers and we all played a little bit hockey growing up at least till we were 15 or 16. So super supportive, which was extremely helpful.
Jason Jacobs: Where were you in the age pecking order.
Ryan Blair: I was the, I'm the second oldest, so I have one older brother, two younger. I,
Jason Jacobs: Got it. We, I know we haven't gotten too far down the path of your journey, but I mean you touched on something interesting here the chasing versus support. When is it chasing in your mind and when is it support?
Ryan Blair: A great question. I guess as long as they're educated [00:07:00] decisions, but again, there's a lot of misinformation out there, so you might be
To people,
that. They're
they're telling you what you.
to hear, and they're maybe not telling you exactly the way it is or should be. And that's where it gets lost.
And then it, it's just like a game of telephone where the information just gets completely lost from the first person to the fifth. So just trying to educate, have conversations. That's the biggest thing I think, is just making sure that you're doing your homework. If you're gonna try and chase something that you know for sure, or you got a pretty good idea that it's gonna be the right move. But again I don't really know why you need to do that before you're completely dominating at level. Like why do you need to move somewhere to play on this team or that team? If you're having fun and you're developing and you're getting better and you love coming to the rink, there's no need to drive 30 minutes down the road to play for a team That's very similar. if you're the best [00:08:00] player on the team and you have been for years and you need to be pushed a little bit more, that's a different story. But those are few and far between, in my opinion.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, it's just tricky because I feel like there's increasingly it seems like there's camps that are invite only, there's spring teams that are invite only. There's there's rankings there, like the top kids by birth year and all this stuff. And it's if you're not playing at the highest level, like you're not even gonna be considered for any of that stuff.
And if you're not considered for that stuff, then you're losing opportunities for development that, that maybe are better opportunities than you would get if you just stayed where you are. So on the one hand, you're certainly people in your ear saying your kid should play the best level that you can possibly, you know, that they can possibly make at every point.
And if you can ever get 'em on higher, get 'em on higher. And then other people, and a number of them that have come on the show, including you say no what's your rush? If the fruit isn't right, give it another year to bake and it's only gonna make them stronger when they get to the next level.
And you're building a durable house, one, one layer at a time instead [00:09:00] of trying to skip steps. Is it sounds like in your head there's a clear right and wrong on that or is it situation specific,
Ryan Blair: Yeah, I think it's situation, specific case by case basis. But I, I would
say, building that foundation? It's not easy to build.
A really sound foundation. So
I would.
say that if you're comfortable with where you're at and you're being pushed at the appropriate level, is enjoying coming to the rink. The coach is a supportive coach. That's ultimately, that's the one that's leading the player development is your coach and the support staff around that association. The other skills coaches and specialized coaches that your program might have. But I
I think it's
be you gotta dominate where you're at before you're ready to move on and just enjoy the process.
When we're moving kids that are 12, 11 to new teams every year, it's like, how is that kid really gonna understand? The kid has no clue what's going on. It's the parents that are to get him to the best and probably not for
bad [00:10:00] intentions, but
I just don't really see a lot of good in it.
Jason Jacobs: do you do you see any trends as it relates to when you see some of the chasing, does it tend to be parents that didn't grow up playing sports and didn't grow up in the game? Or is it the opposite where it's actually. Parents who played the game at a very high level and are just assuming that if their kids don't do the same, that they're somehow failing.
Ryan Blair: Yeah.
I've seen both. And that's where it gets tough. When they're educated hockey parents or they played at a high level themselves, they feel like they know, and they probably do have a way better understanding than most people and most parents.
So yeah, I've seen
yeah, case by case basis.
but in more than not, I think that they're not making the best decisions. they should focus on continuing to build the proper foundation for the kids so that as they get older, it's a late specialization sport. There's people that start playing the game at [00:11:00] 1213 and end up playing in the NHL.
It's, yeah, there's a crazy rush and everyone has as many skills coaches as possible in their back pocket, and it's just. The kids' heads have to be spinning. They have life outside of hockey too. It's, I just don't see a great benefit for the kid.
Jason Jacobs: When you were coming up in the game, clearly there was the love. Where did goals and dreams fit into the picture, if at all?
Ryan Blair: Yeah, I think wasn't
Wasn't
goals or dreams, I don't think, until I
moved.
And even at that point it was all new to me, the whole college hockey landscape in the us. When I started playing, it was just for the love of the game and have fun and be with friends and go to tournaments on the weekend or holidays and stuff like that.
It was never about playing in the NHL or I had no clue any, anything about division one hockey till I moved to the States when I was 16. And then it was [00:12:00] just of years of learning and luckily I ran into a great coach when I moved to the states. Paul Mulvey, who played in the NHL. and he was a huge piece of the puzzle for me, exposing me to junior hockey. so
yeah, there wasn't.
There wasn't really any dreams, goals really until I started playing midget AAA independent hockey in Virginia, which wasn't the highest level of hockey either. Was probably glorified aa, really good aa, but we were an independent AAA team and we'd go to Jersey, Philly, Pittsburgh, those types of places and play some pretty good talent.
But yeah, no, no real goals or dreams until that point.
Jason Jacobs: And te tell me how juniors fit in and how D one college hockey fit in and also just the timing on all of that. 'cause I know, some kids it seems get recruited and commit and then go to juniors knowing that they're gonna come out and and go play in college for a specific team.
[00:13:00] And other kids, they, they'll go to a year of juniors, they'll hold out for the dream, they'll do another year, maybe they even do a third year. Hoping that a commitment comes about. How did your story play out?
Ryan Blair: Yeah. So I played two years in the North American Hockey League for Texarkana Bandits for John Cooper, actually super lucky to play for a guy like that coming up. and then
I was getting a little bit of college interest,
but
not very much. And.
when after my second year in Texarkana, I decided to make a move up to the Northeast.
Played for Foxboro Stars in the ej. At the time and that's when some of the interest from some of the division one schools came about. There wasn't a crazy amount of interest, but yeah, definitely a late I was my age out. It was my age out year. And I was a recruited walk-on to UMass Lowell.
So definitely the opposite of 15, 16-year-old that commits to, the big time [00:14:00] school and then continues play junior hockey or prep hockey. I committed, I don't remember in the season when it was, but as an age of junior player to UMass level.
Jason Jacobs: And so in the years leading up to that commitment when you were on the cusp of aging out and hadn't committed yet were you still what was that like emotionally? Were you still feeling the joy for the game that you felt in the earlier years, or did you start to feel the stress of it at all?
Ryan Blair: No,
don't
remember feeling much stress or anxiety about the the decision. I
I
that, I'd be able to place some kind of college hockey, whether it was division three or Division one, and that was just, it was just about finding whatever the right fit was. But when there were started getting a little bit more interest with the Division one teams, and I went on a visit to UMass Lowell and loved it.
And that's where the commitment came in. But I don't remember any real anxiety or nervousness towards the decision of where or when or how. I knew I'd at some level just based off the interest from [00:15:00] division three and Division one. I knew that I would be playing somewhere.
It was just a matter of where,
Jason Jacobs: and what's the difference between recruited walk-on and just a recruit? Is it just the scholarship money? Is that the difference or something else?
Ryan Blair: And there, there is, I think, non recruited walk. There's people that walk on without even being recruited. They basically get admitted to the school and then show up and, or get in touch with the coach and show up.
But yeah, I was just no financial
money early on. And then I was able to gain some as I went through.
But it was just their scholarship money was tied up for that first year. And it was more about
opportunity for me. I,
from a depth chart standpoint that I thought I
I wouldn't have a, to get in,
and start playing right away, which is obviously. Really important. For me, I didn't want to go there just to say I was playing division one.
I thought I would have a real chance to play. And I
Jason Jacobs: in
Ryan Blair: out a little bit, but for the most part it worked out the way I had hoped it would. So
Jason Jacobs: financial
Ryan Blair: Scholarship
Jason Jacobs: [00:16:00] initially.
Ryan Blair: just had to earn it.
Jason Jacobs: And that college playing experience was it s still about joy for the game or at that level? And intensity, does it start to feel like a job?
Ryan Blair: I'd say more like a job in college. It's it's very regimented. You're on a, you're on a schedule. Especially I can say that with going back to UMass and working a year in hockey operations, that it's extremely organized players are diligent with what they're doing, what they're putting in their body how they're training when they're training. So it's it's definitely a full-time job when you're focused on your academics too, which they need to be.
Jason Jacobs: Students first.
Ryan Blair: They're athlete second.
Jason Jacobs: I, that's one of the things I, I wrestle with just as a dad, that like I'm an entrepreneur and people that aren't entrepreneurs, which is most of the world, they'll ask me like oh, do you have a lot of work to do on this trip? Or can you just I'm on vaca, I'm on like vacation now.
It's do you have a lot of work to do or can you shut it down? It's like I don't answer to [00:17:00] anybody, so I can always shut it down, but if I don't work. Nothing gets done. And I'm like a one man band, and I'm like, and there's so much headwinds to try to get something off the ground from zero that if I'm not working all the time, if I work all the time, my odds are small.
If I am not working all the time, the odds are minuscule. And what I wonder is in an environment that's very structured and regimented like that, where you have all these handlers around you does that, on the one hand, it breeds good habits. And on the other, if you have all these handlers around always laying everything out for you, do you not learn how to do it yourself and be self-driven in the kind of ways that I'm describing?
I'd love to hear your thoughts on that because I go back and forth just as I think about the right environments for my kids.
Ryan Blair: Yeah,
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. Yeah.
Ryan Blair: It's a great question and I feel like you hear. Guys, when they get out of the game or they graduate college and they're looking for the next opportunity that everything, not that everything was handed to them, but everything was organized for them.
Everything was so structured and when you get outta that structured [00:18:00] environment,
Jason Jacobs: it be real challenge. I think that's where
Ryan Blair: like the mental health stuff I, I hear about comes into play is I used to have
Jason Jacobs: everything,
Ryan Blair: structured. I knew when I had to wake up, I knew when I had to be at the rink.
I knew when I had pre-game meal, I knew when I'd pre-game nap. I knew when I had to get back to the rink for the game at night. I knew where we were going on the bus after. And then when you're out of the game, it's what do I do when do I wake up? What job should I be applying to? What field do I want to get in?
Jason Jacobs: It's like that's where.
Ryan Blair: The challenge and the struggle and it wasn't ever anything real bad, but I definitely struggled with that and it in multiple transitions that I've had since. Getting out of college. And I can totally understand how most I would guess go through that same thing too, where you're living such a structured life and then it's oh, I don't have hockey anymore.
What do I do?
Jason Jacobs: But at the same time,
Ryan Blair: you have to be organized, you have to be structured when you're trying to run a program that you're almost doing the [00:19:00] kids a disservice if you don't have a well-oiled machine. So it's, I'm not sure where those life skills come in or get taught, but yeah, they, the intent is there that it's for the right reasons, but when you're out of it can be a struggle.
Jason Jacobs: So when it was feeling like a job during college did you have the mi because you ended up playing the game for quite a while after school. Did you have the mindset at the time that you were gonna ride it out for as long as you could? Or at any point were you thinking differently than that?
Ryan Blair: No,
Jason Jacobs: I.
Ryan Blair: I knew pretty early on in college that I wanted to try and continue to play where, wherever that might be. And when I say
Jason Jacobs: It felt more like a job,
Ryan Blair: it, the passion and the love for it was still there. It was just much more focused. And when you're playing junior hockey, it's, you go to practice and you go home and you take your online college class, but it's far less structured and organized where it's, when you're playing in college, it's, it did feel more like a job, but I knew that I always wanted [00:20:00] to continue to play whatever level that was.
So yeah.
Jason Jacobs: And it, it seems that there were a number of minor pro teams that you played for after school. There were some desk, it was a desk job stint mixed in. There was a UPS driver stint mixed in. There was director of hockey ops. There was a head coaching job, and in, I think it was the E-E-C-H-L.
You've had a long and twisting. Road. It'd be great to, you don't have to go through it all chronologically, but what are the highlights with the benefit of hindsight that it'd be worth illustrating? And and I guess it'd also be interesting just for you to compare and contrast the some of the diff director of hockey ops and the D one program is very different than head coach in the ECHL, which is very different than being a hockey director for a youth program.
So just the different rhythms and and any advice for assessing fit as former players who wanna stay in the game, are navigating their own paths? [00:21:00] Yeah. So after I played the EC for two and a half years or so, and it was midway through my last year that I was in and out of the lineup a little bit.
I got traded again. Started that year weren't you in like three different states in, in, in three different years? Or maybe it was even more than that. It seemed like you bounced around a lot.
Ryan Blair: My
Jason Jacobs: My first year I started in Cincinnati, then I got traded to Toledo, then I got traded to Redding.
So it was about a couple months in each of those spots. Didn't make the playoff roster in Redding. So went back home. That was a challenge in itself to decide okay I can't really hack it in this league. I got traded three times. I didn't make the playoff roster for Reding at the time.
What am I gonna do? I really keep playing. Like I'm in another lineup a little bit. So that was a hard decision there. I ended up getting connected. The assistant coach in Orlando was a guy that I played with in Cincinnati, and we had a good relationship. So he brought me into Orlando. It was an expansion team at the time, which a little bit easier to get onto one of those.
They're usually a little more hard pressed for recruiting. They don't have
Ryan Blair: the
Jason Jacobs: the support in place [00:22:00] yet. So I got to Orlando had an awesome year there. Loved it. And then they got a new coach. So when I went back, different organization, different setup, got traded to Wheeling West Virginia. And that's in Wheeling, that's where it just shut down for me a little bit.
So I went back home to Virginia to live with my parents. That's when I worked for UPS for a year and a half. Just trying to figure out what I want to do next. Need a little break from hockey. Always loved the thought of being a UPS driver, just being out on my own doors open music on. So that was a fun experience, but realized that I didn't want to do that forever.
And got in touch with the guys at Breakaway Ice Center. And that's, that was my first gig back in hockey.
Ryan Blair: I
Jason Jacobs: actually was running the off ice program for the Boston Junior Rangers youth teams. So I was in the gym there. That's in, at the Cooks Bury Ring. Oh, yeah. Running that gym to start.
And then a couple months into that. The junior coach, rich DiCaprio in the EHL needed some help. Initially it was just gonna be [00:23:00] like assist as needed with hockey stuff, but the focus was gonna be the gym. And then that quickly transitioned into hockey. So I was an assistant coach for the junior team,
Ryan Blair: And
Jason Jacobs: I turned into the head coach for the EHL Premier team.
So they have two, two levels, like EHL. So did that for three years. Did the hockey ops for a year at U level after that. And then after that we did hockey ops here. I went came down here to South Carolina, where I'm still at for an assistant coaching job with South Carolina Stingrays and the ECHL.
I worked for Steve Bergen who's a mask guy. Awesome guy. He had a great team that year. Created an awesome team. We got shut down from COVID, unfortunately that year. And then Bergey went
Ryan Blair: on to
Jason Jacobs: to Sacred Heart. University where he's still at today as an assistant coach and I took over as head coach for a year and a half.
The second year team was struggling and pro hockey wasn't cutting it and it got let go. So decided that was mark led a challenge to challenging time. My wife was eight [00:24:00] months pregnant with our twins and I lost my job. So that was a tough time. Fortunately, I was still getting paid for a couple months, but a really
Ryan Blair: A
Jason Jacobs: tough time to figure out what's next.
We don't have family here in Charleston, so we have a great little friend group, but that was a really tough time, but decided to stick it out. Got into an entry level sales position, basically cold phone,
Ryan Blair: cold emailing
Jason Jacobs: staying remote, which is nice, but. Again not my cup of tea. I wa I watched the employee spotlight that they did on you from that, that sales job.
It, it's your scene from the video, like it was your cup of tea
Ryan Blair: yeah, no,
Jason Jacobs: just being out it. Now I'm back in hockey, it's like
I sit at a desk,
Ryan Blair: and cold call and cold email with,
Jason Jacobs: soft software sales type stuff. Yeah.
Ryan Blair: hockey director position was open here at the rink here, and hunter actually got me connected in there. And yeah I'm still there as the hockey director and I guess. The learning experiences from all the different stops [00:25:00] and all the different people that I've worked with and for just continue to help mold and shape sort of the way I operate today as the hockey director here.
Jason Jacobs: And so as a hockey director what age groups do you work with and also what, ability levels. Is this town hockey and I guess that's another question of just like, how does it work in South Carolina? Is this town hockey? Is it club hockey? Is it yeah.
Just what's the landscape?
Ryan Blair: Yeah. So we hit, we have both, we have a rec league so just house league. We just play within no, no travel at all. And then we've got a club team called the Charleston Junior Stingray. So we're a double a program here. Yeah, there, hockey's healthy in Charleston. Obviously lots of room to grow, but
Jason Jacobs: Hockey director.
Ryan Blair: my, my role is to oversee all of the hockey that goes on at the
Jason Jacobs: So it's from the grassroots stuff like the try hockey for free, the learn to Play program that we run a program called Little Race. Those feed into our house league. House league feeds the travel association. And then we've also got a really healthy adult week here. So [00:26:00] anything hockey related is.
Yes. We, given that you have spent some time in markets like the Massachusetts one where hockey's kind of everywhere what are the differences between working in or playing the sport in a dense market versus a market that's more emerging?
Ryan Blair: Yeah. I think
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, I think working
Ryan Blair: Just
Jason Jacobs: just much more room for growth and education.
It seems like the programs
Ryan Blair: hockey dense markets are typically more refined. Typically people know a little bit more about what they're getting into.
Jason Jacobs: Not always, but there's definitely a big piece of education here and excitement in terms of growth. Getting those kids into the try hockey for freeze for the first time and trying to get into, I work. The stingray, the protein here, like a floor hockey,
Ryan Blair: that they run to try and
Jason Jacobs: get more sticks in kids hands
Ryan Blair: and get them out and
Jason Jacobs: stuff like that.
So I guess more excitement, more education.
Ryan Blair: [00:27:00] on when you're in a market like Charleston.
Jason Jacobs: I, I've noticed that some coaches they really like working at the younger levels where it is more kind of pure joy and experiences versus a job or a grinder. And then there's others that specialize on the opposite end of the spectrum where they only work with like elite, like the roster of clients is like all these studs from the NHL and that's it.
And then there's some that kind of go up and down the spectrum. And it seems like maybe hunter's that way. Given that you've touched all these different parts of the spectrum, do you find that there's a sweet spot for you that you enjoy the most? And why or why not?
Yeah, right now it's a, it is a pretty big spectrum especially in the summer.
There's a handful of pro guys that are here and we've got.
Ryan Blair: the grassroots stuff, so I do enjoy it all. I guess the sweet spot probably for me is. I think I had the most joy and success running the team. When I was the assistant or the head coach with [00:28:00] Rich in the EHL. He was the head coach of the big team, the EHL, and I was the EHL premier team. It just seemed like those kids, like 16, 17, 18, they just seemed to be or maybe I seemed to connect with them or maybe they were able to connect with me better as a guy that played hockey and played at UMass Lowell, which is in their backyard.
I'm not sure the reason why, but I feel like I was able to connect and have some good success there. Pro landscape was unbelievable. Like I loved working at that level. I was hoping to continue to keep pushing and grind through, but, I don't know. I think I was a little bit, maybe, I don't know if soft is the right word, but, maybe not hard enough in terms of making decisions and moving at that at, in the ECHL, you're also the general manager. So you're making roster moves, which wasn't always easy for me to do. So I don't know if that was good, that kind of a blessing in disguise [00:29:00] that I got let go. I wasn't chasing it too long or for too hard. Had a great experience. Still have a great relationship with the president of the team and stuff, so no, no hard feelings. But I think where I'm at now and the age ages that I'm working with are probably more of a better fit for me and just my style.
Jason Jacobs: So it sounds like longer term, maybe getting back in the coaching seat in some form.
Ryan Blair: Yeah, I'm not sure I coached a 10 U team last year. I'm not coaching going into this season. Just not sure that, for, from a family standpoint, if my wife and my little girls wanna move around at all, I might continue to coach here with, within the association. But even that it's hard.
I like the flexibility of not having to be, at the rink for a practice if I truly have something that I feel is more important to do. Whereas when you're a head coach you don't have as much flexibility. It's not run like [00:30:00] a military ship, but at the same time, when you commit to something, you want to fulfill that commitment.
So I had a really hard time with not being there for my team last year because I wanted to be at home and having dinner with my family. Decided this year that I'm gonna step back a little bit, still be in a, an oversight role. Help the coaches as much as I can. Help the players as much as I can, but I'm not. Forced to be there on a Tuesday night in December if my kids are sick or something like that, where when I was the head coach, I felt a sincere obligation to be there and help them. So just a little more flexibility. But yeah, I don't think I'll I don't think I'll get back into sort of like high level, I guess you'd call it, or higher level coaching. We moved back to the Boston area to be closer to my wife's family, I don't, we, we wouldn't go anywhere else other than that, it's just, it's too hard to be somewhere with no family and just starting from square one again, it'd be a real challenge I think.
Jason Jacobs: I'm coming across that a lot as I make the rounds in the hockey world. Players [00:31:00] or coaches or player development people or scouts or, different aspects of the game, but who love the game and wanna stay involved in the game and wanna do purposeful stuff in the game, wanna keep learning and pushing themselves, but also on the family side, just aren't willing to make the sacrifices that are required with young families, given that it's just a, it's a hard life moving and on the road and missed dinners and late nights and, just missing all kinds of memories. And I find I'm even wrestling with that myself. Just in terms of as an entrepreneur I wanna work on the biggest, most ambitious thing that I can. And I'm used to just getting manic and making it my only thing. And just going all out and shutting out the rest of the world.
And my kids are just not at an age where I'm gonna do that yet. I'm starting another company. And that's, I'm having a really hard time [00:32:00] with that. And it, it seems similar, right? Where it's whoa, I love this thing. I don't know I don't know what the answer is for either of us, but but it is a, it is definitely like you're not alone in, in trying to sort through those tensions.
Yeah.
Ryan Blair: for sure. That's and that's the hard part is I feel like when you love something a lot and you're passionate, you wanna continue to
Jason Jacobs: Something,
Ryan Blair: or in your case grow a business or a brand or a product that love and you genuinely about it's hard to find that balance where I think in the role I'm in right now, I can start getting a little bit more of that balance where when you're coaching in pro or you're coaching in high, higher level hockey, college hockey, it's extremely demanding. A lot of time on the road and away from family, but.
Jason Jacobs: I'm sure they have some kind of balance too.
Ryan Blair: too. It just, it's a little bit different.
Jason Jacobs: What do you think about this whole vir like [00:33:00] virtual player development, like the video review or like the Zoom calls to go over shifts and stuff like that? Is. Is there any way that can be done in a way that, that actually like where people can have their cake and eat it too where they can have flexibility and work when they want from where they want but actually get to play an impactful role?
Or do you feel like it's just kind of window dressing and it's a novel concept, but novelty is where it stops? No, I think I mean I love the video aspect of it. I dunno if I'd be able to,
Ryan Blair: to only do that and not be in those social environments where you're face to face and
Jason Jacobs: you're seeing kids that you really care about because they're your kids in your program. I feel like it's a little bit different where
Ryan Blair: just working with
Jason Jacobs: kids random associations that, you love hockey,
Ryan Blair: and you wanna help them get better, but it's not as an invested interest.
But
Jason Jacobs: I do love the video piece.
Ryan Blair: piece of hockey. I think
Jason Jacobs: It's really important
Ryan Blair: [00:34:00] kids,
Jason Jacobs: kids, players of all age to see what they look like on the ice and how they can improve and be better. And
Ryan Blair: the game happens
Jason Jacobs: so fast
Ryan Blair: and you only have so many
Jason Jacobs: practices weak.
Ryan Blair: that
Jason Jacobs: It's a chance to have more individual.
Ryan Blair: attention and learning.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. The video component is huge. I think it'll continue to be a big part of our game, I think for good reason. Do you have cameras on the ranks at, in, in your rink? We have live,
Ryan Blair: barn like I, I think most rinks do. So
Jason Jacobs: so we're doing some video
Ryan Blair: with our travel teams this year. In the first half of the year they'll get
Jason Jacobs: six
Ryan Blair: call 'em, hockey iq,
Jason Jacobs: classroom sessions. And
Ryan Blair: the first time that, that we're doing it across our 14 U and younger birth years.
So we'll have
Jason Jacobs: six session.
Ryan Blair: before Christmas.
Jason Jacobs: Is that video of them or video of NHL players do doing it, right? Yeah, like NL stuff, AHL stuff, ECL stuff, college stuff
Ryan Blair: even
Jason Jacobs: some junior stuff
Ryan Blair: I haven't finalized the presentations yet, but I'll [00:35:00] be running those presentations
Jason Jacobs: 30.
Ryan Blair: In September.
Jason Jacobs: But it'll just be on like foundational
Ryan Blair: concepts or
Jason Jacobs: principles that every hockey play.
Ryan Blair: can use and benefit from.
Jason Jacobs: So it's not
Ryan Blair: like teaching them like
Jason Jacobs: a certain system that they,
Ryan Blair: to play or anything like that. It's just more like foundational
Jason Jacobs: this is what all five players should be doing. When it comes
we'll probably talk about
Ryan Blair: DZ zone coverage, like
Jason Jacobs: the basics of.
Ryan Blair: zone coverage, to defend one-on-ones, like concepts and foundation type stuff.
We'll see how that stuff
Jason Jacobs: Goes. But I do think it's it's important for it. It'd be ideal if we could get shifts. Them
Ryan Blair: and
Jason Jacobs: I think has
Ryan Blair: kind of features, but it's also a bandwidth thing for me. Like I can't break down every player's
Jason Jacobs: even team shifts like
Ryan Blair: need someone.
Jason Jacobs: potentially on staff or a company that can just
Ryan Blair: unload that
Jason Jacobs: information to
Teams and coaches, [00:36:00] which I know they have that out there. And I know
Ryan Blair: You reached out to me about Mike Jameson and 49 in there and
Jason Jacobs: I had a conversation
Ryan Blair: with him about potentially doing something like that and we're just, not in a
Jason Jacobs: position
Ryan Blair: to do it right now
Jason Jacobs: financially, but something like they, they integrate with
Ryan Blair: bar.
They can clip shifts
Jason Jacobs: for kids.
Ryan Blair: They can clip DZ zone shifts only for kids. Scoring. Like the list is endless. Like the work they do is unbelievable.
Jason Jacobs: And I know there's other companies that do
Ryan Blair: That do the
Jason Jacobs: the same, just
Ryan Blair: a matter of
Jason Jacobs: cost for our families. But putting that on and actually see the benefit,
Ryan Blair: or is it just the smoke and mirror stuff is
Jason Jacobs: Hey, here's your kid, and what are they gonna do with that? When it comes to individual players if you look at a game, I've found that there's some players who the, like you would say, oh, they've got good iq.
They make good decisions. They understand the game, right? And then there's others where it's oh, they're skilled, but their decision making isn't a sound. Or they don't see the ice well or [00:37:00] whatever. And even the same thing with teams. Some teams like their breakouts just feel crisp, right?
And others like it. It just it feels everything's lost in translation. Everything's like a step behind or a step ahead and just fumbling and sloppy. How much of that is like you're born with it or you're not? And how much of that can be taught.
Ryan Blair: Yeah, I think I, I think you
Jason Jacobs: Definitely there's players or athletes in
Ryan Blair: general that
Jason Jacobs: are born with those types of
Instincts. I think it can be taught
Ryan Blair: I think it's probably
Jason Jacobs: better done in smaller groups and maybe with the help of
Ryan Blair: of video
Jason Jacobs: and over the course of a decent amount of time,
Ryan Blair: But
Jason Jacobs: it's very hard to teach. I think. There's just so many layers to decision making and trying to instill that in kids
Ryan Blair: in
Jason Jacobs: such a ing it's a lot different than.
Ryan Blair: put the puck in
Jason Jacobs: Strong side hip hop, that handle,
Ryan Blair: down the ice. [00:38:00] Okay
Jason Jacobs: he's skilled at that, but then you make hockey decisions on
Ryan Blair: on
Jason Jacobs: the ice. It's just,
Ryan Blair: whole different dynamic.
Jason Jacobs: so I think it can be taught, I think
Ryan Blair: there's
Jason Jacobs: players out there that are
Ryan Blair: of those natural instincts. But
Jason Jacobs: but I've heard the other debates too, that you can't teach it. You either have,
Ryan Blair: or you don't.
Jason Jacobs: I think,
Ryan Blair: can teach
Jason Jacobs: decisions,
Ryan Blair: It just takes a little bit longer than a normal, skill of skating or stick handling or shooting. They all take practice.
Jason Jacobs: Where would it fit in your priority list when you think about developing, young players. 'cause there, there's such a wide range of things you can work on now. You can work on your edge work, you can work on your shooting, you can get in the gym, you can dial in nutrition, you can talk to a mental performance coach.
You can do small group battles, you can play on tournament teams. You can like, whatever you want. Like someone will take your money for whatever it is you want. But like, how do you balance all of that? Where does Multisport fit in? Do, [00:39:00] if the kid loves it and never wants to shut it down, do you force them to shut it down?
I find trying to s steer the kid on the right path is a confusing journey. Just given all the conflicting opinions and f and and F and F fear and fomo, that's getting thrown at parents. Across the board. Yeah. There's definitely a lot out there. I guess to touch on, like the hockey IQ stuff, I think it's
Ryan Blair: the
Jason Jacobs: kid needs to be able to make a decision.
Ryan Blair: and it's hard. You can't do that in a one coach, one player. Type setting that's more like the individual skills of passing, shooting, handling, skating.
Jason Jacobs: So you need like a small group that ain't almost like physicians specifically
Ryan Blair: or like situation specific like offense or defense scenario specific almost. You definitely need a handful of kids on the ice to have those decisions. I think it's
Jason Jacobs: probably better
Ryan Blair: in a true
Jason Jacobs: team environment where you have a [00:40:00] knowledgeable
Ryan Blair: that can develop
Jason Jacobs: player
Ryan Blair: In
Jason Jacobs: terms those,
Ryan Blair: real player development skills and not necessarily like the team skills.
Jason Jacobs: In terms of steering. I think parents definitely need to, it's
Ryan Blair: it's the
Jason Jacobs: kids don't, some of the kids will be they're actually
Ryan Blair: hurting themselves by
Jason Jacobs: on the ice,
Ryan Blair: 24 7 and going to every single tournament and trying to get on the ice with every single skills coach in the world. I think there has to be a,
Jason Jacobs: kind of
Ryan Blair: of parameters around. What the kid can,
Jason Jacobs: you.
Ryan Blair: do, what they should be doing.
Jason Jacobs: But again, that's really education.
Ryan Blair: and knowledge needs to come in of
Jason Jacobs: what this
Ryan Blair: really need to work on?
Jason Jacobs: might go to
Ryan Blair: this shooting coach, but he already shoots the puck really well.
He needs to go to this coach or do that thing or,
Jason Jacobs: and spring summer stuff is also
Ryan Blair: I think you gotta
Jason Jacobs: pick your spots. Again, education. Understand where you going.
Ryan Blair: what, why are you going? So you have to have some kind of like intent there. [00:41:00] If it's just to go have fun,
Jason Jacobs: That's it. Enjoy new city. Cool. If you think you're going somewhere to, to have a chance to play for that coach at later date, play
Ryan Blair: or play for that level
Jason Jacobs: team at
Ryan Blair: later date, I think you just have to make sure you understand and know what you're getting into as a family and as a player.
Jason Jacobs: how much of development should come from the team itself and how much should come outside of formal team activities. And similarly what is a, like where, what does a player development coach and what does a team coach and how much of a player development, like how much player development should a team coach be taking on?
So I guess that's the same question asked two, two slightly different ways. Yeah.
Ryan Blair: Yeah,
Jason Jacobs: I guess Coach's job is.
Ryan Blair: to develop the players at whatever level that may be. Like the coach's job should be to push the players, to their highest level of ability. So that's, I guess like the player development piece. I
Jason Jacobs: [00:42:00] I think a lot of it has to be done with
Ryan Blair: within the of a team so that they can understand Otherwise, small group stuff is usually what I'll try and do within a
Jason Jacobs: a similar group skill. You can't teach, you can't, it's just a lot harder approach.
Ryan Blair: and for the players.
Jason Jacobs: You usually try like skill,
Ryan Blair: groups together.
Jason Jacobs: So it definitely
Ryan Blair: player development can happen for sure in
Jason Jacobs: situations. I think they also need to,
Ryan Blair: happen the confines of a team.
Like how are
Jason Jacobs: are you gonna use the skills you learned
Ryan Blair: with that
Jason Jacobs: from that coach within your team? Ultimately
A team
Ryan Blair: game, so you have to be able to apply those
Jason Jacobs: you.
Ryan Blair: you learned from your
Jason Jacobs: Player, development coach, whatever, it's into your team, same with a mental coach. How are those help you
Ryan Blair: be a
Jason Jacobs: a better athlete or be, mentally stronger,
Ryan Blair: [00:43:00] and not,
Jason Jacobs: crumble under pressure?
How do you respond
Ryan Blair: mistakes? Like you need to understand how you're actually gonna use those
Jason Jacobs: tools, how they're
Ryan Blair: you be more
Jason Jacobs: equipped.
Ryan Blair: for
Jason Jacobs: How
Ryan Blair: gonna be on your team the next.
Jason Jacobs: so I guess coming back to Charleston Hockey, you mentioned that there's some improvements that are coming this year and you're trying some things for the first time. You also mentioned that there's things you'd wanna do, but your budget constrained. How where do you wanna take the program directionally and and how do you determine what improvements make the cut and what ones, which ones don't from year to year?
Ryan Blair: Yeah,
Jason Jacobs: I think in terms of improvements typically, like parent survey or conversations within the rank of what works, what doesn't, what do you like, what do you not like? That, that's definitely a piece that comes into it. At the end of the day,
Those are our customers and wanna make sure they're happy with the products.
Ryan Blair: that we're providing.
Jason Jacobs: So I guess that feedback is pretty important in terms of the next,
Ryan Blair: season's planning.
For
Jason Jacobs: Like [00:44:00] the mission or where we wanna be. Just continue to have it be a positive, fun place for kids to come and play. It's the end of the day. That's really what it should be about is
Ryan Blair: to the rink and having fun.
Jason Jacobs: that's why
Ryan Blair: gets into hockey in the first place, and
Jason Jacobs: I don't think we wanna be excited that
There's been a push, especially at this kind of immediate and not in Charles.
In Carolinas to get some more aa programs going. I don't see us chasing that. I think it's a chase right now. We need to be a lot stronger and better overall from top to bottom as the program.
Ryan Blair: I think before we,
Jason Jacobs: We try that.
Ryan Blair: and get after
Jason Jacobs: So I guess just continue to push forward, continue to make our kids, better hockey players, better people.
Make it a fun,
Ryan Blair: safe place to come.
Jason Jacobs: yeah it seems like one of those, be careful what you wish for things, because if you want to build a stronger team, then maybe you pull from a wider geography and if you pull from a wider geography, it means more, [00:45:00] more grind and travel for each family. But then it also means when you go to form a schedule, it's more time on airplanes and missing school and stuff where it, it almost seems I don't know.
I've heard stories. I'm not close to it. You. No better than me, but it seems if you wanna play on a high level team in a market that's not dense, it's really hard for that to be compatible with traditional school. Yeah, for sure.
Ryan Blair: And you, and then you see the, these like weekend models pop up. And
Jason Jacobs: Player development, I just don't really see
Ryan Blair: how that is beneficial either.
Jason Jacobs: you playing a higher level team on weekends, but then you're not practicing at a higher level.
Ryan Blair: all week either.
So
Jason Jacobs: don't,
Ryan Blair: see how that. Benefits the kid truly down the road.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, definitely don't wanna be trying to chase. So
Ryan Blair: that we're not and we're definitely not program right now.
Jason Jacobs: there's a lot of work to be done before, and again, it's the players moving, players up the ladder. You should [00:46:00] be the best at that level before you.
Ryan Blair: you try and move up. No different for us. Like we need to be much, much stronger top to bottom before we even consider trying to do that. Because feel like it'll come back to, to bite us if we make the jump too early. And then again, it's like why are you playing? Why are you
Jason Jacobs: Trying to Bea '
Ryan Blair: cause everyone else is, and that's how you're gonna get more players there and that's how you're gonna grow the program. And it's
Jason Jacobs: I could see it the opposite way too. You start, you can try and go
Ryan Blair: and then next thing you know, you're just
Jason Jacobs: everything.
Ryan Blair: have here and. You're not really growing and then there's more
Jason Jacobs: Separation.
Ryan Blair: and it's, yeah. So
Jason Jacobs: That's a whole, that's a whole
Ryan Blair: different beast talking about, we could probably talk for a whole hour with a whole bunch of people and talk pros and cons of
Jason Jacobs: aaa. Or when it right to go aaa. Why do you even go to,
Ryan Blair: aa, why do
Jason Jacobs: you have to play triple?
Ryan Blair: play AAA hockey?
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's like they all end up in beer [00:47:00] league eventually, right? Isn't that the same? Yeah. So if you could wave your magic wand and and grant any wish as it relates to the the program there in Charleston what would you wish for or what would you change?
Ryan Blair: That's a
Jason Jacobs: Great question. I guess I probably should have thought of this before, but I didn't even know I was gonna ask it, so it, you couldn't have thought of it. Yeah. I'd say trying, especially in Charleston, just trying to get more kids playing it's obviously a challenge. They need to look, so even if they follow here, they have to go through it
Ryan Blair: they have to go through
Jason Jacobs: three levels of our landscape program before they, so again, like trying to find a way to break down some of these barriers.
Cost is definitely one
Ryan Blair: that
Jason Jacobs: to
Ryan Blair: to lower
Jason Jacobs: go away.
Ryan Blair: if I have a magic wand. But
Jason Jacobs: At the end of the day, it's just more kids playing hockey.
So growth
Ryan Blair: Growth and
Jason Jacobs: and retaining those players too, like giving them a positive experience [00:48:00] so that they wanna come back. So I guess those are the two, just lowering the barrier.
Ryan Blair: And just trying to retain 'em as long as we can.
Jason Jacobs: So I think the last thing I want to touch on is just closing the loop on some different topics we've covered or converging them and that is, you talked about how it became a job when you got to college. You talked about how people, hockey is a late blooming sport where you can start late and then conceivably still make it to the NHL.
And we've talked about the importance of keeping it fun and and not chasing it seems if you look at who's making it to even the D one ranks today, let alone. The pros, a lot of these kids, it was a job since they were little guys. And that it seems to be the way that not just hockey but all sports is moving and not just sports to be honest instrument playing or choir or acting or everything seems to be like a job earlier and pushing towards year round and pushing towards mastery.
Do you, there's one school of thought that says the world's [00:49:00] getting so much harder and if that's what you need to do to make it like, don't even bother and just enjoy it and play the long game in terms of life path and having a good childhood and things like that. But do you actually think from a development standpoint that, that does set these kids up on a better path to make it or is that even in, in question?
Ryan Blair: Yeah, I'm,
Jason Jacobs: That's a tough one for sure. There's definitely. First person coaches at what age?
Ryan Blair: I'm not
Jason Jacobs: Mature. There, there's definitely room where I think you just have to pick your spots of who you're working with, how often you're working with it. I think something that you said important though, like these life skills and how they, at some point they're not gonna be playing hockey and unfortunately this, the stats show that very few kids make it to the NHL or pro hockey in general.
So what are as association as hockey people, as parents, help these [00:50:00] kids understand that it's way more than,
Ryan Blair: hockey and they have to understand
Jason Jacobs: a lot of these, you're just,
Ryan Blair: it down every kid's throat that
Jason Jacobs: they need to do this, that, this, and that's they're at some point they're not.
Ryan Blair: gonna enjoy it anymore.
So
Jason Jacobs: I think the fun has to come first and.
Ryan Blair: And then if the kids
Jason Jacobs: Pushing for it and wants it, and it's still having
Ryan Blair: fun and can
Jason Jacobs: advantage. These different specialized coaches, within the rest of their life and family dynamic.
Ryan Blair: Then sure. But
Jason Jacobs: I don't think you have to have specialized coaches to become,
Ryan Blair: a good hockey player either.
Jason Jacobs: if you have a good coach and you often drink and you work hard, you're probably gonna get better. Do at what point do those specialized coaches
Ryan Blair: become too much noise for these kids? How can they handle all that information at this age? I don't know the answer
Jason Jacobs: questions? Does a 10-year-old even have the capacity to
Ryan Blair: to
Jason Jacobs: put those things in different and know
Ryan Blair: when to
Jason Jacobs: when to [00:51:00] use those techniques and those shooting?
Ryan Blair: techniques that they learned from their coaches within the context of the game?
I don't think so. They're still gonna become better hockey players by having them, but
Jason Jacobs: Are they needed?
Ryan Blair: I don't know.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. That, that's some of the stuff that I'm in the early stages of sorting through, because if you look at what the, like what you had access to when you were at New Mass, Lowell, or in the minors, right? With all these, experts and handlers and structure, right? If you can look at some of the kids coming up in the game and it's wow.
They're so good. And then you look at what program they followed, what expertise they had around 'em, what opportunities they had. And it's oh, like it makes more sense. And it's like, all right, how do you package that in a way that is more accessible to others, both from an education.
Standpoint to even want it, but also at a price point that's more affordable. And what role can [00:52:00] technology play? That's some of the exploration, but there's another part of it, which is like a check and balance of yeah, but at what point does it become detrimental? At what point does it become overkill?
Like at what point does it become a crutch? Like just let the kids be kids. Let the kids play. Like actually the creativity and freedom and lack of structure is gonna in the long term. So it's, it's one of the reasons I'm not rushing a building. Back to your point of what am I building?
It's one of the reasons I'm not in a rush to build is that I really wanna pressure test the worldview because I want the, I don't just want it to be tech. I want it to have a strong worldview that the tech is working to fulfill that's well defined and. I don't wanna define it and then get three or six months, or 12 months or two years down the path and be like, oh, like it was actually defined in a way that wasn't right.
And so even though we fulfilled the promise of what we set out to define, we, we're doing it wrong, we're part of the problem. Like that would be the nightmare. Yeah. So it's and some of these answers are not, I don't know, like it's it's a real gray area for me and it's, and that's why I'm really relishing the chance to unpack it and sort through it.[00:53:00]
Yeah. Yeah, sure. That's, and
Ryan Blair: and forth too. It's
Jason Jacobs: I love working with kids on the ice, and obviously part of it is like, there's some financial stuff to it too. You run private lessons or you run small groups, you run,
Ryan Blair: or you run camps and clinics, that person
Jason Jacobs: makes money, which is great, but I love working with kids
Ryan Blair: at all ages,
Jason Jacobs: But at some point it's
Ryan Blair: are,
Jason Jacobs: am I really helping them in the way that they.
That I want to be helping them, or is this just like with them to get better and having some kind hockey skill that maybe doesn't really even matter. There's just, yeah, there is a lot of gray, and I think there is such a need for some specialized coaches because it's more focused, it's more intense,
Ryan Blair: of
Jason Jacobs: what the kids need to understand.
If they do want to play at higher,
Ryan Blair: levels.
But yeah, it's
Jason Jacobs: it's definitely great.
Ryan Blair: area
Jason Jacobs: There's no perfect [00:54:00] answer. Yeah. So I think the people that say every, and this is not just a hockey lesson, it's just like a parenting lesson. Like everyone's pa like every path is different. And just know your kid and if you have two kids, or three kids, or five kids like you, you'll have to parent differently for each one of those kids.
I, I just had, luke Strand came on the show from Minnesota State and one of the things he was talking about, 'cause he talks about like expectations and the brand and what the program stands for and stuff. And then he talks about how everyone's different and personalization, and it's like how do you like, like how do you protect the brand and hold everyone to the same standard and yet still allow for that personalization, right? And it's, it like that's the challenge. Like it's, it's, your isn't a clear answer. The answer is it's a constant tension and you have to manage through it and do the best you can, right?
No, yeah.
Ryan Blair: It's crazy. I could think back
Jason Jacobs: Five, 10 years ago, like a lot of this stuff was scratching the [00:55:00] surface. Like we
Ryan Blair: I didn't have any skills coaches growing up. And that,
Jason Jacobs: I think that's where people have time too. It's Hey, I made it to the NHL didn't.
Ryan Blair: didn't have any of this.
Jason Jacobs: I put my bag away all summer and I made it to the joke like that. I'm not talking to me, obviously, but that's, there's a lot of people that, that was their story. So now it's really hard to start understanding why do we need,
Ryan Blair: all this? And then
Jason Jacobs: but you see the benefit of how much better that kid got over the course of the year that he wouldn't have done if he didn't do that training with that,
Ryan Blair: coach or that group. It's it's, yeah
Jason Jacobs: that's, yeah. Yeah. And that, and then it's just because it's it's a bad analogy, but it's like some of these weight loss drugs, it's it feels like a shortcut, right? And then it's alright, you take the shortcut, you get these results.
Like, why wouldn't everyone do that? It's yeah, but what are the side effects? What are the long term consequences? And I'm not suggesting there are any, I don't know anything about these weight loss drugs, right? But it, it it reminds me of similar. It's like, if I just want my kid to get better, [00:56:00] here's all those things I could do.
It's yeah, but what kind of lesson are you teaching that kid for life? What kind of sacrifices are you making as a family, right? What are the things that, that's cutting into in terms of like friendships or memories or fun or school or like other things that actually like, like that if you, if that kid had agency, would he be making the same choices?
And yeah. So I don't know. I don't know the answer, but but yeah some answers we'll never know either. It's it's like one of the mysteries of life is that we're all, we're all just figuring it out as we go. Yeah. Yeah. This is awesome. I won't take more of your time, but just anything I didn't ask that you wish I did or any parting words or advice for listeners?
No, I think this was awesome. Thanks. Thanks a lot for having
Ryan Blair: me. It's always
Jason Jacobs: fun.
Ryan Blair: to talk hockey
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Ryan Blair: from other people and
Jason Jacobs: Great. Thank you very much for, thanks for coming on, Ryan. Really great discussion. Thank
Ryan Blair: Yeah, thank you.
Jason Jacobs: Thank you for tuning in to the next, next. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did and you haven't already, you can subscribe from your favorite [00:57:00] podcast player, whether it's Apple, Spotify, or any of the others. We also send a newsletter every week on the journey itself. The new content that we publish, the questions that we're wrestling with, how the platform itself is coming along, that we're planning to build for player development, and where we could use some help.
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