In this episode of Puck Academy, host Jason Jacobs speaks with Dwayne Blais, Skill Development Coach with the Detroit Red Wings and co-founder of Total Package Hockey (TPH) and the National Skill Development Association (NSDA). Dwayne shares his journey from starting hockey at age 9 to becoming an influential skills coach working with players at all levels, including youth through NHL. He emphasizes the importance of player development, best practices, and the evolving nature of hockey. Dwayne also discusses how competitive landscape is shifting, the role of parents, the integration of skill development into coaching, and the opportunities presented by the changing rules in the development path for young players. Additionally, the conversation highlights the balance between on-ice and off-ice training, the potential of AI and technology in hockey coaching, and the importance of cultivating good humans, not just good players. Dwayne concludes with reflections on his personal journey and the future of player development.
In this episode of Puck Academy, host Jason Jacobs interviews Dwayne Blais, a Hockey Canada certified skills coach currently working with the Detroit Red Wings. They discuss Dwayne's extensive experience in player development with teams like the London Knights, Hershey Bears, and Washington Capitals, as well as his work with youth hockey through his company, Total Package Hockey (TPH). The conversation covers Dwayne's journey from his late start in hockey to coaching, the importance of fundamentals like stick-handling and scanning the ice, and the challenges and strategies of developing elite hockey talent.
They also touch on topics like balancing skill development with a love for the game, the role of technology and analytics, and the changing landscape of hockey development pathways. Throughout, Dwayne emphasizes creating good people and maintaining a balanced perspective on the sport.
00:00 Introduction to Puck Academy
00:15 Meet Dwayne Blais: Hockey Skills Coach
01:23 Dwayne's Journey in Hockey
04:47 The Importance of Skill Development
06:54 Starting Total Package Hockey
12:48 Transition from Player to Coach
19:14 The Rise of Private Hockey Schools
24:00 Balancing Hockey and Life
32:42 Parental Influence on Athletic Development
34:19 Balancing Encouragement and Accountability
35:48 Personal Reflections on Parenting Styles
36:59 The Role of Self-Motivation in Sports
38:52 Challenges of Modern Youth Sports
41:16 Outdoor Rinks and Unstructured Play
44:50 Accessibility and Resources in Competitive Sports
49:58 Teaching Hockey IQ and Skills
55:54 The Importance of Communication and Scanning
01:02:00 Coaching Strategies for Skill Development
01:06:56 Accountability and Skill Development at Home
01:10:10 The Role of Coaches in Player Development
01:13:51 Analytics vs. Eye Test in Hockey
01:21:47 Teaching Hockey IQ and Player Development
01:32:18 Changes in the Development Path and NCAA
01:38:47 Final Thoughts on Hockey Development
[Jason Jacobs] (0:00 - 2:11)
Welcome to Puck Academy, a show about how hockey players grow on and off the ice. I'm Jason Jacobs, the host. And each week I talk with players, coaches, and experts shaping the future of player development.
Today's guest is Dwayne Blais. Dwayne is a Hockey Canada certified skills coach and current skill development coach for the Detroit Red Wings. Formerly, he spent extensive time working with the London Knights, Hershey Bears, and Washington Capitals in skill development.
He's also the founder of Total Package Hockey, or TPH, a player development company, and the National Skill Development Association, or NSDA, which is an online video resource helping coaches break down and teach hockey skills. Now, I was excited for this one because I've gotten to know Dwayne over the last several months, and he's extremely passionate about player development. He's got very high-level skills, and he's also worked with players at all levels of the game, not just NHLers, but, I mean, he's got a son that's a 2012, and he's very involved at the youth level, and he's worked with kids at the youth level, at the NHL, and everything in between.
Now, this was actually the longest episode I've ever done, and we didn't set out that way. We just had a lot to talk about. We talked about Dwayne's path in the game.
We talked about his thoughts on player development and parenting, and as anyone who is a hockey or sports parent knows, those are often quite intertwined. And we also talked about what Dwayne's observed over the years in terms of best practices, how the game is evolving, where the gaps and opportunities are, and where all of this is heading. I really enjoyed this discussion, and I hope you do as well.
Dwayne, welcome to the show. Hey, how you doing? Did I get that right?
Because I heard you say on other shows that everyone mangles your last name, and they don't get it the French way, so I tried to get it the French way, but I was the most mediocre French student of all time when I took it in high school.
[Dwayne Blais] (2:11 - 3:02)
No, no, no. No, you got it. It was funny.
So I'm from Northern Ontario, which is French, and I grew up French, and it was always Blais, and that was the name Blais. And then it's five letters. Really not hard to say if you're French, I guess.
But when I moved down south to play junior and then college, no one could say it. So literally one time I was at a bank, and I remember being like, what's your name? I'm like, Dwayne Blais.
Can you spell the last name? I'm like, yeah, B-L-A-I-S. She's like, oh, Blais.
I was like, yeah. Yeah, it's Blais. I must be messing my name up.
And people have called me Blais for years, and I was like, finally. Forget it. We'll just say Blais.
So normally, like in the States, I'll say Blais just because it's easier. But yeah, my last name is Blais. And you did a very good job, actually.
It was very, very.
[Jason Jacobs] (3:02 - 3:10)
Yeah, because I heard you say that people call you Blaiser, but we're just getting to know each other. I'm not about to introduce you as Blaiser.
[Dwayne Blais] (3:10 - 3:12)
No, no, no. It's good, man. No, you can feel it, Blaiser.
[Jason Jacobs] (3:12 - 3:20)
All you have to do is say that. Oh, it's good. It's good.
But I don't know. I don't feel like enough of an insider to pull it off.
[Dwayne Blais] (3:20 - 3:22)
No, you can do it. It's mine for sure.
[Jason Jacobs] (3:22 - 3:28)
Well, thanks for coming on. So we got introduced, I think, through Nathan Bowen or Bo, right? Another one.
Yeah.
[Dwayne Blais] (3:28 - 3:29)
I'm supposed to call him Bo.
[Jason Jacobs] (3:30 - 4:44)
Yeah. And you guys, what, you play together at Alabama Huntsville? Is that how you came across each other?
Yeah. Yeah. So he came on the show and talked all about the TPH origin story.
You, I understand, were a co-founder of TPH. And I've been really excited for this one because when he introduced me, or you, he said that you're the best player development guy he knows, but that you're humble, and so you're not going to find a lot out there about him. And he's soft-spoken and understated, but trust me, this guy's legit.
And then we've had, I forget if it was two or three phone calls, over the last several months. And then I looked up some of your stuff from before the Red Wings, when you were doing the, is it the NSDA? Where you had the podcast and some of the ice hockey systems and your coaches site, right?
And like, I love your stuff. And I think what, yeah, one of the things I like about it is that like you work with some of the best, but another thing I like about it is that like, you also think a lot about the little guys and girls and everything in between. Right.
And, and, and just so humble and, and understated, like Bo said. So anyways, I'm grateful. I finally pinned you down fresh off a road trip and thanks for making the time.
[Dwayne Blais] (4:45 - 6:53)
Thanks for having me, man. Yeah, no, it's great. Yeah.
And I I've, I've worked for like obviously years doing this and I've worked from, you know, with little guys, little girls for three, four, five years old, all the way up to NHL guys. So you kind of put on different hats when you're with the young kids and then put on a different hat when you're with the older guys, but a lot of the stuff translates, you know? So it's, and a lot of the coaches think that it's, you know, when you're working with, let's say a junior player or a kid that's potentially going to get drafted or a kid that's going to potentially go play midget AAA or, you know, U16, U18 AAA that you got to like really change everything.
You don't have to, it's just keep it simple, keep it easy, keep it direct and look at that player and kind of see what they need to work on. What type of player that player is number one and what they need to work on. And when I did the NSDA and I, I, the NSDA was a long title and it was called the National Skilled Development Association.
The reason for that was for anybody out there that's like looking at business and stuff was I wanted to eventually, like if I was going to continue doing that and really pursue it is reskin that for soccer, reskin that for baseball, reskin that for other sports, right? Or you could have guys like me that are looking for a second, you know, way to make another type of income and be able to just jump under the NSDA banner and they can make their own money on it. But do baseball, you know, tutorials.
And it never got to that point. It hasn't yet. Maybe it will down the road.
I don't know. I might be, might be done, you know, work on that stuff. But it was, that was my, that was my idea of it.
So I wanted to make it kind of general, even Total Package Hockey when I started in London, people were like, well, why don't you name it like after your name? Why don't you like, why don't you rebrand it as Blazer Hockey or, you know, whatever it is. Right.
And I'm like, no, I want it to be, you know, five other coaches, which I have some unbelievable coaches in London that, that have come on and helped me out and worked with me, but it's not Dwayne. It's, it's whoever's on the ice. And I, if they're on the ice doing the program that I trust them and they're good and they're going to deliver a good program.
Right. So I didn't ever want it to be about my name. And that was the whole NSDA thing was that, man, we can do this for other sports, you know, down the road.
So maybe that'll happen. I don't know. But yeah, that was kind of the idea behind it.
[Jason Jacobs] (6:54 - 7:03)
So maybe talk a bit about your path into the game. I mean, it seems like, gosh, I mean, the game has been a common thread through your entire life. So when and why, and how did that start?
[Dwayne Blais] (7:04 - 8:05)
Well, it's funny, like, you know, and this is not, you know, people can look this up, I'm sure, but I, like I didn't start playing until I was nine and I had a mom, my, my mom was a power skating instructor and she figure skated and played ring get, which is ring gets on a common U S sport. But in Canada, it was a basically you're playing hockey with a ring. And yeah, so she played ring get and she skated and was figure skater and taught power skating.
Like from time, I was like young all the way through and my dad played hockey and stuff. And so, you know, being from Sudbury, you have outdoor rinks in every neighborhood in Sudbury. So there's ice everywhere.
The winter starts in basically October, November, all the way through to March. Like you, you can skate anywhere. And so my mom and dad have two boys one year apart, like literally we're 14, 15 months apart and didn't want to play like zero interest in playing.
So this is coming up to like eight, nine years old now. So we missed the boat. Like our boat's gone.
Right. As far as the.
[Jason Jacobs] (8:06 - 8:08)
How are you going to get to the brick if you're, if you're not even playing?
[Dwayne Blais] (8:08 - 12:49)
Yeah. You're not, you're, you're done. You're done.
You're not elite. No, no, we're trash. We can, we honestly never, never even like really held a hockey stick much as far as playing like legit couldn't even skate really.
So at eight or nine, we move into this neighborhood and a bunch of kids were playing road hockey. So we started playing road hockey with them and kind of liking it. And like, we're terrible.
And one day I come in and my dad asked me every year, like from the time I was probably four or five, like, you want to play hockey? No, no, no. And my mom was very big on like, don't push them.
Like just, you know, but I was kind of getting anxious about it. And when we moved to this neighborhood, I was like, dad, I think I want to play hockey. And he's like, I got, I think by the time the word hockey came out of my mouth, we were both in the truck.
We were going to play it against sports and buying like used gear. And we were all kidding up and now we're playing hockey. My first year of hockey, this is getting my age a little bit, but in Sudbury, we had outdoor hockey leagues.
Like we played outdoor hockey in outdoor rinks. So my first team I ever played on was like an outdoor hockey rink, which is crazy, but legit like getting dressed in like the, in the, in the cabin and then going out and playing like outside hockey. So if it's snow and you're shoveling in between periods, like it was, but that was my first year.
And, and I couldn't skate, like put the gear on, like I could skate a little bit, but put the gear on, couldn't skate. My mom took us both, put us in a power skating program that she ran, but she wasn't on the ice for. And then after those two weeks, I learned how to skate way better.
It was two weeks of just skating. And from that point on, I fell in love with it. So what happened was in Sudbury, we lived no joke, 10, 50 minute walk to the outdoor rink.
So every day I'd come home, once I got, fell in love with it a little bit, I would come home, do my homework, bang it out four o'clock. I'd walk down to the outdoor rink. I'd be there till nine o'clock.
No joke. Every night, like every day. Game days, like Saturdays, we had a game.
Let's say I go down to the rink in the morning, play around a little bit, go home, go to my game. Like I just, I fell in love with it. And that was my skill development.
Like you think of skill development, you think of Wayne Gretzky, you know, and him, but he had an outdoor rink every winter and he spent hours on that thing. That was what I did. Right.
So I kind of caught up to my peers a little bit. I was bigger, stronger. So even parents now they're like, my kid's eight and he wants to play.
I'm like, get him into it. He's bigger, stronger, he's smarter. If he or she likes it, they're going to pick it up quicker.
If they really love it, like way better than three or four years old, like three or four years old, you're battling to get your kid to the rink. You're, you're bribing them with ice cream after the, after the skate or you know what I mean? So it's like, so that's kind of my start.
And then once I got into it, I just, yeah, I felt like legit fell in love with hockey and that was it. That was my, that was my life. And my brother was a year younger than me, way more talented than I was.
Natural skater, like could play, like he was very, very good. Just didn't love it as much as I did. And I just worked and worked and worked and worked.
And yeah, like that was my, that was my passion, man, for up until, I mean, I guess now, like I just, yeah, I love the game and I got, fell in love with it. So. When did teaching it start coming into the picture for you?
So going back to my mom, my mom ran the, the power skating program in, in Sudbury, what it was, it was like a two week kind of a, right before the season. So when in Sudbury, how it worked, it was tryouts were kind of September. So in a little bit of July, but end of July and then August, September was all power skating programs.
Like there was probably, I don't know, eight weeks of power skating programs, but they were all two week programs. There was one hour every night and you just did skating, no pucks, nothing, just skating. And when I was 14, I, I, now I was playing and I was, you know, I started volunteering at this program for through the city of Sudbury.
And then by 16, 17, I was teaching. Like I was like a head instructor. I was running as running sessions.
Right. Cause I knew the, it was very like, it was a unbelievable curriculum, but you, as a young kid, you kind of learned it taking it. And then when you started to teach, when you started helping out volunteering, you kind of knew how everything went.
And then it was a really seamless program to be honest with you on how they kind of brought you up. And, but anyways, by 16, 17, 18, I was running my own sessions. Like I was the head on ice for, for power skating.
And that was my, that was my bread and butter was skating. I was a good skater and I could, and then I started teaching it. And then when I taught it, I was like, I got better at skating just by teaching it because you're repetition and you're seeing what kids are doing wrong and you're trying to correct it.
And so, yeah, by 17, 18, I was full on like teaching skating. And that was kind of my, my into like the skill development part, I guess, looking forward or looking back on it. Now that was kind of my, my in on that whole thing.
[Jason Jacobs] (12:50 - 13:15)
You've played in college and then it looks like you went on to play for quite some time at various levels of pros. So maybe talk a bit about that journey and about the teaching path and about, you know, how the playing career ultimately ended in the teaching ultimately took over. Like, just like kind of what, what order and timelines did it, did all that transpire?
[Dwayne Blais] (13:15 - 19:13)
Yeah. So I went to, I was fortunate. I'd gotten, you know, out of Sudbury, I got a chance to play junior, junior hockey in Markham, which was a great experience.
And then from there, I was fortunate to get a scholarship to Alabama Huntsville, which at the time, when I, when I, that's where Bo went, that's where Bo and I connected. He was there a year before I was. And when I took, when I accepted the scholarship to Huntsville, Alabama, it was a D2 program going D1 the following year.
So I was going to go there and play one year D2, and then we were going D1 and that was, you know, that's what I wanted to go to as a D1 program. I had another year of junior left. So I had some schools looking at me and saying, Hey, stay back for one more year.
And I was like, all my buddies were already, you know, in college and doing their thing. And I had already sat back a year to play junior. And like, I don't know about one more year.
Anyways, I went to Alabama Huntsville and Alabama Huntsville was in, was it like a D1B program? Like it's not your Michigans or, you know, your Michigan States, your big schools. Obviously we played some, we played Michigan State, we played Bowling Green.
We played some unbelievable schools. It was awesome. But I knew that it was going to be like a D1B, which is fine.
My whole goal of going to Alabama Huntsville was to try to go play pro after. And for my, my goal, like at the time, this is back, you know, back when clutching and grabbing and the rules were different. My whole goal was just to push hockey as far as it could.
Like I wasn't, I'd love to play the NHL one day, but I knew realistically I was 5'8". I'm not probably going to play in the NHL the way the game was then. So I just wanted to push hockey as far as I could.
So I went to Alabama Huntsville, which was unreal. I had four years there. It was awesome.
Started TPH in the summer of one of my last years there. Started that business, which was great. And then I went on to play in East Coast League for, you know, three, four, three years, which was unbelievable.
It was awesome. I loved every minute of it. And then the year, 2005, I think it was, it was a lockout in the NHL.
So I was going to try to go to Europe at that point. I was like, you know, I'm not probably going to play in the NHL, which is fine. I'll go, I'll go to Europe and try to play in Europe.
I could skate. It was fine. I could play.
And then the lockout happened. So all the NHL guys flooded Europe. So I had opportunities to go to Europe, but it was like crappy leagues and like basically men's leagues in Europe.
I'm like, I'm not going, like, I'm not doing that. So then I kind of, I didn't play that. I decided that I'm not going to play.
I lived in London, Ontario at the time. We'd bought a business in London, Bo and I and a couple of buddies of ours bought a hockey school in London. So I was running that.
I had bought a house and I was like, I don't know. And then the team that I played for the year before, these closely called me and said, Hey, would you come back? And I was like, man, like, I don't know.
And literally when they called me, I was in my basement, in the basement of this house, I was renovating it to make an apartment. I had like, I had drywall dust all over me. I have them on my phone.
Like I'm, I'm a mess. I'm like, I, I, I don't think I'm going to go back. I think I'm in one right now.
And so I just, I, I pursued the business side of it and, and then, yeah, I kind of said, you know what, I'm going to get into this. And my, the whole thing too, I, I took exercise physiology in school. So I was going to train guys.
My thing was I was going to off ice train guys and like, really like, you know, work on the, on the performance side off ice. So I did that a bunch in London and then I was doing on ice as well. And then I soon realized that I'm probably more suited and better on the ice and I am off the ice as much as I love the off ice part of it.
I just felt like I probably had more value on the ice. So then that's kind of where things morphed in transition. We ended up long story short, but we ended up when I started in London, we, I left for a year.
I went and coached out in the queue, which is the CHL. So for viewers that don't know, it's like the OHL, the WHL and the QMJHL. I got an opportunity to go coach out in the QMJHL.
So I left everything, rented my house and just left my business and let it kind of sit for a year and went out to the queue coach there for a year. Loved it. It was awesome.
Unreal experience. But I was like, I don't know if I want to live in a U-Haul for... Was that your first time behind the bench?
Yeah, I'd been behind the bench, like minor hockey stuff, you know, spring team stuff like that. But no, this is like legit, like a, I was, you know, semi-professional coach now, like all of a sudden going in. And when, when I got, when the gentleman who asked me to coach with him in the queue, who I knew, he's, I asked him, I said, why do you want me to go?
I just finished playing. I'd been on the ice a bunch with like in, in London with like the London Knights, like the OHL team and stuff like that. I've been, I've been around, I've been doing stuff.
But I said, why do you want me to go coach with you? And he said, cause you can teach and we're a young team and I need someone that can teach and help these kids understand the game and teach the game. And that to me was like, okay, that makes sense.
Like I don't, I'm green. Like I'm super green at this point as far as coaching. So I went and did that.
It was unbelievable. It was great. But then I was like, I don't know if I want to be in a U-Haul or, you know, having moving around, you know, cause you're going to get hired and fired.
Everyone knows that. So I'm like, I don't know if I want to do that. And I had this business in London and I'm like, I think I want to try to pursue this business and try to push it for a year or two.
And at the time before I left, I was doing like seven different things trying to make ends meet. Like I was at no money. I was trying to make, you know, you're doing stuff for 50 bucks here, a hundred bucks here.
And I said, I'm going to go back, I'm going to live on debt and I'm going to push this business for two years. And if it doesn't work, I'm done. I'll go pursue my degree and I'll work in a clinic or do whatever.
And that's what I did. I went back to London and kind of pursued this, you know, this hockey and development and yeah, it took off. And once I put my whole time and effort into it, then it started to really roll and things started to really kind of take off.
And then that's kind of what took off in London and kept me there for, you know, 15, 16 years of doing development and working with, you know, I mean, yeah, three-year-olds to NHL guys in London. So it was great.
[Jason Jacobs] (19:15 - 19:28)
So what did player development mean generally at the time? And what does it mean now? And I guess same question about how did you think about player development then versus how you think about player development now?
[Dwayne Blais] (19:28 - 23:59)
It's funny because I had a parent, like how this all kind of started to explode for me was I had a parent come up to me, kid was a good player. And he came up and the mom and dad came up to me and said, Hey, would you do privates with my son? And I said, yeah, sure.
Like, yeah, for sure. But I've never done privates before. And I didn't even know, like, not that I didn't know what privates were.
Around that time, like I had never even heard that word privates. No, honestly, no one did privates. So I was like, yeah, for sure.
Like I can do that. But so I started working with this, with this young player and he was probably 13 at the time and really started teaching him. Like at the time I was, I was into skill development as far as my mind was.
Like I could break down how to take a snapshot. I could break down how to take a snapshot and stride and really like step into it and whatever. Right.
So I worked with this kid a bunch. And he came back the next season. This is playing AAA and parents are like, what the hell did you do?
Like, what, like, what did you do with your kid? Like, cause we worked a ton. We worked like two, once, twice a week all summer.
And we like, and I, and I worked on, like, I was like, you know, you got to shoot better, better, whatever. And he was dominant when he came back. And, and then that, then I got, you know, other parents like calling and it's very, you know, it's like, it's very hush hush.
Like no one wants to say who they're working with or who they're doing stuff with. Right. So starting to get out a little bit that I was working with certain kids and, and then it just started like, you know, blowing up a little bit.
And I was very private on who I worked with and not, not in a bad way, but just like, I didn't expose anybody, but I just, and then more kids and more kids and more kids. And then we have programs. We had other stuff going on too for, for, for other players and stuff.
But then that's how it started taking off. I had a couple of kids that I worked with that were like, you know, legit. And then a company from Toronto came to us, came to three different development companies in London and said, Hey, we want to do a private school in London.
And they vetted, you know, another school, another company, another company in us. And I was like, again, I had no money. It was like, yeah, I'll check it out.
So I went down to Toronto, checked out their school. And I was like, if I was 13, 14, this is exactly where I want to be. Like a private, you know, a school where you're doing school hockey working out.
I'm like, yeah, man, how do we bring it to London? So then we worked out a deal, brought it to London. So that kind of, again, separated us from, from the rest of the pack.
Right. We started this private school. We had seven kids our first year.
Like it was a joke. We weren't making any money. Didn't never want it to make money on it.
It was just, this was to me, this was the right thing to do for the kids in London that wanted to do it, that could afford it and afford it one thing. But we also had kids that like couldn't afford it. And we said, Hey, listen, if you mock the gym, if you do this and this and this, like we'll help you out with it.
Like we'll, we'll like, we'll help subsidize some of the costs for this. Like I wasn't with the money for me at all. And so we had some like legit players, man.
Like, and I'll name some names. I'm not a name dropper, but like, we had like Nick Suzuki at our school. We had Travis Konechny.
We had Lawson Crouse. We had like, we had like legit players at our school that are playing in the NHL. They're captains, assistant captains, you know, like it's unbelievable.
Like, so, and these are all young kids. Like I met these kids at 13, 14. I was working with them.
It's like, Hey, we're doing this academy. Like, you know, the parents are like, man, it sounds really cool. Like, so we ended up having like some unbelievable players.
Jerry McCann was there. Like, I'm just trying to think of guys that, but like legit guys playing the NHL right now that came through this small little academy that we ended up going from seven to like 14 to, at one point we were 35, but I called it more of like a boutique academy. We had like, I never wanted it to be really big.
I wanted it to be small and didn't have to be elite. You didn't have to be triple A. I just wanted kids that want, like we had a kid that came to us.
He was a B player at 13, probably, you know, 15, 20 pounds overweight. And ended up going on, you know, years later and played D3 college hockey and had an unreal run, like, and just a kid that was a worker and awesome. And, you know, like, so we, we, it didn't matter.
Like the guys that play in the NHL is unbelievable, but the other guys were unbelievable stories too, that just were around good people that cared about them. You know, I didn't care about any of the politics, any of the bullshit, any of the other stuff that's going on around. You know, if, yeah, if you need a hand money-wise, we'll help you out.
Don't worry about it. But like, if you want to do this, like we're here for you, let's do it. And we, yeah, we had a lot of success with it.
And it's still running. Like it's still going now. It's awesome.
[Jason Jacobs] (24:00 - 24:44)
When you look at the rise of the, I don't know what you call it, maybe the skills economy, right. You know, the, the business of hockey, the spring tournament teams, the, the private lessons, the academies, the edge work, the shooting lessons, the, you know, Zoom film review, whatever, right. Like it's, it's all a business.
What are the elements of it that you think are healthy, effective, useful for the kids? And what are the elements of it that you think are, you know, predatory or, or a load of crap? And, and also does it matter as you look like up and down ability levels and up and down age levels?
[Dwayne Blais] (24:45 - 27:35)
Yeah. I mean, I have two kids going through it right now. Like I've got a daughter who's 11 and a son who's 13.
And they're right in the mix of this whole thing. And like my son and my daughter haven't played in hardly any spring tournaments. I feel like spring tournaments are the wild west.
The refs suck. The coaches have backwards hats on and shorts and flip flops on the bench. Like a lot of the spring summer tournaments are a joke overall.
Now you got your best on best and your elite tournaments, which parents want to go to. Cause all the best kids are there. They get to know all the best parents.
And like, I just think it's, I think it's a joke. And I look at it also as like, you're going to go to Toronto. You're going to go to Boston.
You're going to go to Buffalo, whatever it is for spring tournament. You're going to spend 1500 bucks, probably minimum on your fees, your dues, your hotel, your food, everything like that. What can you get for 1500 bucks with an unreal strengthening, conditioning skills, coach, mental, whatever you're going to put your money into.
But now some of these parents do like five or six of these tournaments. So now you're looking at another six, seven, eight grand of just money. I mean, for six, seven, eight grand, you got two, three summers covered of like full training, full honest touches full.
Like, so I'm, I'm big on when with my kids too. Like I want my kids to be kids. I want them to go to the pool.
I want them to do swimming. I want them to like compete in basketball or swimming or tennis or whatever they want to do and be athletes. And, you know, so, and I'm not saying my kids are going to be anything, but I'm just saying like, at the end of the day, I just, I don't understand the whole hype, but these parents get so caught up with it.
I think a lot of parents get caught up in the, I got to keep up with the Joneses and what are the Joneses doing? Well, I got to do that. Like, oh, there's going to this skilled program.
I got to go there or I got to do this spring tournament. Cause they're going all the best are all going to be there. And, and you know, as well as anybody like being involved in it, like it's crazy.
Like it is insane that the parents, the whole hype around these 13, 14, 15 year olds, like they're 15 years old. Like think of what we were doing at 15 years old. It's insane.
You know? So I just, I really take a step back on it. I just, I, I'm not caught up in the hype at all.
I don't care. And I tell parents all the time, like put your horse blinders on for your kid, know what your kids like, know what he wants or she wants, know what they like, what drives them and then feed that, you know? And, and I just, I, I'm not, I'm not into it.
I just, I think like, I think the skill development stuff, if you find a good skills coach, I think it's great. You know, if you can get in and work with them, but it also depends on the kid. If the kid wants to do that, then I say a hundred percent do it.
If the kid doesn't want to do it or is bucking you on it, then don't, don't spend the money on it. As frustrating as it's going to be as a parent, because you want the best for your kid. You got to make sure that they're, that they're willing and they want to do it, you know?
[Jason Jacobs] (27:35 - 28:44)
That's almost surprising to hear because I know, I know where your older guy plays and I mean, it's, I mean, it's one of the, one of the top teams in, in the country and, and certainly the perception is that for the little guys, right? And, and the perception is, is that in order to play at that level, right? It's, it's like, there's pressure to specialize earlier and earlier to go year round.
You're kind of beaten over the head with like, you know, the Kobe Bryant clips about how, you know, when you're sleeping, like, you know, someone else is grinding and, and all the extra grinding you do compounds over time, right? And so the kids and the parents think like, you know, if I want to get there, like I got to grind, especially when you hear about how much harder the path is getting, given some of the rule changes at the top, which then percolate, you know, down one level at a time, all the way until they get to the youth level. So let's say you do love it, right?
How do you balance like trying to maximize your chances of going as far as you can with all those other things that you said, like not burning out, not getting injured, not, not having it feel like a job, still getting to be a kid, still having friendships, still going to the pool. Like it's sometimes it feels impossible.
[Dwayne Blais] (28:45 - 32:50)
No, for sure. And I think honestly, one of the biggest things checking with your kid and talking to your kid, you know what I mean? Like, do you want to go do this?
Do you want to, you know, and sometimes you got to push them. Don't get me wrong. I'm not, not saying like, cause if there's an opportunity to go, you know, to a buddy's house or to practice, you know, they're going to want to go to the buddy's house.
Sometimes you're like, buddy, you committed to this team. You got to go to the practice. Like, but I think, you know, and then also too, like, I think it's big on even my wife and I, like we all, we, we talk about dads or moms making all these decisions, but even like as a family, like, you know, every summer, the last two, three summers we've gone out to, you know, my, my, where my wife lives out in Eastern Canada and the kids have gone out for three weeks and parents like, you're going, you're going like, you're off the ice for three weeks. I'm like, yeah, they're off the ice for three weeks. Like they, you know, and, and, and my kids, I've had like workouts through their teams and different things like this.
You've got to run, you know, a couple of miles a week. And, and they do that out there. They, they work out, they, and that's up to them again.
Like I'll go to my kids and be like, Hey, like you should probably run a mile today. And like every parent out there, that's like, my kid always runs miles. He loves it.
No, they don't. No kid loves running a mile like, or two miles. Like, so they balked me on it.
I'm like, you don't have to do it. I don't care. And then they feel guilty about it.
And they're like, okay, I'll do it. I'm like, I'll do it with you. Let's go.
And we'll run a mile. Like we'll go do it, but try to push them in the right way. But also they got to make the decisions on this.
Cause as they get like, the one thing too is a lot of the kids, a lot of the guys that we see now in at the pro level, they've been silver spoon their whole life. Okay. They've been yellow brick road their whole life.
So now they get to the NHL and it's not that easy. It's hard. It's a hard league.
Obviously the AHL is a hard league. Like all these leagues are hard and they're getting healthy scratch or they're playing 10 minutes and they can't handle it. They don't know how to handle it.
And they can't call mom and dad and be like, call the coach and tell them that you're going to pull your $10,000 out of the budget. If I don't play anymore, like, you know, I'm not saying that's, but you know what I mean? Like, so they can't handle that adversity.
And some of the guys that do are the guys that keep rising up. The guys that can't handle that. They're the ones that fall down.
And that doesn't start at 1920. When you're making a million dollars a year, playing an adventure level contract in the NHL that starts at five, six, seven, eight, nine. So as parents, we're not doing them any service by paving this yellow brick road for them.
Like you gotta like, let them make decisions on stuff and they're going to make wrong decisions. Like, you know, tell my daughter, Hey, like you got a mile run. You know, you should probably do your mile run.
Like, I don't want to do it. I'm like, okay, well, should I do it? I'm like, it's up to you.
Like totally up to you. Why I don't want to do it. I'm like, okay, don't do it then.
And then she doesn't do it. And then she's rattled about it. I'm like, well, that's on you.
Like you didn't do it. And over the course of the summer, you don't feel as good coming back. And at the start of the year, you're out of shape.
I told you 17 times this summer, every week I told you that you should run this week and you didn't do it. And now this is on you. Like, you know what I mean?
So, and I've had these, like, my kids are young, but we've gone through this with them. And I'm like, do you want to listen now? Do you want to start doing this stuff or not?
Like, it's up to you. I don't care if you never play hockey again. I don't care.
And this has nothing to do with hockey. This is like finishing that project for work. This is finishing your pay, your mortgage.
This is like, cause when you get to the real world, like you got to pay your mortgage, you have to, if you don't pay your mortgage over several months, you're going to lose your house. So, you know, it's, it's, it's one of those things where, what are we doing with these kids? We've got to teach them like how to be human beings, you know, and it starts this kind of stuff, especially if they're motivated by it.
Cause it's really easy when they're motivated by it. Cause they know when they're, when they're making the wrong decision, they're just human beings. They're gonna make the wrong decision.
They're not going to want to work out, which is totally normal. Who wants to work out? Like, let's be honest overall.
Like, you know, if you had a, out of seven days, you had to work out four, like I'd, I'd take the option on at least three of them just do by one day. It'd be good with it. You know what I mean?
So they're no different.
[Jason Jacobs] (32:51 - 34:30)
I think we might've talked about this in some of our chats before we did the show. But I think what's confusing for me is you hear people that have achieved at very high levels, talk about their journey. And and frequently I'll hear them say things like the biggest thing you can do for your kid, your job after the game is just tell him how much you like watching him play.
Like don't push him. Like just, you know, encourage him, create a safe environment. And then if they love it, they'll pursue it.
Right. But I look at like my own upbringing and look, I, I had a wonderful upbringing. I'm very grateful for my parents.
They did their best to provide every opportunity, but that was kind of their approach. Like just loving and supportive and like you figured out, and we don't want to push you because like, we want you to do what you love. And like, I was like the most brutal underachiever.
Right. And I, I was like, like the epitome of like, like unrealized potential, not that I had a lot of potential. Oh, I had so much potential, but like whatever my potential was, I didn't really realize even a smidge of it.
Right. And, and then, and then later on professionally, right. I became the opposite, like so self-directed and ambitious.
So on the one hand, when I'm raising my kids, right. It's like, well, I want to, I want to push them harder. Right.
Because I want to help them reach their potential and not have the regret from that first path. But then it's kind of like, well, but if I was pushed harder, would I have ever had that hyper ambitious, like second act. Right.
And like, it's a good question. Right. Like, I don't, but like, I'm interested to hear your views on that, especially given what we were just talking about, about the, the yellow brick road and how important the love is.
[Dwayne Blais] (34:30 - 40:01)
It's funny you say that. Cause I was, I was similar to you. Like when I grew up, my mom and dad were very, my mom was probably harder on me, not in a bad way at all, but like my, my mom would say, Dwayne, it's a little puck.
You just got to put the little puck in that net. Like it's so, then that's so big. And I'm like, mom, I'm trying, you know?
And my dad was very like, good job doing, you played really well. And I'd be, I didn't play good today. I was terrible today.
I was hard on myself. And I think it goes back to knowing your kids. So my dad knew that I was really, really hard on myself and looking back on it now.
Right. And he didn't have to push me. Like he did not have to push me.
I legit would remember waking up in the mornings when I was 13, 12, 13, 14 and like going into my parents' room at seven in the morning. He'd be like, Hey, I'm going to the outdoor rink. They were both still sleeping.
Like, Hey, I'm going to the outdoor rink. And I had my bag packed. I walked down the outdoor rink.
My mom would drive in at like, this is a day I didn't have hockey. Let's say, and I'd be there before anybody was there skating around, shooting pucks, whatever. There'd be an outdoor game going on.
So I'd go on the little, like they have usually like a little practice, like a little, like other rink. I'd go on that rink for a little bit. And then that game would be done.
I'd jump back on that rink. So like, they didn't have to motivate me that way. I wish my dad was harder on me.
Like when I look at it now, I wish he was harder on me. Kind of like you're saying, I wish he'd have been like, no, you gotta be better. Like, I wish he would have held me more accountable.
So now with my kids, I'm very hands off. Like I don't get mad at them. I don't yell at them, but I will tell them like, you know, the other day, for instance, my son comes home after a game.
I'm like, you know, how do you think he played? I was like, and he's always, I don't know what your, what, what your kids are like, but my son is always like, good, play good. And my wife was at that game with me and we were, it was an awful game like for him.
And I was like, Madison, if that was good, like that's crazy that you think that was a good game. Like, so, and he's very, not, not a huge communicator. Probably like most normal boys just doesn't like express them.
I have a daughter and a son. My daughter will tell me everything. She'll come in the car and be like, I was shit today.
And I was like, yeah. So I don't have to be that hard on her. Cause she knows she's like, I was shit.
I'm like, now I'm like, I'm pulling back where I want to give it. I'm like, yeah. You know, and kind of now I'm like white gloving it a bit with her.
My son was like, that was good. Like you were not good. You know, I said, I'm biting my tongue.
Like I can't. So anyways, I have the conversation with them. Like I have a whole conversation with them.
We ended up going through that, that game was videoed obviously. So which every game is videoed now. So we look at a couple of new shifts.
I'm like, like, what do you think? Like, what do you see here after kind of talking through it? I'm like, do you want to watch some of your shifts?
And he's like, okay, fine. And he doesn't love doing this. And I don't do it a lot with them and I should do it more probably.
And I think for any parent, I know me personally, when I started like back in the day, like it was VHS. It was brutal. But you'd look at your shifts.
You'd like, I thought I played really good. And I'd watch a shift and be like, oh my God, I could have got that puck. Or oh crap, I should have finished that hit or whatever it was.
So we watched some shifts together, not a lot, five, six shifts. And I was like, what do you see here? Like, he's like, you know, and he's not really admitting it, but I could tell he's getting it.
And I'm saying like, if you go here, you're already there, whatever it was, right? And then the next game he goes out and plays night and day better. And I, after the game was like, how do you think that game went?
He's like, I thought it was good, like worst adjective ever, but okay. All right. I'm like, honestly, way better.
That was way better. But I'm like, do you need me to spank you in the ass for you to play better? Or can you just do this?
Like, you got to like figure this out, man. Like, cause I'm not going to be able to do video with you every day and not going to be able to like spank you in the ass every day. You got to like, know, like, so it's like that whole learning process of like, you've got this in you.
You shouldn't have to see it and me, you know, getting pissed at you about it. You know? Cause I said to him, like, I don't care if you play AAA.
And if you're going to play like this, we're not playing AAA anymore. I'm saving the money. Mom and dad are going on a trip.
You guys can play house league and enjoy life and play with your buddies. And it'll be great. But, you know, so it's, it's one of those things.
So to your point that going back to the, the, the original piece is like, I think it depends on the kid where I think, yeah, they got to be pushed a little bit. And if my kids come to me and saying, I want to play AAA on this team. Well, this is here that you got to get to here.
If you're not going to be at this level and play at this level and compete at this level and practice and games, then what are we doing? Like, I'm not just a flowing money out. Cause we all know how much competitive sports comments, like not just flowing money out for this.
Like I'm way too conscious of money that I way rather save that money for my retirement rather than watch you blow my money doing this. You know what I mean? So, um, yeah.
I try to make, try to like make them conscious of that. Number one, that like, if you're not going to give it an effort and honest effort, every shift and we're wasting our time or spin our wheels right now. You know what I mean?
So it was actually a good exercise with him. And, but I, I think you got to like see what your kids are like and how to hit those buttons with them. Cause to your point, like, you know, if you were pushed more, would you have achieved more as a young athlete or young, you know, as a young student or whatever.
Right. And same with me.
[Jason Jacobs] (40:01 - 40:09)
Like I might've achieved less. I might've achieved less though. Cause I might've just repelled and been like, get like, like get the F away from me.
Like that could happen. Yeah.
[Dwayne Blais] (40:09 - 40:55)
And maybe your parents knew like, you know, kind of what buttons to push. I don't know, but I'm, I am conscious of that though. Like now that going through it as when I look back on my childhood, I'm like, I don't know if my parents knew what they were doing.
I have no idea, but they didn't have to push me. Like at times my dad came up to me when I was like 17, 18. He's like doing, you gotta like, you gotta take a day off.
You gotta settle down. Like you're going too hard right now. You know, like you gotta, and I was like, no dad, like, no.
Like, and you know, I, I didn't listen to him. I kept pushing, but I was like, no, like I, I, I got it. You know, I was small, I was undersized.
I was like, I, I gotta be better than these guys. I gotta be stronger than these guys. I gotta be faster than these guys.
Like, so yeah, it's just kind of knowing, like knowing your kid and like how to approach them and, and how to push their buttons. Cause it's, it's, it's not easy for sure. Being a parent, it's not easy.
[Jason Jacobs] (40:56 - 41:56)
I want to go back. I mean, what you talked about with you, a big turning point was once you love the game, you know, the ice was there from October to March or whatever. So you could just go out when your homework was done and you could just do it.
And you weren't all scheduled up. Like, like kids are today. I mean, I look where we are.
I don't know how it is where you are. I'd love to know, but, but like one, you don't have that same outdoor rinks from October to March and that same access, but two, everybody's so scheduled up that even if you did, it'd just be like you and yourself. Right.
And you wouldn't have anyone you're left or your right to, um, to play with. So one, just how is it where you are? And two, how, you know, given, how do you think about grind?
Right. Um, but, and I don't mean forcing it upon them, but like, you know, below a certain age, like they aren't necessarily, they don't necessarily have the agency to be the keepers of their schedule and they certainly don't have the wallet paying the bills for it. So how do you determine how much or how little to do, let alone what to do?
[Dwayne Blais] (41:57 - 44:50)
It's funny, man. Cause I'm probably old school coming from Sudbury. Like, so first question, I guess here in Detroit.
The weather's hit and miss. Like we, I put an outdoor rink in at our house during COVID in London when I was in London, Ontario. And I told the kids, I'm like, I don't care if you guys skate on it or not, we're in COVID.
I'm just doing this for me. Like I totally did it for fun just to see if I could do it. Had one up.
They use it all the time. So from that point on, I did one every year. Even when we moved to Detroit, we bought a house and there was a bunch of lumber under the deck.
And in November I was like, ah, you know what? Screw it. I'm going to grab this lumber.
I'm going to build a rink. So I just built like a little rink out in the backyard. And the kids used it.
It was great, but it's hit and miss. Like we'll get, you know, 10 days on and then it'll melt up a bit. And then we'll get another 10, 15 days on.
Like last year was good. The year before was brutal, but we'll see how it is this winter. But my thing with the kids though is like, and I look back at my own childhood, I'm like, I used to go grab pucks.
Like I'd take about a little bag of pucks and a stick and a little piece of like plastic that I had. And I go to the school by our house in like the crappy months. And I would just shoot pucks against the brick wall.
So like, that's like an extreme, I get it. But it's like Sidney Crosby shooting pucks in his dryer, like whatever. But if you want it, like you can stick handle in your garage.
You can go roller blade outside. You can shoot pucks wherever. Like you can go find a cement wall somewhere to shoot pucks on, or you can shoot tennis balls.
It doesn't matter. But if you want it, like you can go get it. And that's my thing with my kids.
I got to see, I got to see you wanting it, you know? So, and I've been fortunate so far, like not a hundred percent consistently, but I've seen like both my kids want it. Like both of them have been on roller blades.
Both of them have been without me saying anything. They just jump out of the rinks. If we do have a rink, like they're out there.
Like they're going out after school or before school, they're going to shoot. And it's unstructured. I'm not going out there with them.
I will go out if they ask me to, but they go out on their own. And it's there for you guys. Like we have a little sport court in the backyard that I put up just for basketball and rollerblading or whatever.
But they'll go out and do it. And that tells me a little something that, okay, they're willing to do it, you know? So it's like, I have a hard time finding excuses, like even a workout.
Like you give me a 10 by 10 room and I can do a workout in a 10 by 10 room. I can do pushups. I can do squat jumps.
You know what I mean? So it's like, I didn't work out today because I was in a bad hotel room. Well, and they had no gym.
Well, you can figure something out. So if you don't want to work out, that's totally fine. But if you're making excuses, like I'm not buying it, you know?
So I'm the same with my kids. Like there's, you know, if you want to get better, you can get better. If you don't want to, that's totally up to you.
[Jason Jacobs] (44:51 - 46:04)
Everyone talks about the accessibility problem in the sport. And, I mean, it's no secret. Why?
The sport's a fortune, right? And then there's this whole keeping up with the Joneses. And in order to play AAA, you need to do the tournaments and travel.
And then all the AAA kids are doing so much extra outside. And then there's all this FOMO about like, oh, you're doing that? I should be doing that too.
Oh, you're doing this? I should be doing that too. So I get that, right?
So on the one hand, you can say, oh, like if you're rich, you can just buy it, right? And you can like, you know, work with, like, I've heard crazy stories that people have like five different player development coaches for one kid or, you know, just, you know, a bunch of handlers, right? But then on the other extreme, it's like, oh, like, you know, what about the kid that like really wants it but doesn't have all those resources?
But then to your point, if that kid really wants it, like there's a way, right? Whereas if they're buying it, it's like, well, what is the motivation? Like are they just doing it because it's there?
Is it getting forced down their throat? Or are they hungry? Right?
And so I guess the question is, how do you balance providing resources with keeping them hungry? And to the extent that there is a, I don't know, like, I guess just how do you think about that tension?
[Dwayne Blais] (46:06 - 49:49)
Yeah, I think for the parents that don't have the resources, it can be difficult sometimes, but you can do stuff at home. Like if your kid's super motivated and like loves the game, like you can, you know, for free basically, you can set up something where they can shoot pucks or they can stick handle pucks or you can look online. There's a ton of free resources online where you can look at how to stick handle, you know, how to work on your stick handling, how to work on your shooting and things like that, you know?
So I think there's now in the age that we're at, like, there's not really a lot of excuses for that. Now, the parents that don't have the resources, can you play AAA hockey? And like, no, you can't.
It costs 10, 15 grand to play AAA hockey. Like, it's insane, you know? So it's tough that way.
But if they're young enough, I think you just keep feeding the fire. I tell parents all the time, like, my kid wants to play hockey 12 months a year, like, and you know, people are like, oh, they're gonna get burned out. I'm like, no, they're not gonna get burned out if they love it.
If they love it, you feed the fire. You know, if they're bucking you and they're like, hey, dad, I want to play soccer this summer or I want to, you know, go to the pool. Like, that's okay.
Like, you know, you gotta like, you know, and some of the kids that are going to be elite someday may want some time off and that's okay. So I think that's one thing. And even some of the parents that have resources and are paying for the kids to do all these privates and stuff like that, there's nothing wrong with that.
If your kid wants to do it and you have the money to do it, fill your boots. Like, if he's motivated or she's motivated and she wants to be on the ice and she wants to get better, like, and you have the money to do it, go ahead. I think the first part of your, of what you said, I think is really important.
The players that have five, six coach, like development people in their skill coaches, whatever it is around them, it gets to be like scrambled eggs in their head. It gets to be too many, you know, cause I may be telling them to do this. And then the other ones tell them to do something different.
And then it's too much. I think you, and this is what I said to guys when I was working on them, when I was starting out all the way through is, if you're working with somebody else on skating, let me know and I'll lay off the skating part of it. And I'll focus more on the shooting and the puck handling stuff.
You know what I mean? And cause I don't want to, I don't want to counterdict what they're saying. And I don't want it to be too many messages for you.
Just be open and honest with me. I don't care. And if you're working with me as a skill development coach and another skill development coach, then pick one.
It doesn't have to be me, but pick one. Cause if we're both working on puck handling, shooting, how to like protect the puck and he's working on the same thing, then just go work with him because we're going to have some different stuff for sure, a little bit at some point and go with whoever you trust. And for any parent that has resources or if you have a good friend or whatever and you trust them, then stay with one or two people.
Like just trust that you'll try to, if you have an elite player, like 13, 14, 15, and you're working with skill coaches, try to surround them with good people around them that genuinely care about them doing, cause you know better than anybody. And I know better than anybody. A lot of these skill coaches are just there for the dollar.
Like they're there for the a hundred bucks a session or 50 bucks a session or whatever it is. You know, you find a skill coach that genuinely cares and genuinely wants the best for your kid. You know, try to stick with that person obviously.
And like, they want the best interest of your kid. Yeah. They're going to make money on it.
I've always been honest with them. Like I'm running, doing skills and running a private session. Like, yeah, it helps feed, keep my hydro on helps feed my family.
But at the end of the day, like if you can't pay today, that's fine. Like we'll, we'll, we'll work it out. You know, like it was never about the money as much as it's my job, but I, if I love the kid and I want the kid to do well, like let's, we'll figure out a way to make this work.
You know what I mean? And so it's just surround your kid with good people that, that genuinely care about them and want them to do well and succeed. You know?
[Jason Jacobs] (49:50 - 50:02)
There's an, a narrative out there that the skill level of games never been higher, but the, you know, the IQ or thinking the game has really suffered. Do you agree or disagree with that narrative and why or why not?
[Dwayne Blais] (50:04 - 52:46)
I think we're seeing like, you look at kids like Celebrini, you look at like some of these high end young kids that are in the league right now, right? Like Fantilly, Celebrini, obviously like McDavid's a little bit older now, but I mean, hockey IQ is not terrible. And we've all heard these, these, these clips and stuff of all our kids just look at highlight reels right now.
See, look at all the highlights stuff, which I totally understand that. But can you develop a hockey IQ? I think you can, to a certain extent, you know, are you going to turn a kid who's not really grasping the game into a Wayne Gretzky or Connor McDavid?
No, but can you help them understand the game a little bit better and understand situations better? For sure you can. And that's through honestly video and watching games and like sitting down with them and saying, Hey, see what your left winger, see what the winger's doing here.
See how they opened up and like going through that stuff. And it may take five, 10, 15, 20 times of going through video with them, but I think they can understand the game a little bit better. And I think it's, I think that'll help them for sure.
I feel the biggest difference from how the game's evolved is the skill level has gotten crazy good. I think the game's gotten way softer. I think the game's gotten way softer and I think it's attitudes of the players.
It's entitlement of the players. It's old school being out of the players, like all that stuff. Like we just, we have some players on our team right now that like we have a player today that played with a, you know, with them foot blown out and had his skate cut open so he could put his foot in it and play through it.
You don't see that anymore. Like that does not, that's a, that's a two week injury out. I'll collect my paycheck.
See ya after Christmas. You know what I mean? Like we, there are those guys still exist, but we as parents, honestly, and coaches, we got to like cultivate that block shots.
Like it's part of the game. It is part of the game. And if you go on, if you came to the NHL right now and you just finished all your hits, block shots, could handle a pocket, make a pass.
Cause they can all skate and shoot and everyone like, let's be honest, everyone in the draft right now can skate, shoot, pass. You can block a shot, finish all your hits and be good in the D zone. You can play in the NHL.
Like, you know, I'm being very like very, you know, but you know what I'm saying? Like, it's just, if you did those hard things that guys don't want to do, you'd separate yourself from other players. You know what I mean?
So it's, it's not difficult. And the hockey IQ part of it, just understanding your position, understanding what's demanded of you, what you need to do, and then rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat and, and doing, you know, doing those things. Right.
[Jason Jacobs] (52:47 - 53:27)
I hear a lot about, you know, more and more chatter about, you know, video IQ, thinking the game, working on things like learning to scan and stuff like that. But I also hear more and more about stuff and maybe it's a buzzword. I don't know, but like ecological coaching environment, like, you know, small groups like high compete stuff, like stuff that, you know, taught in ways that's far more translatable to the game environment.
Are those separate threads or are those interrelated? It also seems like you, like you've been talking about a lot of that stuff too. So it'd be great to understand just like where those fit into how you think about a, you know, like your own development methodology.
[Dwayne Blais] (53:28 - 55:38)
As far as the compete side of it, I think it's, I think you, you probably have it or you don't, you know what I mean? Like you have kids that, and players that are competitive. And it's not even about like growing up, you always want it to win at board games.
You always want it to win that. That's fine. But does he always want to win when there's a stick in his ribs?
Does he always want to win when there's a battle at the net? And is he going to go there? Like, are they willing to do those little things, you know?
So how do you make players tougher in those situations? Like, and it's a lot of it's innate. Like a lot of players are going to go to that area and some players are not going to go to that area.
Right. So it's can you put them in environments where they realize that it's not that bad, it's going to hurt for a second. I'm going to get a stick in the ribs.
I'm going to get a stick in the, in the back. And, but it's not that bad. And you know what?
I'm going to get rewarded for this. I might tip a puck in, I might get a rebound. I might, you know what I mean?
And that, that is that reward better than that stick in the ribs. Like, I think a hundred percent of it is right. Some players don't think it is and that's why they don't go there.
There's like, I don't, I don't want to get a stick in the ribs. So, and more at the young ages, but as you get older and as you get like, you know, to this level, let's say at the NHL, like, man, if you're willing to do that, you, again, you separate yourself from other players. So can you, in practice and in, in skill development sessions, can you put players in environments like that where you're like, these are the key areas that you got to be around.
Like you got to be good on the wall. You got to understand how to pick up a puck on the wall. You got to understand how to control your body.
You got to understand how to protect the puck. You got to understand how to get the pucks to the net. You got to understand how to go to the net, give a target, you know, bang home rebounds, be aware of what's going on around the net, box guys out, like all that stuff.
And the more you can put kids in those competitive environments and they take those lickings in practice and they take those slashes and those sticks and those pucks in the shins and pucks of the feet, the more they're like, it's not that bad. And they're willing to do it. So can we, can we harness that?
Can we enhance that? Can we, you know, embrace that for sure. I think creating practice environments where kids have to do it or are forced to do it, then hopefully we create more players that are willing to do those, those harder things, you know.
[Jason Jacobs] (55:39 - 55:54)
Some of these things, it seems like there's debate around, you know, how much is innate and how much can be taught. Are there things that you think can be taught that are falling through the cracks and, and largely not getting taught today? And if so, which things?
[Dwayne Blais] (55:54 - 58:31)
I think one thing that's come up like a bunch in the last bunch of years is like scanning the ice and pre-scanning and stuff like that. And that's something that I've been on for, for years now is, but like, the more you pre-scan the game and that's like without the puck coming, let's say you're on a back check and you're just coming back on a back check and you pre-scan, you're looking around. The more you see how much space you have, how much time you have, number one, you see where your outs are, you see where defenders are.
I think it slows the game down for players, but it's a really, really hard skill because you'll watch, even watch NHL games right now. If you go out tonight and watch highlights or whatever, you'll see players coming back, just staring at the puck in the play and never look around them. You know what I mean?
So just getting players more adapt to scanning, pre-scanning, things like that, I think is huge. I think that's one part of the game that as minor hockey coaches, we can teach the players way more and get them as the part of their habits. When they're coming back on a back check, they're just looking around.
So now they know that puck gets wrung around the ice. I know when I go there, I know that D's not pinching, right? Or I know that D's pinching, so now I got to box him out, try to make a play on the wall and kick it out or whatever I got to do with it.
So I think that's one big thing, but I think there's a lot of little things like that in the game that we can help our young kids understand and get better at, that'll help them, obviously, as they get to more elite levels. You know what I mean? And another one that's super simple and involves zero skills, communication, just calling for pucks, talking to each other on the ice.
The games got quieter and quieter over the years, which is crazy, but even in minor hockey, a lot of the kids don't talk. They're literally wide open in the middle of the ice, and they don't call for the puck. So just having our kids communicate a little bit more, so you talk about scanning, pre-scanning and communication, there's your breakout right there.
You know what I mean? There's your entry right there. It just makes the game so much easier.
So there's a lot of little things that we can help these kids, and that comes back to probably ties in with your hockey IQ part of it as far as making the game easier. Like if I'm talking to a guy who's not very smart on the ice and tell him I'm wide open, all of a sudden he gets a puck on the wall and just kicks it to the middle and I score, he looks like a genius, but it's just because I talked and I told him I was open in the middle of the ice and he gave it to me and I scored, right? Those are all things that kind of tie back into that whole nuance of hockey as far as those little habits that the players can get that'll help them obviously from now, like minor hockey, all the way through to the next level.
[Jason Jacobs] (58:32 - 59:29)
It seems like there's all these little tricks. Even though I played hockey a bunch growing up, I feel like in many ways I'm learning the game for the first time today. So I'm much more of a student of it than a master, to be clear.
But like deception, for example, using deception, whether it's deception with your feet, deception with your hands, deception with the stick, deception with your head, right? There's stuff like how to handle the puck on the wall and using the boards as your friend, things like that. And I would suspect that a lot of that got learned growing up through hours and hours and hours of shinny, like you, but the fact that most of these kids don't have access to hours and hours and hours of shinny, how much of that can be taught?
How important is it that it gets taught? And what are the best ways to teach it? It's like the long tail of all the little tricks.
[Dwayne Blais] (59:30 - 1:01:48)
Yeah, honestly, though, even looking at the NHL guys, you're looking at the top of the, let's say, top of the spear, right? There's guys, even in the NHL right now, that I'm still working on wall work and how to pick it up with your stick. Because let's say you're going in the boards, puck gets, you know, rimmed around the ice.
A lot of times players want to pick it up with their feet. Well, are you faster picking up with your feet on a flat puck coming around or are you faster picking up with your stick? Way faster with your stick and now you can make a play with it.
Whereas you go over with your feet, now you're stuck with your feet. Now you've got to get it to your stick. It's an extra step, right?
So even like, even to this day, I'm still working with guys on like stick positioning, how to pop it off the wall, how to get it to a spot where you can make a play. And every rim is going to be a little bit different, whether it's spinning a lot, whether it's, you know, bouncing, rolling, whatever. So I think like a lot of that stuff, like if you gave me a player right now at 13 years old on rims, let's just say just rims, in 10 minutes I could have him picking up rims on his forehand and backhand.
No problem. Smooth. Now I want him to rep it like continuously for the next months, like to get better and better.
Because even guys that are really, really good at it on our team, rep it all the time. Like that's something, like that's like taking a piano lesson. And how do you start every piano lesson?
You go through your, you know, you go through your chords, you go through your notes, you go through your scales, right? Same thing in hockey. Like that should be one of the fundamental things, stick handling, skating, you know, and then as you get better and older, it's rims, like picking up pucks off the wall, just boom, boom.
And just repping it, repping it, repping it. So you can teach it. It's not hard.
It's just knowing the proper technique on how to do it. And then, you know, look, but for coaches too that are trying to teach this to their kids, like look it up, look up the proper technique on how to pick up a rim. Don't just try to like ad lib what you did in men's league hockey, because that's not going to translate for, you know what I mean?
For them being an elite player at 13, 14 playing triple A, like they got to know how to pick these up, right? So I think just repping that stuff and like knowing how to teach it is huge. But, you know, yeah, there's stuff that we work on all the time that are very, very fundamental that are a huge impact in the game.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:01:49 - 1:02:51)
I mean, at the NHL level, I get that there can be a coaching staff and on that coaching staff, you can have people that are specific to skills and within that be teaching all these little skills like we've been talking about. I mean, it sounds, and tell me if you disagree, but that teaching these skills is something that could be done at a much younger age. And I guess my question is that, one, it seems like a lot of coaches don't know how to teach it.
Two, they don't necessarily have the time to learn. They might be volunteer coaches, you know, dad or mom coaches, full-time jobs, maybe multiple kids at play, coaching multiple teams, right? But then also they have like two 50 minute sheets and maybe they're even half ice and they got 15 kids on the ice plus some goalies or whatever.
And it's like, they don't even know like where to stand on a breakout. Like, you think I'm going to be able to like work with each kid on like all the little long tail nuances to make the game better? Like, no way.
Like, I don't have the time. So I guess my question is, what is a realistic way for more kids coming up to get access to this kind of teaching and whose job is it?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:02:52 - 1:05:08)
Yeah, no, you bring up a great point. Like it's tough in minor hockey because you're stuck on ice times. You're stuck on coaching, you know, resources for sure.
Can you implement this stuff in your practices? For sure you can. And again, if you know how and you have the resources to be able to do it, whether it's looking online or wherever it is, teach it and be able to do it.
But it is a big ask sometimes for minor hockey coaches to be able to teach these kids all this stuff, you know, definitely. So I think for parents, it's trying to look at other programs or other places that might be able to teach or might be able to like help. You know what I mean?
And again, that's a big ask on parents because now you're going, you know, from hockey or you're going to a private lesson or a skill session to a hockey practice or now you've got five days a week you're tied up. Like it's a lot, you know? So there's no perfect answer to this at all.
I think the biggest thing is, you know, it comes back to, you know, how much time and how much resources you want to invest in the sport. And depending on your player, if your player's a solid, a really, really good player that wants to get better, that wants to do stuff, then I think it, you know, maybe you do invest a little more resources in it, but there's no perfect answer to that. Like, that's a tough one.
You know, if I'm a coach of a minor hockey team, do I spend time on breakouts or do I spend time on picking up rims and making passes? I spend time on picking up rims and making passes because the breakout part is fine, but if I can't pick up a rim and make a pass, I can't break out anyway. So let's work on that part first and then let's go to the other part, you know?
So I may have a bit of a different approach than some of the coaches because I look a lot of, like, let's say a power play, for instance, on a 10-year-old team. Like, parents are like, oh, we got to work on our power play. Like, we can't make three passes in a row.
So we can't run a power play anyway because we can't make three passes in a row. So let's work on making passes first before we work on, you know what I mean? So that's like kind of gradually building into that power play practice, let's call it, right?
So I think it's really important to see where your team's at and then work on what that team needs in that time period and then go from there, you know?
[Jason Jacobs] (1:05:09 - 1:06:46)
Yeah, I mean, there's different ways to address the problem from my seat. I mean, one, there's kind of a coach-to-coach path or train-the-trainers or whatever where you get more coaches to understand how to teach this way and that might be a way to raise the skill level in the game and to have more of that translate, which would be good for players and families and good for the game, right? Like scaling the high-end player development guy or girl model where you look at the, you know, what the D1 or the juniors or the NHL players are getting working with someone like you, right?
And it's like, how do you scale that in a way that isn't so human intensive and is there a way to do it, right? And I guess the last one is for some of the coaches that maybe do know how to do it but don't have the time in their two 50-minute practices a week or whatever, like what can be done off the ice, in between sessions, whether it be dry land, whether it be video, whether it be playing NHL, you know, on Xbox or something. But I mean, maybe react to each of those or if you have any other ideas of just like how we might, because like I look at what's in your head, for example, and it's like, I want my kid to have that and any parent listening or kid who's serious about the game will be like, I want access to that.
But if you look percentage-wise at the kids who want it and the kids who get it, I think there's a huge discrepancy, right? Like a lot, a lot more, like the vast majority, like a ton of kids want it and out of those kids, I bet it's single digit percentages that actually get it, right? And so how do you raise that percentage and what are the ways to do it?
It doesn't necessarily need to be a commercial way, but I mean, it might be, right? But just like, how do we do it as a sport?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:06:47 - 1:10:10)
If I'm coaching like a minor hockey team and all my kids get better, I think the biggest thing is, to your point, like we're going to have two 50-minute sheets or two hour and a half sheets or wherever it is. So that's fine, but not a ton. And it might split ice with other teams.
So can our kids on those other days off, can they spend, you know, on a sheet or whatever, on a, whatever, Excel sheet, doesn't matter that you share, but like, hey, are you guys, can you guys spend 10 minutes on those off nights shooting pucks or stick handling? Or, you know, so you hold them accountable a little bit. They're going against their peers.
Some of the parents will put in their numbers bullshit and just, you know, kind of fill it in for Johnny, but a lot of those kids will do it. And you're holding them. Now, mom and dad are like, hey, did you shoot your pucks today?
Like coach wants you to shoot pucks today. And that's what I found even with my own kids is like, I'm not telling you to run a mile today. This is from your coach.
Like, I want you to run a mile. Like as a parent, I want you to run a mile, but your coach is telling you to do it. So if you don't want to do it, that's fine.
But, and that held them a little bit more accountable to it. So even just, and honestly, like you've seen a Jace, like just stick handling in the garage, stick handling, like waiting for your boss, just working on your, like it does translate, man. I've had NHL guys work on stick handling in their garage and it felt way better on the ice.
Like, you know, and their hands have gotten better. Like, you know, and that's at that. So think of a 10, 12, 13, 14 year old that just spends time in their garage, just stick handling and working on patterns, not just like chopping tomatoes, but just working on patterns of fake up back.
And I think when you're working on stick handling, not working on chopping vegetables, but just working on like patterns. Cause if you look at the NHL right now, let's say the best, you know, the best league in the world, how many times are guys like toe dragging guys and making sick plays? Or how many times are guys like faking, pulling back shooting?
Like, that's a great move. And just work on that. Fake pullback shot, fake pullback shot.
Like that's something you're going to use way more than fake toe drag to the backhand, back to the forehand. But like, that's not going to happen. Like you're never going to get that chance.
Like working on like little sequences that you're going to work on that could happen in a game. It could be getting a backhand pass. You starting your backhand, pull up your forehand shot, backhand forehand shot, backhand forehand shot.
That's going to happen in the game. You know what I mean? So like working on things, you know, I call them little sequences that you're going to see in a game, you know, rather than working on all this crazy stuff that you're never going to use in a game.
Just, let's just work on these three little moves that's going to allow you to get a shot through a stick. It's going to allow you to get a shot through a shin pad or around a player or you know what I mean? So I think dumbing it down for coaches and be like, hey, I just want you to work on these three moves for the next week.
And then these three moves for the next week. You know what I mean? And you can keep adding on to it.
But I think something like that for coaches where the kids do have a little bit of accountability, they have to do stuff away from the ring. Because if you're going to be a good player, whether you're playing A, double A, whatever it is, and you want to really, you know, make that double A team or you want to make that triple A team, well, how are you going to separate yourself? Well, it's this kind of stuff.
It's working on stuff at home a little bit. It's, you know, and if coaches can help motivate them a little bit and keep them accountable a little bit for it, that'd be, that'd be huge.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:10:11 - 1:11:10)
You know? It seems like there's almost like, I don't know if they're conflicting or complimentary, but there's some people that are out there talking about how the best way to grow the, like the best way to produce more stars, right, is just to grow the funnel and keep them loving the sport. And if more and more of the best athletes choose hockey and stick with hockey, then more top players are going to come out the other side, right?
So it's almost like a funnel strategy, right? Like a top of the funnel strategy. And then there's other people that just talk about how, like, most coaches don't know how to coach, and we need to teach them better how to coach, and they're not teaching IQ, and they're not teaching how to think the game, and they're not teaching systems and breakouts and moving without the puck and whatever.
And if we arm them with the skills, right, then it will shepherd people through the funnel, right, at a more effective rate and help them get further and spread their wings. I mean, is there one of those that resonates to you more than the other, or is it really a, is it a both and?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:11:11 - 1:13:51)
There's a big barrier to entry for hockey because it costs a lot of money. So you might have some unbelievable athletes that choose basketball, baseball, lacrosse, whatever, because they can't really afford hockey. It's too much, and that's unfortunate because we're going to lose some of these, like, potentially unreal hockey players at five, six, seven, eight that just, you know, it's too much for their family, which I understand.
I think, and the one thing with the NSDA even was how can we help tool some of these coaches on how to teach fundamental skills to these players? So at the end of the day, who touches these players more than anybody? Number one is going to be the parents.
So how are the parents communicating to them? What are they, like, if you're trying to coach your son's team and you're telling little Johnny, like, you got to distribute the puck. Like, you got a two-on-one and he's wide open back door and you're shooting high and wide all the time, you got to make that pass.
But then Johnny goes home in the car, he's like, great shot, I just missed. You got to keep shooting that puck, you know, don't pass. Like, Albert can't pick that puck up anyway.
Like, then you're in a battle, right? And that happens all the time, right? So at the same time, like, how can you better equip these coaches to help coach these kids?
You know, and that's the biggest thing that I think is all these coaches we have, you know, probably thousands, hundreds of thousands of coaches that we have across America, Canada, or whatever, some of them aren't equipped to coach. Like, they don't even, you know, they're a dad, like you said earlier, like, they're dad, they got a daughter in dance, they got a son playing lacrosse, and they're running a hockey practice, don't have a practice plan, just, hey, we're going to do the J drill and a two-on-one drill, and then we'll scrimmage. Like, that's your practice on a Monday.
Like, what a waste of time, you know? So how do we better equip these coaches? Because they're going to have the best hands on these players, you know?
And it sounds like an impossible task, which it kind of is, but, you know, can we help these coaches help these players? And the more we can help the coaches, the more the coaches help the players, the more, you know, we can help develop these players, but, you know, is there a perfect way of doing it? No.
Is there, you know, and that's kind of based on associations and who the coach mentor is and how they're delivering the product and how they're delivering, like, their messaging, but it's, yeah, it's tough. But I think, I think at the end of the day, like, the coaches have the biggest impact on these players, from six years old, seven years old, eight years old, nine years old, all the way out. And we've all had our kids in seasons where it's been like, we just spun our tires.
It was a waste of a year, you know, and that's, that sucks.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:13:51 - 1:14:19)
So one is just around, and it's funny, we've made it like an hour and 15 minutes and we haven't talked at all about the Red Wings, which is interesting because, I mean, that's your day job, but, but, which so we probably should at some point, but, but before we do, I'm curious to talk to you about tech and analytics and what role that plays that's playing for you, if any, and, and how you think about kind of the evolving landscape as it relates to, call it the eye test versus Billy Bean.
[Dwayne Blais] (1:14:21 - 1:16:54)
Analytics is a big, big part of the game, obviously, especially the high levels, like, at all levels, probably, not so much minor hockey, but, you know, as you get into college and pro and stuff like that. I think, I think it does say something, you know, if you have a player that's generating offense and doing stuff and shows up analytically, that's like, wow, that's, that's great. But also, I think a lot of hockey is still the old school eye test.
Like, you know, when a player is playing hard, you know, when a player is battling, you know, when a player shies away from a hit, you know? So I think that resonates more than the analytics, but I think the analytics do show like, wow, these two D are our best to shut down D or these, this forward generates the most offense on our team, you know? But this forward that generates the most offense also shies away from every hit on the eye test because that's not going to show up analytically.
Like, there's no analytics saying that he jumped away from checks or he like, he pulled up on a check, right? So I think it's a combination of both and you got to really like, as a coach, you know, at higher levels, you got to really be able to see the game and understand the game, obviously, but then also like, see your players and understand your players individually. So your analytics may be off the charts for a player, but he's soft and he never goes to the net and he's, you know, he's always sitting in the corner so he gets to assist a game, but he's always in the corner because when a rebound goes out, it gets to him, then he gives it the point, points, shoots, they score, you know, whatever.
You got to still see the game, you know what I mean? If you look at just, if you base all your decisions on just analytics, it might work like money ball, like it may work, but I don't know if it's sustainable. I think you need, I think, especially with hockey, it's so, it's so emotional, it's so physical, you need more than just analytics, you know?
Like, you know what I mean? You just, you know, guy leads your team in hits, that's fine, but he's not even our toughest guy or our biggest hitter. He just ended up registering four hits tonight, you know?
Like that's not indicative of what the game was like. This guy played way harder and he only had two hits, this guy had six hits, but he was way harder, way harder, you know what I mean? So it's like, you got to, I think it does play a big, big part of the game, but I think you still got to like, the eye test, I think, is massive and even when scouts are going out to watch players, I think they're not looking so much at analytics, they're looking at eye tests when they're going to watch players.
So I think when players are playing and scouts are watching, when you get to that age of 15, 16, all the way up to 20, you got to play, man. You just got to be a player. Like, you got to do what you do well and just do it, you know?
[Jason Jacobs] (1:16:54 - 1:17:09)
And with your player or skills coach hat on with the Red Wings, how much of your job is players coming to you and saying, I want to work on this or I want to work on that versus you watching film, for example, and determining, here's what I think you need to work on?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:17:10 - 1:19:07)
It's a bit of both. Like, it's more of a conversation. Like, I would never, I shouldn't say I would never, but I would always have a conversation with the player first.
I'd have an objective that I want to cover with him, but I'd have the conversation first and get him to sway towards that, if that makes sense, you know what I mean? So I want, it's like me going to a player and saying like, hey, you got to work on your skating or hey, how do you think your skating is? I'm great.
I think I'm good. I'm above average. And then I'm me saying, I think you got to work on your skating.
They're not going to buy in. So you got to kind of, you got to kind of talk to him and be like, hey, how do you find your quick starts and stuff? Like, you know, when I saw this guy, you know, be out of the corner, like, yeah, I got to get better at that.
Okay, let's work on that. So now I can tweak it so I can massage it that it's coming from him a little bit. And I'm like, man, I, I'm not scoring right now.
I'm like, yeah, here, let's check these clips out. And like, look, you're, you know, you're getting crowded or you're not getting an open ice or you're overhandling the puck. So the deer getting sticks on it.
You got to, you know, when you're driving the zone, don't, don't stick out. Just get it sat and then fighter it. So it's, it's a bit of both for sure, but there's a lot of conversation with guys.
And yeah, like tonight, I just had a conversation with the player before the game should have some clips and some stuff and I'm just hanging on a pucks more and getting off the wall and moving his feet. And he went out tonight, played really, really well. And like, and then I'm getting a point tonight and like played, played really good.
But, and after the game, he's like, man, I felt, you know, not because of that conversation at all, but we kind of revisited what we talked about. I'm like, dude, you did exactly what we talked about. Like you got off the wall, you cut guys off, you added some little fakes in there.
Like it was really good. Like, and, you know, so it's, it's building rapport with the players and then, and then figuring out, you know, what type of player that player is and what he needs to work on or what he needs to do better to help his game improve. Right.
So, yeah.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:19:08 - 1:19:31)
So how much of that comes from watching film or watching them live in the games? And when you do watch film or watch them live in the games, how much do you need to see in order to have enough to make an assessment? And what tools are you using or what are you looking for in order to inform that assessment?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:19:33 - 1:21:46)
Depends on the player, but like honestly, I can look at, like I love watching games live, you know, to be honest with you. So, you know, being on the road with the Red Wings and stuff is great because I'm always at the home games, obviously, and then with them at practice and stuff. So I can see kind of everything that's going on.
With the way the season is this year, as condensed as it is, you know, we don't have a lot of practice time. We still practice, but it's not, you know, crazy intense. So games are great.
So watching them live for our group right now, I can tell right away what guys are lacking or needing or whatever, right? As far as individuals. If I'm looking at like a prospect or something like that, because the way my job goes is anybody that gets drafted by the Red Wings kind of falls, would fall into my plate.
So I could have players in Europe, I could have players playing in the CHL, I could have players playing in college and I'll watch games with them and then get on video like this with them and go through their clips, like two games usually. And within those two games, I can tell, within two or three games I can see like, and for the players playing college, junior, whatever it is, I'm looking at how does that game translate to the pro level? Like I don't care about how you play in college, that's great.
You know, you're a really good player in college, your coach is probably playing you 20-22 minutes, you're cheating, you're cheating off your defence, I get it, but are things translating that could translate to the pro level? You know what I mean? And within a game or two, I can, within like, you know, 10-15 shifts, I can tell like, okay, this player's got it or this player needs to work on this or this or whatever it is, you know what I mean?
So it happens pretty quick honestly, now that I've been doing it for a long time, you can see like, and it's all those fundamentals I talked about. It's like, are you finishing your hits? Are you tracking?
Are you skating? Are you, you know, are you able to hang on to pucks? Can you protect pucks?
You know, are you, if you're an offensive guy, are you taking pucks to the net? You know, if you're a player that's going to play net front, are you going to the net? Are you being a prick in front of the net?
Are you boxing out in front of the net? If you're a D man, are you getting good exits? Are you making good plays?
Are you, you know, so it's, you can pick it up pretty quick, but yeah, it doesn't take long to figure out if a player's kind of got it or doesn't have it, you know?
[Jason Jacobs] (1:21:47 - 1:22:02)
Is doing what you do an apprentice business and, or apprentice skillset and, and could you teach someone to do it or is the only way to do it just to go and live it and figure it out for yourself?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:22:03 - 1:23:38)
Yeah, probably. I think if you had like, and I guess, yeah, I mean, I've, you know, even in London, like, so in London, we had, I was doing it all by myself to start and then I had another gentleman join me, Scott Jones. He's now with Vegas.
He's Vegas' skills coach as a consultant, does it kind of part time, but he got into that because of me. I brought him to Washington with me when I was in Washington and he got into it that way and then Kevin Galarno is another guy who came on with me in, in London and now he's helping us out in GR in Detroit. So, you know, I think over the years, you learn how to teach well, you learn how to pick up stuff, you learn how to pick up good things, bad things and, you know, so yeah, I think being around the right people and, and getting the right instruction, I think that, yeah, I think you can teach the right people how to do it and do it well.
Like, we've been very fortunate. We've got, you know, out of, since I've been in London, we've got, you know, two guys working in the AHL with myself included and then we've got another guy in the AHL comes in for development camp. We've got another two guys coaching university hockey and helping out the university teams and these are all players, are guys that played and then now are kind of coming through.
yeah, I think being in the right environment and learning and, and it's definitely you can teach it. There's gonna be different levels like everything, right? As far as, you know, you're gonna have welders that are unbelievable welders and some are just good and they can put your stuff together but it might break after a year or two.
Who knows? But overall, it's been good.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:23:38 - 1:23:47)
How much have you been playing around with AI, if at all? Like you use like chat GPT or quad or any of those things. Have you tried talking to them, ask them questions like you would on Google?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:23:48 - 1:24:13)
No, I honestly haven't. Like aside from like Google popping up AI research that they, you know, that they randomly do but I haven't messed around with AI enough and I'm very intrigued by it. Probably a little bit intimidated by it, not in a bad way but just I don't even know where to start, you know what I mean?
So I haven't, I haven't gotten into it but it's something that, that I'm definitely, definitely interested in for sure.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:24:13 - 1:25:36)
Yeah, because one of the things I've been thinking about is like if I were to shadow you, for example, and like anytime you, you watch film, like get inside your brain, like what do you see? Like, and then like annotate the clip and annotate what you saw and then take a note next to the clip of what you saw and why, right? Then with enough reps, right?
Like a long tail of reps over a sustained amount of time of like, let's say thousands and thousands and thousands of shifts or tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands, right? Like if you did that and you had all that data and you fed it to the machine, look, I'm not technical at all, so I'm not, but, but like, but I see the way, for example, like chat GPT, I talk to it all the time and actually it remembers everything I've talked to it about and then it uses that context when it answers my question. So I'll ask it a question about Claire development and it'll say, or like I asked it a question today, like help me prepare for your podcast, right?
And it says, based on your style of X, Y and Z and how you like to, you know, use your show to accomplish these set of things, like here's some topics that might be interesting, giving everything I just scoured on the web to learn about you. So like, could you teach the machines to like think like you do, right? So that's, um, that's one, one thing I've been thinking about.
I got another thing, but I'm going to stop there because I want you to react to that.
[Dwayne Blais] (1:25:36 - 1:26:50)
Yeah, it's unbelievable. Like if, if that's, obviously that's where things are going for sure. I think that even assessing players, like knowing my, my aptitude to players, what I like about players, what I don't like about players.
And, you know, let's say that chat GBT followed me for 10,000 shifts of players random. They would have an idea of what I like, what I don't like. I like toughness.
I like players to have skill. I like, you know what I mean? It's a, so then they would adapt that way.
You know what I mean? And I think, I think it'd be unbelievable. I still think part of it's going to be a little bit of the eye test too.
You know what I mean? If I send them a player to let's say chat GBT watches player and tell me what you think, it might give me assessment of like this player's 99 out of 100 and I watch the player and I'm like, this player sucks, you know, like for whatever reason. Body language sucks or whatever it is, you know what I mean?
So again, it's another tool, right? This is all coming, this is all new, but it's coming fast and I'm open to tools like this that can help us maybe speed our job up or help us or help us assess players or whatever it is. I think it's kind of cool.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:26:50 - 1:27:30)
On a related topic, if you sat down with your son or daughter and you watched, call it a Red Wings game, call it a college game, call it a high school game, whatever, and you sat in the stands, maybe at center ice, you know, midway up so that you had like a good, you know, kind of bird's eye view of what was happening on the ice, and you talked them through the game and then you had the ability to pause it at key moments and ask them questions in a consultative way the way that you were describing asking your son in the car.
You weren't telling him like you played like you were asking questions in order to get him to get his brain around it, right? Is that an effective way to teach IQ and how to think the game?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:27:31 - 1:28:37)
For sure. Like even stopping, let's say, a two-on-one or a zone entry and be like, hey, what do you think is going to happen here? Or what are you seeing right here?
It's like anything. It's like going to school. It's like problem-solving.
What do you think is going to happen? It might not happen, that's fine, but what can you see happening? Or what do you think is going to happen here?
I think that's a great way. Now with technology, which is very basic, but you can watch a game with your kids and pause it and be like, hey, what do you see here? Or on this goal, even just all the goals, just play them back and pause them and be like, hey, what happened here?
Why did this goal get scored? Well, the D didn't box this guy out, or the D didn't take a stick in front of the net and the guy got a tip, or the forward didn't go out and block this shot, or the forward missed this pass and didn't have a stick in the lane. I think all that stuff helps players understand that when they're in that position, not that they're going to remember it, but hopefully over time they'll adjust a little bit and be better in those situations.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:28:38 - 1:29:30)
Another thing I've been thinking about is imagine an app that would show you a clip, stop it, ask those questions, enable you to engage with it, and then teach you, essentially, almost like model the way you would teach your son or daughter in the stands and turn it into an automated experience, like a game, where you could get a score, progress through levels, see how you're doing against your teammates, see how you're doing against other people like you, and if you do it enough, similar to how, if you take a standardized test, it's almost like the better you do, the harder the questions you get. It could start mapping out, oh, this person is weaker in this area, so I'm going to focus more on that area. I'm going to do less over there, because they're solid, right?
And round out their IQ, where maybe with enough reps and enough scale, your score comes to mean something to coaches and scouts.
[Dwayne Blais] (1:29:30 - 1:29:46)
No, totally. Now with the kids with games and phones and iPads and stuff, everything's about scores, everything's about, yeah, all that kind of stuff. So I think anything like that would be kind of cool for kids to help them learn the game for sure.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:29:46 - 1:30:02)
Last question on that topic is, if you actually want to teach IQ effectively, can you do it in this kind of format, whether it's human or machine, just digitally in lean back mode, or do you have to get people on the ice in order to actually have anything sink in?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:30:03 - 1:31:22)
No, I think, I mean, we go through video at the NHL level daily, you know what I mean, with players individually or with the team or special teams or wherever it is. So I think seeing it as a player, whether it's your individual shift or a scenario, I think is good. I think you'll learn from that.
And then, you know, the idea is that being able to implement that on the ice, you know what I mean? So does it have to be directly translated right away? No.
I think when kids develop a little bit of hockey IQ just by watching clips, like that, where it's not just watching a clip and seeing a goal and being like, oh, that's cool, but now it's like, you gotta answer questions, you gotta see it, you gotta maybe watch it again and see what happens, like, I think that would go further than just watching highlight clips. And then, if there's a way to implement that on the ice after, it would be huge. Now, that could be with coaches, that could be with practice, that could be with a skill coach, whatever, but yeah, I think that alone would, the fact that you're stopping it, having them think about it, having them answer questions, getting it wrong, having to do it again, let's say, you know what I mean, like, however that played out, I think would be more impactful for sure.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:31:22 - 1:32:06)
Yeah, when I talked to ChatGPT, for example, it's starting to tell me, because I ask it, like, hey, if I wanted to do, to teach this kind of thing in hockey, what are some comps of other areas I should go study, so it's pointing me to other sports like football or soccer, for example, the same thing, like soccer or UK football, but it's also pointing me to stuff I wouldn't have thought about, like esports, like chess, like pilot training, like military simulations, right, so one of the things I'm going to do as part of my expedition is not just dig deeper with smart hockey minds like you, but actually go and study how stuff like this gets taught in other areas and what can you bring back to the sport.
[Dwayne Blais] (1:32:07 - 1:32:10)
Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm excited about it.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:32:10 - 1:32:16)
I'm early, but I'm excited about that kind of additional leg of the expedition, if you will.
[Dwayne Blais] (1:32:16 - 1:32:18)
Yeah, that's cool. That's really cool.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:32:18 - 1:33:54)
Yeah, so the last topic for you is I had a college coach on recently, and he was talking about, well, I've done a bunch of actually relevant episodes to this topic, and it's all the changes that are happening in the development path, right, the portal, the Canadian major juniors, NIL, right, and all the lawsuits that are changing all the rules kind of underneath our feet, and I say are as if I'm in the business.
I'm just a dad here with the show, so I'm not in the business, at least not yet. So there's been a theme, like the USA hockey, you know, approach is like, oh, man, it's a harder road for our players, and we need to step up our efforts, right? College Hockey Inc., people are like, this is great for the NCAA, right, because, like, now, like, we have a bigger pool to pull from, and we're going to get the best players from wherever they are, so, like, these great players don't need to be off limits anymore, right?
From a coach's perspective in college, or at least, you know, this one guy hasn't shipped yet, but he was saying, like, it's not that I don't like the rules, it's that I don't like that the rules keep changing under my feet, because I keep getting thrashed, and so that was kind of one complaint, and another complaint was, it's just gotten really transactional, it's transactional for players and families, it's transactional for coaches, it's more about recruiting than it is about development, right? And it's also just like, you know, selfishly, you know, as like a New England college, it's a harder road for the local kids, right?
So that's just some context. My question for you, given that you're with an NHL team, is what are you seeing from that perspective, as it relates to those topics?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:33:54 - 1:34:02)
It's interesting, because at the NHL level, it doesn't really matter, because we're going to get these kids drafted, you know, honestly, like...
[Jason Jacobs] (1:34:02 - 1:34:05)
Yeah, as long as you get them, who cares the path, right?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:34:05 - 1:36:42)
No, but yeah, like, so I shouldn't say it doesn't really matter, it just, it gives the NHL teams now more of a broader pathway for these kids, right? So if you have a kid who's a really good player at 18, let's say, and he wants to go to college, you'd be like, no, stay in major junior because you're going to play 72 games, and it's a longer season. Because the two, like, NCAA and CHL is way different.
Like, CHL is more modeled after the NHL. They play 70 whatever games, they have playoffs, they have a Memorial Cup. Like, college, you play 40 games.
Like, we have kids in our system right now that their season's done right now. Like, they've already played 40 games, they're done. They've got to play another 30.
You know what I mean? Some of them are gassing out. They're going to dip a bit, they'll be fine.
So, development model-wise, it just depends, right? For the players themselves, I think it's great. I think it's going to take a year or two to figure out how to navigate this whole thing with all these players.
Right now everyone's jumping everywhere. I think it'll settle down a little bit where now you know high-end draft pick in the third round is going to go play in the CHL for a year or two and then go to North Dakota or Michigan or whatever. You know what I mean?
They're going to have scholarships locked up. They're going to play in the CHL for a year or two and then go. It's really interesting.
As far as the money at the end of the day, let's be honest, the whole thing is a bit of a mess. The NCAA is the juggernaut where they for whatever reason decided to do this, which is crazy whether they got pushed or whatever happened. Now that it's open, I think it's going to give some of these younger players coming up in the next two or three years some options to play.
You know what I mean? Some different options to be able to play and pursue their careers. You get a kid playing in the CHL until they're 19, 20, go to a school, get an education and then go play pro, it's great.
You're going to have some kids that are going to go one and done. They're going to go to CHL for a year, college for a year and then pro. That's not going to change but I think the whole landscape is very interesting right now.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:36:43 - 1:36:51)
If you had one wish for the game or one change you could make that would be what would it be and why?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:36:52 - 1:38:47)
Most impactful change for the game. I think honestly I would go back to minor hockey, I would go back to minor hockey parents and say I would tell them just relax and honestly just create good people, create good kids. Worry about your kid being a good, say please, thank you, open doors.
I'm not talking crazy good people, I'm just being like be a good person. We just, there was an incident at a rink just the other day, nothing bad or anything but three or four kids on my daughter's team went and got something for free from somebody and one person said thank you to this person for giving them something for free. That to me is a big thing.
That is bigger than them scoring a goal in the game. I don't care if you win or lose, just play hard. But just be good people.
So for parents, don't worry if both your kids' skates are sharpened and both their blades are in their bags and they got three new sticks. Just worry about them saying hey mom, dad, thanks for getting those sticks for me. That goes way further for me and I'm hard on my kids about this.
It's just creaking people and we see it now at the NHL level. These young prospects that come in, we have a couple of kids that have come in this year even that are unbelievable humans, unreal humans and they are good players and they're playing really well and they're young but they're good parents, good people and we have some kids that are not even here, just all over that just they expect everything. They've arrived and they want everything and everything should be given for free.
It's just creaking people man. Just don't even worry about skill at all. Don't worry about anything.
Just create good kids. Be a good parent, create good kids.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:38:47 - 1:38:58)
As we're getting ready to wrap up here, where do you want to be personally in 10 years? What do you want to be doing? 10 years, oh geez.
We're around the same age so you'll be kind of getting up there.
[Dwayne Blais] (1:38:58 - 1:39:46)
Yeah, I don't know man. I honestly really enjoy what I do. I feel like I'm still 21 so I could probably still do this for a little bit longer but I don't know.
I really enjoy what I'm doing. I don't know, it depends. Once my kids get older and get out, maybe I'll look at maybe getting back into coaching or I don't know.
But as of right now, the development side, I really enjoy meeting these kids at young ages and trying to help them through college, Europe, wherever they are and get them to the AHL and hopefully the NHL. I've honestly really enjoyed what I'm doing so 10 years from now I just hope I'm still bald and beautiful. That's it.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:39:46 - 1:39:52)
Is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did or any parting words for listeners?
[Dwayne Blais] (1:39:52 - 1:41:05)
No, I'm not going The game of hockey is awesome. It's given me a ton. Obviously, being able to work in the NHL is unbelievable.
I would have never thought that when I was growing up at 9 and 10 and starting to play hockey. So I think for all these parents, if your kids are saying I want to play in the NHL, it's a stretch for any kid. It doesn't matter how good or bad they are right now.
There's tons of avenues to get to the NHL. I've been fortunate to be working in the NHL for a number of years now. There's what I do.
There's coaching, there's refereeing, there's a lot of stuff. Feed the fire, man, if your son or daughter loves it. Now with the PWHL, which is super cool for these young girls that are coming up now and want to play.
Even my daughters mentioned maybe it would be cool to play in the PWHL. 100%. I was that kid saying I was going to play in the NHL.
No chance to play in the NHL. Who knows? Feed the fire and just create good humans and people.
[Jason Jacobs] (1:41:07 - 1:42:15)
Feed the fire. It's not a surprise that you're saying that. It's one of the reasons I was excited to do this episode.
It's such a rational down-to-earth perspective. It's off the deep end all around. One of the reasons I'm not rushing to build is I have to check myself as anyone who is around me as a I'm pretty invested in it.
I want to get the balance right. I don't want to have regrets. I don't want to rush to build a platform and realize five or ten years later I was part of the problem.
It's helpful to have discussions like this. I'm so appreciative of it. It's great.
Thanks for having me. It's great. It's really good.
Awesome. All right, buddy. Thanks for listening to puck academy.
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