In this episode of 'The Next Next,' host Jason Jacobs delves into the complexities of youth athlete development with John Couture, a mental performance coach with over 30 years of experience, including 11 years in the MLB. They discuss the role and timing of mental performance coaching, the importance of building confidence, and how mental skills can transform physically gifted athletes into peak performers. Couture shares insights on the certification process for mental performance coaches, the need for ongoing education, and the importance of collaboration with other coaches. The conversation also touches on the role of parents in youth sports, the commercialization of youth sports, and how to balance pushing children with giving them autonomy.
Mastering Mental Performance: Insights from a Veteran Coach
In this episode of The Next Next, host Jason Jacobs delves into the world of mental performance coaching with guest John Couture, a seasoned mental performance coach at IMG Academy and director at the Kinkaid School. With over 30 years of experience, including 11 years in the MLB, John shares his insights on how mental performance techniques can turn physically gifted athletes into well-rounded performers who excel under pressure. They discuss the nuances of mental performance coaching, the right time to engage with a coach, and the benefits of integrating mental skills training into an athlete’s routine. John also talks about the growing prominence of mental performance coaching, the certification process, and his experiences working with athletes at various levels. The episode includes practical advice for parents and athletes, and highlights the importance of communication and collaboration among coaches, parents, and mental performance professionals. Jason also explores the impact of commercialization in youth sports and the balance between pushing athletes and allowing them to find their own paths.
00:00 Introduction to The Next Next
00:35 Meet John Couture: Mental Performance Coach
01:32 The Role and Importance of Mental Performance Coaching
02:45 John's Journey into Mental Performance Coaching
05:43 Techniques and Universals in Mental Performance
10:49 Certification and Legitimacy in Mental Performance Coaching
14:30 Mental Performance Coaching in Practice
20:21 Daily Integration of Mental Performance
24:03 Group vs. Individual Coaching
26:30 The Importance of Communication in Coaching
27:38 Athlete's Perception vs. Objective Performance
28:39 Managing Parental Influence on Athletes
30:15 The Role of Mental Performance Coaches
31:56 Balancing Youth Sports and Family Life
34:11 The Business of Youth Sports
38:03 Digital Solutions for Mental Performance Coaching
43:01 Parental Perspectives vs. Athlete's Reality
44:54 The Importance of Autonomy in Youth Sports
48:35 The Future of Youth Sports
51:43 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
[00:00:00]
Jason Jacobs: Welcome to The Next Next. I'm the host, Jason Jacobs. This is a show that sorts through the nuanced topics around athlete development, specifically looking at youth sports. I. I'm coming at it from the perspective of a founder who's thinking about building my next company in youth sports, specifically around player development, but also as a sports dad, as there's some easy topics where there's a clear right and wrong and there's a whole bunch of gray area.
And the aim of this show is to bring on experts from a wide range of backgrounds and sort through the nuance. Today's guest is John Couture. John is a mental performance coach at IMG Academy, and he's also director of Athletic Mental Performance at the Kinkaid School. He's got 30 years of experience, including 11 years in the MLB.
He brings the proven mental performance techniques that turn physically gifted athletes into complete performers who excel under pressure. Now, I was excited for this one [00:01:00] because mental performance is something you hear a lot about as a sports dad, but.
I never had one growing up, and it seems like my kids are too young to have one, but makes me wonder when is the right time to have one? What a, what do mental performance coaches do? How do they work? When's the right time to engage with them? Is it in times of panic or is it preemptively during peace time?
At any rate, we get into all of that and more. John's a great guest and he's extremely knowledgeable and passionate about these topics. John, welcome to the show.
Okay. John Couture, welcome to the show.
John Couture: Uh, thanks. Thanks for having me.
Jason Jacobs: Thanks for coming. First of all, are you self-described as a sports psychologist? Is that how you think about your profession?
John Couture: Um, we've now changed it to mental performance coach.
Jason Jacobs: Uhhuh Mental performance coach got, 'cause I wanted to get my vocabulary right. So mental performance coaching is something that to me intuitively seems very [00:02:00] important. I have not had access to one when I was coming up. You know, my kids are. Too young, although that's something we can talk about, you know, like what's too young and when's the right age and, and stuff like that.
But it's a fascinating area to me. It's one that seems like it's growing in prominence, although it's still not widely traveled. Um, I would say. But you have done it for a long time and you're also doing it for IMG Academy and other places at a, at a, which is in my mind is kind of the gold standard of.
Athlete development. And I'm just really grateful for you making the time to come on and educate me and educate our listeners on your craft.
John Couture: Yeah. Again, thanks for having me and I'm, I'm glad to talk about it.
Jason Jacobs: For starters, John, maybe just explain your craft and talk a bit about how you found yourself pursuing this craft.
John Couture: Sure. Fir first off the craft is, you know, what you and I, again, [00:03:00] we didn't have access to when we were growing up, when we were playing, we, when we were competing, but the the veteran kind of. Old school coaches that we may have had that knew there was something more than just X's and O's to make a player become better and to get the most out of them.
They were doing that very informally throughout our lives,
Jason Jacobs: According. Yeah. But yeah, through things like breaking in their stick over the boards, hurling every expletive in the book.
John Couture: Sure. Yeah, sure. Again, and it may be few and far between for the productive ones, correct? I, I agree.
Jason Jacobs: no, but I I I'm with you though that that there's been this kind of undercurrent or like intuition that there's something there, even though historically it wasn't formalized. Um, when did it become formalized and also when did how did you come about working in it formally?
John Couture: Sure. Um, I, I started out as a player and once I stopped playing, once my [00:04:00] physical talent kind of stopped me, I. I didn't have anything else to keep me going. So then I became a coach again. I, I was, I was a baseball player in college. I was a baseball player after college, and then I became a baseball coach.
So while I was teaching how to
Jason Jacobs: Did you, but when you say after college, where like how far did you make it? Did you play in the pros?
John Couture: I, I played in the Dependent League. Yes. Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: I didn't know that. I.
John Couture: And then I became a professional coach. I was coaching an independent team in Johnstown, Pennsylvania.
Jason Jacobs: On, on baseball, not on mental performance. Okay.
John Couture: Not the knock, the hockey team. Exactly. And I knew there was something more than just throwing and hitting and running and stuff like that.
So then I start, I started to develop these player plans that included mental skills. Again, I went, when I was in college, I went to Amherst College and I majored in psychology. So I used some of my background information that I [00:05:00] had about, how to maximize what you have, how to stay in the present moment.
I started doing that with these baseball players. So again, informally, my job wasn't a mental performance coach for this team. My job was a, was a hitting coach for this team and a third base coach for this team. So once I started doing that, we started seeing results. We started seeing,
Jason Jacobs: why did you start doing that though? Because you started doing that before you had results, obviously. So like, what was
John Couture: started
Jason Jacobs: doing it in the first place?
John Couture: we knew, we knew there was more we knew there was more to get to get out of each individual player. Again, where that come from? I don't know. I don't know where that came from. Again, you, you, you say maybe intuition. There, there was something more to that
Jason Jacobs: And you, you jumped to the results part, but, but can we talk a bit about like. Like when you, when you started doing it, like what did that mean? Like what, what were you actually doing in those, those the initial, initial stuff.
John Couture: The initial stuff was, again, once you [00:06:00] got past the fundamental, the on the field skills. And they still weren't producing. They still weren't competing up to what we thought was their potential. Then we started going into other things again, one of the words that would come out would be confidence.
So he doesn't have confidence, you know, he doubts himself. He's not playing aggressive enough. Things like that. Those are words that kind of came out earlier that we said, well, how do we manifest that? How do we manifest aggressiveness? How do we manifest, be being more confident with your skills when you're on the field.
Jason Jacobs: Well, conventional wisdom would say that you either have it or you don't. And like, uh, you know, you can't teach it.
John Couture: Exactly. The cream rises to the top and those guys are gonna have it in innately but.
Jason Jacobs: If you, if you didn't have like, uh, you know, three older brothers kicking the crap outta you, like, you know, you're not gonna develop it suddenly now.
John Couture: Yeah so, but but again, coaches coach, right? So that's what we tried to do. We tried to coach it and again we saw results. We saw players who, [00:07:00] started wanting to come to the ballpark. They weren't dreading, and oh, for four anymore. They were more optimistic about what they can learn from that.
They started trying to stay in the present moment, trying to support teammates, trying to do what they can do. Again, these are, these are rudimentary things that we were just starting. I didn't have a, a curriculum per se, I had, I just had my knowledge. I just had my experiences that I was
Jason Jacobs: And what, like, when was this timeline wise? Like was, was, uh. Was the internet even a thing
John Couture: one season. Yeah. This was all within one, one season, one summer, one summer of
Jason Jacobs: But were you like going on Google to find this stuff where, I mean, like how, yeah. So like what were you reading books? Like how did you, how'd you figure out what to try? I.
John Couture: Again from my education, from my undergraduate education and from my experiences, again, I, I've been around baseball and other sports, but baseball my whole life. So I, I knew what, what worked when you [00:08:00] walked up to the plate and I knew what didn't work when you walked up the plate. Again, I didn't necessarily know it when I was playing, but as a coach.
You kind of put things into order and you understand, okay, this definitely will help. This definitely doesn't help. So you start doing those things, you start teaching those things. And again I don't know if I was really efficient with my teachings, but at least I was effective enough where we were getting the points across.
Jason Jacobs: Now when you say what will help or what won't help, are there things that uniformly will help or not help, or is every. Player different and no two alike, and so I really couldn't tell you what will help or don't help without looking at your athlete specifically.
John Couture: Oh, there, there's universals. We, we know some universals that will help. For, for example, when you are paying attention to like your physical body, while there is a moving ball around you, you're not gonna perform well because you're not gonna see the baseball. [00:09:00] So those are, that's a universal, another universal is, again, with more confidence or with more preparation or with more, feeling of readiness, you're going to perform better.
I. If you doubt yourself, if you're unprepared, if you don't quite know what you're trying to do in that particular play, then you won't perform at your best. That's gonna be lucky if you do succeed. So we don't wanna be lucky. We wanna be in control of what we're doing. So yeah, there's plenty of universals and then there's plenty of other subtle details where.
Athletes can customize mental skills. Maybe some people will have some self-talk and that will get them into the proper, intensity to where they can perform at their best. Maybe some others will do some more visualization. Maybe some others will, again, listen to music in their head. To get themselves loose and, and you know, moving and feeling ready and feeling like good and confident for that next play.
So there's plenty of customization that, that we can do. And again, we, we [00:10:00] have plenty of options. We have plan B, plan C, plan F, we have all those plans for all these athletes. That's why individual mental performance coaching is so important to get to know. Once you have the universals down, then you talk about the, the details and the details are the game changers.
That's what's gonna separate you from, the others or you from your old self. Okay. Again, sim simply things like eating your vegetables. Yeah. Eating your vegetables will probably help you get healthy. But then there's some details that a nutritionist can help you with. Not just vegetables, but also these other things to get these micro and macro nutrients.
So that's what mental performance coaches can do. We can break things down and make it much more effective and much more efficient for an athlete, I.
Jason Jacobs: How does one become a. Mental performance coach are there do you go to school for it? Are there certifications involved?
John Couture: Yeah, there, there's a, so [00:11:00] right now, there again we're relatively in our infancy, as you said before. There's a kind of a gold standard for mental performance coaches. It's given by by an organization called Ask A A SP, and the certification is called the CMPC, the Certified Mental Performance Coach.
Okay. And how did, how do you get that? Well, you have to go to obviously an accredited college. You have to have some sort of graduate degree, either a master's or a PhD. And then you have to get mentored hours, meaning you have to work with athletes and teams and coaches under a, you know, an experienced mentor such as myself, I'm an, I'm an approved mentor where the mentees will work with them.
They'll talk to their mentee, their mentor about. The content about how to do things about the best ways to, get points across and the best ways to teach mental skills and to teach just mental performance in general. And then they take a test and [00:12:00] then they get certified and then they have to do some continuing education units to keep going, to keep that certification.
Now, there's plenty of other people out there that don't have the education, they don't have this certification. They don't have any mentored hours. They just, put a shingle up or make a website and say, I'm a mental performance coach. Come work with me. There's lots of those out there. And again, you can just search social media and you'll see thousands of those guys.
We just don't know if they're any good. And if you're willing to pay money for a course or you're willing to pay money for, to work with a, with one of these people, you just don't know what you're gonna get. But if you hire A-C-M-P-C, you know what you're gonna get. You're gonna get established, scientifically proven methods to help mental skills enhance your performance.
That's what you're gonna get,
Jason Jacobs: I mean, it's a little unnerving that, that they're even allowed to do that because like, I couldn't hang a shingle and say that I'm a doctor, I mean, there are regulations that would prevent me from, from doing that without [00:13:00] having the proper certification. So I mean, when you're dealing with, uh, like mental stuff, I don't know, that seems like something that you don't, you don't wanna mess around with.
John Couture: Sure. Again, it, the, the strength and conditioning people see it in, you know, in that part, athletic training things. They see it sometimes too. They, the words are. They kind of jumbled up. So like, so they'll be like a physical trainer in a gym that calls themself a performance coach.
So if you're an athlete, you don't know the difference. What's performance? What does that mean? Does that mean you're a skill coach? Right? Does that mean you're a mental skills coach? Does that mean you're a physical skills coach? What? What does that mean? So they kind of jumble the lines, and what you'll find also is you'll find guys that are motivational coaches.
So motivational coaches may or may not have any education at all. They just pump you up. They're just like, yeah, you can do it. You can, without any scientifically proven method or curriculum that they're following. [00:14:00] So there's, there are plenty of people out there, but if you see the little CMPC after someone's name, at least you can trust that they know what they're talking about and they can help you.
And that's, that's one thing I guarantee. I guarantee that. To all my athletes and all my coaches that I will help them, I will help enhance their performance. They, their performance and their knowledge about what goes on up here will improve. I guarantee it, because again, it's not coming from me, it's coming from science and research.
Jason Jacobs: Now, I mean, I, I'm actually just coming off of an interview for the show with a player development person in hockey focused more on the. Physical performance, right? And what he was talking about is how he started serving more what he would call like the mass market, right? With like camps and tournaments and things like that.
And then over time he's gravitated towards a much smaller number of athletes. He has a more data-driven approach using lots of video and it, and it tends to be, the more serious athletes [00:15:00] playing the game at a higher level that, um. Tend to care at the, at, at that level of granular detail. Is are there are there also different spots for mental performance coaches?
So some might serve everybody, whereas some might focus on more elite athletes or certain sports or, or, or things like that.
John Couture: Sure. Oh, yes. And I, I just wanna also add that there's another organization called the American Board of Sports Psychology that also gives really quality certifications too. They are more geared towards like the research end of sports psychology. I. So there, there are two ways, but again, and I'm certified in both, just to let you know the CMPC is what you'll see more.
You'll see more working with teams, working with youth organizations, things like that.
Jason Jacobs: Who do you work with? John? Where, where? Where's your and I? And maybe it's a broad range, but like where, yeah, like what what types of clients do you find that you work with the most?
John Couture: I started out working only with [00:16:00] professional athletes because once again, those are the people that have the resources and also, you know, have the connections. They have agents that know, hey, mental performance is good for you, so you should probably try to get one, and things like that.
So I started with professionals and then I started working my way down to college level athletes. And college coaches. And then I now work in, for the most part, high school. So I've done the whole gamut. Every once in a while I will work with some youth sports and I have plenty of colleagues that love to work with youth sports.
I just haven't really gotten down that low yet. In terms of, you know, working with seven and eight year olds, I do sometimes as favors. But my main clientele is more of the, the older, more of the, the, you know, the more advanced type of athlete.
Jason Jacobs: And for any parent or players out there uh, when is the right time to. Think about mental performance and also is mental performance a peace time or a war time activity? Is it like, oh, I'm in [00:17:00] crisis because I'm in a slump. It's time for mental performance. Or is it more like, uh, no. Is it more preventative that you want to be engaging with it?
Like when you don't know you need it is the perfect time.
John Couture: so the analogy that we like to use is, do you go in the weight room only when you're having a slump? No, you go in the weight room almost all the time, especially in the off season, and especially, you know, for maintenance and stuff like that. Like no, same thing when you eat food. Like you don't want to just eat when you're sick.
You don't want to just eat healthy when you're sick. You do it continually. That's what mental performance is. We want to develop skills. It's a, it's an education. It's a daily education on how you can control your thoughts, your emotions, and your actions by the things that you do, by the things that you say, by the people you hang out with, stuff like that.
So it's a daily thing. Uh, when can people start? Well, they really start when they think they need it, because that's the motivator, right? Usually failure is the motivator. So if you have a, a [00:18:00] 12-year-old little leaguer who's, just lost in all stars and is really bummed, that's gonna be the time when a parent may say, you know what?
I think we should hit the weight room. I think we should, you know, start doing this training program and maybe even talk to a, a mental performance coach. So that kind of may, usually the initiator and the younger people, the older people, they sort of, they find us when they know they've hit a limit.
When they know their talent has taken 'em so far, but they still wanna get better, they still wanna play the next level. So how do they do that? They start looking around for other resources and we are a resource that's there. Again, I've been here for 30 years now, since the nineties. So there are people out there that have been there.
It's just a matter of if they, if there's, if they're surrounding, if their environment understands it, because there's plenty of, I. There's plenty of athletes whose their support group doesn't believe in it or they don't know about it. And [00:19:00] it's weird to say that because the Olympians have it.
Most professional organizations have one or more of me on their staff, but yeah, you know, if you are a up and coming, football player from Texas, you just think, you know, lifting weights is the way to go. That's the only thing that's gonna help me get better.
Jason Jacobs: So for the teams at that level that do have, mental performance coaches on their staff. I wonder how do they tend to get used at that level?
John Couture: At which level? At the professional level. Yeah, so again it varies because once again, we are a, a support kind of system, so you know, it, we're only as good as the organization allows us to be. Again, and I, and I've seen these things there's organizations where there's a coaching staff that doesn't believe in it, and then you get put on the periphery.
And if there's time, if there's availability, [00:20:00] if there's a location, if there's a room that's open, yeah, go ahead, do your thing. Right, but there's plenty of people and especially, and this is growing now, the number of people that believe in mental performance that incorporate and embed mental performance into a daily routine.
Those are the organizations that really see the benefit. That really see the benefit from it.
Jason Jacobs: What's an example of how to incorporate mental performance into a daily routine that you've seen work well?
John Couture: Sure. N number one, when the medal performance coach, just like with a, with a strength coach in terms of like load management, stuff like that, you want to talk to the coaching staff about what the. Daily schedule is, or the weekly schedule or the season schedule, and then you work through it like that.
So you are on the same page with the head coach or with whomever is running the development. You're on the same page. So you, you, a, a daily schedule may look like. I meet with the team before they go [00:21:00] out for stretch and we talk about maybe a, a topic of the day or a word of the day, or a feeling of the day, and it primes them to search it out.
It primes them to practice that while they're on the field, while they're doing their activities, while the coach is coaching up in the. In the individual fundamental skills, they're, meanwhile they're paying attention to, their confidence level or what they're focused on, or maybe a word that they're looking for.
You know, maybe they, they're looking for the word have to. Or need, and they're like, uhoh, yeah, I don't wanna have to do anything. I don't wanna need to do anything. I want to do this stuff. So things like that. So even 5, 10, 15 minute primer before they go do their thing. A real embedded mental performance coach would then be on the field too.
Maybe they're doing some drills with the coaches, or maybe they're just observing, but they're available to the players throughout the practice session, throughout the training session. So a player can [00:22:00] go up and say, you know, during a water breaker or even in between one of their transitions and ask me a question about, Hey, you know, I'm finding exactly what you just said this morning.
I'm working through it. Or, you know, what can you help me about what, what? What are we supposed to be doing today? What, you know, what's this? You know, so they look at me or they look at my role and they immediately associate it with mental skills, with mental development. I. So, on the field during their training or during their performance or their competition, whatever that day has.
And then afterwards we have some sort of reflection period. It could be an individual reflection period with they open up their notebooks and their journals and they write down their reflections with questions that. I've posted on the board, or I've said to them, what's one thing they're really proud of today?
What's one thing that they wanna improve on for the next day? Think simple things like that. Simple reflections like that. Or it could be a group reflection saying, okay, what was the main takeaway from this training [00:23:00] session? And we can group it and we can classify it into three categories. What was the main takeaway in terms of the fundamental skills you learned?
And they can write that down. What's the mu main takeaway from your physical skills that you learned? We'll write that down. And then what was the main takeaway from your mental skills? Because those are the three skill sets that are controllable by that athlete. Those are the ones that they're paying attention to.
They know if they develop their physical skills, their fundamental skills, and their mental skills. That they're getting better, like that. They are really getting better. And if they have a deficit in one of those, they know it's just makes it more difficult, right? If anyone's sick or if anyone's like, you know, lacking sleep or if anyone's lacking confidence, it's gonna make it really difficult to perform at their best.
So that's kind of how we frame it. We frame it all in the things that they can control, all the things that will make them optimistic and energize them and want them to. Keep on going and keep on, [00:24:00] seeing how good they can be. That's the goal.
Jason Jacobs: So do you in your current practice, do you tend to work more in a group setting with teams or, or on an individual basis?
John Couture: I do both. And both have their, both have their marriage. So I work at a school here in Houston, Texas, and most likely we work with groups because of limitations on time and space and things like that. So I work with teams. I also work with individuals, but that's. Less so at that particular school.
Now, I also work with IMG athletes, and that's strictly on an individual basis. And that's a virtual reality. So I use Zoom also to broaden my reach and to, really reach out to people, not just in America, but I have clients all over the world that will search me out and find me, and we'll work together on their mental skills.
And then there's also other people that, coaches will get to me and we'll do a, we'll do a hybrid, we'll do teams and [00:25:00] then individuals. That's what they're looking for, and that's what they can pay for. So there, there's, I, I work with both.
Jason Jacobs: All athletes,
John Couture: I, I started out working only with baseball players, but now I've branched out. I don't know if I can say I've worked with every type of athlete, but I've worked with pretty, mostly every type of athlete. Um, men
Jason Jacobs: it is an, a athlete specific practice.
John Couture: Say that again.
Jason Jacobs: an athlete specific practice, like you wouldn't work with. Someone in the military, or a doctor.
John Couture: And there are, yeah, there are c MPCs that do work with first responders. They have that little certification also. So we, we've, we've branched out and we've, we've expanded into that. I have worked with doctors. I have spoken at the, um, you know, the American surgeons, communications, uh.
You know, convention in Chicago way back when about how to use your mental skills in the or. Like I have done that, but that's not what I do normally. I work with [00:26:00] athletes.
Jason Jacobs: Um, how much coordination and collaboration, could there be or should there be with the coach or with the other skill providers on a team, whether it's a nutritionist or a strength coach or a hitting coach or to use to stick with baseball for a minute or, um, uh, or a pitching coach or things like that.
John Couture: Yeah. I, I think it's the more communication and the more collaboration, the more production you're gonna have. That's the bottom line. Again, the, for example, a pitching coach will need to know that the pitcher is working with a mental performance coach and kind of what we're working on.
Because that pitcher may need to take some extra time when he is throwing a bullpen. And if that pitching coach doesn't know, he may say like, what are you doing? Why? Why are you taking so much time? What are you, you know, what are you doing? Why you keep stepping off when he doesn't? He may not know that that's a routine that we've established that we're trying to do to, get the pitcher to perform at is best for that next pitch.
So the [00:27:00] more communication, the more collaboration you get, more production. And again, I've seen it both ways. I've seen it with really great communication. And really great collaboration. And then, you know, the, the, the ones where it's secluded and I have to watch him afar or the athlete doesn't really know if the coach knows what he's doing type of thing.
We, we don't want that. That's not the, that's not the ideal. The ideal is for everyone to kind of work together, so we are on the same page. So we use the same words. You know, so the athlete isn't drawn in many different directions. He's all going, he's going with us in the same direction.
Jason Jacobs: I'm curious when a game is finished, sometimes the athlete's perception is different than the parent's. Perception is different than the coach's perception in terms of I. Performance. Right. And I'm just curious, is it the athlete's perception of performance that you care about? Or is it [00:28:00] objective performance that you care about?
And is film review something that is that, that is helpful or is it not necessary?
John Couture: So again, that's a really good question, and when I'm working with an athlete. We work with the athlete about what the athlete can control, so the athlete can control his perception on what happened, his own reflection on what happened, because only he knows what he was trying to do. The parents don't know.
The parents may think they know, or the parents may think they know what their child was thinking, but they don't really know. And so we lock in on what the athlete can control. That comes first. Then because the athlete is with the parent 24 7, and sometimes in a kind of a negative or stressful way sometimes, then we work with the athlete on how to manage that, on what to say or how to take in information from the parents.
I. Again, hopefully without judging it. And is there any, you know, [00:29:00] quality information? Is there any information that's useful? If not, they let it go. So we work with skills like that. The same thing with professional athletes. Professional athletes may have a different perception than their coach or their manager.
So when their manager may say something like, you know, you did a bad job when the, the pitcher may say I executed all my pitches. Like, I, I did my job. It just didn't work out That particular. Outing so, so this isn't just player parent specific, but it is player, other person specific. This happens more than we think, and it's useful for the athlete to gain the skills hopefully before it negatively affects them, so they gain the skills so they can manage those times.
Jason Jacobs: I mean, have you found cases sometimes where the athlete is harder on themself than is warranted?
John Couture: Oh, sure. Oh yeah and that's where the education comes into play. The athlete is harder on himself when he is either trying to be a [00:30:00] perfectionist, and we talk about that, which is not very helpful at all. Or they have. They haven't practiced something yet. Like you have expectations on yourself, but if you haven't done something, then you can't expect yourself to do it, especially in the heat of the battle.
So that's where a mental performance coach can come in and unpack those things. So there's a reason why a player is, not really happy with an outing. But there's, but we don't want him to not be happy. We want him to be optimistic from that information so he knows it's gonna help him the next time.
Does that make sense? Is that clear?
Jason Jacobs: it does. Do parents ever sit in on these sessions?
John Couture: Sure. I invite them to sit on, a few parts of like the, you know, a few initial sessions so they understand where I'm coming from. I also send them notes afterwards, written notes specifically to the parents about things they can help with. I would, I'd start like, at this point, you can do this, you can encourage your child or you can, maybe [00:31:00] do this.
For your child's mental performance development. So I like to include them because just like I said before, the communication collaboration, when it's there, it's more productive. So when we get the parent buy-in, that's more productive. So the child doesn't have to pick and choose who we listens to and we want to bring the parents in again, sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes the parents are the distraction for the kids.
'cause they will say, go get a hit. They will say, go win this championship. They will say, this is a big game here. And that's a just a distraction for the child. So we wanna bring that parent in to get them on the same page as the coaches of what that child is going to try to do, is going to try to implement, is gonna try to attend to while they're competing.
Jason Jacobs: W. When we were growing up, [00:32:00] it, I'm sure there were certainly exceptions, but largely the kids were kind of navigating their own paths with sports. And today it is really much more of the kid and the parent, as a unit. And I'm just curious on your thoughts on, I guess, why it's become that way and and what the ramifications are of the fact that it is that way, as well as any thoughts on how you hope things evolve in the future.
John Couture: Sure. Again, in one aspect, it's really great, right? It keeps the family together, it gives them, it gives them experiences, right? Traveling from I. California to North Carolina for a single soccer game, can bring a family together, but it can also stress a family out in terms of finances, in terms of time, in terms of other children that are part of the family things like that too, right?
Or other experiences that they aren't being able to do. So [00:33:00] I, again, my hope is that the people that are doing it want to do it. And they don't feel that they have to do it because again, most of the time right now, this is what I'm seeing with parents, they feel if they don't sign their kid up for that 6-year-old team or that 7-year-old team, or they don't make that 18 when they're young, then they're gonna miss out.
We have to do this, we have to do this now or else they're gonna miss out. So it's partly, the educated people in the room, you and me and other people like us that we want to share with the parents. I. Listen, they're not missing anything by not being on the seven U All-Star team. It's okay.
They're not gonna, they're not gonna lessen their chances of even playing high school basketball if they don't play a a u when they're eight years old. It's okay. What, what you wanna do is you wanna make the child like sports. As many sports as possible because we know that's what science [00:34:00] tells us.
The more exposed to the different types of sports, the more healthy they're gonna be later in life, right? 'cause the more experiences they get. So that's what we're hoping for. What the business of this is gonna have those parents do is think differently. No, you need to do this. You need to pay us this money.
You need to be part of this club 12 months outta the year, or else you are gonna miss out. So there is a little pull from the business side of youth sports, but we as the non-business side of youth sports, we wanna make sure that those parents and those kids know there's other options. There's other options to all of the, you know, paying the money and doing all this traveling stuff.
There's other options. Now a parent may say, no, there's not, there's no other options. There's, I can't find a place for my kid to play. Or there's boys clubs and girls clubs there's YMCAs, there's plenty of recreational activities out there [00:35:00] that are geared specifically toward the people that don't wanna be monopolized by a sport for 12 months outta the year.
There's lots of them. If they need help finding them, again, go to the Chamber of Commerce, go to somewhere in their local town, and I'm sure there's, there's, you know, a local basketball coach that. Prepares, like, you know, like pick up basketball at the local park or something like that, that their kids can go to.
So there are lots of other opportunities than just the big monopolized, you know, soccer clubs, basketball clubs, baseball, travel balls, stuff like that they can do to still be a part of that particular sport.
Jason Jacobs: But I mean, isn't your core clientele the folks that tend to play more intensively and in a more concentrated way?
John Couture: Yeah. Yeah. Again, and that's why I, I, I tend to get the ones that are older that are. More developed that have consciously made a decision, [00:36:00] consciously made a decision, I'm going to specialize now in baseball. I'm going to see how good I can be in baseball. So what are my resources here for me? So that's if they are teetering, if they don't know, if they haven't made a decision that they wanna be a professional athlete.
Then, this may not be a great fit. I could still help 'em and I will still definitely make their life, better, more enhanced, happier. And they, they can definitely use all the mental skills that we talk about in the classroom. They can use all the mental skills we talk about at home, you know, with their friends.
So it's gonna enhance their life. This isn't just sports specific mental skills. These are mental skills that are applied everywhere in their life. So they're gonna be better off when they work with. A mental performance coach, just like they're gonna be better off if they work with a nutritionist, or they'll be better off if they work with a, you know, with a strength coach or a mobility coach or a speed coach.
Even if they don't want to be a professional athlete, they're just gonna be overall knowledgeable and [00:37:00] have a better quality of life moving forward. But yes, I, my clientele pays me. I get paid, so it's not really a free thing. Which means there is a portion of the, of the demographics that I. May not have access to this.
So that's why we have plenty of, we have plenty of CMCs that are willing to do free things. I give free some free lessons and free group meetings at a facility that I work at. I do. I, I do. And, and there's plenty of people that take advantage of that, and they go there and they're like, yeah, that's great.
When is the next free one happening? But again, I can't, I can't send my kids to college on giving away free advice and free information. So there is a part of my business that I charge, and that's just, that's just part of the game.
Jason Jacobs: For those that want access and, and either aren't serious enough to [00:38:00] justify or can't afford or whatever. Do you think there's ways to package what you do in a way that can serve more people digitally without compromising quality?
John Couture: Yes. Yeah, totally. And there are, again I'm one of them, but there's other people out there I'm putting together like a, a course online for, specifically for student athletes, between the ages of like 12 and 18 that will help them understand. Pretty much the, the gist of what I do one-on-one, and it's a, you know, it's an asynchronous course so they can, you know, press play and press pause whenever they want.
They can do that. What you're gonna see is when that happens, you're gonna see a level of growth because of all this new knowledge. It's, again, it's kind of like reading a book or taking a course in school. You're gonna get a huge jump in your, in your mental performance and, and your overall [00:39:00] performance.
Then that may initiate you into wanting to know more into wanting to have that one-on-one experience to what else can I do? That customization I was talking about, you can't get the customization from a digital platform that just won't happen. You need to be able to get a relationship with a coach.
You need to be able to work with a coach, work with the ups and downs of, just development in general, especially the age group that you happen to be working with, and then go from there, air.
Jason Jacobs: When you th think about the state of youth sports today, I mean, this is kind of a more of a feelings question versus a specific tangible one. But how do you feel about it? What emotions does it conjure?
John Couture: A, a lot of emotions actually, because I've had four children and they've all gone through the youth sports at different sports and different levels and stuff like that. So I've seen it all. I've seen the really good and the really not so good from the [00:40:00] athlete situation where. They get, they literally get boxed out and they don't have an opportunity to do what they wanna do for whatever reason.
From the, the parent social setting where, you know, friend groups and, and parents are getting together solely based on the talent of their child, I. And not on any other thing. So it's like a political thing. And then the, the privatization and the commercialization of the whole thing. Where you know, you need to pay money, you need to buy a uniform, you need to go and do something somewhere far away.
I. Just to be part of this team or be part of this club when it may not be the right thing. And again, it's really difficult for a parent to say no to a coach saying, we can't do this right now. Like we, we're gonna stay together as a family this weekend. We can't go 500 miles away and stay in a hotel or get a flight or something like that, or a rental car and do all that stuff just for [00:41:00] one of our four children.
We, we can't do that, but they make it really difficult to my, again, my feelings are both bitter and sweet about it. I don't know how it's gonna go. I can only see that it's gonna continue in the commercialization end. That's kind of how I see it going. Um, where the people that are wealthy, the people that are willing to go for the resources and get the resources or have access to the resources are gonna be continuing to go up.
But there's, again, the sweet part is there's plenty, there's gonna be plenty of other people that. Don't wanna do that stuff that are still gonna find the resources, just like you and I did. We found the resources, we found there was a public park with a hoop and I can go and take 500 shots a day if I wanted to get better.
Or I happened to have a dad or a sibling that was knowledgeable and they helped me out with some fundamental drills so I didn't need to pay somebody a hundred dollars an hour, $50 an hour to work on my shot, [00:42:00] my sibling was able to help me. So there's gonna be plenty of other people that do that, and that's the sweet part.
I love the fact that, you know, you don't need to be on an AAU team to be a better basketball player. You don't need to even hire me to work on your mental skills. I'd love it if you did, and I, I guarantee you're it's gonna work, but you don't need it. It's really helpful. Just like you can go and do, set up some pushups, you don't need to go to a gym.
Right. Again, I'm not a strength coach, so I can't attest to all the benefits of that stuff, but that's what Herschel Walker did, right. Herschel Walker did set up some pushups, and that's how he became a, a really big, strong football player. So there's plenty of other things that, uh, that are out there. It just may be difficult or you know, you have to be a little more creative to find them.
It's less creative to write a check and to go to the local travel team and be a part of that. It's less creative and it may not be the best thing for that [00:43:00] child.
Jason Jacobs: You, you said something to me, I think the first time that we chatted where there was a discrepancy between the perspective of the parents. On what they thought their kid was thinking versus what their kids were actually thinking. Can you talk a bit about your experiences there?
John Couture: Sure. Again, if you, if you talk to a parent, sometimes the parent will say, yeah, I think Johnny is, you know, he's really high powered. He is really talented and I think he really wants to be, a division one football player. Okay. And then you talk to the little Johnny and he is like, no, I'm just playing football because my parents bring me to the field on Saturday mornings and that's what I'm supposed to do.
Like, that's why I'm doing it. So there is a huge discrepancy. Again, I'm talking in generalities now, so there are some exceptions, but for the most part, the younger, the kids are there just because the, just because their buddies are there just because it's something to do. It's to get outta the house.
It's to run around also because their [00:44:00] parents cheer them and give them reinforcement. Maybe buying ice cream after things like that, or spend time with 'em, right, because there's a car ride there. There's a car ride home. Sometimes there's a hotel room involved and things like that. There's a dinner involved, so there's some cool quality family time that happened, so that also could be motivating the child to keep doing it.
There's another motivation for a child to put forth effort. Because the parent may say, Hey, listen, I signed you up for this season. I paid a thousand dollars for this season. You're not quitting. So that happens sometimes too. So there's some monetary motivation on the kid's part, which is not that great to keep at it and keep working at it and stuff like that.
Now, no one's to tell a parent how to parent, right? We're not here to say that. No one's gonna say, you know, what's right or wrong or what they should or shouldn't be doing and things like that. But from my perspective, if you want the athlete, the child to really [00:45:00] engage and really be motivated, then you need to give them autonomy.
You need to give that child a chance to say no, or a chance to say yes and not just once for the rest of their career. Like, yes, I wanna play basketball. And then, okay, you're in basketball. But continue to reflect, continue to, to bring that up at regular intervals. Are you still liking this, Johnny? Is this still what you're looking for?
Is this still okay? Yes, it is. Mom or dad? All right, we'll keep going or no, I think I wanna try something new. Okay. Let's do it. So autonomy is a huge part of us. And normally we don't give the kids a chance to say yes or no to a particular sport or even to a particular level of a sport. 'cause sometimes they'll say, you know what?
I don't wanna play against all those good people. I wanna play with my buddies down here on the B team, you know, and I have more fun there. Okay. But the parent may say otherwise is that clear? Did I get that [00:46:00] point across with the autonomy part?
Jason Jacobs: You did? Yeah. I mean, I, I wrestled with that be honest, because like my parents gave me a lot of autonomy. And by autonomy I really mean permission to, completely underachieve in every aspect of my life. Uh, without any repercussions or even scolding. And and as a result that's what I did and I had a great time.
But when I look back, I actually feel some regret about the fact that I didn't. Have my act together and had all these resources and opportunities around me that I didn't take advantage of. Right. And I still regret that. And it's like, things worked out okay. It worked out great actually. I feel really fortunate, but, um, but like I look back on my youth with regret, right?
A lot of kids now, and then there's so many temptations around kids today, right? It's like the phone and video games and and uh, and distractions that, a lot of these kids, like, they [00:47:00] just aren't old enough to have the discipline to fight off all the dopamine. Right. And you can't blame 'em, right?
Because like, we can't even fight it off as, as grownup fully formed grownups, right? So I actually providing the kid and then when it comes to like the higher team, right? I mean, my kid for example, I don't think he ever would've pursued a higher team at each time, but then each time he has, he's like, I'm glad I did that.
And it was like a confidence thing, right? And so it's like, was that a good thing or a bad thing? Like when do you listen to the kid and when do you push? Right? I don't, I don't have the answer, but it, but to me it isn't, it isn't just as easy as saying like the kid needs to carve their own path.
And I, I'm not suggesting that's what you said, but but like that is a narrative, right? That gets said, and, and I, I don't know if I agree with it.
John Couture: Yeah. No. I agree. Again, we talked about communication and collaboration, right? Like that needs to happen. The child needs to have a say in what's going on. Again,
Jason Jacobs: A say for sure. A say.
John Couture: not talking about the parents, but
Jason Jacobs: but not, but that, yeah, but [00:48:00] not, not the, the, not the say, that I think that's the difference. Yeah. Not, I'm not disputing anything you said. I'm just saying that's like, that's the balance at least. And again, I would never tell anyone else how a parent but that's how I try to check.
It's like, all right, dude. Like you have input, right? But ultimately, mommy and I are gonna make the best decisions for you with your input. Right. And, and if it's like a dog, if you're trying to drag a dog and the dog is digging its heels in and, and very clearly and obviously doesn't want to go like that's a thing, and obviously listen to that.
Right. Um, but, but there's, you know, there's a lot of gray area nuance in there. I think that is, uh, is where the good stuff lies.
John Couture: I, I, I agree. Yes.
Jason Jacobs: The engagements that you take on, do they tend to have a, a life cycle, like, um, a certain duration and frequency or, or do they vary greatly from client to client?
John Couture: Th they do vary. They do vary. Some, some clients will wanna talk to me to, again, to make it to the next level or to educate themselves on particular concepts or something like that. And for [00:49:00] one reason or another, then, our relationship ends and then they move on, you know, and I feel very confident that what we talked about, what we were able to do, helped them move on.
That's great. And others. Like the support, they like the continued support, whether that's weekly or monthly, or sometimes even seasonally, like only during their season or only during their off season. Tho those things also occur. So the timing of mental performance training is widely variable. Again, like I said earlier, it's better if you, you do it regularly, so you have someone to check in on.
So you have a support group. I could be your support group and you're on the right direction. Because sometimes we can learn something and then for some reason we get distracted and we start going off on a tangent, and we don't know we're going off on a tangent maybe until it's too late. So having regular interactions with someone like me will help keep the, you know, the borders there so that you're going in the [00:50:00] right direction.
Jason Jacobs: Huh And for people that are intrigued about working with you, how do they what's the best way to get in touch? And also tell me about the course that you have coming out. 'cause I understand you're launching a new course soon as well.
John Couture: Sure. Thank you very much. Yes. I'm launching a new course with strength and conditioning and speed and agility people. So we're combining our talents to make one course. Um, it's called Athlete Accelerator, so I'm sure you can find it on Instagram. Uh, it's gonna be. Live. It goes live, uh, this Friday online athlete, I think it's under accelerator dot com.
They can find it. And what that's gonna be is a, again, a general mental skills with really some of my tried, true and definitely tested components for an athlete, for a youth athlete to really. Make the most out of, like at the time, like five minutes a day. They can work on their metal skills and they, you'll, they'll see, they'll see a [00:51:00] performance enhancement from that.
You can contact me personally either through that website or just go to kucher peak performance.com. I have my own other website and I'm on Twitter at Kucher bc I'm on LinkedIn, so they could find me a lot of other places. Um, I'm also on a, on a big huge service board called Sporting Bounce. It's a service board based outta the UK for all people like me, all mental performance coaches where it's kind of a one shop store where you can put in what you're looking for.
Maybe even a location. I'll, you know, I have Texas in there 'cause that's where I'm from. Kind like, kind of like coach up that you had before. And they can find out, who they can do and, and contact me through there.
Jason Jacobs: Great. Um, John, this was super helpful and interesting to me. Is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did or any parting words for listeners?
John Couture: No, I, I appreciate the fact that you're asking the questions about what is current and not what [00:52:00] used to be. We're not looking at like nostalgia and what used to be, but what's current. And again, like you said, what may be coming. 'cause of what is current. So again, I'm not necessarily a youth sport parent anymore.
I'm done with that but I'm in the youth sport field because I work with these, this demographic. And, and I, I want it to be the best. I want it to be the best. Again, not because of my opinion to be the best, but I want the kids to have the best experiences. From it. I've seen, again, I've seen the best and the worst of these things.
So if there's more questions that you can ask people like me and other diverse people around the world as to how to make it better keep doing it, keep doing it. Now you're in the hockey field, but do it in every other sport possible. They still are, again, they're still debating in soccer what the best route is.
They're def they're definitely doing in hockey. I know they're doing it in basketball. They're doing it in baseball, like. What the best development program is like, how do we do this? How, and other countries have their own little [00:53:00] niches of what they do. You know, UK with soccer clubs and stuff like that, it, it may work best for them.
It may not work best for us, right? So we have to figure out what we are best at and how it works best for us. But I think the thing to take into consideration is we're such a diverse country, right? We're so broad, we're so different. Um, so there may not be one answer, right? There may not be one answer to your questions, but keep asking the questions so we can come up with, with answers.
Jason Jacobs: That's, I mean, that's the hope of the show, is it, it's not to preach one worldview. It's to really explore these topics from a wide range of perspectives to inform my worldview, but so that each listener can inform their worldview as well. But to your point, there is no one right. Worldview, like everyone's gotta figure it out for themselves, which is what I'm trying to do as a dad and also as a, as a potential founder in this space.
So John, thanks so much for coming on the show. [00:54:00] Best of luck to you and, uh, I'm excited to check out the course for my kid and, uh, and, uh, and in general. So thank you.
John Couture: great. Thanks. Was a pleasure.
Jason Jacobs: Thank you for tuning in to The Next Next. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did and you haven't already, you can subscribe from your favorite podcast player, whether it's Apple, Spotify, or any of the others. We also send a newsletter every week on the journey itself. The new content that we publish, the questions that we're wrestling with, how the platform itself is coming along, that we're planning to build for player development, and where we could use some help.
And you can find that at the next next.substack.com. Thanks a lot and see you soon.