In this episode of 'The Next, Next,' host Jason Jacobs delves into the intricacies of athlete development with Coach Luke Strand, the head coach of Minnesota State's hockey program. The conversation explores Luke's coaching journey, the evolution of his coaching style, and the increasing role of data and technology in the sport. Coach Strand shares valuable insights on the importance of commitment, competitiveness, relationship-building, and the balance between individual skill and team dynamics. They also discuss recruiting philosophies, including the significance of character, coachability, and the evolving landscape of collegiate hockey in the face of new challenges like NIL. Finally, Luke addresses the need for maintaining a love for the game while pushing athletes to excel and the potential benefits of adopting certain changes within college hockey.
Pioneering Modern Hockey Strategies with Coach Luke Strand from Minnesota State
In this episode of 'The Next. Next.', host Jason Jacobs dives deep into the intricacies of athlete development with seasoned hockey coach Luke Strand, currently head coach at Minnesota State. As the episode unfolds, Jason and Coach Strand explore topics such as the evolution of coaching styles, the increasing role of data and technology in sports, player and coach development, and the balance between maintaining consistent standards and personalizing coaching approaches. Coach Strand shares his journey, the importance of competitiveness and character in players, and his philosophy on maintaining the joy of the game while striving for excellence. They also discuss the changing landscape of hockey, recruiting considerations, and the value of community and relationships in achieving success. Tune in for a comprehensive look at the nuances of modern coaching and athlete development.
00:00 Introduction to the Show
00:23 Meet Coach Luke Strand
01:01 Coach Strand's Journey and Achievements
01:35 Starting the Interview: Jason's Hockey Focus
04:26 Luke Strand's Early Life and Hockey Beginnings
06:52 Influence of Coaches and Early Aspirations
08:28 Coaching Philosophy and Evolution
19:17 Balancing Fun and Competition
22:11 Standards and Personalization in Coaching
28:00 The Unpredictability of Young Athletes
28:25 Attributes of Successful Hockey Players
29:51 Recruiting and Character Evaluation
30:33 The Story of Jake Genzel
31:38 Competitiveness and Player Development
33:21 Coaching Philosophies and Hiring
39:17 Technology in Hockey
42:45 Transitioning to Minnesota State
49:28 Future of College Hockey
52:09 Conclusion and Parting Words
[00:00:00]
Jason Jacobs: Welcome to the next. Next. I'm the host, Jason Jacobs. This show sorts through the nuances of athlete development through the lenses of a dad who's trying to sort through those nuances with my own kids, and also as an entrepreneur who's in the early stages of building my next company, which is a new kind of athlete development company focused on hockey first. Today's episode is with Coach Luke Strand. Luke is a seasoned coach whose journey spans collegiate, junior, and professional hockey. He's currently the head coach of Minnesota State. He's in his second year. His first year, they posted an 18 five and four overall record, and dramatically improved in year 2, 27, 9 and three.
They captured both the McNaughton cup. And the Mason Cup advanced to the NCAA tournament, and he was honored as the CCHA Coach of the Year and a finalist for the Spencer Penrose Award, which is the National [00:01:00] Coach of the Year.
Coach Strand was nice enough to come on the show and we have a really fantastic discussion, , about his journey in the sport, about his evolution as a coach. Since he does things a lot differently today than he did when he was first starting out.
We talk about, , data and analytics. As well as technology and how they're increasingly infiltrating the sport. , And we also talk about the state of the sport, the path for emerging players, and of course, how to optimize player development, both as a player trying to navigate your own journey. And as a coach.
Okay, Luke Strand, welcome to the show.
Luke Strand: Thank you for, appreciate this.
Jason Jacobs: Well, this is such a weird one for me because first of all, you know, I've only been, you know, my, my show started before I figured out what I wanted to do next, and then I figured out in the last few months what to do next. And then the content started getting more hockey focused. But it's really only been a couple months that I've been having hockey guests [00:02:00] on the show.
And I haven't had a D1 head coach yet. And you're not only a D one head coach, but I think you guys are like 13th ranked program overall. I mean, you're a formidable program. You're a CCHA Coach of the year. And and I posted an episode and then you liked it on Twitter or X or whatever it's called.
And then I was like, man, he's an important coach, and you followed me on Twitter. I was like, why does he follow me on Twitter? And I just slipped in your dms and invited you on the show. And to my shock. You said yes. So I guess my first question for you is just how the f did you find my little show and why did you say yes?
Luke Strand: Yeah, you know, it's I'm always interested to, to see what's out there you know, take a nugget from what I can and hear what I do. And the big part, it was you had, there was a little excerpt on Achieve Technologies, which I'm extremely familiar with, and Doc McGregor and I are friends and he does an excellent job.
So that, that was probably an eye-opener. [00:03:00] And then at that point onward.
Jason Jacobs: Well, I'm so grateful for you making the time. And the other caveat I want to say upfront is that I mean I played the game growing up, but I feel like I'm learning it for the first time now, given how much the game has changed. And the other thing is that my oldest is 13, so, so I'm sure when you get interviewed, you're used to getting interviewed by you know, people that.
Cover Minnesota hockey for a living or things like that. And I'm just a dad, so I just want to be upfront about that. And so I'll be inquisitive and ask a lot of questions, but if I asked any dumb ones, that's probably why.
Luke Strand: No it's terrific. It's I'll tell you, it's a sport forever. You know, it's a lifetime sport that doesn't matter whether you matter where you're coming from. It just doesn't, it's, it matters how much they love it and enjoy it. So, whatever I can do to help.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. And that is one cool thing about it too. It's just so leveling as well. It's once you get in the rink, it doesn't matter anything that's happening outside of the rink. You know, whatever background you come from, whatever you like. I mean, I have parents that I've been buddies with for years and not once have we ever talked about what do we do for work?
Nobody cares, you know? It, I mean, [00:04:00] in the rink it's just, you're in the rink. So, I guess my first que Oh, did you have a response to that before I jump
Luke Strand: No, it's just, you know, hockey's time. I mean, the parents the commitment the player commitment, the time commitment. But I truly do believe that's what makes hockey pretty special. The idea that commitment and that passion that it takes to get it done. You don't find people that are being successful in the game with, without it, you just don't.
Jason Jacobs: Well, my first question for you is did, how'd you find the game and how'd you fall in love with it?
Luke Strand: Yeah. You know, Wisconsin, you know, living, growing up kid oddly enough, I'm a, I was born in the Philippines Air Force brat, so then when we moved to Wisconsin older brother played probably couldn't ditch me fast enough. I just hung on to whatever they were doing. We lived across the road from an outdoor rink, and it was kind of the only, only rule we had as a kid was when the light went on outside the house, it was time to come home from the rink.
And that's what we did. We, [00:05:00] from, it felt like the outdoor rinks were always going in November. They'd last until maybe February, and I don't really remember missing a day or any of the opportunity to be just. Farting around on the rink, being around older kids learning the game through your eyes and experimenting.
And pretty soon he was organized and pretty soon they're really blessed with great youth coaches that, that just instilled that same philosophy, the passion the practice. They made practice hard but fun.
Jason Jacobs: I know from my research that you were a multi-sport kid, a big baseball guy as well, if I remember. Were your parents athletes and what kind of guidance did you get from them in terms of oh, guidance slash pushing? What was their philosophy when it came to sports?
Luke Strand: No. I mean, there wasn't a lot of sport and you know, dad, I think did some speed skating on the river type thing and played outdoor. Nothing organized. They were, you know, mom was gonna be, she'll be 92 here coming up in, in at the end of [00:06:00] August, which my father's passed away for a while now in 1999.
But what they were unbelievable. They were backers, they were my biggest fan. They were Sure. Did they push you? 'cause if you're committed to something, you're gonna do it. You're gonna do it, right? Yes. Were they forcing the idea of getting No, we're just active kids and like I said, if there was probably a bigger, it was my brother who was, like I said, five years older.
So everything they were doing five years ahead, I wanted to be able to do it my age. That was a deal. And I'm sure they got plenty sick of me. They tried to ditch me a few times and run me through some bushes and other opportunities that they could do to lose me. But it was just that's what we did.
We played sports. We didn't you weren't inside. We didn't really have video games. We didn't, you know, we were, we enjoyed our outdoors, we enjoyed our hunting, our fishing, but. Man, we are on the ball diamond, the football field and a hockey rink nonstop.
Jason Jacobs: I also read that, well, when you're a little guy, you you, I think you had to write for school or something what you wanted to be when you grew up and you put either fireman or [00:07:00] coach I mean, turns out obviously one of those things happened, but what was your journey like as a player and I mean, from a young age, it sounds like you had coach aspirations but when.
Like how did that, how do, how did those intersect and when did they intersect the coaching and the playing.
Luke Strand: Yeah. You know, grade five, that was the paper I wrote. Obviously at grade five that would've put me 11, 12 years old. Usually kids at that point are aspiring like, I wanna play in the NHL. I was like, I wanna be a coach and I could even, I could tell you this, I, the reason why I wanted to be a coach is.
Unreal youth coach didn't matter the sport in, in baseball. Bob K Jim, how unbelievable, knowledgeable, passionate they were. They were dads of buddies of mine, but they were really good in the sport themselves. Football, we had, bill Brim was the high school coach who was so good to us as kids.
We got to be around the high school football field and it didn't matter if we were picking up pads. It was a big deal. And then, you know, youth, mark Fais and his brother Kenny and [00:08:00] those guys and Steve Chap and Dennis Fox. We were just really stupid.
Jason Jacobs: all these names, by the way.
Luke Strand: Oh man. That's why, I mean, I can tell you that's what their influence was on me to want to do this.
I mean, PKO Hanley was my band coach, my junior hockey coach. We later go on, I'm gonna a gold medal together and World Junior Select. So it's just I was really fortunate. So I think that the fact that I wanted to be a coach was influenced because of the people that are around me already being great coaches to me.
Jason Jacobs: When you think about what it takes to be a great player versus what it takes to be a great coach how much overlap is there and where do the differences lie?
Luke Strand: It's a tricky one for me. I mean, I think there's obviously a lot of talented players that went on to be really talented coaches, don't get me wrong. But there's a lot of guys that that didn't make it maybe as players that I think that the trick there is we observed the game through a different lens.
Even when we were playing, we were [00:09:00] watching maybe players with star power and figuring out what they were doing or vice versa. If you didn't have star power, you're figuring out a way to still impact games and make a difference. So, and then you found out, I think, you know, a lot of the, you know, I think, I bet you find a lot of coaches that were captains leaders, they were in those, they were being molded younger in their careers even as players that, that will later go influence how they become a coach. But there's that many players that get outta the game. I think they're all pretty shocked about the amount of time it takes as a coach versus the amount of time it takes as a player.
The coaching time is way more immense than the player side.
Jason Jacobs: Well, I've also heard you talk about how, just how different your coaching style is today versus when you started coaching many years ago.
Luke Strand: Oh, all day. I mean, I actually, there's times where I feel bad for guys. I, nah, I don't feel bad. I mean, yeah, I do. I feel bad for guys. I coach maybe early because it was, [00:10:00] I, I was maybe not as far along in the relationship business as I was. Like, the knowledge was easy. The x and no, the, that part of hockey is, I think any sport is easy.
It's. It is the belief in the relationship business that now is at a high priority. That when you do that, I think, you know, you're constantly working on trust and you're trying we just move at the speed of trust. So, you're just always trying to bridge those gaps in between performance and people.
Jason Jacobs: You, you mentioned a bunch of names when you talked about the coaches that influence you along the way. I'm curious, so they all have similar coaching styles, the ones that influence you the most, or are they wildly different?
Luke Strand: Oh, I would say wildly different. I mean, my high school coach in hockey was Tom Kuklinski, who was hard. I'll never mean I love the man to death today when we see each other and it is like he's a father to me now at the time. You are like I don't care if this [00:11:00] guy I ever see this guy get in my life, but the second you're done the life lesson reverse mode comes in and I think you're.
You're just so fortunate. And that's, I think a lot of our coaches, they were, they were blue collar guys that, that, that worked, that demanded a standard to be kept. And I think when you're a young player it doesn't matter now or then you probably didn't understand the love that was going into it as much as you knew the sweat and you knew the tear part of it, but you didn't understand the love part of it.
Now, when you put on shoes now as a coach if you're not coaching with love and passion, I don't think you last.
Jason Jacobs: And I mean, it does feel to me like the, coaching has evolved quite a bit. I mean, you hear the term thrown around like old school coach, right? And I mean, to me, the old school coach was like you know, yelling and screaming and barking and. Kicking trash barrels and breaking [00:12:00] sticks over the bench and bag skate till you puke and and stuff like that.
Do you feel like there's still a place for that style in the game? And and similarly, and I don't know why I always ask my questions in twos, but but do you feel like there are tenets that all great coaching has in common, or are there many different ways to skin a cat?
Luke Strand: There's probably a little bit of different ways to skin a cat. I think some of the things you spoke of as far as the ramp side of life and that side, I mean, we know we grew up, we did things because like we, we were told to. Now if there's a huge, the why is everything. And I think you, when you've got a standard that you want to keep and you've got a demand that you need to have to keep that standard.
If you've got the trust and if you've got the love and if you've got the passion from the player because you've relayed that to them to first I think you're going to succeed. It used to be tough love. I mean, that was like the big comment. You, oh, it's just [00:13:00] tough love. I think you have to love tough.
That's I'm opposite now as a coach. Like they have to know that what it's in, what they're in for is going to help them not only now, but success later in their life. Then I do think at that point they'll do a lot of things that are probably outta their comfort zone to want to be better people, better players.
Jason Jacobs: Coach, I've also heard you talk about how I think the danger in, I'm gonna not word it quite right, but the danger in not keeping things simple. Right. And and so how do you think about the balance between keeping things simple and being a student of the game? Being a student of training, being a student of mental performance, being a student of nutrition, being like, 'cause if you're a student of all these things, it's not really keeping it simple, right?
And so, yeah. How do you balance like mastery and excellence with simplicity?
Luke Strand: Failure. I think that's part of it. I think you've gotta fail forward. You've gotta fall down, you've gotta get back up, and you've gotta not you know, there's the old, [00:14:00] it's a great book if you're a reader, it's called the Twin Thieves. But fear failure, fear of judgment. You've gotta let.
They've gotta let kids fail. You've gotta teach them how to not fail, don't get me wrong, but they're probably gonna skin their knee. It's not going to, it's not gonna hurt them to fail forward. It's gonna encourage them hopefully if you handle it the right way. On the simple side of things I just, I mean, our room, like when we get here as a staff and we're, you know, round rock hockey buddies, like there's, we get together as hockey guys on the off season, you can get pretty deep in, in down a rabbit hole as staff members and peers.
But I think when you've gotta go out and present it to, you better have a very clear, concise manner that allows room for. I'm in the messy practices. We're not gonna be the sexiest practice team in the world. We're not I know I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask our guys to do things that aren't comfortable enough to be.
Straight, clean all the time. You're hoping that the [00:15:00] messy turns cleaner and cleaner as it goes. But the first dose of it, you know, we're going into the season now, we're gonna get into entries and breakouts immediately, man. And they're gonna be some grenades thrown around the rink instead of clean play.
It's gonna happen, but we have to go through that growth moment to get out on the other side. So, and I think on the simple side though, for me, it's just if I want guys to do things faster, stronger, harder, with more intent the simple path has gotta be available for them. Otherwise, they'll think themselves into a corner.
Jason Jacobs: Give, given that, how do you balance, and planning with with reading the room and reacting as you go. As a coach.
Luke Strand: That's a great, that's a great question. You gotta be not, you can't be stubborn as a coach. There's gonna be times where, you know, you put your coach hat on and you're like, I we're gonna get this done today no matter what. It might not be the day for it. No [00:16:00] matter what your plan was. The guy's plan the eyes of the room the mannerism, the temperature of the room, I would consider it.
We know there's a lot of talk out there like coaches, were thermostats. Like we, we get to set it. So whatever they're capable of, you gotta find that, that edge for me. And it might not be everything you want to get done today, that's all they had in their tank, but you better have a plan to recover from it as a coach and you better have a plan that is very clear for the player.
'cause I think when those two match then you're in a really good place.
Jason Jacobs: And I think similarly, you've talked about how every kid is different and you gotta get to know them as people and they have different. You know, they're gonna respond to differently. So some, you might be able to call out in public, whereas others, you wanna give them a warning privately that it's coming and stuff like that.
So I think my question there is, on the one hand, you've got this story program that has a brand, that has a culture, that has values, that stands for something in keeping that consistency of brand across the team. [00:17:00] Recruits, alumni, current players for everybody. It's you know, it's like this is the team way, right?
Versus everybody's different and everyone needs to be treated different. And so I guess how do you balance that kind of consistency of standards with that personalization that you've discussed in the past?
Luke Strand: Oh man, there's, it is fair versus equal. I mean, that's just where we're at with sport. I think that you gotta have that. That put out there it's not always gonna be the same. I'm not I think if, you know, if I went back to the twin thieves of fear of failure and judgment I've got a job to prepare.
If we're gonna watch a video and you're not gonna succeed in that video. In my eyes, maybe in your eyes you did succeed. So I better figure out what you are feeling on this for my education. Maybe in your mind it was the right play. Maybe in the team game it wasn't the right play. But if I go in there and just blast out the eye, this is how we do it.
I think we're [00:18:00] gonna go backwards as a group because no one's gonna want to, who wants to make a mistake when all it does is show up on the bulletin board? That's not, that's going backwards in my world, in my mind. Now if you want to keep repeating the same mistake over, then there probably is a huge disconnect between the, between either.
Philosophically or individually or, you know, coach the player to coach. But as, as far as the other side of it is the standard's, the standard. I don't the standard's, the standard. If we're I'm all for individuals inside of, it'd be like me having a ranch. Like I can't have all the same horses on the ranch, but they're all inside the same fence.
So can you let the player be an individual and have individual skill for team value? That would be the number one thing. And they hear it pretty constantly. I don't wanna take the stick outta their hands. You know, same thing, it's paintbrush. I don't know who, who told Picasso he was a good [00:19:00] painter.
I don't know if someone did or if he just kept experimenting and going and going and so we gotta get that experimentation. You've gotta get that failure and you've gotta get the idea that. You. You need to practice your individual skill, but we have to have team value with how we play and what we do together.
Jason Jacobs: I've been having some fascinating discussions on the show with some. Coaches. So for example, I had Freddie Meyer, who is a Rivers head coach and played in the NHL and was four years at BU and an All American. And you know, just sent three kids from his river team to the NTDP. And but for him, he talks about how important it is to keep the game fun.
And if it isn't fun, it's defeating the purpose. And oh, by the way, not only is it defeating the purpose, but you're not gonna get the best out of the kids. And so all his practices are centered around fun and joy and yeah, they battle, they compete, they're held to high standards, but he's all about keeping it fun.
When I think about what it takes to be a division one college player in a storied program at that [00:20:00] and how the road is getting so much harder and there's scholarships and there's NIL and it's in some ways it's becoming a business, right? At what point does it switch from something that should be fun to it's a job, bro, if you don't perform like.
You, you don't make the cut. Like how, like where does fun fit in for you and where doesn't it fit in?
Luke Strand: Good. It's there's a crossroads. I mean, guys in the NHL are playing for a contract. They're playing for a paycheck, they're paying for taking care of their family, but they're gonna go out and have fun doing it. They're more, more likely to succeed when they are having that. So, you know, I think, you know, in, in his case where they want to have fun and.
Fund's a factor. You can be as competitive as you can be and still have fun. Can you manipulate a scenario where it's a fun scenario, but it's still gonna get you better and it's still gonna be competitive. There's still gonna be a winner and a loser, but there's still gonna be a, an a joy that you get out of it.
I do think that's our job [00:21:00] as coaches to find that sweet spot, no matter the level. We keep competition points here day to day. Every day you're up, there's points on the board. If you're in purple, you and you guys win a small area game, like you're gonna get a point. And if you're in gold and you won two games that day, and the other team, anything we did for points, you're gonna get a point.
At the end of the month, we'll take collection of who's got the most points and. There's a time where the guys don't look at the practice plan. They look at what points are on the line that day, and that's kind of where it's at. So I think if you're getting the athletes that, that want to become players that really want to come they're gonna, they're gonna find joy in competition.
They're gonna find joy in, in the sweat and the work as much as they're gonna, you know, it's not all laughing and giggling. Fun can be a lot of different other, I think avenues besides that side.
It's more fun to be treated the right way than and go to a hard scenario than it is treat [00:22:00] someone poor and have 'em go, have fun.
That that's not gonna work. I think you, it's the opposite way. I, you can, hopefully, your job is to make them feel like they can do anything because you've treated 'em the right way.
Jason Jacobs: Back to the personalization versus the standards thing. I would imagine that being a D one college player is more or less a year-round pursuit. And obviously there's, you know, breaks and recharging and all that, but that the expectations are I wanna hear from you but they're, you know, probably just as high or almost as high in the off season as they are during the season itself.
How do you think about, again, standards and formula and here's the plan we're gonna follow in the off season as an example, versus each player kind of finding their own way and some grinding and some not, and some. Doing more on ice and some doing more off ice and some doing more cross training and you know, others working on their edge work.
Right. Like how much structure and guidance you provided and also how do you think about balance, overuse injuries, burnout and [00:23:00] how much do those factor into the plan?
Luke Strand: I think we like our summer formula. We've, you know, they're here. We have got our guys here for seven weeks in the summer, kind of the July four kind of splits it in the middle. They've had, they would've had, let's say, four to five weeks off prior to when school is out to, we report and then they'll have another four weeks off before they report back to school.
So I do think there's a mix. I think the summer's about the individual. I think the summer is about individual. Can we make you a better player? Can we make you a better person in the summer? The framework of workload and the framework of sweat equity. We talk about spilling sweat here all the time.
That framework is gonna exist, there's no question. But if you've got more to do with your power index has gotta go up because of where you're at in your physical maturity or injury.
Jason Jacobs: metric? The power
Luke Strand: It's, and we [00:24:00] achieve will generate part of it, that's for sure. But we wanna make sure that when we report back and we get going, that the best version of you is available.
And I, I think that ownership that you take in the summer of your own, how much better you can get in the summer that ownership is on, you will put the framework out there. You've gotta, I mean, we can all go in the gym, but we both can go in the gym for the same amount of time. Somebody can come outta there with more work done than the other.
We can do the same exercise for all I care, but someone's intensity inside of it's gonna get more done. And I think that standard for us to keep up with your peers and the peer pressure, which I think is so important that the peers are, they're all doing it. I think that's where you make some diamonds in the summer, in the off season where guys can come back and flip the switch and be a different version, a better version of themselves.
Jason Jacobs: When you look at the standard that these division one college players are held [00:25:00] to how do you think about that standard trickling down to the youth level? What elements of that standard are relevant as you go down the chain and get to the younger players and which elements are too much too soon?
And would you know as a coach? How do you know as a mom or dad how do you know as a player? So I think that's, I mean, speaking personally with a 13-year-old who's my oldest and feeling my way in the dark as he's coming up in the game, it's pretty confusing.
Luke Strand: The number one standard. If I was a youth coach, I would keep, no matter what is time matters. If you're late, you don't care for me. If you're late, you show a lack of something and there's some other avenue you're thinking about doing time as a standard that it either writes a passage for passion, and it writes a passage that you want to get better, or it's showing a story that's just not important to you.
That standard of time. And that's a huge part. I also I would tell you that I, [00:26:00] I think the standard of of a younger player. Wanting to get better. They're all gonna, you know, I think it's easy for people to look at their, they look at their buddy and whether their buddy might be 20, you know, 20 pounds heavier already and three inches taller.
I mean, you've gotta be for a coach and a young and a parent I think if they can keep a standard of time and a standard of love and passion and they gotta be good dudes. There's a lot of good players that aren't good people that aren't gonna last very long. There's a lot of good people that aren't quite the player that will become a better player because they're good kids, they're good dudes.
They want, they wanna learn how to get better. And that other standard would be coachable for me. They gotta be coachable. They gotta be able to take instruction criticism. I think they're gonna learn how to, and the parent has to learn how to shut their mouth at the right time. Let the kid enjoy the journey a little bit.
Don't correct them before, [00:27:00] go back to that skin the knee thing. Like they gotta fall down to the skin of their knee as a kid. They just do. And then I, but I think being coachable is a really huge attribute for a young athlete to learn. And that doesn't mean they have to just learn it from, if it's hockey we're talking about.
It's not just a hockey coach. That was the best part about growing up for me, playing multiple sports, was multiple coaches, was multiple philosophies, was multiple ideals multiple, you know, demands. I think it really taught you to be coachable because of, you weren't just getting one voice, one direction to you, you were, it was being spread onto you.
Time, love of the game and being coachable. Man, I don't know what would stop somebody from really taking off.
Jason Jacobs: You hear some people talk and they say, oh, this player or that player, from the time they were a little guy, they were always playing three levels up. You just knew from the time they first put skates on that they were gonna be someone great. And you hear from others that who cares, who's great when [00:28:00] your ex age?
Because it all changes anyways. Like they haven't gone to puberty. Checking hasn't started. Girls haven't come into the picture. Distractions haven't come into the picture. You don't know what they're gonna want. You don't know how their body's gonna grow. None of it matters. Are there, do you have views when you're, you know, when you're watching the younger players, like how young is too young for you to even try to understand and what are the things you look for and at what age where you start kind of taking notice and following along?
Luke Strand: Yeah I bet you the successful player though, has some attributes that could. They could find their way through re they could find their way through you know, their attributes of being coachable, their attributes of trying things. And I think, you know, when you get into hockey, if we're talking hockey specifically you know, are they willing, like I could keep being the same way or can I experiment and get better?
You know, these kids now, the hockey IQ part, if it can match up with skill and ability, it, you know, it takes some, you gotta watch the game. [00:29:00] I that if there would be one wish for kids, it would be to go watch more sports, like actually go to a hockey game and don't just be busy in line and Snapchatting versus like actually observe and take in.
And maybe we were fortunate as kids, we didn't have that maybe as a distraction, but you go to a, you'd go to a baseball field, you'd watch a player like play third base the right way. You'd watch a player attack a pitch the right way. Now half those things are missed because they're farting around on their phone versus maybe dialing in.
So I think they've just gotta be around it. And I would tell you, I wouldn't discourage the kid that's behind maybe, or in somebody's mind behind. I think those probably need some encouraging, but I would be a very subtle reminder to the kids are ahead or ahead for a reason if you wanna stay ahead.
Just some things you gotta get done.
Jason Jacobs: When you think about recruiting, what are the things that are necessary for the potential recruits to [00:30:00] have already, and what are the things that if they don't have, it's oh, I care less if they have that, because as long as I'm confident they can get it, then I can work, you know, we can work with them to develop that aspect of their game.
Luke Strand: Man character. I mean, you gotta, I do some digging on people and kids, and I know it's an old thing to say, but like the janitor, the teacher the find out, like how they treat people. It's a really good measuring stick. When we find how people, how kids treat their parents, how that interaction is is usually a pretty good tell and compete.
I'll use this story. So this is maybe Sioux City, 2009, 10. We draft Jake Genzel. Gen is a runt. He's a Woodbury. Bantam gonna get drafted in the USHL. He didn't really draft bantams at that time. His father, Mike, was actually the coach of Des Moines. I remember calling Mike saying I'm gonna take Jake with the next pick.
Like just for a heads up. So you [00:31:00] take him. And the reason why is I had seen Jake be the small brother to Ryan and Gabe be the most competitive kid. Didn't matter 'cause he was smaller by long, he was a small band player. His competitiveness to be the best player, a rink rat with an IQ that was just flat out competitive.
I'm like, I don't care if this kid gets an inch bigger. He is gonna be better if this kid gets three inches bigger. Watch out. And those are think are the things, when you start to watch kids, you always hear the parent, you know that's out there. That's kind of. They call BS on the kid. That's pretty rough and tumble and competitive as a young guy.
And they're like, I don't really like little Johnny. 'cause Johnny is, he's dirty. Well, is Johnny really dirty? Or is Johnny just really competitive? It's hard to teach, compete when you get that mannerism about you as being a competitor. You want to surround those people with other competitors.
And I think that does rub off on people. A [00:32:00] competitive person. I, not to be that way, but I do feel we can make somebody a better skater. We can make somebody a better passer, a better shooter. We can make, it's hard to make better IQ and hard to make better competitors. So those are early attributes you try to look for.
Jason Jacobs: How do you think about things like size and age?
Luke Strand: If they're getting closer to me, like us like we've got, I'll use, we've got Alex Berg here coming in. Zs is a. Five eighter, maybe five niner. If we had a whole bunch of five Niners, maybe I'd worry about it. But if we've got enough balance in size then I think we're good. I think when you're talking size and age, I mean there's this guy on Florida named Marshan who like is a absolute, he's a, he is, he's a rat.
I mean, obviously he still plays so hard, so competitive. He's, I, he's so such a usable player. When you watch him play in bigger moments, he's even a better player. [00:33:00] But someone along the way couldn't count on his size because he obviously kept doing things over time that, that market champion and mark a winner.
So I don't really get caught up in, in the whole size. There's that old, it's the size of the heart, not the size of the man type thing. So I think you gotta find that balance.
Jason Jacobs: So, so one question I have, I don't come from the coaching world, but I've I come from more building companies and in building companies as a founder, there's different philosophies. On the one hand, there's the founder, it's you know, founder as dictator. And it's if you have too many chefs in the kitchen, it's gonna dilute the outcome.
It's gonna slow you down. It's gonna create more bureaucracy like, you know, like Founder's hand should be in everything, and Founder Veto is a thing. And then there's other founders whose philosophy is much more of hire, you know, hire people that, that have the founder mindset themselves and get outta their way and let them run.
How how do you think about your coaching [00:34:00] philosophy to, to stick with that analogy and is there a right and a wrong way to think about that if you're trying to coach a winning or storied program?
Luke Strand: Yeah I, if it went to hiring coaches for me it's people, you're hiring rate people. There's probably some sort of. I hope there's enough of me that rubs off on what happens and how we do things and why we do things. And there's enough philosophical share. But at the same time you hire people you trust, you hire people.
Like I I'm so crazy fortunate to here, like Keith Paulson, my assistant first vehicle ever drove was their vehicle. Is just take my kids to the rink, use our truck when you need to. Troy Ward was a long time, he believed in me before maybe a lot of people did as a coach. Now he's here with me on staff Cory McCracken.
I, it didn't matter. I got the right people around me. I thought that was really important. You know, I think there, you hire people to do a job and you sure do. I have some [00:35:00] things that I believe in the we're gonna do. Yeah. But are there things that I'm a lifetime learner that you gotta keep curving and doing?
I truly would say yes to that part. And then. End of the day, if you, I mean, your job is like hire people that can do the job. If I was to, I wanna hire head coaches, I wanna hire people that could sit in the chair and handle the seat. Like the heat of a head coach chair is different than the heat of a assistant coach chair.
So fortunately for me, like all of my staff have been head coaches before, it doesn't really matter the level, but they've been head coaches that, that makes my chair a little bit. 'cause there's times when we can look at each other and they'll make the comment like, well that chair is different than, my idea is in this chair.
Your idea is coming from that chair. There's a balance there. So I think on the founder side, like the ownership side that they have and the ownership side that they take, it's really important. It's a shared, [00:36:00] shared deal. If it goes the other way, then I'm probably doing it the wrong way for me.
Jason Jacobs: So back to my little tech startup world, there's debate about, you know, as AI makes things more efficient and automates more things, on the one hand it makes people's efforts go further. You know, takes grunt work off their plate, makes companies more efficient and profitable. And on the other, you know, it takes jobs, right?
Or at least some jobs. When you look at some of the changes that are happening. So if you look at like the Canadian major juniors, and it, it seems on the one hand it is making sure that the best talent ends up playing in at the division one level, and therefore it will. Grow the strength of the talent and grow the game.
If you're a US player coming up maybe it makes for a tougher road. How do you think about the changing landscape and the harder road, and do you see it as a, you know, how is it a good thing? How how is it not a good thing and [00:37:00] also for whom?
Luke Strand: Oof. I don't think any two pass the right thing for you might go play for x, I might go play for Y and it could be the best decision for you. And best decision for me. And sometimes I think people right now are chasing the idea because you go play for X. Well, if you do, I'm do, I'm going to, well, that doesn't make it right or perfect for me as it would for you.
So I do think that, I think the opportunity to the player pool to expand and be good I mean everyone's talking about how it might hurt the American player. Why don't we see like it could make our American player better because there's gonna be some more opportunity and big picture of things.
There's more junior opportunity. There's more. I think if you really want to be the American player, that there's probably gonna become a little more determination that's gonna happen. I mean, for me, I just, I've seen enough to say [00:38:00] that wherever you land is, you gotta make good of that spot. It might be right for you and wrong for someone else, or vice versa.
And your job to be there is to take advantage of what's given to you and what you're earning. So, I mean the landscape is going to, I'm sure continue to change, evolve. If I was a parent of a young lad that was doing those things, there's a lot of fact checking to make sure, and I think just because it didn't work for somebody doesn't mean it's not gonna work for you.
And because it did work for somebody doesn't mean it's gonna work for you. But it's gonna be a grind, man. There, there's no elevator. The elevators are out the door. I mean, that's this place is, you know, we all want to win. I, we're like, who am I to say we're gonna play against college teams that have, if I use the word salary cap for the right reason, we're gonna use, we're gonna play against teams that have a way larger salary captain.
We do. But our job is to go beat those [00:39:00] teams, so we gotta find the right dudes. What's that? Is that Morlin that said, doesn't matter how many soldiers love matters. Who? So get the right guys.
Jason Jacobs: So, we've got about 12 minutes left. A couple other topics I want to try to sneak in if we have time. One, one is just that, I mean, hockey has a reputation for being a bit tech resistant relative to some of the other sports, whether it be baseball or soccer or others. Do you. I think that reputation is warranted.
And if so, how are you seeing that changing? And similarly, I'd love to just hear a bit on how you think about technology at Minnesota State.
Luke Strand: Yeah I'm kind of the opposite. I'm a nerd, like I am. I'm into this I mean, day to day here if you can't use Excel, you're gonna be in trouble. I know that part. I think there's a lot of number balance to what has to happen. For example, I mean, oldest companies we use fast Model's, got a great platform for some practice things, some designing [00:40:00] things that we utilize 'em for.
We use exos with our video, like stream and video editing. There's lots of great programs out there. There's lots of great companies. Sports Code, exos, like there's just the numbers. 40 nines become a big thing.
Jason Jacobs: Had Mike Jameson on the show, actually, I haven't shipped it yet. He's their head of sales. He was the director of Hot Gaps in Northeastern. I don't know
Luke Strand: Yeah. And there's, I mean, there's some really good things. I think if there's a stubborn part of technology that I'm still into the hands-on, like I want to, I'm not into the numbers that get generated by someone that I don't believe in that I don't know, if we're gonna talk scoring chances, like I believe what we consider a scoring chance to be, a scoring chance what some AI generated scoring chance to be.
I can't say I agree with them. There might be some I do agree with, but there's gonna be some I just don't. Because I think you gotta find that anytime you use any of these analytic numbers, the consistency is the what it is, information in, information out. So if the information in is not consistent, [00:41:00] then how can you ever balance the information that comes out and say it's the same.
You know, we use. We use a company called Bench Metrics. Bench is a way for us to collect a lot of data. It, again, same thing in it's information, in information out. If you're inaccurate putting it in, you're gonna get squiggly numbers on the way out. You don't want that. I'm a huge fan of Doc McGregor and Achieve, for me, it's the next level of what has to happen.
I mean, I'm, we use it for practice planning. We use it for player performance. We use it for tracking trends. I've been fortunate enough to use it internationally where you're at a short track event and it really told me a story. Freshness and readiness for players. Recovery for players we're very you know, on that part.
And then there's platforms for us to. You know, gain more video. Is it flow? Is it insta? Is it some, is it sport logic? Is it different things that think can bring more information into your into your hockey world, [00:42:00] into our office? So all that said, a lot of that happens behind closed doors to the players.
I don't think they need to watch all the video we do. I think when we find something that's a pattern they need to find out about it. And
Jason Jacobs: I, I remember your quote. It was like it was like, they they, they fear the needle, not the doctor. Did I get that right?
Luke Strand: everyone's afraid of the needle, not the doctor. When you go to the doctor's, fine, but they pull out the needle full of information. You're like, oh boy. You know, and that's been a experiment. I think you gotta find a balance of meeting size, meeting information duration, you know, there's that old deaf by meeting thing.
We do meet our share here but I think that's we, you can meet more if you meet with less duration.
Jason Jacobs: So my last question is, we really haven't talked much about Minnesota State and and you inherited a program that had been transitioned quite well from a coach who was in the role for quite a long time and had [00:43:00] a great run. I'd love to just hear about that transition, like when you came in you know, was there a period where you intentionally did nothing and just learned when you started making changes, like where did you start?
What things did you keep consistent? What things did you put your own stamp on? Just like. How did you handle that? Because you've even taken it to a new level. And I think for any of the coaches out there, and for me who's not a coach and is just really curious about it, I think it's just a fascinating case study that would be hugely valuable to get inside your brain since you from a distance have done such a great job managing that transition and taking the program to the next level.
Luke Strand: Yeah. Well, thank you for that. I mean, I think one of my staff that's a big part. When I got the job one I would tell you my casings and staff were phenomenally. This place was pretty equipped in, in a good spot. Like they, they'd done a lot of foundation work his staffs over time from Darren Blue to, to der to just all the way through seamlessly [00:44:00] groan.
So that part, they left that in a good spot. I would, you know, it's everybody's job, I think, to leave the cover a little more full and a little better spot than when they got it before. So they definitely did on that side. I interviewed the players that had played here that I was very heavy into that, like what they liked, what they loved, what they'd get rid of.
I wanted their input. I wanted. You know, if they like something, what they like, if they love something, why'd they love it? And if they wanted to change something, do they have a suggestion what they would've done different? Or is it just it didn't work? Because you do get that point. I think you get some guys that are like, timeout.
I didn't like that, but other guys did. Because it maybe didn't work for that person. It wasn't like a whole blanket. So I think you had to be a little bit aware about that part, but that took a lot of inventory as far as what was here. I think it took some time internally. I was unbelievable. Scott Ride out stayed our equipment manager who was in charge of equipment, Matt Schmidt stayed, who was in charge of human performance or athletic.
Or athletic trainer. [00:45:00] Those two stayed. And they had tons of nuggets. They had tons of things that, you know, in their rooms and I think it doesn't matter the level in their rooms, there's a lot of conversations that happened. That, that they've got good intents. They listened to what they need to.
So they shared some really vital pieces of information. I was fortunate enough, I had some former players of mine that had played here prior to me getting here. That already had served me some things along the way. 'cause when I got the job, it was pretty bang. People were quick to acknowledge the idea.
I had a couple teammates of mine back in the day that played here that we'd played junior hockey together. I thought that information was good. And then I really, there was, when I got the job, Alex Tracy, our goalie trace, was here as a goalie. We had won a Clark Cup together in Sioux City and the USHL.
His, he had a lot for me. Brendan Olson had played for me in Sioux City. Those guys had a lot to say. The first thing I did was I brought [00:46:00] in players that had played for me before. To help me. I think it probably swayed the pendulum culturally pretty quick. 'cause those guys, it, it was pretty easy to see who guys would say what story I'm gonna do about this or what's it gonna be like tomorrow after we won, or loss or whatever.
So I thought those guys did it really nice job about putting up some expectations. And then our doors open up here. I know every coach says oh, my door, I have an open door policy. And some people have an open door policy that's a crack open. That's really not open, that's actually open.
Ours are very actually open. So I just think relationship building was so big. And then I was fortunate that first summer when I got the job here, it was, you know, it had happened in April school was ending. I'd hired a completely new staff, a new strength coach. And I went out and got people that I knew believed in.
Brett, my strength coach is a [00:47:00] star. And he hadn't been in this position before and he had a lot of growing to do, but was willing to be coachable and learn and wanted to get into it. So I thought that as a whole, but I would tell you then the bottom line here in Mankato, Minnesota, the community backing, the community surrounding the, I think the people that were in place, hasty, done their unreal job with probably getting the right players on the chess board to be involved.
Now it was like I need to listen to them too. 'cause they have great ideas. They're in your shoes. They're business owners. They're founders. They're passionate people that have other passions just besides Maverick hockey, but maverick hockey's part of what they believe in. So to listen to, I think a lot of that, and you can't find me, I, for me, you can't find a good coach.
That's not a, probably a good listen. Or the ones that probably are not, aren't gonna last very long might be the underlying factor. And so it was just a combination. And then, you know, we're fortunate [00:48:00] hired a director of hockey operations 'cause everyone had ta his credit, like Mike had taken a lot of people with him when he left here to go to Wisconsin as he built up his closet of people here.
Like he, he took them with him. And I, it's hard to say why that you wouldn't do that. It really can. You want to get the hit, hit the ground running, bring you, bring people to know what's going on with you. So I, I was fortunate when the deck cleared that you know, Tyson solder our hockey ops, he had been around here, helped out a little bit, but everyone's what are you hiring him for?
He's not in that, he's not ready for that role. I'm like, where is he the right teachable guy that really is in the right guy for that role? So we've been fortunate. It takes a village of people. But I think when we changed that feeling like Mike had a good standard about what they, how they did things and there's definitely things you wanted to add and subtract and I didn't, I can tell you this, when we got here, like I didn't change a thing around here.
I mean, I put up what I believed in standard and [00:49:00] culturally on the walls and things, but you know, you don't build a culture because it was a sign on a wall. So, but I kinda left a lot of things the way they work. 'cause they had gone the good way. But I really dug into the people that have been here.
Jason Jacobs: Oh, well thanks so, so much for sharing that coach. And yeah, I, amazing job. And I think that's gonna be really helpful too, as I said, for any coach who is walking into a similar situation. Last question. I've never asked this before, but this is the first, maybe it even becomes a standard depending on how this goes, but if you could wave your magic wand and change one thing about the sport, what would it be and how would you change it?
Luke Strand: At this level in college.
Jason Jacobs: You choose, could be college, could be sport overall. Just whatever comes to mind. What would you change?
Luke Strand: That's a, I think it's such a flowing manner. Like times have changed the game. If you went to the game of hockey, I love that the pace has gone up. I love that the integrity [00:50:00] of hockey has kind of, pretty much stayed intact inside the boards. You know, I wish college were advisors that would be something for me.
I wish we didn't wear masks. That would be helpful. I think just policing the game a little bit, I think you'd have a little different flavor of game at times. If I had a wish, I'd say college. I think college hockey should play 40 games, not 34. I think we could manage that with some, with still have an academic and graduation expectations and still finding that it's the longest sport on campus.
So I do think there's probably room for some more game side of things. Love the idea where our guys are. Are you used to, I think you used to find college hockey was a place where guys went and got a degree and then they were kind of out of the game. Now you're finding this is a major breeding ground for a player to be a pro and.
That part, the more influence that has, I think the more better players are just instilled into the game and the programs, [00:51:00] it's so healthy. And then lastly, I mean, I hope the, I don't know if the NCAA figures it out and whatever, but I think there's gotta be, there's gotta come a point where there's a salary cap, but there just, there does.
And if it's, if people really don't want that, then you're gonna find a
Jason Jacobs: cap with the NIL you mean?
Luke Strand: Yeah. Just in, like a program has extra spend and that's what you spend. That's it. And if you can make your room special because you spent your money on that, great. That's great. But but as far as player procurement goes I just think they're, you can't have unrestricted free agency and no salary cap and make something be sustainable.
I think it's difficult. So I hope we can find you a balance of that. And there's probably room for some more, some NCAA expansion in our sport, which I hope happens. I think if we got to a few more games and a few [00:52:00] more clubs out there, hopefully the NCAA tournament field gets a little bigger. 'cause that opportunity to play in the NCAA tournament is pretty special to him.
Jason Jacobs: Okay. Well coach, this was such a a fascinating and far reaching discussion.
I'm so grateful for you making the time. Is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did or any parting words for listeners?
Luke Strand: No, just you know, we're grateful. I think the sport, the more tension the better the job that gets done about it, the better spot it'll be in. So, thank you for having me look forward to more episodes out of you and more guests and that I can learn from as well.
Jason Jacobs: Thanks again and best of luck in your upcoming season.
Luke Strand: Thank you.
Jason Jacobs: Thank you for tuning in to the next, next. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did and you haven't already, you can subscribe from your favorite podcast player, whether it's Apple, Spotify, or any of the others. We also send a newsletter every week on the journey itself. The new content that we publish, [00:53:00] the questions that we're wrestling with, how the platform itself is coming along, that we're planning to build for player development, and where we could use some help.
And you can find that at the next next.substack.com. Thanks a lot and see you soon.