In this episode of 'The Next Next,' host Jason Jacobs delves into the complexities of athlete development with guest Pete Gintoli, an assistant coach and teacher at Tabor Academy with a rich background in hockey. The conversation explores how Pete's journey from a dedicated player to a prominent coach shapes his approach to developing young athletes. Topics include the challenges and nuances of coaching, the role of parents in player development, and the importance of multi-sport participation. Pete also shares insights on innovative coaching tools and techniques such as video analysis and analytics to refine players' skills. The episode offers valuable perspectives for aspiring athletes and their families aiming to navigate the intricate landscape of sports development.
Player Development Insights with Tabor Academy Assistant Coach Pete Gintoli
In this episode of The Next Next, host Jason Jacobs dives into the world of athlete development with guest Pete Gintoli, an assistant coach and teacher at Tabor Academy. The discussion covers Pete's unique background, his transition from player to coach, and his experiences in various coaching environments including junior hockey, college, and prep school. The conversation highlights key aspects of player development, the balance between academic and athletic pursuits, parental involvement, and the state of youth hockey in New England. Additionally, Peter shares insights on using video analysis as a coaching tool and offers advice to aspiring athletes and their families.
00:00 Introduction to the Show and Host
00:54 Introducing Today's Guest: Pete Gintoli
01:25 Peter's Background and Early Career
02:00 Peter's Coaching Philosophy and Experiences
02:23 How Peter Found Tabor Recruit Chase McCoy
04:09 Peter's High School and Junior Hockey Path
08:46 Transition to College Hockey
10:11 The Role of Multi-Sport Participation
16:41 Peter's Professional and Coaching Transition
32:22 Insights on Academy and Online Schooling
39:01 Encouraging Kids to Keep Improving
39:56 Balancing Schoolwork and Sports
41:35 The Importance of Structure and Discipline
43:59 Navigating the Hockey Path
46:04 Recruiting and Player Development
48:58 Role of the Assistant Coach
50:17 Player Development Tools and Techniques
57:46 State of New England Hockey
01:02:33 Balancing Development and Competition
01:18:14 Final Thoughts and Advice
Jason Jacobs: [00:00:00] Welcome to The Next Next. I'm the host, Jason Jacobs. This show sorts through the nuances of athlete development, specifically focused on new sports. I'm coming at it from the perspective of a founder who's potentially building my next company in this area, specifically building a digital platform to help.
Kids and families navigate their player development journey, but also as a sports dad. These are complicated topics and there are black and white ones that are easy rights and easy wrongs, but there's a bunch of gray area and I know that it's challenging for me to sort through and maybe it's challenging for some of you to sort through as well.
So this show brings on experts from a wide range of backgrounds and perspectives. I'm inquisitive. Ask lots of questions, try to inform my worldview on these topics, and. Help, help you inform your worldviews as well. Today's guest is Peter Gintoli. Uh, Peter is assistant coach [00:01:00] and a teacher at Tabor Academy and, uh, came to Tabor from Canterbury School where he served as an academic counselor, as well as assistant coach and lead recruiter for boys varsity ice hockey.
There. Was director of Men's Ice Hockey operations at Yale University for two seasons and played for four years at Salve Regina, where he had a great career as well as spending some time in the pros. I was excited for this one because Peter's got such an interesting background. Um, he had a great playing career and actually knew.
While he was in juniors before he got to college, then he wanted to coach, which I found fascinating. And we talked about how that came about, why that came, about his transition into coaching, some of the varied experiences he's had. He's been in the academy world, he's been in the division one college world.
He has been. In the prep school world. So he's already seen so much and he's got strong [00:02:00] opinions as well. Uh, opinions on video analysis, opinions on single sport versus multi-sport. He's seen a lot in terms of the role of parents, a in in their kids' journeys and the right ways and wrong ways to do that.
And we talk about all of that and more.
Okay, Peter Gintoli, welcome to the show.
Peter Gintoli: Thank you for having me.
Jason Jacobs: Thanks for coming. I got to you, I believe through Kevin McCoy because he was a guest on the show and we had a great chat and and I guess his his son Chase is gonna play for you next year.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah. Yeah. I met Chase, I think it was two and a half years ago now. Had just finished working in college and I had just taken a prep job. And I was at a camp and we're doing small area games at the end of the practice and there's this, this little ki this little guy, he wasn't really that little, but he just dropped his knee down and really hit a puck.
And I was like, whoa, who's this kid? So, stayed in touch throughout the years. I think I met his grandparents that day. I don't think his dad was there. Stayed in [00:03:00] touch and I think we've built somewhat of a good relationship and he feels comfortable about coming to Tabor and we have a good thing going and we're really excited to get him.
I think. It's been a really good connection so far. I'm excited for, for Chase to come in and, and help our group. So, yeah, no, it's it's a good, it's a small world. And it's been great getting to know, getting to know the McCoys and they have a Massachusetts connection too, so this is almost like coming home for them and I'm excited for, for Chase and everybody that's coming in play for Tabor next year.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. Yeah. And I had I, I think, I think Kevin told you, or I told you when we chatted before the show, but I had known Kevin A. Long time professionally, but I had no idea. He grew up playing hockey and I had no idea that that he was so involved in the game now and that he, had clubs and tournament teams and.
Camps and was a crazy hockey dad and was reading books and all the stuff, and and it's like the Jeep wave or something. It's like, it's [00:04:00] like, oh, you're part of that tribe. Like, hello, we have a lot to talk about buddy. So, so it was nice to yeah, to, to make that new connection with, with an old friend.
But but getting back to you your path is interesting to me because in, in my prep, it, it looks like you had a great career division three and that if you call being a student athlete a career, which I guess is another question, right? Or thing we can talk about. But but then you, you headed into coaching and you already in your I don't wanna say short career because you've been working for a number of years, but but you have a lot of career left in, in, in front of you. You've knock on wood and you've already done a bunch of varied things. You've been in the academy side, you've been in prep you've done coaching and club.
You you were in hockey ops for a D one program in college, and and now you're back in, in prep. So, so you've seen a lot both as a player and as a coach, and I'm excited to to, to explore all of that because there's a lot to learn there.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, no, I've had, I've had quite the [00:05:00] journey and I think we found our landing spot for a while here, but. I, I, I attribute everything I've learned from all of my own experiences and then certainly learning from other people as well. So, yeah, I'm, I'm more than willing to dive into anywhere you need to go here, whether it's my playing career or now my coaching career, or even my teaching career, which just started last year.
So,
Jason Jacobs: No. And, and they all dovetail. Right? Oh, and, and now you're also a dad, right?
Peter Gintoli: yep, yep. Yeah. we have,
Jason Jacobs: So there's a whole other, whole other angle. Right. But I guess for starters, how did you get introduced to the game
Peter Gintoli: yeah, I think I'm, I'm one of four kids. I'm number three, so, my older brother and my sister I think my older brother wanted to start playing hockey around eight or nine years old, so he was a little older when he started. And I was four at the time, so, we all, us three, we started playing hockey together
Jason Jacobs: and where was this? Where'd you grow up?
Peter Gintoli: this, so, sorry. Yeah. I grew up in Monroe, Connecticut, which is in Fairfield County. I started playing hockey at the Wonderland of Ice in Bridgeport, Connecticut.
Just sounds like an awesome place to play hockey. But [00:06:00] yeah, we started playing there, micro hockey and all three of us did it together.
So, and then I think from there we just became super competitive and we just, we just found a passion for the game of hockey really, really early. And we all went our different ways. I think that's, that's normal in hockey. Everybody has a different path, especially since my brother was starting at nine years old and I'm starting at four, so I don't wanna say I got a head start, but I certainly was able to learn things at an earlier age and, and he learned very quickly and he was a good player himself.
So yeah, we, we started there and, we bounced around from, from youth programs specifically trying to stay close to home 'cause mom's trying to tackle four at once. And she did a tremendous job of, of making sure we all got to go where we needed to go. And, and then once we got to high school, it was, we were more or less not, we were more or less on our own. And they prepared us for that. So,
Jason Jacobs: Were, were you now, what what, what path did you take for high school? Were you public or prep?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, so I, I, I, when I became a squirter peewee, I started to elevate my game and I, I jumped [00:07:00] into, for lack of a better term, AAA hockey. And I played for a program called the Connecticut Clippers. And we were the team that got beat on quite a bit. But I got to play a ton.
I touched the puck a lot. I was one of the better players on the team. And then when I got to high school, I made a decision to move to a better program called the Brewster Bulldogs at the time which are now called the Westchester Express.
Jason Jacobs: So that, so that was I'm still learning all the lingo because my oldest is 13. Is that, is that club, is that juniors? Like what is that?
Peter Gintoli: yeah. So the Westchester Express at the time, that was, that was a club team. It was AAA team for the four 13 U and 14 U level.
Jason Jacobs: And that, that was a year round program. Not year round, like, it was, it was not, not split season.
Peter Gintoli: yeah, it was a full season
team. And, and I made the conscious decision at the time. I went to a Catholic high school called Notre Dame Fairfield. And the team was stacked. I think, I think we went to the state championship three outta the four years while I was there. They won my freshman year. But I decided to play for my full season team instead. I just, I was gonna get more playing time and, and, just [00:08:00] developmentally, I probably needed that year. I was physically pretty big kid as a freshman. I grew pretty early, but you
know, those
Jason Jacobs: tall are you now?
Peter Gintoli: I, I'm five nine. I'm not, I'm not a, I'm not a world beater.
I'm not
Jason Jacobs: the, that's the way he was going early, right?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah.
And, and. I was probably five seven going into freshman year pretty, for, for
high school, that's a pretty good sized kid. And there's just seniors and juniors that are just way miles ahead of me physically. I just wasn't gonna jump those guys.
So, I think my dad just looked at me and was like, Hey, you're gonna play a lot more here and you're gonna play really good competition, kids your age, let's do this. You can still go to the high school. And I was able to make friends and play, do my own thing, and then came in sophomore year and really hit the ground running. And had a nice high school career which pushed me to junior hockey, then pushed me into college. So, no, I, I, I really enjoyed that time playing AAA hockey and then making my path into high school, which was really competitive at the time. I don't know if, if, public school or Catholic school hockey is, is as strong as it used to be.
I think [00:09:00] there's just so many paths with academies and prep schools and all these places that have really high level hockey. It's just really tough, to, to stay there if you're a good player. So.
Jason Jacobs: So did, did you did you end up playing high school hockey?
Peter Gintoli: I did, yeah, I played three years at Notre Dame Fairfield. We went to the state championship my sophomore and junior year. We did not win, which was, which was frustrating. But I had a re, I had a great experience. I had a really old coach. I had a coach who set, I think a record in Connecticut for wins.
I think he has over 500 wins in Connecticut, high school hockey. And I, I referred him as more of an old school coach. Just 'cause he was old first off. But he always was, he always tended to bring in really good players in the area. And we were really competitive and everybody wanted to play there.
I, not to be nitpicky, but I went to that school because I thought they had a really good hockey program. And, it turns out I ended up getting a really good education out of it too. But I went to that school for the hockey program and we did really good things. I had a great senior year and, and that's what catapulted me to wanting [00:10:00] to continue to play hockey at the junior level and then, and then move on to college level.
So yeah, those, those years in high school really, really built me as a hockey player.
Jason Jacobs: And w were, was it multi-sport in your house? Did you do other things or was it all hockey? All the time?
Peter Gintoli: I, I played everything. I think my older brother is big into baseball. My sister did
field hockey lacrosse. I did lacrosse as well. But it's, it's funny you say that 'cause. Nowadays we, we ask kids to come in and play two sports. And I essentially, I did play two sports, but going to a new school, I, I needed to do something in the fall to make friends and I ended up playing freshman football.
It was something that I always wanted to play. Growing up in my town, we have a really good football team. So I played freshman football just to, just to have some fun. And turns out I was pretty good at hitting people. And we had a really good fresh, I don't know if freshman football's still around, but we had a really good freshman football team and that transferred, that transferred into doing cross country hockey and lacrosse at, [00:11:00] at my high school.
So I was a three sport athlete, if you want to count cross country as a sport. I had a tremendous time playing those sports, and I think those sports just give you a different lens to coaching, gives you a different lens to playing on skates versus playing on cleats and, and all those things.
It's just I think it's really important developmentally. To play other sports and get a feel for different things. And I see it now with our roster. Our roster has division one lacrosse players and, and kids that are good at other things. So, I think it's very valuable to play more than one sport.
And I coach lacrosse now too, so I get to see that, that side of it. So.
Jason Jacobs: tried to get my kid into lacrosse and he, he'd played for a few years and with every passing year he was getting less interested and finally we stopped and it's been, a few years. And in that time he tried baseball and that didn't work. But he's done track a couple years and he likes that. But now he's talking about maybe going back to lacrosse.
But I don't know, like some people they've got, like a serious sport every season. For him it's like, no, hockey's my [00:12:00] serious sport. And like, yeah, I'm gonna play year round. Although certainly we dial it, we do different stuff in variety and dial it back in the off season. But I think he is still in service of his primary, but he's showing more interest in doing other stuff, which I think is great.
And he, he would've done other stuff earlier if he, wanted to, but it, but it's been, I think I, on the one hand, frustrating. That it hasn't shown more interest. But on the other, it's like, all right, like if you're gonna pour it all into one spot, like that's, that's okay as long as it's coming from you.
I just hope that you can self-regulate or not burn yourself out. So, 'cause sometimes, sometimes you haven't, you don't develop, like even I struggle with burning myself out and self-regulating and I'm 49, so yeah.
Peter Gintoli: No, I think that's great. And I played little League all growing up and one of the, one of the sports that I always wanted to play was basketball, and it was always in the winter season, so it's just so tough to play. And it's funny enough, I, I'm coaching LA last season at the Canterbury School in Connecticut, and we have this kid from Uber Mass, and [00:13:00] he's an unbelievable baseball player, unbelievable hockey player.
And turns out he's an unbelievable basketball player too. He's like, I was like, when did you find the time? He is like, I just play, I just play in a, a, a rec league in Woburn. It's like Monday nights or something. I was like, you kidding me? You're like, better than some of the kid varsity kids on our team.
And it's just, I, I think it's really important to try different things. And it sounds that's awesome that your kid's doing that. He's just branching out trying different things. It it, that's awesome.
Jason Jacobs: And my, my daughter's had a portfolio approach from day one. Like she doesn't, she doesn't want, actually, I don't know if she wants any of the one thing to be like the thing, right? She's just like, oh, like it, if she had to pick one it would be soccer. But like she, I dunno, she's got such a wide range of interests, which we also think is great.
But that's this isn't a prep school discussion, but actually it's one of the things I worry about with prep school is that is that it? Every sport is so competitive, right? That if you like, is there space to dabble? And in some schools. They've, it's more like they have like five [00:14:00] teams for one sport, and it's like, okay, there's definitely room to dabble.
Right. But in some schools it's like, it's like the varsity's really competitive and then there's no jv, right? And so I, it's, it's, it's just a consideration that we're thinking about as we start getting into those years is just 'cause that, that well-roundedness we think is important. And sometimes it feels like that feels less accessible given how ultra, how everything's pushing towards mastery.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, and I think, I think we're one of those schools that's still trying our best to hang onto our JV programs and make sure our programming is, is strong enough where kids can, try different things but know that they're still being pushed if they do have aspirations of being a varsity player one day. And I think hockey's one of those sports here. We had seven kids on our varsity team this year that played JV here at Tabor at one point,
Whether they were freshman or sophomore. And that's a high number. Like I don't think you could go to any other prep school and see that. And I think that's something that our head coach takes a lot of pride in is keeping the community strong too.
And, and when you take a kid who's played JV freshman or sophomore [00:15:00] year and makes the jump his junior year, I think it sends a strong message not only to the coaching staff, but. To your teammates and maybe to some of the recruited guys coming in, oh my God, this kid is homegrown. And, and I think that makes our community stronger.
And then the second piece, what you said there is, we have so many things here, at least at our school, that you can do and try. We have crew and that's like a sport you can jump in and really just learn quickly and, skill mastery comes, catches on quick. 'cause it's, you're really doing one thing and that's, that's moving oars, figuring out how to put it in the water and, and then working on your strength from there, whether it's your legs or your lats or your arms or whatever.
But, we have guys that, did a bunch of different things this spring. I had a couple guys play JB lacrosse. We had kids that made the varsity crew boat the first boat. I think they have three boats. One of our top defensemen never crewed before. He is like the second or third seat on the first boat for the crew team.
So it's just, I think we have a lot of things that attract people here naturally because of the hockey. If you need another sport to do and you're not like. Gung-ho [00:16:00] on being a varsity baseball player or a varsity lacrosse player. There's other options here. And, and some people would go to crew, some people play JB lacrosse 'cause there's a lot of kids here that play lacrosse. It's still competitive. And it gives 'em, that gives 'em what they need in the springtime. And then more importantly, they're getting out in the sun. And they're getting away from the cold rink. Which, which is nice. So, but yeah, I think, I think Tabor offers a lot of different things and we still take a lot of pride in, in our JV programming.
For sure. For sure.
Jason Jacobs: So, how much did you aspire and have goals when you were coming up as a player and at what point did you start to think about making hockey or sport part of your occupation?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, that's, that's actually funny. So that. I was when I was a senior in high school, I, I had a really good year. I'm not gonna sugarcoat it. I had a really good season. And then I had a really good summer and, and I actually decided my senior year that I wasn't gonna play a spring sport. I was gonna get in the gym and [00:17:00] really just focus on getting bigger and stronger so I can make the next step, which was junior hockey. And I found this program called the Bay State Breakers. I played a couple summer tournaments my junior year, summer and my senior year summer, and they're like, Hey, we want you to come play for our team. And it was one of those situations where I had to go and pretty much try out for the team.
That's pretty much junior hockey in a nutshell. Kids always say, oh, I got tendered, I signed with this team. I was like, well, you haven't done the, you haven't done the training camp yet. You haven't been to the main camp where there's 40 kids. And then they cut it down to 30 and then they cut it down to 25.
And that's pretty much the team. And a lot of these junior teams have two teams. They have like their NCDC team, and then they have their premier team. So, back
in 2000.
Jason Jacobs: is the top.
Peter Gintoli: CDC is the top.
I'm just using that one as a, as a benchmark here. And, and, and that was the league that I played in. It was called the EJHL back then and they still had a junior B league. So essentially I went to this training camp. I didn't make the team. I ended up going to the Woodchuck, which is up in Vermont. It's a great tournament that they start the year off with. And I had a good [00:18:00] weekend but there were just some bigger, stronger kids ahead of me. And essentially they said, you can practice with us every single day. But you're gonna play with the junior B team just so you're getting your reps and top six minutes and power play and all those things. And at the time I was frustrated and I really wanted to play on that top team. But I think in the long run, it was really beneficial for me to just take a step back, play those games, get those minutes, and I was practicing with that team every single day which I thought was super valuable for me. And then that next year I went back to the same program and I played on that top team. I didn't get as much minutes, but that was actually the year I decided, I was like, I want to coach. I don't want, I don't want people to go through what I went through. I wanna try to build different relationships.
And we were even doing new drills and I was like, wow, I've never done this stuff before, coming from Connecticut just to Massachusetts. So that was the year where my, the light bulb
Jason Jacobs: So before you even got to college.
Peter Gintoli: Before I even got to college, I was like, I had a, I had an iPod with, with notes, a notepad in it, and I just started filling [00:19:00] things.
I was like, man, I'm learning so much. And, and I was like, I love hockey so much. And I think down the road I do want to coach. And I had a vision of being a teacher and working at a school and hopefully coaching hockey at the school. And it took a little while to get there, but I'm here now and I actually reflected on it recently after talking with you.
I was like, wow, this is like what I wanted to do, and now I'm doing it. It's just really exciting. But, but yeah, no, I had that like clear vision that second year at junior hockey before going to college. I was like. I wanna coach and I wanna teach, and I wanna I wanna help kids get to the next level if that's what they wanna do. 'Cause not everybody wants that. Not everybody wants that goal. So, but yeah, that was like the lightning rod moment for me. It was junior hockey learning from that coach and just realizing, wow, I, I can, I can do this one, and then two, I can eventually provide this for another player down the road, which is what I do now, and I'm, I'm very happy about it.
Jason Jacobs: And, and, and given that, tell me about I mean we don't need to go through [00:20:00] every year in chronological detail, but just like, what are the key reflections on, the, the D three entry, the experience playing college hockey, and also the experience playing college hockey, knowing going in that it wasn't gonna be your profession, but that you intended to stay in the game.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, yeah. No, I think I, I. To go, to go backwards here. To go forwards. I'm running a skate right now on Monday and Wednesday mornings, and I'm running it at the BOG in Kingston. It's actually where I played junior hockey. And essentially I, the first day I had all the kids, I, I told them, I was like, Hey, getting recruited for college sports is really hard.
It's really, really hard. And you never know who's watching. You never know who's watching. And I told them that I played two years of junior hockey here at the Bog, played for the Bay State Breakers. I didn't, I went on one college visit. I talked to a few coaches but we had a goal tender who got hurt that year.
He broke his neck the end of the year. He didn't break his neck, he fractured his spine or whatever. And, and at the end of the year, [00:21:00] he needed somebody to come shoot on him. And he reached out to me. I was still in the area and I was like, yeah, I'll come shoot on you. I'll shoot waist down, get you back in shape.
There was a college coach there watching him. And then he actually approached me afterwards and that's how I actually got recruited to go play in college. And that's what I told the kids. I was like, Hey, listen, like you never know who's in the rink. Just work as hard as you can. This is how I got recruited. And then they were all like, whoa, really? Like I thought I had to play on this team or that team, or be at this showcase. I was like, no, you just gotta be at the right place at the right time sometimes. And just always play with the mindset that somebody's watching you play that's never seen you play before.
What's, what's your, where are you gonna leave? What's your impression on them? So that day I made a good impression and yeah, I was able to play division three KA hockey at Salve Regina after that. And. It was a tremendous team. We had a really good coach, really good leader. He was all about culture.
He let us, he trusted us to play our own ways. And he was just a phenomenal person for us. And we went to the championship [00:22:00] three out of four years. We won my senior year, which was like the cherry on top. And it was just a tremendous experience. We played in a strong conference and we were able to make the national tournament our senior year.
And I think the year after the, or two years after, they made it all the way to the national championship and lost in double overtime. So, he really took that program to New heights. And he has since moved on too. He's, he's the head associate at UMass Lowell now.
And I stay in touch with him on a regular basis.
And I actually help him run a summer camp in Martha's Vineyard, but I won't be helping him this summer 'cause we have a second child on the way. But it's, it's just. I learned so much from him. And a lot of it was relationship building, culture building, how to win, how to do it together and just continue to get to the top each year, which was, which was just so eye-opening that we, we had 24 or 25 guys that, wanted to do that for him and for each other.
And, and that made my college experience tremendous and it actually made me wanna keep playing afterwards. And I played [00:23:00] just one year professionally. But and I'll tell you, the college experience was way better than the pro experience. I, I just think the relationships you build with people at a four year institution or even more if you, if you're willing to get more education, but college versus pro, it was like no brainer.
I was like, man, I really miss college hockey. It, it's just those relationships that you build and seeing guys go in and out the door. And pro hockey is, is really, really tough. You have like a collection of 10 guys that stay all year, and then after that it's just like a revolving door of players. Which is a whole other story. But my college experience was second to none. And when I told the kids that story about how I got recruited, they were like, no way. I was like, yeah, it's, that's, you always gotta bring your best no matter what.
And you never know who's watching.
Jason Jacobs: Do I, I wonder what the portal's doing to that continuity in college.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah. It's, it's, it's really tough. We started to see it a little bit. My, my first year in college. I was like, whoa. We actually got a kid from Notre Dame who came in as a sophomore [00:24:00] and finished his career at Yale. But yeah, the portal has just completely changed the mindset, I think, of college hockey, where college hockey, it still is a developmental level. But now it's like, it, it's a business and, and a lot of teams are in it to win it every single year. And, and they're more, it's just pretty cutthroat and they're really just trying to win every single year. And they'll bring in a whole new team if they have to depending on where you are and what league you play in.
But there's still a few teams out there that are, sticking to their laurels and bringing in freshman classes and building their teams like they would, back in the day. But yeah, that portal is it's something else right now. And even at the division three level, it's, it's starting
to track
Jason Jacobs: mean, shit rolls downhill, right?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah. Yeah. Big time. Big time. Yeah. No, that's, that's that's the best way to say it right there. Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: So tell me about the transition. So, at what point did you start thinking and getting active about transitioning into coaching, and how did that transition go? Where did you start?[00:25:00]
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, I I finished my first year pro. It wasn't, it wasn't the best year, but what I, what I tell some of the kids that I coached is that, I was able to play on the same team all year. I didn't get cut, I didn't get waived, I was a good teammate. I enjoyed being around my teammates and, I think that stuff is really valuable as well.
And that, that's a whole other conversation. But I think about three quarters of the way through the year, and, and especially when we didn't make playoffs, I was like, what am I gonna do here? I'm at a crossroads. Do I, do I keep pushing through this? Do I, do I try and play for another team? Do I ask the coach, Hey, I really want to come back.
I think I could do better. I, I think I just, I had a business degree in my pocket and at the time my uncle was working at a liquor distributor and I was like, Hey, can. Can you help me out, get a job? And I worked at that liquor distributor that summer, and I got roped into the corporate life a little bit.
And I did that for four years and, and I was, I started off as like customer service and work my way into being a business analyst and working in liquor sales, which is quite easy if you're, if you're asking me. But [00:26:00] it's
just
Jason Jacobs: yeah, there's harder things to sell. I'm sure.
Peter Gintoli: yeah, there, there are harder things to sell. But it was just I, I got roped into it.
I got roped into it pretty quickly. And and at the same time, I, I, I always knew I wanted a coach. We talked about that and I, I jumped into coaching that summer. I was like, Hey, I've reached out to all these people. I was like, I really wanna help, run a skills group or jump on, jump on this team or that team.
And at the time I joined a program called the Elite Hockey Academy. They're still around. They do a tremendous job. I. And I worked with them. I, I jumped on as an assistant coach and I think around Christmas they, they had an opening with their 14 U team and they just needed somebody to help out.
So I became a head coach pretty much right away at the 14 U level. And, and I love that
Jason Jacobs: Would Peter, was this a is it a boarding program? How does it work? The
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, so, so it's both. They had a youth pro, they have a youth program up to 14 U and then after 14 u it turns into their academy.
Jason Jacobs: Uhhuh, but it's school too.
Peter Gintoli: it's school too. Yeah. So, I, I ran the 15 U team for [00:27:00] three years and about half of our team was online academy style skating in the morning going to a classroom at the rink, which wasn't ideal. And then, team practice at night and then rinsing and repeating throughout the week, playing our competitive schedule, which was in the A YHL at the time. But yeah, I did that for four seasons while working at the liquor distributor. And, it's since changed. They've joined a Catholic school, which I think is great.
Like they're in person. They're away from the rink during the day but they still get their skates in the morning. But yeah, I did that for four years and then COVID hit and I was like, I don't really know what to do here. I'm at a crossroads again. And I was skating at a men's league skate during COVID, which was, they say it was illegal back then. But we were doing it at night. It was just a group of coaches that coaches and players that just couldn't play that year. It was such a weird year for everybody. And a couple of the Yale coaches were, were skating there and they're like, Hey, do you want to join us in a. Director of hockey ops role, you'll do a ton of video and you'll have to do some grunt work with, with meals and [00:28:00] travel, you're gonna be in the room, learning from other coaches.
And I took that jump that year right after COVID and it was a great, great experience going to college hockey after that. But, but as you now know, I'm working in high school. I made that jump back to the age group that I was working with, which is that 14, 15, 16 level, which is high school age kids.
And that's the level that I really connect with the most. And those three years at Yale, two and a half really gave me a whole different lens on player development. I thought, coming in as a coach, young coach, I was like, skills, I'm gonna tell these kids, we made places where to be.
I was very good one-on-one. What I didn't realize is I wasn't really great with the team game yet, and when I got to Yale it was like all team. All together all about us, all that stuff. And, and I was able to see the game in a different lens because I wasn't on the ice and, and I was up in the stands and I was able to watch and just grab information for two years.
And man, I see the game so much differently now because of that [00:29:00] experience.
Jason Jacobs: Does, does hockey ops is that one of those roles that if you look at 10 different directors of hockey ops, they have 10 completely different job descriptions, or is it pretty consistent across.
Peter Gintoli: It's, it's, it's pretty consistent across the board, I think. Usually those, those guys are the video coordinators. They're, they're live coding every game. They're doing a lot of pre scouting for the head coach and the assistants, depending on what they want you to do. And then from there you're doing, all the travel, you're setting up the buses, flights all the pre-game meals, post-game meals, a lot of grunt work. But then you're, you're in the room, at intermission, you're in the room before the game. I, I think one of the last games, my, my second year, the coach, let me do the, the, the line, I got the call at the starting lineup in the locker room, so you're still building relationship with the players and the coaches and the equipment staff, but it's just. Yeah, it, it's pretty much the same across the board, although ever since this major junior thing and, and a few years ago they added another assistant coach. So now everybody's third assistant is the [00:30:00] director of hockey ops and they're an assistant coach. And, and that role looks a little bit different for every program.
I think some teams are even doing their third coach is the general manager and they just, they pretty much more or less spend their time more away from the team. And they're doing a lot of recruiting and they're on the road and that way the three guys that are back can coach and focus on the teams in front of them and maybe do some recruiting in the area. But this one guy is now like the general manager. So I've seen it go the general manager route and I've also seen it just stick to what it is. And that's, director of hockey ops taking care of the grunt work and then doing all the video. So, yeah. And, and that video work really helped me as well.
And you talked earlier about some video stuff and, and that video work was huge. I didn't realize how much, we used it a little bit when I was in college. Like we, we used it for prec scouts and stuff, and it was really helpful. But at the division one level and, and watching games and figuring out tendencies the two guys that I worked with were, I thought they were [00:31:00] masters at it. I thought they
Jason Jacobs: What, what were their titles?
Peter Gintoli: They, they were the assistant coaches for the team. And,
The, the head coach did a really nice job of splitting up the work. I think. We had a D coach and a forward coach and the D coach did the penalty kill as well, and then the forward coach did the power play.
So our, our head coach did a really good job of kind of giving guys duties and letting them run with it. He didn't like step on their toes, he, he let them do things and if he needed to provide feedback, he did. But like, I was able to go to the for coach and be like, and he'd be like, Hey, can you pull up all the penalty kills from Clarkson for the last three games?
I just wanna see what they're doing. So we can find some spots to, to, manipulate and try to find a way to score goals. And then I'd go to the D coach and the D coach would be like, Hey, I need, the last three games of Power play from, from Clarkson. And, I wanna figure out what they're doing and who they're targeting and who they're trying to get the shot off to.
So, it's, it's really cool building those relationships and, and diving into the game a little bit deeper. 'cause at the youth level it's like work hard. This is the four check we're [00:32:00] doing. Manage your shifts and stuff like that. And at the college level it's even deeper. It's like you're focusing on power play, penalty kill face offs just so many, like it's your job and you gotta figure out every single edge you can to win each weekend.
So, it's, that experience was, was second to none working in college.
Jason Jacobs: So I wanna go back to the academy for a moment. I'm just curious now that you've had some time away from it what are your reflections when it comes to online school for kids coming up, and what are your reflections on single sport academies for kids coming up? So that could be overall reflections as well as any thoughts on who they might be, right for or wrong for.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, I, I. I was all in for it. I think it's, it sounds like an awesome idea, right? Like, you're, like, you're a kid, you're 14 or 15 years old, and you're like, I'm gonna go play for this academy and I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna get to play hockey every single day. And [00:33:00] then you probably get two months into it and you're like, oh man, like, skating twice a day, going to school, trying to do school on my own. It gets, it gets old fast. And that, that's what I got out of it. And I think there's ways to do it. And I, and I really like the academies that are using an actual school
so the kids can get away from the rink and remove the rink from the equation for however many hours a day. And whatever the regular school day is, maybe it's from eight to 3:00 PM like just get away from the rink. You can skate before school, after school, that's fine, but get away from the rink. And I think that's one of the biggest reflections is that I. And they've since changed and they've adapted that program that I worked with.
But I just thought the online schooling at the rink was really difficult and mentally very challenging for, for the kids in that program at the time. But a lot of kids push through and some, there's some really good players that are playing in college hockey now, and some are even playing professionally.
It's just, it's not for everybody. Those academy styles. And I, I think the ones that do it right [00:34:00] have the school in place that's separate from the rink and I, and I think those, those work out a little bit better. But if you're in the rink doing online schooling on your own. It, it's really tough, especially for a kid that's 14, 15 years old.
I can understand guys playing junior hockey at 18, 19, 20 years old that need to finish a few classes on their own. They should be old enough to handle that. But 14, 15, 16, you need instruction. You need structure you need a teacher in front of you. You need guidance during the day. And, and that can be tough with those online academies working on your own and, and if you are working on your own and it does work for you, you, you have a high passion and you have a desire to get better for yourself.
And that takes time to find if you can find it at 12, 13 years old, you're probably gonna be ahead, but I don't think people really know what they want to do until, I don't know, 18 years old. So those are defining years in my opinion. And the Academy style I think it works. In certain ways, and I think removing yourself from the rink during the day and then coming back, [00:35:00] or, or if it's soccer or any of those other sports I, I think you gotta remove yourself and those ones work a little bit better, in my opinion, if that makes sense.
Jason Jacobs: It does. And I guess along similar lines, 'cause you talked about, what the kid needs, right? And I often hear, well listen to the kid. Right. But at the same time, like as a former kid, the kid doesn't always know what they need and. So there's a difference, I think, as a parent between between living vicariously and projecting what you want on a kid who doesn't want it, versus helping a kid, avoid the blind spots of lack of life experience so that they don't look back with their regret because they weren't mature enough to know what they needed at a time.
Right. And, and in that frame, especially given how much more involved parents are today in charting the athletic development path of their kids what are some healthy ways that you've seen parents [00:36:00] be involved? What are some unhealthy ways you've seen parents involved? And then what do you, what advice do you have for parents on how to manage that as their kids are going through the shoot?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, that's, that's always difficult coach. Difficult question. Working with the parents and at the youth level, the parents are very involved. You, you see them, three, three to five nights a week, weekends and, and during the week. But it, it's, it's a hard question.
And then, and then in college you virtually don't, you don't deal with the parents at
all. I, I met a few parents here and there, but you're just, you're just dealing with the young man that's in college. But yeah, I think parents, they, they have a vital role in their kids' development in general, not just sport specific.
It, it's, and, and I think the biggest thing that I always talk about is the car ride home. From practice or from school, from from games from. Your siblings games, even like, it's just that, that's the biggest [00:37:00] conversation that I try to have with people is, what are you, what are you saying on the ride home?
And then I try to stick, cater this to the youth level a little bit more. But, are you, are you barking at your kid about something he did wrong during the game or are you applauding their effort? It, it's just, it's, it's a, it's a double-edged sword and it's really hard, but I, I think my messaging to parents is just to let, let your kids make mistakes and, and let them build their own relationships with their coaches.
I think parents do a really good job, at least at my level now, is they do a really good job of communicating and reaching out to coaches and having conversations. But at the end of the day, for me, I wanna work with your kid. And if your kid is putting in pretty much the same amount of effort as you, I think that's gonna work out really well for me. I'm gonna build a relationship with the parent and the kid. If the parent is doing all the work and I haven't heard from the kid it makes, it's a little awkward for me. I don't know if the kid genuinely wants it. It sounds like the parent wants to come here and play. But it, [00:38:00] it's, for parents, my advice is always just to support your kid. Applaud their effort. If, if they have a hockey question or a school question or, or extracurricular question, have them have the, give them the advice of go talk to your coach. Ask them what they think you need to work on or, or something like that. Like, I, I don't want to tell parents what to do.
It's really hard. I'm learning already a young two and a half year old son. But it's for parents. My, my advice is always to just push your kids, to make their own relationships with their teammates, with their coaches and make their own mistakes and and go from there. It's, it's, it's a hard question for me 'cause I've had, I had some really. Rough conversations with parents over the years, the 14 U level especially. I think, I think at that level you need to look, be able to look ahead a little bit better and know that the level of the skill gap getting tighter and tighter and tighter after you, after you graduate from 14 u you know, you're gonna go be a freshman or a sophomore in high school somewhere, and you're gonna get put [00:39:00] on the ice before you even know it. And it, it's just one of those things where you, you have to look ahead a little bit more and, and not realize that your kid is not at his peak right now. He's, he's gotta keep getting better. And that's the other message too, is just tell your kid, you need to just keep working hard, keep getting better.
If you love this, keep working at it. Keep, keep shooting pucks. If you have a good relationship with the coach, reach out to the coach and ask him what I need to be doing this summer. And I always say, put the onus on the kid. And if they want it and they have people that they trust, have them reach out to those people. And then eventually I think your kids will come back to you and be like, Hey, I, I, this is, this is working for me. Can I have your help with this? And then the parents can come in and I think that's a little healthier, but it's, I'm not trying to go around around the question at all. It's just, it's a touchy one for me. But parents just, just support your kids and, and let them build their own relationships. I think that's my short answer to that.
Jason Jacobs: So, I'll ask another one along similar lines and then we can [00:40:00] switch to some more softballs. But but the when your kid is coming up the advice you often hear is like, let a kid find their own way, right? But let's forget about sports for a minute and look at schoolwork, right?
Like, what kid is gonna just dial in and get all their homework done if you don't stay on top of 'em about it, right? And then if you don't stay on top of 'em about it, they're gonna regret it later. Because then when it comes time that you know, where there's accountability and when they're trying to get into their dream schools and things like that, like.
They're not gonna be able to, and they're gonna be like, why didn't I work harder along the way? And I was like that, right? Like my parents, I, I love my parents, they love me. They gave me a wonderful childhood, but they were hippies and yuppie clothes, right? And they just, they just, didn't push us.
Right. And as a result, like it was okay for me to just like screw off. Right. And I look back with some regret that I didn't dial myself in, right? I, I found myself motivation later in life. And, and so, like how, how might a [00:41:00] parent navigate that balance of letting the kid find their own way with also like, giving them the structure to keep the wheel, to keep the train on the tracks.
And I, I'm asking that, in a general lens, but really like that has direct application to sports too. A lot of people say it's different, right? They say like, oh, well yeah, in academics it's okay. It's like, well, the, if you don't want your kid to flounder in academics, why would you let your kid then flounder in athletics?
Right? And, and it's like, well, if they don't want it, then it's like, well, they don't wanna do their homework and I'm not gonna let them screw off in that, right? So I don't know, like, what do, do you understand the tension that I'm getting at? And I'd love to just hear your reactions to it and thoughts.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, I think so. And I, I think it makes me think of my childhood a little bit. My mom, my mom was always on us and, I had clear motivation for hockey at an early age. I love playing other sports, but for hockey specifically, if I was sick and I didn't go to school that day, I didn't get to go to hockey practice that night. If if I came home and I didn't get my homework done before hockey practice, I wasn't going to hockey practice. So, at an early age, I had my [00:42:00] parents gave me some structure and guidelines of like, you're not going anywhere until you get this done. Or you do these chores. And I think my, my parents and my mom specifically did a really good job of that, of being like. You're not going anywhere until you get this done. And that kind of gave me a little bit more structure, just even when I was by myself shooting pucks on the own. Like I would always pick up the pucks when I was done. It always drives me crazy when I, when I go places and see that the pucks aren't picked up or stuff like that.
It's just having some structure and discipline dirt throughout the day. And especially specifically with, with academics, getting your work done. I think that's the minimum is getting your work done getting your homework done and maybe doing a little bit studying for an assessment. But if you do that, you can do whatever else you want the rest of the day.
And it clears your head too. You have clarity of knowing that I got everything done. I can focus on hockey now. And I think, I see it a lot now with high school kids of just trying to do everything at once. It's like, just get your homework done before dinner and then you can eat dinner and think about some things you want to do tonight or, or [00:43:00] stuff like that.
You saying? All of that just made me think about my mom and the structure and discipline that she gave me from an earlier age and trying to do it now, but with my son, but he's, maybe he's just a little too young, but it's just that, that made me think of that. And I don't know if that answers what you're asking, but I think structure and discipline goes a long way. And especially when you're, when you're trying to go on your own and maybe go to an academy or play junior hockey, if you don't have that structure and discipline personally it can be really tough for you to be on your own.
Jason Jacobs: And semi relatively you're at a place that happens to have strong hack hockey and strong education. Increasingly it seems like the hockey path is getting longer and harder. And it seems that the optimizing for the hockey path sometimes feels like it might be at odds with optimizing for either academic success or even longer term life success.
Given that you're in a [00:44:00] place that values both what is your advice for navigating that tension and sorting through that maze, given that sometimes it feels like you're as a family or as a kid, or as a parent getting pulled in opposite directions?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, it's, it's really tough now navigating, especially with this whole major junior thing that kind of took over. So, so what I say is that everybody's path is different. I think people hear that from, I. Many different people. But for me, I, I think, and I've gotten some advice from different people in college and some some high level agents and, and advisors and general managers of junior hockey teams.
And I think some of the advice I've gi been given is try to prolong your career as long as possible. So if that means repeating a year. To stay at, stay at the level that you're at then so be it. But if, if you are marked as a high level athlete maybe even a high level student too, maybe you don't need to repeat and you can just get to junior hockey a little bit earlier.
But it's, [00:45:00] it's tough. It's a really hard question to answer at times because everybody's path is different and, and the main one that I always see is, I'm, I wanna be a repeat 10th grader. I'm just not big enough and strong enough yet. That's a great reason to repeat is like, okay, I just need another year to like, catch up to my peers and and grow, and, and, and, if I had another year of high school, I think it would've been really beneficial for me.
And and I did try to go do a postgraduate year somewhere. It just didn't work out. So it's just I, I see that, that's like my first one. It's always like, okay, you just need another year to get bigger and stronger. Repeat your junior year, your sophomore year, whatever it is and then dominate this level before you get to the next level. And I think some people are just really in a hurry sometimes of like, okay, I'm not gonna repeat. I'm gonna, I'm gonna just keep pushing through and just get to the next level, get to the next level as well. Well, I'd like to see you dominate this level before you go to the next level. So that's a, that's I'm taking that question and going in a different direction, but I'm, I'm always big [00:46:00] on that, dominate this level before you go to the next level. So, yeah.
Jason Jacobs: And either in terms of who you have now or in terms of what you look for. Or both. Are you finding that there are any trends as it relates to kids coming in that hockey is their main or their only, versus kids that are have more of a portfolio approach and, and are more general athletes that that play different sports in different seasons?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, I think, I think, we, we ca we definitely cater to the kids that, view hockey as their number one sport. We're not, we're not in a situation really that I. We're looking for kids that are, still deciding between sports, although we do have those players. But I think, with how competitive our league is and and what we really need at the varsity level, we are looking for guys that, that this is hockey is their number one sport. If it does work out that a kid can play more than one sport and he's competitive at it some of those guys are some of your best athletes and best players. [00:47:00] 'Cause they're just a little bit more well-rounded when it comes to just seeing different sports and playing on different fields and surfaces. Yeah, no, I think our, our recruiting style is, has been like, let's get the best, best, best player possible. And go from there. And I think we've done a really good job of finding that blend, of finding the best player, but also finding a really good person as well. There's so many really good players that just didn't take care of their schoolwork and it just doesn't, it doesn't work out.
And, we've tried to find that blend of athletics, academics and then like, is this a really good kid who's gonna blend in well with our group? Like we, I think we have some really good leadership next year and we have some really nice kids coming in that were, that were all captains of their teams.
They were all leading scores. They were all given an immense amount of ice time. How are they going to fit into those roles and, and maybe take a little bit at less ice time, but be on a really competitive team. So I think those are the things that we look for. And we're not a team that really. Builds a huge roster [00:48:00] and we're like, oh, let's take, 16 forward, nine defensemen and four goalies. We take what we need and that's 12 forward, 60 and two goalies. And I think that, gives a little bit more motivation to the guys that are coming in. And that means we have to recruit a little bit harder and dig a little bit deeper into each family. But yeah, no, I, I, it's, it's, always tough. Like you want to take the best player possible, but you need to factor everything because they're gonna be a member of our community and they need to be a good member of the community as well. So, and that's something I've, I've definitely taken from the coaches that I've worked with in the past, is that you need to take the best person possible. And if, if you get a good hockey player out of it, great. But you need to take the best person 'cause. Some situations you might have the kid for three years or four years or, or two years, and two years might be too long sometimes. So
it's just we try to do our best to make sure we're bringing the best kids possible from a culture standpoint, and, and hopefully it takes over from there.
But yeah, I think we've, we've done a nice job going into this year.
Jason Jacobs: And tell me about the role [00:49:00] of assistant coach. What, what's in your purview? What, what do you do?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah. So, yeah, no, I, I love it. I love being an assistant coach. I think you get to build a different relationship with your player. I think as a head coach I. Sometimes you have to be a little bit less vulnerable. You need to be able to make hard decisions. And that's something that I took on pretty early, is I, I, I pretty much understood that, as an assistant coach, you're a suggestion maker.
You can provide feedback, you could be, you can give good ideas to the head coach, but at the end of the day, the head coach is decision maker. So I'm a suggestion maker. We have, and then we have a really good decision maker. And some of the other things that I do is I help, I help run practice.
I, I do a ton of recruiting, at least, at least at this school. I do a ton of recruiting. And just pretty much build relationships as much as possible and try and get kids to play at their best for the team. And that, and that's my role. My role is, and it's just, I think it's as simple as that, is to provide feedback to the head coach, provide feedback to the players based on my experiences and, and, what's [00:50:00] presently given to me at the time. And then try to maximize what we can in practice and then make sure the kids are competing at the highest level during the games. 'cause this area in Boston is, is there's a lot of talent. And navigating that talent and playing against it is, is a lot, a lot of fun for sure.
Jason Jacobs: When it comes to player development how much consistency is there in terms of what every player's expected to do on their own? And and how much is it up to each player to decide? And how varied are the are the development approaches of the different kids on the team?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, I think, I think for our guys, we have a t we have a, a number of guys, pretty much our entire team that do, they do strength and conditioning together as a group in the fall. So five days a week, they're in the gym, they play their split season or whatever in the weekends. They have our season, which is a 33 game schedule.
We're on the ice six of the seven days a week. We have an awesome video platform that we use that we try to, we try to do video. We pretty much did video [00:51:00] biweekly this
year,
Jason Jacobs: What, do you, what do you use? Is that something you built or is that like a, an a, a vendor.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, so we used to use something, we used to use Huddle's platform which was a little wonky and, and tough to use and tough to present from. And then, what we did this year is we had, we had a group reach out to us, and it's called 49 ing. I don't know why they named it
that, but it's called 49 ing. And it's an AI platform that takes the color of the jersey, the number of the Jersey. As long as you upload your roster correctly you're able to, it, it cuts up the game for you. And being a, being somebody who teaches, coaches advises is a dorm parent at night, I don't have a ton of time. To watch the game from start to finish and cut it up myself. So what this AI platform does is it, it removes all the cutting time and I give it a ton of filters. And for example, like if I wanna watch the power plays, boom, I can just filter it to power plays. It'll give me the four that we had last game.
I can look through 'em, I can send them to [00:52:00] players too, via email or text or whatever, and be like, Hey, did you, did you watch this power play? Like, do you know, like on the breakout you're just like completely not supporting the puck. Like those things. And then like I'm able to pull up all the face offs, I'm able to pull up all the shots at the click of a, at the click of a finger.
And it's so nice especially for a coach in the prep school world who needs to grade papers and set up lesson plans and, get ready for practice the next day. This platform, I know there's a number of teams in prep that are using it. It's been a lifesaver for somebody who, you know, and then you have a newborn in the equation, it's like I'm able to just be like, okay, I need a 20 minute video session.
Our breakouts have been horrible. Let's pull out all the breakouts, all the D zone exits and see what they look like. And then let's pick, and then, and then from, from Keith Elaine at Yale. Try to keep it as short as possible and concise. And then from there, just take those breakouts, find the three that bug you, and then find three that are really good. And then just talk about it and then move on and [00:53:00] find the next area that you need to work on. But that platform has been tremendous for us. And the uploading process is easy. And just filtering through those things is a lot of fun. I find myself on there quite a bit, just clicking around. And and then if you're a player on the team, you have your own account and you can go watch your shifts, you can literally just be like. I wanna watch all my even strength ice time. And, and maybe it's 12 minutes, 15 minutes, whatever it is. And you can just watch through it and watch your own shifts, which I think is great. You don't have to skip ahead. A lot of kids
have those platforms
Jason Jacobs: does it get the video from?
Peter Gintoli: Where they get the video. We, we, we record our own video.
It's, it's through the huddle platform. And then we just turn it into an MP four or whatever it is, and, and upload it to the 49 ing website. And then from there they cut it up for us. And I think they just use their ai, ai knowledge and technology where they just take the color of the jersey and the number and they cut it up by player and by team. So that way you know what you're looking [00:54:00] at.
And, and it's not perfect. I'd say it's probably got like a 90% success rate. There's, there's sometimes where you're like this isn't really what I was looking for, but for the most part, you're gonna get enough clips that you need to help teach and, and provide feedback for your players and team.
Jason Jacobs: Got it. And and when it comes to things that players need to work on from there what is, is it, is it just walking 'em through and pointing it out to them? Or are there actually things that you've found are helpful to reinforce to the player and help address the things that you isolate from the video?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, I think, I think it goes both ways. There's, there's more often than not, it's, it's gonna be me, me walking up and saying, Hey, did you, did you look through this shift? Or did you look through this power play? I think you need to work on this area. Like, I think you've been perimeter, you watched this whole shift, you never touched the middle of the ice
once.
It's things like that. And then there's the flip side where. Hopefully the player being a student of the game and they're watching their own shifts and [00:55:00] they bring it to you and they're like, Hey, how can I be better? And that's, those are the relationships that I'm looking to build, is like, I wanna provide as much feedback to you as possible, but if, if you're not taking it on your own and maybe bringing it to me sometimes then, then it's just a one way street.
We're trying to make it a two way street as much as possible. But yeah, no, it's, it's one of those platforms where I try, I try to bring it to them as much as I can. But at the same time, they, they need to bring it to us. And I saw that a ton at the college level. Those kids, they take a lot of pride in making their game better.
And, and some guys just had like weekly, or even twice a week, they would check in with their DCO and be like, Hey, I was watching this shift. What can I do better here? Those are some of the questions that you hope to hear from your players.
Jason Jacobs: Hmm. And similar to the parent question, I would imagine that in order to play at this level a bunch of these kids are maybe working with outside skills coaches on different things. Do you ever find that that the guidance that they're getting from outside coaches butts [00:56:00] heads with what you're trying to do with the system?
And is there any interaction with these outside coaches in coordination or is it walled off and, and done in the shadows?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, no, I, that's a great question. I, I intertwined with my coaching careers. I, I worked with a skills company called IPH in Connecticut. And the owner of that company does a really good job of building his own relationships with players and coaches across the board. And I don't personally think that they, they intertwine and they affect too much unless a coach like really wants to coach at the prep level or something like that or wants to be a head coach someday. But I think a lot of those guys have found their niche and where they can just provide feedback and, and be a sounding board for the player if needed. I, I just, I always reflect on my time with IPH in that your skills coach is he, he's just a guy that's helping you elevate your game, whether it's something you need to work on your shot or your skating or your explosiveness and stuff like that. I haven't found them to [00:57:00] be too intrusive or, or anything like that. I know that there are, there are shooting coaches out there that that do a really good job with their players and I have my own views on shooting and, and stuff like that and, and getting it off quick or, or knowing the time and place of when to take a full body shot versus shooting in stride.
But it's I have my own opinions on that and I'm always willing to talk it through with the player. I'm not set in stone in any way. I'm not like my way or the highway. I'm, I'm always willing to have the conversation with the kid or the parent. But I, I, I haven't run into too many of those situations where a skills coach has gotten involved or, or anything like that.
Jason Jacobs: We're at the hour mark. Do we have time for a couple of other topics or, or do
Peter Gintoli: Absolutely. Absolutely.
Jason Jacobs: Okay, good. Yeah, so one, if you were just auditing the New England, the state of New England. Hockey. And I don't necessarily mean prep, just the ecosystem in general, including the youth, the little guys and girls.
What do you see and, [00:58:00] is it, is it, do you feel like overall it's in a healthy state, unhealthy state? What do you happy about and what do you wish was different?
Peter Gintoli: Well, I guess starting from like the younger kids, I, I think I. When they made the transition to cross ice hockey for the younger kids, I thought that was a brilliant move. And I think making, even making the nets smaller because kids, a, a young kids standing in a full-size hockey net just, just didn't make sense.
And I think goalies weren't even getting better and they just, and kids were just like unmotivated to even be a goaltender. So, but I, I think when they did that and they made the rink just a little bit smaller, 'cause it makes a ton of sense. They're smaller kids, they need smaller surface, they touch the puck more, they skate a little bit harder. When it was full ice, it's like you could dog it at times and take your time getting up ice. So I thought that was a brilliant move. And this might be, this might be a little out there, but I'm, I really enjoyed the last few years the ruling with the offsides and,
Jason Jacobs: you were gonna say that.
Peter Gintoli: and the icing. The [00:59:00] icing on the penalty kill. I, I just, I'm very big on kids thinking the game and thinking with the puck on their stick and having the puck on their stick longer, like a little bit longer. Like, you have so much more time than you think. And I think that all that work the last few years, and I know the rules are changing just for the older levels, I still think it's gonna be so beneficial for the younger kids is that, I'm a little defenseman in the neutral zone.
My team isn't outta the zone yet. Instead of just banging it in I'm gonna protect it for a second. I'm gonna find an outlet. I'm gonna skate to space buy some time, get my head up. I think that has translated so nicely and I think it's just created so many better hockey players in the neutral zone and just being a better puck possessor, puck possessor in general. So I actually really like those rules. And then the penalty kill one, although I do freak out at times. But like. These kids have so much confidence now of just being like, I can't get rid of it. I need to make a real play. I know I can ship it outta the zone, but I'm gonna [01:00:00] make a real play first. Buy some time and then if I need to. And then they build that skill of like, I know how to ice the puck without icing it. Like I can send it
three quarters of the ice down. And that's a skill too. So it's just, I, I really like some of these things that they've put in place over the years and I know that they're going back to tag up above sides, at least at the 15.
Might be just 16 and eighteens, but maybe it's fifteens too. But I, I think that's appropriate. I think those kids are trying to play junior hockey. They shouldn't be surprised going into their first year of junior hockey and never having ice the puck on the penalty hill before, or, or, or never having to do a power play breakout.
Stuff like that. But at the younger levels, I really like what they did with mites. I think, I think there's just a lot of really good coaches, specifically in Massachusetts that do a really nice job with practice planning. I haven't seen a ton all over the place, but I, I just think the game's in a really good spot and I think USA hockey's done a pretty good job making sure that people are doing stations, but I think when you get to the [01:01:00] peewee minor level, that's when you gotta start hopefully doing a lot more up and down getting up and down the ice. There was a volunteer coach I worked with at Yale who was so big on that. He was like, you need to get them up and down the ice. And, and just, they need to see the whole rink all the time. And I think sometimes we lose that with all the station work that we do, but, if you can have a 20 minute segment of your practice where you're getting up and down the ice, that is so valuable.
'cause then you can see kids in a real game-like setting which is up and down the ice. So, yeah, those are some of my views. Yeah, and I think at the older levels it just becomes a little bit more structure driven. You need to be able to play within the coach's framework. And then, and then from there hopefully your game can come out on your own.
That's what I always tell kids is like, you need to play, you need to do what the coaches are asking you and then find ways to insert your own game. And that always, it, it, it's, it was super helpful for me is like, okay, this is the four check we're doing. Okay. How do I [01:02:00] get myself into a situation where I can be. The player that I am. And that's what I, I try to tell kids sometimes is like, you could still be the player you want to, you are and who you wanna be, but you need to do these kind of non-negotiables. And I think if you're a hockey fan watching the Florida Panthers that's what Paul Maurice talks about a lot.
He's like, I have these four or five non-negotiables that you need to do on my team. Other than that, you can be yourself. And I want you to be yourself because that's how you maximize your potential. So it's just that's my view of, of the state of hockey right now. And I love, I love all the levels.
I love all of them.
Jason Jacobs: And and for the youth players coming up, some people say that way too many tournament games and not enough development. And that the model should be flipped and instead of 20% development and 80% games, it should be 80% development and 20% games. Then you hear other people that say, gosh, these kids are so overkilled and they keep working on more and more and more skilled, but their hockey IQ is suffering 'cause they're not watching hockey.
And the hockey that they are watching is just. Watching Instagram clips of [01:03:00] kids doing the Michigan and and gosh, like, it's not about more and more, more it's about smarter and we should use video to isolate and then do skill development more efficiently and more simulating game-like environments and battles versus versus like sticking on around cones or doing the limbo or something.
What's your take on kind of where we're, where we're at with that and, and what the optimal balance is to maximize development?
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, I think, I think your season is what it is. Whether you're practicing two or three times a week and playing your 50 plus games, I'll, I'll use a lower number there. I know teams are playing way more than that. Some are playing less, which is fine. But I think when it comes to spring and summer, you just gotta find a balance.
I, I don't think you need to be playing every single weekend. Maybe there's a league that plays once a week that goes for 10 weeks leading into your season. I think that's great. But maybe, for me, I was always a kid who played maybe three or four tournaments a summer, and I spent a lot of time outside going to the beach, hanging out with friends, playing a ton of Wiffle ball stuff like that.
But time to be a kid. [01:04:00] But I, I think nowadays there's just so many tournaments, there's so many options. There's, and, and so many people have fomo. They're like, man, I, I wasn't at this tournament this weekend. I'm not gonna be on this Instagram account now. Because, they, they had this guy there filming stuff.
It's just like. I, I, I think three or four tournaments if you're really, a competitive hockey player and you try to design it where hopefully it leads into your season a little bit more or maybe it leads into a, a camp that you're really looking forward to, a stay away camp or, or, or, or some USAO camp that you're going to, like, I'm working with a group now and they skate twice a week, eight to nine in the morning, and, and two kids are at national camp this week and they're like, this is all I'm doing this summer.
I'm doing these, I'm doing my national camp. I got invited to a US USHL camp and I skate twice a week in the morning and I work out a ton. So I think that's a good balance especially if you have some events lined up. But yeah, I, I don't necessarily agree with the families that are maybe going a, a, tournament almost every weekend or even every other weekend.
That's a [01:05:00] lot. That's a lot of hockey. I think you need to figure out your own plan, and I think if you can somehow cut out a 10 week window where maybe you're skating once a week in a game setting. Once a week in a practice setting, and if you add a tournament or two or three in that mix, I think that's pretty healthy. But these kids, they, they need rest. They need to recover. They need to build their muscle back up to gear up for the next season. But I just see a lot of FOMO nowadays and I think the balance for me at least is find three or four tournaments, let your body grow get ready for your season. Try to find that 10 week window where you can hopefully dial it back into the hockey season.
That's my own personal opinion.
Jason Jacobs: Well, it's funny. That's getting put to the test for me right now because my kids had way at regular overnight camp for a month and, playing everything. You just being a kid, basically, like playing lots of sports, but nothing like, camp competitive, which is different than like AAA hockey, competitive, right.
And his, his his winter team has a. Summer tournament this weekend. [01:06:00] Right. So it's like all the Instagram and
yeah. And it's like, oh man. But I, I'm getting the pictures of him, you get the, like they, they send a like a couple camera people around the camp, and then you get like the they use facial recognition to let you know when, they like when there's a picture of your kid and every time we get it, it's like Santa Claus, and it's like water skiing, like standup paddleboarding, playing soccer, playing football, playing tennis, playing volleyball, playing pickleball, playing, capture the flag and it's like, oh, I wanna be a kid again. So, and yeah, and a lot of these kids are losing that, which is a bummer.
But at the same time, there's so many awesome lessons that are coming from like, learning how to work towards mastery, doing something You love that it's, it's not an easy answer. It's like you said before, it's like every after, every, everyone knows, it's like, you know your kid the best and you want what's best for your kid, and everyone's got a different path, so.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah. Yeah, I, I don't, and I also just believe that there's no rush for anything. I, I think, as long as you plan it out and design it in a way where you're get, you're still getting ready and you're still getting your reps those reps could be in your [01:07:00] driveway. It doesn't have to be at the rink. So no, that sounds like an awesome camp where he's, he's able to just be a kid and do things on his own, build his own kind of independence, and that's, that's awesome.
Jason Jacobs: I went there for six summers, awesome camp. But,
Peter Gintoli: That's great.
Jason Jacobs: yeah. And the same family that runs it too, which is even better. It's just the next generation down. But okay. Last thing. I'd love to just get your feedback on some stuff that I've been thinking about, if that's okay.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, that's fine.
Jason Jacobs: Okay. Although, it sounds like I gotta check out this 49 ing because it, it doesn't sound exactly like what I've been thinking about, but it's like.
Probably the closest thing I've heard so far. But we yeah, so I think this was born from the fact that my kid does a lot of skills stuff and as his skills have gotten better, they can always get better, but at the same time, it's like if you, if you watch 'em in a game, there's just some obvious things that it's like, like, like getting open without the puck, finding open space, like, creating opportunities for yourself.
Like, just hockey IQ related stuff that you could do that would just go such a long way. Right. [01:08:00] And and I know that like, well, I can see it and know that something's off, even though I played the game a lot growing up. I feel like in some ways I'm learning it for the first time now where I don't feel like I have a train.
I don't trust my own instincts to to isolate those and tell him. And he wants to know. He doesn't necessarily want to hear him from his dad, but he wants to know. Right. And so, we, we we paid this guy just a couple times to try out, doing, like watching film, like, clipping the shifts and then it's like, oh, like, here's how you, here's how you think about, like, oh, this one, I like that you did this, that one there.
Like, that's not a bad decision, but here's some alternatives you might wanna think about next time. Right. Stuff like that. And it's invaluable, right? But it's still pretty manual. It's pretty expensive and most people don't have access to it, right? And so it's like, all right, well, how do we get more people to have access to it?
It's like, well, for, for one, we could build a platform and just make it less one-off, like a random person here, a random person there, but it's like, oh, here's choices, right? And it seems like the hockey path is doing that, at least with current college players, right? Who want some extra cash.
But but then you've got all these former pros [01:09:00] who you know, who left the game because they have young families and they couldn't travel anymore, or their bodies were failing them, but they still wanna stay involved with the game, but they wanted to be on their terms, or they can dial it up or dial it down.
Based on when they want to without, having to, right. And so there's some folks like that, that have started raising their hands and so it's like, okay, well maybe we could bring them to the table and then I bet if you, as you started getting more of these reviews and more and more video and correlating the two, you could actually start teaching AI to, do more of it over time, at least to make the coach's time more efficient.
Not to replace the coach, but to, like they could get just as high a quality with less and less time essentially. 'cause you're taking out more and more of the grunt work, like the manual counting and stuff like that.
Peter Gintoli: course. Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: yeah. And then once you isolate this stuff, right, which would be more and more efficient over time, meaning you could deliver it better and better price points then like here.
So did you wear a whoop by any chance?
Peter Gintoli: I don't, I don't, I
know all about it though.
Jason Jacobs: Okay, so my [01:10:00] whoop and this actually just came out last night. I did an episode last night with a player development guy and works with a D one team and then a bunch of a HL pros, d one athletes and, and a, a handful of, of younger kids coming up.
But but he was saying that he pulled up a screenshot of of a writeup he did analyzing a player. It was less of a client and more like a scout, right? But like, it was like, okay, here's the player score, and then here are the subcategories, like shooting, skating, stick handling, like, zone entry.
I don't even remember what they were, but like, it was like score, score, score, score, score, right? And he's like, imagine if. You could upload three game videos, get a score, and then areas that are easy to work on, give you specific activities you can do to work on those and then, and then do it again, a month later kind of thing, and show how you're trending over time.
Right. For you, if you wanted to share it with others, you could, but but really for you and your own development. And then yeah, use AI to kind of like strip out the grunt work and lower the cost, making it more accessible to more people over time. Something like that.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah. No, that's awesome. And, [01:11:00] and within our 49 ing platform, there's actually like, there's actually an analytics
section. So it actually gives us, like the feedback on Corsi and Fenwick, which are some of the metrics that are used in hockey to determine whether a kid is like, shooting effectively possessing the puck,
Jason Jacobs: wait, what are those metrics? I hadn't heard those before.
Peter Gintoli: Yeah. There's something called Corsi and Fenwick. And I don't know off the top of my head, but I believe Corsi is like shots for, versus shots against. So there's something in hockey called plus minus,
Which is where you're on the, you're on the ice for a goal four, or you're on the ice for a goal
against Corsi is a little bit deeper 'cause there's not, there's not as many goals scored during the game.
Like maybe there's five goals scored in a game that's not gonna tell you enough, okay. I know that this kid was out there for two goals against, okay. How, what course the EMIC does is it measures shots for and shots against. 'cause there's more shots in a game versus goals. So. Let's say I'm on the ice for 15 shots for and eight shots against.
That's really [01:12:00] good. Like, that's a good, analytically, that's, that's a good number. Like I'm playing more offense than I'm playing defense. Maybe I should give up a little less shots, less shots against, but I'm still getting a lot of shots for. And then you find the players that are out there for more shots against versus shots for, so that kind of digs into that.
And then it looks at your ice time and it looks at, maybe who you play with and stuff like that. But yeah, there's, there's, there's those metrics which are really, really good. And 49 ing actually tells us like who's being effective on the ice between a couple different variables. And, sometimes we'd see some of our top players at the bottom and be like, wow, okay, what's going on here? But you can sense it on the ice sometimes where like, ah, it's just he hasn't scored yet. Like he doesn't, you can sense like, oh, he hasn't put himself in the middle of the ice. He hasn't put himself in these areas. But those are really helpful. That's really helpful information for us to be like, wow, our top players at the bottom of this.
Like, okay, let's watch some clips and see where he can, he can fix, some things and maybe it means getting in the middle of the ice a little bit more. Maybe it means just going to the net more, [01:13:00] maybe it just hasn't been around the net. So, those things are really valuable in my opinion. And, and then from there you can maybe build lines off of it and stuff like that. That stuff has always been intriguing. We worked through some of that stuff in college, but yeah, no the 40, I forgot to mention that, that the 49 does that, it has the analytical piece to it which is really, really valuable. And then you see kids that are, that are up top, but maybe they don't get as much ice time and you're like, wow, I should probably be playing this kid a little bit more.
So it's just, it can be really valuable in that, in that, in that vein.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. Yeah. And I think I'm, I'm thinking about similar data, but less through the lens of building lines and winning games and more through the, more through the lens of putting the kid at the center. And then what can the kid work on to improve themselves? So almost like, almost like neutral zone for player development instead of neutral zone for scouting
Peter Gintoli: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. Anyways, but I'll, I'm probably gonna reach out to those 49 er guys and they, they're either, they're either gonna say, well, you might do something competitive, I'm not gonna talk to you. Or they're gonna say, oh, like you're thinking about some more stuff. I'd love to talk to you. Right. So we'll see.
Peter Gintoli: [01:14:00] Yeah.
No, those guys are great. One, one of the guys was a director of hockey hops at Northeastern,
so we already knew each other.
Jason Jacobs: in Boston?
Peter Gintoli: He, I think he actually lives in Germany right now.
I think he's still playing, but it's a, I believe it's a platform out of Switzerland. And it's making its way over here.
And,
and we love, we loved it this year. It was, it saved, it saved me so much time. I didn't have to stay up till midnight ever or anything like that. Just, it saved a lot of time,
To
Jason Jacobs: else you really like in terms of tools other than 49 that you're getting a lot of value from?
Peter Gintoli: I have, I have my own like, personal spreadsheets that I use. I really just use it for for shooting. So I, I do a lot of grade A versus grade B shots. A grade A shot is in the house. Those are players that are going from the goal line to the top of the circles, top of the circles over through the dots.
Like that's the guts of the ice. Kids that get shots off in that area are valuable to me. And then, and then I look at kids that get shots off in the B areas, which is, maybe it's below the goal line, or, or on the [01:15:00] half walls, or from the point. Maybe I see a defenseman that can really get pucks through. I need to make sure he's on the ice with those guys that get those a shots off. So,
That's just a kind of a simple metric that I've used over the years where I'm like, okay, this kid really or I have a winger that can really shoot it off the rush. I need to make sure he's with a, with a, with an a shot player.
So that's one thing I use. And then I just use it for like power play percentage, face off percentage and stuff like that. But I've always leaned towards the a shot B shot thing where, you gotta make sure some of those guys are together. You can't have three a shots together, although that's pretty sweet to think about.
But sometimes you need that guy that can wire it from a different spot. And then you have other guys that are more willing to go to those other areas. But that's one thing. And then I think just from coaching development, just trying to read and, and stay connected with, with people that I trust in hockey. And not just putting it all on myself to make my own decisions or make my own suggestions, as I said earlier. But yeah, no, I think between 49 ing my own spreadsheets and then just having [01:16:00] a good feel for the game from playing those are the things I, I lean on specifically,
Jason Jacobs: Can Hockey IQ be taught?
Peter Gintoli: yes. yes. I, I, I, I firmly believe that. I, I do, I have a nice little group right now of all ISL players. And what I told them, what I told them in the beginning is I, I run practice a little bit differently. I like to use I like to use tu pucks in a lot of situations. After you shoot, I like you to start the next, the next, guy. So you're staying engaged. I think, I think where kids get lost with the hockey IQ piece is that they just don't stay engaged the whole shift. They work really hard to get a chance and then they forget to back check, or like they forget to like back check through the middle and, and get that cha another chance. So what I like to do in my practice planning sometimes is like, okay, first puck is gonna be this shot. Coming down the lane. 'cause you take this shot a lot and then, your second puck's gonna be a quick neutral zone regroup. So after you take your first shot, you need to get back. That's, that's hockey IQ in my opinion is, okay, I just took a shot.
Where's my next play? And that's the constant question you're [01:17:00] asking yourself is, where's my next play? What's my next opportunity? What do I need to do with the puck right now? What do I need to do without it? Where do I need to be? So I, I try to take a lot of pride in making sure kids get reps, but then provide some IQ where it's like, okay, I'm in this area.
I'm not just taking the shot, finish the drill. I need to get, backtrack from the middle, get a puck here, and then set the next kid up. And just. Constantly work at the same time. So finding that balance of working hard and working smart at the same time. 'cause I think you need both, you need to work extremely hard and you need to be able to think at the same time when you, when you have energy and when you're tired. So, a long-winded answer there, but yeah, you can teach hockey iq, it takes time. It's not gonna happen right away. It might take two months, three months it might take a year. And then you come back the next year and the kid, he's a junior and you're like, oh my God, he can see it now. We always joke, we always joke that kids can only see like this when they're 14, 15 years old.
And then as you get older you can, you, you tend to see [01:18:00] it a little bit better. It's a running joke that we, we use as coaches here is like, they're just not born yet. Like they're just, they can only see this right now. And then
eventually
Jason Jacobs: So you're saying as the dad of a 13-year-old that there's hope.
Peter Gintoli: there is hope. There is hope.
There is hope.
Jason Jacobs: so, for aspiring future prep school hockey players or aspiring Taber Academy hockey players, what advice do you have for them?
Peter Gintoli: Just, just work hard, put yourself in a really good situation athletically, academically. Having good grades is a huge piece of the puzzle. If, if you want to get to the next level hockey is only gonna take you so far. And just, just be a really good person too. Like find a way to connect with, with, meaning beyond a sport.
Like, make sure you know how to be a member, a good member of society. Stuff like that. I, I think we, we view the hockey player for sure. But we, we view the person almost way more. So, just be a good person, work, work really, really hard. Ask a lot of questions. And hopefully, you can play here.
Jason Jacobs: Well, that's a great [01:19:00] place to end unless is, is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did or any additional parting words?
Peter Gintoli: No, no, I think, I think the conversation went great and I love talking about this stuff. I think, I think we caught some wind there midway, but yeah, no, I love this stuff. I think you asked really good questions. I love what you're, what you're trying to do and I'm always willing to keep the conversation going.
Jason Jacobs: Sounds great. Well, Peter, thanks so much for coming on. Best of luck with the upcoming season, although I won't say that yet, since we're just heading into summer and see you in the rinks.
Peter Gintoli: Thank you. Appreciate it. Talk soon.
Jason Jacobs: Thank you for tuning in to the next, next. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did and you haven't already, you can subscribe from your favorite podcast player, whether it's Apple, Spotify, or any of the others. We also send a newsletter every week on the journey itself. The new content that we publish, the questions that we're wrestling with, how the platform itself is coming along, that we're planning to build for player development, and where we could use some help.
And you can find [01:20:00] that at the next next.substack.com. Thanks a lot and see you soon.