In this episode of Puck Academy, host Jason Jacobs sits down with Francis Anzalone, a seasoned hockey coach at various levels, and COO of TPH (Total Package Hockey). While Jason recently had the TPH founder, Nathan Bowen, on the show, Francis brings quite a different perspective from growing up as the son of well-known coach Frank Anzalone to transitioning into a successful coaching career himself. With experience coaching at various levels from AAA to national teams, including the Latvian U-20 team, Francis delves into his coaching philosophies, the evolution of the sport, and the nuances of player development. The discussion covers the challenges and opportunities for young players and the critical role of environment in nurturing talent. Additionally, the conversation touches on the impact of changing dynamics in youth hockey, including the increase in parental involvement and the complexities of navigating the current hockey landscape. A great discussion for anyone trying to sort through these nuances yourselves, or helping others to do so.
Navigating the Path to Hockey Success with Francis Anzalone
In this episode of Puck Academy, host Jason Jacobs interviews Francis Anzalone, Chief Operating Officer at Total Package Hockey (TPH). Francis shares his journey from growing up as the son of renowned hockey coach Frank Anzalone to becoming a successful coach himself. They discuss his coaching philosophy, the evolution of hockey, and the challenges today's aspiring players face. Key topics include the importance of perseverance, individualized coaching, and balancing player development with winning. Francis also touches on the role of parents, the impact of the transfer portal, NIL, and the changing landscape of youth hockey. The episode underscores the significance of creating positive, growth-oriented environments for young athletes. 00:00 Introduction to Puck Academy 00:15 Meet Francis Anzalone 01:20 Francis' Coaching Journey 07:21 Francis' Coaching Philosophy 10:46 The Changing Landscape of Hockey 13:53 Parental Involvement in Youth Hockey 19:29 Navigating the Hockey System 26:02 Individualized Coaching Approaches 32:39 The Debate on Natural Talent vs. Development 35:43 Debating the Role of Volunteer Coaches 38:23 The Importance of Fun in Youth Sports 42:33 Balancing Skill Development and Team Concepts 46:15 Winning vs. Development in Youth Sports 51:16 Parental Involvement in Youth Sports 53:44 Navigating Player Development and Coaching Challenges 58:02 Balancing Academics and Athletics 01:01:37 Impact of Recent Changes in the Sport 01:06:54 Final Thoughts and Advice for Parents
Jason Jacobs: [00:00:00] Welcome to Puck Academy, a show about how hockey players grow on and off the ice. I'm Jason Jacobs,
the host, and each week I talk with players, coaches, and experts shaping the future of player development. Today's guest is Francis Anzalone, or Fa as he tells me. He likes to be called Fa, uh, whose father is actually Frank Anzalone, a very well known, uh, coach, um, of in college and pro, or while Francis was growing up.
And when Francis turned, I think it was 18, uh, took a shot at coaching and he hasn't looked back. Uh, he coached AAA hockey for the Pittsburgh Junior Penguins back in the day was with the, the Cedar Rapids Rough Riders in the UAHL for several years, uh, as a regional scout and assistant coach, and then head scout.
He was associate head coach and then head coach at the [00:01:00] Aberdeen wings. He coached at the Shreveport Mud Bugs. He was the coach in the U 20 division for the Latvian national team that won three silver medals in four years, competing in the one A division at the World Junior Championships. And more recently he's been Chief Operating Officer at total package hockey.
But at any rate, fascinating discussion growing up in the house of a, of a well-known hockey coach, uh, Francis' transition from playing to coaching. Uh, and Francis talked a lot about how uh, through perseverance he's made a name for himself in the sport as a coach without necessarily playing the game at as high a level as typical for the levels that he's coached along the way.
And we have a great discussion about his coaching philosophies about how the sports evolved under his feet in the decades that he's been involved. About some of the experiences he's had, the patterns that he's seen in the players and teams that he [00:02:00] works with, and also his thoughts on where things are going and uh, and where academies fit in, where prep school fits in, where Juniors fits in, and what the path looks like for aspiring players who are in the process of navigating it.
Great discussion, and I hope you enjoy it. Okay, Francis Anzalone, or fa as you told me to call you, which I, I don't feel comfortable calling you 'cause we're just getting to know each other. But, uh, I'll try it. Fa welcome to the show.
Thank you, Jason. I appreciate you having me on.
I, I can honestly tell you that people that I've known less than you have called me fa. So, but does that make it okay? We're hockey people, so as you know, we're, we're nicknamed people. Very few of us call each other by our first name. So the way I look at it is we're, we're creating that sports and, and hockey vibe here today, which I know you love to do.
I do,
Jason Jacobs: yeah. And, uh, I'm excited for this one. I mean, I, I recently had Bo uh, or Nathan Bowen, uh, on the show. And, and, [00:03:00] and I know you guys have been in the trenches together at TPH for a long time, so a little bit overlap in terms of the company, but such different paths and, um, and such different guys. So, uh, I'm really excited to hear more about your journey and thoughts on the game, especially I should add, after doing a little prep, because when you, you know, when you get up and speak to people, you get real animated, which I love.
I, I kind of do too.
Francis Anzalone: It's not everyone's vibe. I'm a big believer that all of us can grow, improve, adapt, evolve, but I think to an extent, you know, we are who we are and we need to be who we are. And yes, more often than not, I'm, I'm more on the emotional side versus the reserve side, for better or worse.
Jason Jacobs: And also, uh, quite a student of the game.
I can tell from, from watching. I mean, even some of the stuff you did on the, I forget what the channel's called, but there was a channel where you kind of review what's happening with Pittsburgh, you know, Pittsburgh hockey, [00:04:00] uh, and, um, and, and I love the breakdowns.
Francis Anzalone: You really did your homework. Um, yeah, I, I, I, I'm a student of the game.
You know, I, I grew up in a hockey household. My father was a college and professional hockey coach for around 40 years. I'm 38, just turned 38 last month. And I'm extremely grateful to say that, that even to this day, he's my coach, my mentor, my best friend. I played hockey growing up, but I didn't play it at the highest level.
So, as you know, Jason, when you wanna maybe turn sport into a career, but you didn't play it at the highest level, you have to overcome the challenges of that by being a student of the game. Um, I'm a lifelong learner. I'm a sponge. I'm like a lot of people. I just, I try to get better every day, maximize the opportunities that are, are in front of me.
And I, I've just been so grateful to be around the game and around sports my entire life and the last eight years with TPH. Really see it through a [00:05:00] different but extremely valuable lens.
Jason Jacobs: I mean, I've heard you say on uh, uh, on prior stuff that, I think it was around age 18 where you started transitioning to coaching.
Maybe just talk a bit about your path to the game before we get into your thoughts on the game.
Francis Anzalone: Yeah, well, as I said, I grew up around that. I was a goaltender. Uh, I was always at the rinks with my father. We moved around a lot. So the relationship, I'm an only child, but me, my mother and father had, was very, very key because as you know, when you're changing schools and there's a lot going on in that side of your life, having a really solid home base and home life can do a lot.
Uh, so I was very close and still am to this day with my parents. I was a goaltender, played in some non-traditional hockey environments, just moving around as the kid of a coach, played in some great very traditional hockey environments. I lived in, in Lowell, Massachusetts, somewhat up your way for a bit, which was [00:06:00] great.
Hockey driving 10, 15, 20, 30 minutes down the road and having all these teams to play. I was like a kid in a candy store moving from Road to Virginia, where when I was there, they had just started youth hockey. And then we, we moved from Lola Mass to Florence, South Carolina, which was a great place to live, but in many ways completely different youth hockey environment for a 11, 12-year-old at the time.
So we moved around a lot. I swore I would never coach when I was in my teens. I was actually way more into broadcasting, believe it or not. And then when we were living in, uh, Johnstown, Pennsylvania, I somehow got involved in hockey instruction and coaching at the local rink. Was very, very fortunate to coach like Banham a double a hockey when I was 19 years old.
And then when I was 20 or 21, like I thought I hit the jackpot because I was asked to coach triple A hockey in Pittsburgh. And that's where I met [00:07:00] Bo Nathan Bowen. That's where I had the opportunity to work for Cedar Rapids in the USHL. I went from being a scout to an assistant coach full-time, and, and the rest is all history.
I've, I've caught some great breaks and I've been fortunate to meet some really great people inside and outside of the game. How would you describe your coaching philosophy? Oh, geez. We'll, we'll probably need two hours for that. I never quite know how to answer that question. I think sometimes the best people to answer that question are the people that have played for you, worked with you, and know you best.
Because at the end of the day, and I, I think you'd agree with this, Jason, it doesn't much matter what we say. It matters what the people that we lead here and absorb. Uh, but if I had to give you an answer to that question, I would say that I'm, I'm very, very hands-on. I care very much about development. I feel that a coach has a responsibility to impact the individual, maximize the group, and really [00:08:00] help the players.
Learn to love the process and love the game more when they leave than when they arrive. So for me, if I'm coaching when I get up, most days I'm challenging myself. How can we impact the individual? How can we maximize the collective? And what can I try to do today to help the players with the process and create an environment where they love it a little bit more today than they did yesterday?
Those are kind of the three boxes that I try to check. As you know, Jason, we don't always check 'em, but that's what I try to do every day and I try to build everything I do around those three things, individual team and loves for better or worse.
Jason Jacobs: And I know you've got the COO title at at TPH. Um, how much are you coaching these days and in what other ways are you engaging, uh, within TPH?
Francis Anzalone: Yeah, I'm extremely fortunate that I. [00:09:00] I'm in a very multifaceted role. I get to wear a lot of different hats, go in and out of a lot of different lanes, whether it's recruiting and business and sales, operations, quality control, process, procedures, infrastructure, working with our people, which is one of the most enjoyable parts of the gig.
To be very candid with you, I do very little ice hockey coaching on a yearly basis. Now, I'm very fortunate to coach our TPH entry in the OHL Cup, which is a pretty big time event. I don't know if you're familiar in Ontario, TP historically one of the only, usually one or two US based entries that get to go to this event.
And I, I was extremely blessed for five years to serve on the south of the Latian under 20 national team, where, where all we would do is get ready for short term events like the World Junior Championships. So the OHL Cup to me is like a mini version of that. [00:10:00] We prepare for it really 10 months out of the year, we treat it like our, our cherry on top of the cake, if you will.
That's the extent of a lot of the ice hockey coaching I do. I get to coach and work with a lot of our people who then get to coach and work with a lot of our student athletes, which is exciting. And I also am really fortunate, I've had the opportunity to build a mentorship program, like a, a leadership course that we use on our TPH academies.
And that keeps me plugged into our student athletes, the generation and the challenges and the obstacles that they deal with today. Because as you know, uh, being a parent, a student of the game yourself, there's a lot of them. For the athletes coming up today,
Jason Jacobs: I mean, the games change so much from the time that you know, that you were growing up with your dad coaching to today, um, what are the biggest changes that, that you see and.
And how do you feel [00:11:00] about them?
Francis Anzalone: I think one of the biggest changes that I've seen to the game itself, like what goes on on the 200 by 85 when the puck drops because you know, there's the game inside the glass and then there's the game outside the glass. But in terms of the game that that goes on, on the ice at nearly all levels, it's just faster at times, way more reckless, way less calculated.
There's definitely an influx and a priority today on skill. So I've just seen over the years, you know, from when I, I started watching hockey in the nineties when, when, remember when the NHL was on Fox and then into the early two thousands, like I've just been fortunate, as have many to watch the game get faster and in so many ways better.
That's the biggest change I've seen is the emphasis today on speed and the importance of skill. Now I think that that skill is an interesting term. I think there's hard heavy [00:12:00] skill and then there's light, soft skill. But there's no question that speed and skill are at a premium today. And if you watch the game, a 12 U AA game now versus 20 years ago, a national hockey league game now versus 10 years ago, I think in general most would agree you're gonna see a faster product.
Jason Jacobs: What about the path coming up in the game? How is it the same? How's it different
Francis Anzalone: coming up today? There's just a lot more noise and clutter. It's a lot harder for players and for parents to focus on the process, to focus on the journey, to focus on the individual. We're constantly, we have information around us left and right.
What is this player doing? What is that player doing? What's my next door neighbor's path? What's my teammate's path? And it's, it's very, very easy to get focused on as the great Bill [00:13:00] Parcells would say, the periphery. I think that when you come up today, as much as you gotta have a wide lens to take in information, learn, grow in some ways, being like a horse with blinders, having tunnel vision on is a good thing.
Just focusing on what's best for your kid. You know, if I'm a an individual hockey player, what's best for my path? It's harder and harder today to just focus on the things that you've gotta do to make it the process. It's, it's way easier today to focus on just the outcome, just the destination. And if you don't get to where social media tells you, you should get to, for example, or where you think you need to get to because someone else has gotten there.
It's not the end of the world. Everyone's path is different.
Jason Jacobs: Do you think parents are far more involved today? And if so, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Francis Anzalone: I think they are [00:14:00] more involved today because it's just, it's easier to be more involved today, for example, and, and you know, this being a hockey guy and a hockey dad, you can probably, you can watch your kid every practice, every game, every workout without even being there.
Now with in rink cameras, stories on social media, youth hockey organizations are trying to control their narrative and tell their stories. So in many instances, the things that they're doing throughout the night or throughout the day are being broadcast on, on Instagram or TikTok or Facebook Live or whatever the media and mechanism is.
So I think naturally parents have opportunities to be more involved. Today, I think a lot depends on the actual parent. I'm not sure that in some instances, even though parents see it more, hear it more, feel it more, I don't know that they're absorbing it as much. And I think that that's just more of a byproduct of the world that we live in today.
We're so [00:15:00] bombarded with information, but I don't know how much we absorb. So I think I, parents are seeing as much as they've ever seen. I think they're hearing as much as they've heard, but I don't know how much they're absorbing it all the time. I think because all of this information comes out into the open, do coaches still spend the time having one-on-ones with parents, having one-on-ones with players?
It's a, it's a question that, it's a great question. You ask. I, it, it, there isn't a clear universal answer for me. A lot of it just depends on the situation, the organization and the parents themselves.
Jason Jacobs: And a, a related question, but with parents more involved and, and again, with the caveat that more involved doesn't necessarily mean.
More, more informed or aware. Does that change the why for a lot of kids in terms of the reason they do the sport, the reason they work so hard, the, the reason they're playing year round, the reason they're going to all these [00:16:00] tournaments? Like does the, you know, is, is the why coming from a different place and, and, and is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Francis Anzalone: I think in many instances it, it is coming from a different place. I think that the number one question that a parent should ask their child on a daily basis, and I don't mean to preach here, but whether they're an athlete or not, is what you are doing. Hockey, basketball, dance, theater, whatever it is, is it bringing you joy and are you getting something out of it?
I think if more parents asked their kids that question about, let's just say youth sports, they would learn a lot. When they drop their kid off their at the rink, they'll know their kid really wants to be there or doesn't really wanna be there. Because if you don't enjoy what you're doing, if you don't have passion in for what you're doing, how are you gonna absorb it or get anything out of [00:17:00] it?
So in many instances, I do think the why has changed and I think the number one thing parents can do to make sure that their why and their child's why are in sync is ask that question, does this bring you joy? Now they might say, yeah, but it's hard or, but the coach is on me today, right? That doesn't mean that they should quit.
That doesn't you, that the parents shouldn't bring them to the rink anymore. What parents need to do, I think is get to the core most days, does this bring you joy? If that answer is yes, I think the kiddo's on a good path and is gonna find success in some way, shape or form, and the parent will be happy to.
Jason Jacobs: Going back to something you said before you, you said that the game is faster and more skilled today. I agree with that. I think that, um, one, one implication of that is that [00:18:00] there's more of a rat race to keep up with the Joneses so the kid doesn't get left behind. Uh, which then inevitably involve the parents going out, you know, being more involved because it's their wallets and their time and all the logistics involved and interfering with their job.
And there's just more stakes, right? Because they're giving up more to make it work. So the fact that the game is getting more skilled, it's almost as keeping up with the Joneses. And I get rationally that that's not healthy. But at the same time, it also feels like there's polarization where the. Teams that are on the fa it's like it all, uh, like it all is self-reinforcing, right?
Because, um, you know, who do the, who do the, who do the best hockey schools go after? They go after the kids coming from the best clubs? Like, uh, so if you want your kid to be at the best hockey school, they need to be in the best cl you [00:19:00] know? Right. So it's like, it all kind of flows. And then if, if you're not on the train right, then it's like you're off the train.
And if you're off the train, then it's just about fun because you're not gonna play the game at any compelling level in the, in the future. So like, that's the system we're in. We can, you know, we, we can talk about the health of the system, but then we can also talk about. Whether people opt in or opt outta the system.
And I don't have answers on either one of those, but I'm, I'm, I'm, but I'm, but, but like, it's complicated and, and it'd be great to just kind of listen to you untangle that and, and reflect upon both the system and the role of the, you know, of the parent in navigating that system on behalf of their kid.
Francis Anzalone: Well, I'll throw this out there. And this is just my perspective growing up around the game. My role in TPH, seeing things through different lenses. This is, this is just my viewpoint, I think 25 years ago. This is true, [00:20:00] I think 25 years from now, this will be true when a parent is evaluating where should my kid play, which many parents are doing right now.
And as you know, it's happening earlier and earlier. I mean, parents are talking in September of the current year, what team their kid is gonna try out for or play for the following. They're not even 15 games into the current season, but I understand it to an extent because it's around them all the time.
You know, coaches are bringing it up, parents are being asked about it. So it's, it's partially Jason, the world we live in today. So I get it to an extent, but I think the two most important criteria when a parent is assessing, who should my kid play for? Who should we try out for, et cetera. I think the two most important pieces are this.
What peers are they gonna be around on a daily basis? In other words, who's my kid gonna be practicing up [00:21:00] against and training with every day? And who's the coach? What's the coach's background? What's the coach's moral fiber? What's the coach's style? What does the coach believe in? That's like one A and, and one b for me.
Uh, some days, uh, the coaches one and the, the, the other players are two. I flip back and forth. I think those are the two most important pieces is, is the league in the level important? Sure. Is the strength of the schedule important? Sure. But I think the first two pieces are important because one, a great coach can make a huge difference and a bad coach can delay the development process, if not sideline it completely.
And I, I would ask you to consider this, if the last place team in the National Hockey League right now, or at any level, practiced every day with the first place [00:22:00] teams, players, I think that in and of itself would accelerate develop. So who your kid's going to be around every day is really, really important, I think.
And these are just, these are just two points to me that fall under the umbrella of an environment. The environment that they're gonna be in is the most important thing because as you know, they're not all gonna make it to the highest level. But what they learn in that environment is really, really key.
My father used to say to to, to coaches coming up and I used to hear him say it every day has gotta be your NHL. 'cause not all you coaches are gonna get there. I might not get there. And it's interesting, pat Sweer, who just led Western Michigan University to the NCAA National Championship, he actually played for my father in Roanoke in the ECHL back in the 18 hundreds.[00:23:00]
I heard Pat say at a coaching conference, treat every day like you're in the NHL 'cause we're not all gonna get there. So to me, what's the NHL like environment that my kid is gonna be in? 'cause if it's a good environment, they're gonna be in the NHL every day. I know, I know that's hard for some people to absorb.
I, I understand it. We're all human, but that's what I believe
Jason Jacobs: some people have caught on come on the show and said things like, you want to dominate at the level you're at before you move up. What's the rush? Um, what I'm hearing from you is if you played around better players, you'd get better faster. So, um, uh, I guess reconcile those two statements to that, that first statement about the, you know, you wanna dominate the level you're at and what's the rush?
Do you agree or disagree with that?
Francis Anzalone: It's gonna sound like the political answer. That's not my [00:24:00] intent with this. I think that it varies based on, you know, each and every individual. I'll give you an example. If, if a player's identity is that of. An offensive, creative, skilled forward. We're just talking hockey now.
I thrive on playmaking. I thrive on offensive production. I think there's a case to be made to stay at the level you're at. Still learn the other side of the game, of course. 'cause you're gonna need that to make it. Absolutely. But dominate, which is a so-so term and arrive over ready because when an athlete moves up too quickly and doesn't have confidence, especially when it's that blueprint of player that I just described, it's hard for them to keep [00:25:00] moving forward.
I think that if you have a different type of player that is more of a role player, more of a two-way player. I'll throw the term grinder out there. Bottom six forward, bottom three forward, uh, uh, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 defensemen. I think in some cases they can move up a little bit more quickly because they know who they are, they do what they do, and for them to check their boxes on what makes a successful game, it's a little bit simpler.
It's a little bit more black and white. So it's a very long-winded way of saying that. I do think it depends on the individual. If you had asked me this question seven years ago, six years ago, I'd have said Absolutely dominated at the level that you're at and then move up from there. I, I think it's different based on the [00:26:00] individual.
You know, like as coaches today, we, we have this standard that applies to all of them, but we've gotta be able to coach them 23 different ways. If I'm a, if I'm leading a TPH academy with 40 student athletes in it, I, I might need 40 different ways to reach every individual. We're very much in an individualized world today, and, and I understand it.
I, I think every kid is different. I, I really believe that, Jason, I, I don't think there's a universal formula or answer to that question,
Jason Jacobs: and I'm sure you're gonna say the same thing about this next question, but I'm gonna ask it anyways because I think it's an important one. Uh, you know, growing up you tended to play for your town and you tended to stick with the same kids, you know, give or take.
Maybe there were, you know, one or two kids that didn't quite make the cut and, and, uh, you know, one or two kids that, you know, that made the cut for the first time. But, but, but for the most part, it was kind of the same core at your birth year, every year through town, no matter how good you were or how bad you were, right.[00:27:00]
Now everything's more transient and everything's more kind of ranked and people are doing crazy stuff like moving their whole family for little Timmy's, you know, uh, 10-year-old AA hockey or whatever. What are the good things about that, if any, and what are the bad things about that and how do you feel about that trend in general?
Francis Anzalone: Yeah. I think it goes back to what's best for your kid. What's, what's best for your situation. Like, I guess I would say this, if if you're gonna move out of a really good hockey market or a really good situation to go to another hockey market or another situation, you better be really sure, and you need to go in with your eyes wide.
What is the message that you're receiving? What are the promises that you're being given? Because I see this thing go off the rails in a hurry when parents buy into things that coaches and leaders can't really promise, like no. [00:28:00] A coach can't really guarantee ice time. Things are gonna change throughout the year.
Things are gonna change throughout the course of a game. So be be very, very guarded. People that promise like end results and quantifiable outcomes versus opportunities to earn them on your hard work and merit. When parents start moving, the family taking on second mortgages under that umbrella for that reasons, and they align those, they align to that type of LLC or way of thinking, I think there's usually a lot of pain, heartburn, and aggravation at the end of it.
So just be very mindful of the environment that you're going into. Ask tons of tough questions at the beginning and don't fall into the promise trap because you're gonna be let down. When that pluck drops or when that season starts, Jason is, you [00:29:00] know, everything changes what was once black and white becomes gray in a hurry and I just don't wanna see parents, families, kids get hurt over that 'cause it's a reality of our game.
So just have your eyes wide open on the front end.
Jason Jacobs: And relatively, um, I mean the sport's increasingly getting more privatized and, and I mean it's far worse in certain regions like the one I'm in than than others, but I've been hearing that even in the regions that historically have avoided that. It's starting to seep in there too.
Um, what do you think about that trend?
Francis Anzalone: Well, I think back to how Thunderer hockey, which was tph H'S AAA hockey program back in the day. Like when I met Bo Nathan Bowen and Bo eight, I think it was. He was coaching and running at Thunder. Thunder hockey was created in the southeast, so the [00:30:00] kids in non-traditional markets and they'd have to drive, could come together in centralized markets and do the two things that I talked about early, play around other good like-minded kids, and play for a pretty good or really good coach in a program type environment.
If you are relocating, if you're traveling, if you're making the investment for that, because maybe the market or the environment that you live in doesn't offer you those things, that's the reality of what you've gotta do. If one, your kid finds a ton of joy doing what he or she does, or two, your kid wants to climb the ladder, but what, what sometimes puts me back a bit, Jason, is when you have a kid that's.
A really good environment with lots of opportunities, lots of teams to play for, lots of [00:31:00] quality programs, lots of quality coaches, and they move out of that environment. They change schools. They go into a maybe a living situation that's not the best for them or their family, and they're doing it because they've been promised something that my opinion really shouldn't be promised and the parents should know better.
That's when I get concerned for the parent and the family, and that's where there's often one of my favorite words, residue at the end of it all and can see this. They bop around and before you know it, you have a 16-year-old hockey player that's played for four teams in four years and probably didn't need to play for four teams in four years.
Maybe could have played for two teams or one team. Again, every individual is different, but that situation that I just kind of described, that's what I worry about for kids and families today. [00:32:00]
Jason Jacobs: One of the things I love about this show is that by talking to lots of different people, I get lots of different opinions.
And when I find ones from two smart, well-placed people that directly seemingly contradict each other, I would call that a knot. And then I just use the show to kind of like, uh, you know, try to try to like work through the nuances and, and undo the knots, right? Um, and, and just get to the truth. Or at least like have a more informed perspective on these issues that, uh, there's whiplash, right?
Because you get these wildly conflicting opinions coming at you. So I got a couple more of those that I, I'd love to use this opportunity to sort through with you. Um, one is. Some smart, well-placed hockey people say, oh, like 95% of it is just like you, you know what you're born with, right? And uh, and like certain kids have the magic and for everybody else, they're in that messy middle and like, you know, they should see how far they can take it, but it's like the long game and they shouldn't be optimizing for, for the sport.
Then there's another group of people that [00:33:00] say, um, the best 10-year-old isn't the best 12-year-old and the best 12-year-old isn't the best 14-year-old and the best 14-year-old isn't the best 16-year-old. And you just don't know. Right? Like, how do you reconcile those two statements and, and you know, can, can, can they coexist in, in one truth?
Francis Anzalone: I think most athletes playing at the highest level today probably had a little bit of a sprinkle when they were younger. But I don't subscribe to the belief that you either have it or you don't. And if you don't, you should retire. Or if you don't, you should walk away because there's far too many examples.
Far too many case studies of kids cut when they were younger, not playing at the highest level. They stuck with it. They had really good coaching, really good parenting. They found joy in what they did, and they started climbing. There's just too many [00:34:00] examples of that to say that you either have it or you don't.
I mean, like Connor McDavid, when he was 11, he had that sprinkle, he's got it now in his twenties, coming into his thirties. But there's just, there's far too many examples of people that made it, and it didn't come easy. They had to work, they had to grind, they had to catch a few breaks along the way. Shore, Michael Jordan, the world's greatest example, was cut from his high school basketball team.
So if we're gonna say that you either have it or you don't. We gotta like throw that example out the window and that's one of the best examples that there is. So I'm not a big believer that you, you have it or you don't. If, if that was the case, I, I, I don't know how we, like, I don't know how we as coaches would spring outta bed every day to try to make them better.
Like, I would never shut that door for a kid. Now I, I think sometimes you, you gotta get a kid or a family in [00:35:00] line with, with realistic expectations. But if they don't have a dream, if they don't have a vision, if they, if, if they don't have a why, I don't think they're gonna be very fun to coach. Do you,
Jason Jacobs: another one that is on my mind is recently, um.
People have said, oh, like so many coaches out there, like they just aren't equipped. Like, you know, they're volunteers. Like they maybe didn't play at the game at the highest level, or, or maybe they did, but it doesn't translate to coaching because coaching and playing aren't necessarily the same. You have, you know, great players who aren't good coaches and, and great coaches who weren't good players.
Um, or, or sometimes it's both, right? Um, but it, but like, just 'cause you're one doesn't mean that you're the other, right? But one narrative is we need to equip the coaches, or we need to supplement the coaches because they don't know what they're doing. Someone said to me the other day, the opposite.
They're like, actually coaching's better than it's ever been before. And if I could change one thing, it would be getting more people into the sport and keeping more people into the sport. And it's got nothing to do with improving the coaching or more resources for the [00:36:00] tippy top. It's just about like, uh, increasing the funnel and then decreasing the churn.
Um, what do you think?
Francis Anzalone: So the people that complain about the volunteer coaches, my response to them is, do you wanna do it? Because you can volunteer and sign up too. So without the volunteers, our game is not where it is today because you know, too many organizations can't pay coaches, too many organizations don't have the resources at too many towns or locations.
Don't, don't have the hockey people, for example, that, that have platooned in that have the background, have the experience, have the presence. So without the volunteers, I don't think our game would be where it is today. Here's where I think it becomes problematic, Jason, and this is just my viewpoint, this is just my perspective.
When a volunteer coach or a youth hockey organization says no to really [00:37:00] good help, like we'd like to come in and work with your coaches, we'd like to come in and coach your coaches. We'd like to come in and give you resources. I think when those coaches or organizations get stubborn and they say no to.
People who can help, whether that's a paid helper service at a really affordable price, or someone that wants to come in and just genuinely help. I think when the ego gets in the way, that's where it becomes problematic on the volunteer front. But without the volunteers, I think we're screwed, at least in a lot of places.
That's just my opinion. So I think you have, and you gotta be really careful about evaluating the coach until you're in the coach's shoes. Some of the best lessons that I learned coming up came from volunteer coaches who had great life perspective and great life messages, and when, when someone came along that wanted to help those [00:38:00] volunteer coaches be better coaches, they took that advice, they took that help because they wouldn't have gotten to where they were in their business if they were close minded.
When the volunteer becomes closed mind to the youth hockey organization says no. Out of ego territorial. Whatever it is, that's when I think it becomes problematic. That's just my take.
Jason Jacobs: Along similar lines, another, um, you know, kind of whiplash topic is development, right? Because there's people that say that in order to develop, you gotta make it fun.
It needs to be free play. We needed to go back to a time where it wasn't so structured, where the stakes weren't so high, where you can just go out and experiment and try stuff and feel free and fail and, you know, like just have fun with your buddies. It doesn't seem like work. And then you have like more, more the Kobe bar, uh, Bryant narrative about like, you know, like every extra rep you do, like that compounds and the more you grind when nobody's watching, right?
And it's like, uh, you know, specialize [00:39:00] this and specialize that. And how can you ignore edge work and how can you ignore the gym? And how can you ignore nutrition and how can you ignore this? And how, why don't you watch film? Right? Um, w what do you think
Francis Anzalone: that stuff's fun for Kobe Bryant? That's the mamba mentality.
He loved it. That, that brought him joy. He learned that somewhere along the way. So I think you've gotta do what's stimulating. You've gotta do what's energizing. I hate to go back to this, but you've, you've kind of gotta do what, what brings you joy? If we're, if we're talking about youth sports, if it's not this over here, maybe it's that over there.
I think it's important to have purpose in what you do. Uh, you know, it's interesting. We, we, we love small gains in hockey today and, and I use a lot of small gains too in training. This goes to the first part of what you sent, but I'm a big believer in the [00:40:00] part, whole part method. So, um, you've got your drill, then you kind of do it in a game-like environment.
Call it five on five, then go back and do it as a small gain. Or or, or do it as a drill. Do it as a small game, then do it as a whole game. I think you gotta touch all three bases. One of the things that I worry about is there's all this talk today of small gees. I think sometimes what coaches will do though, Jason, is they'll just go online to the Google machine or they'll go onto Instagram and they'll just pick out the four best small games that they found and they'll throw the puck out and the kids just go play.
And what happens is, is they don't really retain anything. Like some of the best coaches I see they run a small game for 10 minutes and they coach the small game. Like they, they let the environment do the coaching, [00:41:00] but they're not afraid before they blow the next whistle to send the next group a six out or whatever it is to yell out one or two points.
Or they've got an iPad and they're filming the small game and they go over to a kid when he comes. She comes off of, of her shift and, and shows 'em a thing or two, or they film the practice. Like I think it's important to have purpose in what you do. I find the part, whole part method is a, is a really good way to do that.
I've done that with short term events, so I think it's if, if there's purpose and the kids are stimulated and they're growing and they're learning and they're confident, they're gonna stick with it longer, but I also see, you know, oh, that's a pretty good practice plan. I'm gonna run that with my team. But is it what your team needs?
Is it what your kids need? Is it, is it age appropriate for your group? That gets back to environment and coaching for me.
Jason Jacobs: How much of this is age appropriate? Like, is there, is there an age below which, like, we shouldn't be talking [00:42:00] about any of this stuff. And for example, uh, I've come across on this show, uh, and in my travels, people who played the game at a very high level who won't let their kids even play club who, who have, you know, a 10 and an 8-year-old because they don't think it's healthy and, and they don't think it's best for long-term development anyways, even from a hockey standpoint.
And then other people who've played the game at a very high level, you know, who, who have their kids in the, in the club dev programs when they're, you know, when they're, when they're, when they're barely outta diapers. Uh, what do you think?
Francis Anzalone: I think that a lot of this is age appropriate. I think that USA hockey has done some, some great work on this front.
Jason Jacobs: And that's with the, with the A DM?
Francis Anzalone: Yes. I, I, I, I don't think kids should be doing at eight. What some kids are doing or learning at 16. Okay. There's, there's, there's no question about that. I'll share this with you and, and, you know, you could tell me what you think or [00:43:00] perhaps throw this with, with, at some of your other guests.
'cause you've, you've had some pretty, really smart, impressive people on here. And again, this is just my perspective and viewpoint. There's skill which we talk about regularly in the game. The skill is only part of this. There's skill and then there's habits, concepts and details, habits, concepts and details is not team, system and structure.
That's a completely separate neighborhood, a very important neighborhood, but a separate neighborhood nonetheless. And I don't think that team concepts and structure is as important at nine and 10 as it's gonna be when they get to 14, 15, 16 70. So, you know, defensive zone coverage. Is a system, it's a team concept, but within that, for example, are so many important habits, concepts and details, stick positioning, [00:44:00] stopping on pucks, for example, not turning your back to the play.
The number one rule in hockey is always face the play. Why can't we teach that concept to a 10-year-old? I think we can. So what I like to see is skill, skills, habits, concepts, details, all the way up the team concepts, the team structure a little bit later, what I'm always interested to look at when I watch the youngsters is, you know, are they moving?
Is the practice engaging? Uh, are they, are they, are they skating? Like, absolutely. But I'm also curious to see what coaches kind of subtly start to throw in. Some of those habits, concepts, and details, because the younger, we can get that in front of them. I think the more we're gonna accelerate development in an organization, I'm a big believer you gotta be able to skate, shoot, pass, handle the puck.
No question about that. But you know, like at TPH, we talk, at our academies, we have 20 [00:45:00] habits, concepts and details that we emphasize throughout the year. And Jason, right, wrong or indifferent, we hit those 20 different degrees, of course, based on location and all that. But we hit that with all the kids regardless of their age.
Because you know, teaching kids when to play with one hand on the stick, when to play it. Two, maybe I'm nuts, Jason, but I'd be doing that with 11 year olds. I absolutely would because knowing that stuff can help you climb faster. I really believe that.
Jason Jacobs: I saw. On Instagram, so maybe I'm, you know, one of the guilty that, you know, that gets some information from Instagram.
But I saw, I think I saw an interview with Wayne Gretzky, um, it was probably an older one. Um, and he was talking about a story where he was a kid, they played in a game and they got smoked by a team and his dad after the game said, you know what, um, like, they're a great team. They're [00:46:00] well coached, but none of those kids are going anywhere because they play such a tight system that the kids aren't creative and, and they, and they don't get to try stuff.
And yeah, it'll win gains in the short term, but in the long term it's, it's, it's, it's going to hamper their development. My question is, um, as a coach, how much should you focus on short-term winning, like what your record should be in a season versus long-term development, and at what point does that start to shift?
Because clearly, if you're like. Sha head coach or you're the Boston University head coach, or you're, you know, the coach of the, you know, the like, like at certain levels it's gotta be about winning in the season you're in, right? So, so how should you balance that as a coach and how does that evolve over time
Francis Anzalone: with age?
I think the best programs and organizations strive to do both. But to give you a direct answer to your question, at younger birth years, long-term development should be paramount. Um, 100%. [00:47:00] Because you want your team to be at its best when your team needs to be at its best. And your number one responsibility in those environments is to make kids better on and off the ice, inside and outside of sport.
Um, to your point about, about Instagram, I'm, I'm on Instagram all the time. There's some great stuff out there. I screen record stuff, uh, I rob and do from there, what I just worry about is, oh, that looks good. Let's do that, the whole practice or you know, we, we see a Patrick Kane clip of him doing this, this, this, this, and this.
And now I expect my youth players should be able to do that. That's where I get, I'll call it the copy paste, if you will. I think you've gotta modify it, adapt it, make it your own. And then that's where I think those resources can be of tremendous value. No different than me starting out, going through all these binders that my dad had, or going all these coaching seminars and taking loads of notes that, that information is great.
I just think you [00:48:00] gotta take it and try to apply it to, to your group and to your situation. But this thing about winning versus development, like the ideal scenario is to do both. But if you're faced with what do I gotta do to win this game versus what do I need to do to win this season or win this journey, I'm going with the ladder all day, every day.
I've pretty much done that at nearly every level I've coached at and you know, maybe got fired for that at one point 'cause we didn't win enough games. But you know, what is winning to you? I'm big on definition, development, culture, accountability, winning, competing. What does it mean? Like what? What does it mean to your program?
What does it mean to your company, your organization? What does it mean? One player's definition of compete. Jason might be very different from another player's definition of compete [00:49:00] based on that player's value system that player's strengths and weaknesses. I think it's really, really important to drill down.
I've seen some
Jason Jacobs: coaches. Even at comparable levels that, um, that take a more mercenary approach to recruiting and to cutting. And then other coaches maybe at the same level that really focus more on development and working with the crew that you've got. Is there a right and wrong there or how, how, how do you think about that?
How, what advice do you have for coaches on how they should think about that?
Francis Anzalone: Well, I think if you're a real good developer, if, if your team and your players, it's obvious over the course of a season that they've improved, that they've grown, that they've gotten better, I think that's gonna help you do a lot of retaining, and I think that's gonna help you do a lot of recruiting.
I think there's a fine line and a [00:50:00] balance. There's no question that today with all the, as, as one of my favorite coaches, Kirk Signi, the football coach in Indiana says the, the noise and the clutter. With all that going on, it's important to own your narrative. It's important to broadcast what you do to be an advocate for yourself.
No doubt about it. It's important to be a recruiter, but like if you, if you recruit and sell and message, but the environment doesn't make the players better, that's like selling me a car that's not gonna run good after the first 2000 miles or 5,000 miles or whatever it's gonna be. So, you know, when, when someone will, will say to me, he's a, he's a, he's a great recruiter, or she's, she's just a great developer.
I always probe deeper and try to ask next level questions because you know, for me, like if someone's really good at coaching, if someone's really good at maximizing the group, if someone's really good at, at shaping a, an environment, what I hear, [00:51:00] yeah. But they're not a very good recruiter. Well, I'd like to work with that person and try to help them be a great recruiter.
'cause they got a lot of this stuff down that you need. That's gonna add credibility to your message,
Jason Jacobs: relatively. Some advice that, that people come on the show and say is that the most important role of the parent is to let the coaches coach and get outta the way. Um, and, and just talk about fun stuff in the car and like keep it light and just let the coaches do their jobs.
And then you hear story after story from players that have made it about how much their parents behind the scenes helped shepherd their journey through the game. Like part psychologist, part trainer, part, you know, agent part, whatever. I mean, the answer might be it depends, but, um, you know, as a, as a parent, how should you think about that and how should you navigate that?
Like what, what advice do you have for parents trying to figure that out?
Francis Anzalone: Yeah, great question. Another one that [00:52:00] doesn't have an easy answer, at least from my perspective, I'd love to say to you, Jason, it's sure in general, let the coaches coach. Absolutely. But if the coaches, if, if, if, if you are watching something go down that doesn't look right or doesn't make sense to you, or it's not, we could debate what this means till the cows come home.
But what good coaching is, I don't subscribe to the belief that the parents should just sit back and let this happen. What I do think the parents should do at that point is I think the parents should vary une emotionally and professionally. Talk to the coach, like, don't tailgate in the parking lot and criticize the go Talk to the coach.
Like if you have a question, ask the coach or better yet, work with your kid to have those tough conversations as hard as they can be. With the coach. So I'd like to say let the coach's [00:53:00] coach Sure. If it's if, if it's a good coach, if it's, if it's an experienced coach. If it's a coach that's genuine and, and doing right by your kid and the team, absolutely be a parent.
Reinforce the coach's message. But if, if something doesn't look right, if something is off, go to the coach calmly and professionally, no differently than what you would do in business. That's my advice on that front. If, if something seems off to you or your kid is sharing something with you about the coach or the coaching, that doesn't add up, up, speak to the coach and where it goes from there is gonna depend on the situation.
Jason Jacobs: I talk to a lot of coaches and I hear again and again, I mean even from some of the best coaches, they say look like, yeah, I wanna. I wanna really maximize the development for each one of these kids. But the problem is that like, there's not enough time in the day. Like, you know, we, you know, we're only on the ice a couple times a week, and like we, you know, we don't even like [00:54:00] get through the power play, let alone like what little Timmy can do better, uh, you know, for, for all of his stuff.
Right. Um, so, um, when it comes to true player development, when you, when you talk about a player and how they play the game, not about winning, not about systems, right? Who should own that? Like, should it be the coach? Should it be the parent? Should it be the kid? Does it matter on age? Like, should you just let the kids be kids and, and not worry about who owns it because no one should own it because it's just a sport?
Like Yeah. How, how do you think about it?
Francis Anzalone: Again, my viewpoint, the best organizations that I've. Witnessed do this, what you just described. They really try, at least in the beginning, to involve everyone. So great parent meeting at the start of the year. Parent touch points throughout so that at least there's transparency and good [00:55:00] communication about what's being done that's gonna increase the likelihood of the parent reinforcing the message.
If a kid has a skills coach, for example, or a specialty coach, I think the real good head coaches find the time to introduce themselves to that coach, to build a rapport with the entourage so that everybody is at least on the same page or close to the same page. So we're delivering a consistent message so the player isn't confused, so that we're maximizing development now that that takes time.
Okay, I understand that. And that that can be hard for maybe a volunteer. Coach to do, trying to juggle all the balls. But if you're asking me what I've seen, that's worked the best organizations recognize, okay, these kids today, they have private coaches, parents are involved, they go to this camp, they go to this academy, and they, they take ownership and try to [00:56:00] make sure all sides are are together and on the same page.
One thing I'll share with you about the lack of resources and, and maybe I just don't have enough time to, to get to this or that. Very, very true, very, very real. One of the things that's really impacted me and my perspective on this is the short term event coaching, which is all I've done for about the last seven or eight years, whether it was with the Latvia national team at OHL Cup opportunity, I talked about like, you've got two days to get your team ready.
Or you've got one week to get your team ready. Like, I don't, if I went back into coaching full time, if, if I was ever fortunate to, or someone gave me an opportunity, I don't know how the hell, I don't know what I would do with 70 games. I don't know what, I don't even know what I would do with nine months.
'cause I'm so used to, okay, you got, you got two video sessions and you gotta get 'em to play five back, five attack in two video sessions. And they, they, they can't be an hour long. You got [00:57:00] two practices in there, only 50 minutes. Like, so you really gotta prioritize, okay, what's our block tackle run? What's our A, b, and C?
What's our bread butter? So it's not that I don't, I don't have, um, empathy or understanding for that, for that side of it. I've just like, I've really learned how to do a lot with a little amount of time and it, and it's been phenomenal and I, any coach that's watching this that wants a good experience, get involved with some sort of short term event team because you're gonna have to learn how to.
Prioritize and you're gonna have to learn how to be brief and you're gonna have to learn how to be really patient too with pressure on you. Because like in some of these events, if you lose a game, you're done. You might have three more left on the schedule, but like if you lose a game, you're done. Like you're not gonna make it to the finals round round.
So I just wanted to throw that little plug out there if I could, for short term event coaching and how it teaches you to do a lot with a little. [00:58:00]
Jason Jacobs: One of the things I've heard you talk about is that, uh, is that you don't want people to have to choose between being great at sport or being great. Academics, um, and giving them the opportunity to do both.
If you look at the past though, um, if you have a really academic kid, I think you want them to, to whip through their academic experience and then get out in the world and start earning a living. And on the hockey side, right, increasingly the path involves like repeating, maybe repeating a second time, going to juniors for a couple years, right?
Like you're, you know, by the time you're coming out and ready to earn a living, you're, you know, 25, 26. If you, if you play pro for a few years and try to make it after maybe you're 28, 30, right? With no transferrable professional experience, at least from a traditional desk job, employer standpoint. And so are, are those paths at odds?
And, [00:59:00] and by going for one, are you shooting yourself in the foot with the other, like, 'cause I am, I mean, that's one of the challenges we have as parents of a kid who is, you know, who trying to do both. Fairly competitively, right? Is is like, it, it seems increasingly like they're at odds.
Francis Anzalone: Well, I would say two things to you.
First off, I just, I think athletics is a phenomenal teacher. Now, do I work in the sports industry? Am I a little biased? Yes, absolutely. But like, we love hiring people in TPH that are fresh out of the game. And by game, I don't just mean hockey. It, it could be, it could be any sport because they've, they've been in team settings, they've been in environments where if you're not committed, it's gonna be really hard to make it.
They can speak to kids with real life locker room, applicable experience about what it means to be a great teammate, how a lack of [01:00:00] respect or acceptance in a dressing room can tear a group apart. Like they have so much knowledge, so much, uh. On that side. Alright, maybe they're not great with a p and l yet.
We can teach a lot of that stuff. But a lot of the DNA stuff is really hard to teach and that's good for athletes to hear. So I think folks that, that come out of athletic environments and then, alright, it's time to get that desk job or go into the real world. I think those people are at a premium today because of what they walk in on day one, knowing.
Now, the other point I would make TA is, and this is a we thing in TPH, we are very passionate about families of 13, 14, 15 year olds not feeling like they have to make a choice. The, the traditional model of learning is great for some, but the reality is it doesn't work for all. So one of the things we try to do in TPH.
Is create an environment where [01:01:00] they could pursue their athletic, academic, and life goals all at one time. It's one less choice. Parents feel like they have to make, it's a sacrifice that kids shouldn't have to note. That's our academy model where they can chase all three of those at one time, um, and play sport for as long as possible and not sacrifice school or vice versa.
We're, we're, we're very big and passionate about that in TPH because we just hear too many stories where parents are freaked out their stress because the current environment is just not working for their kid.
Jason Jacobs: I guess the last topic that I've love to cover is, there's obviously been a bunch of changes in the sport recently with the transfer portal with NIL, with the, you know, the rule changes with the, um, you know, with the major juniors in, in Canada.
Um, I mean, it, it, it seems. Well, I'm not gonna ask a Yeah. Rather, rather than ask a a leading question, I'll just ask you [01:02:00] like, how, what do you think about those changes and how they're impacting the sport?
Francis Anzalone: That's another really good question. So, I think that organizations like us in TPH, for example, we have to just be very, very prepared to, to navigate this.
Like we, and I'll say this to organizations and associations out there, like, we've gotta be ready to educate our players and our families on this. You know, like there's a good way to approach the transport portal. There's not a good way to approach the transfer portal. There's probably good reasons to go into the transfer portal and there's probably not good reasons to go into the transfer portal.
In my experience, Jason, because we are all a byproduct of our experience. When I thought the grass was greener on the other side, it often wasn't. So I'm a little bit more. The psychology of grow where you're planted, coach the players that you have, don't [01:03:00] make a lot of trades, don't make a lot of transactions.
So like if I was an athlete today, it'd be hard for me to go into that portal because my father would be like, on me about make it work where you are. I think in general, a a lot of what's going on, uh, is not good. I, I, I, I'll be, I'll be direct with, with, with the party being, have you have the kids playing on LPs, playing on multiple teams, multiple universities, like I, I, I think in general it's, it's not good.
At the same time, Jason, we're not stopping him. So like, as coaches, as leaders, as youth organizations, we have to figure out how to navigate this because it's here and it's, I, it's not going anywhere. I, I, it's not going anywhere. It's a, this is a difficult topic for me because I still feel like we're very much at the front end and we're learning every day about,
Jason Jacobs: I mean, it seems like as a US kid coming up, the path has [01:04:00] never been harder to play college hockey.
One, do you agree? And two, is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Francis Anzalone: I definitely agree that it's, it's as hard as it's ever been, which is why I think those two things I talked about earlier, the group that you're gonna be around daily, the coach that you're gonna play for the environment you're gonna be in is so, so important because you're gonna need that stuff now more than ever if you're gonna make it.
I also think that we've gotta have a little, that, a little bit of that mindset that I'm, I'm, I'm aiming for the moon, but sometimes I gotta be okay with the stars. For example, uh, a CHA club hockey is a really, really good route for some kids. There's some a CHA programs out there that have tremendous resources that can really incentivize you to come to school there and play for that program.
You're gonna have a great [01:05:00] experience. You're gonna play the game you love. Maybe play for a good coach, be around good teammates every day. Division three hockey. It's pretty good. If you watch a game, it's very competitive. Players care. They're passionate. So I, I just think that you gotta go for it when your windows open.
Take in as much information as you can. Try to maximize your experience, but you gotta recognize that it, it, it is harder today and you gotta be able to look in the mirror and say, you know, I pretty much did all the things that I thought I needed to do to get to this point. I didn't get to, I didn't get to the moon, but I've landed here at a pretty good star.
You know, my, my dream when I was 13 was to play for a big 10 school, but I'm, I'm gonna play for an Atlantic hockey school, but, you know, that's okay. It's a really good, I'm gonna play for a really good program, a really good coach. So it's, it's just about maximizing the journey and maximizing every day.
And I think those messages are far more [01:06:00] important today because to your point, it's harder to make it and it's harder to stay. And nowadays to the question about the NIL, the portal, I mean, back in the day, coaches of college hockey programs, some never cut players. You commit to this kid, you're committed to them for four years.
They don't have to keep the player now either. So you see, it goes both ways here. When I say it's, it's, it's not, I don't think a lot of, some of this stuff's not great for the game or, or, or great for the world. It's, it's not just the players. It's, you got, you got programs now going through. Players left and right.
I never really did that as a coach. I, I tried to keep our transactions down. Like I just, I, that's how I came up. We are to an extent a, a byproduct of our environment.
Jason Jacobs: Oh, well, this was such a, a far ranging discussion, and you've been a great sport about, I feel like I've been kinda firing questions [01:07:00] at you for an hour.
Um, uh, is there anything I didn't ask that, uh, that you wish I did or any parting words for listeners?
Francis Anzalone: No, this was great. I, I really appreciate what you're doing and, uh, to be candid and vulnerable with you for a second. I'm actually not used to this because I'm usually the one kind of, uh, uh, asking the questions.
So, um, this has been great for me just to kind of be on the other side of it and have to share my thoughts. Your questions and your topics were great. I think one of my key takeaways from this discussion is, and folks can feel free to disagree with this. There isn't a universal answer to a lot of this stuff.
It so depends on your personal journey, your personal situation, the family's DNA, the family's values. And uh, I guess my parting words to, to any parents' watching this here today, ask [01:08:00] the tough questions and do it in the beginning. The likelihood of it going well is just greater in my opinion. Go into as many situations as you can.
Eyes wide open, it's soaking. And beware of the promise makers. Be very aware of the promise makers because there's a lot of that out there today and I don't think it's good.
Jason Jacobs: Okay, Francis. Well that's a great point to end on and, uh, thanks again for coming on. Uh, wishing you. Best of luck and, uh, and thanks for all the work that you and that, uh, that TPH has done for the game.
Francis Anzalone: No, this was great. Uh, uh, genuinely thank you for including me, and I look forward to seeing where you take this into the future. Thank you, Jason.
Jason Jacobs: Thanks for listening to Puck Academy. If you enjoyed this episode, follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share it with someone serious about their game.
See you next [01:09:00] week.