Host Jason Jacobs interviews Mike Jamieson, a former professional hockey player and current VP of Sales at 49ing, a sports data and analytics company specializing in ice hockey. Mike discusses his upbringing in Billerica, Massachusetts, his hockey journey, and the evolving landscape of the sport. The conversation touches on various aspects of player development, the influence of analytics, and the balance between innate talent and hard work. Mike also shares insights about the role of technology in modern hockey and its impact on coaching and player development.
In-Depth with Mike Jamieson: From College Hockey to Player Development and AI Analytics
Host Jason Jacobs sits down with Mike Jamieson to discuss his journey from growing up in Billerica, Massachusetts, to playing college hockey at Northeastern, and eventually playing professionally in Germany. Mike shares insights from his experiences as a Director of Hockey Operations and his current role at 49 ing, a sport data and analytics company. They explore various aspects of player development, the role of analytics in hockey, and the balance between nurturing talent and raw determination. Mike also provides advice for young athletes and their families navigating today's increasingly competitive landscape. 00:00 Introduction to the Show 00:35 Guest Introduction: Mike Jamieson 02:18 Mike's Early Life and Hockey Beginnings 05:03 College Hockey Experience at Northeastern 10:44 Professional Hockey Journey in Germany 13:09 Transition to Coaching and Hockey Operations 15:42 Advice for Aspiring Hockey Players 22:11 Role of Director of Hockey Operations 29:46 Betting on Talent and Drive 31:31 Parental Influence on Success 34:00 Personal Reflections and Coaching Philosophy 36:00 Introduction to 49-ing 40:12 The Role of Technology in Hockey 51:03 Future of AI in Player Development 58:08 Final Thoughts and Reflections
Mike Jamieson
[00:00:00]
Jason Jacobs: welcome to the next next. I'm the host, Jason Jacobs. This show sorts through the nuances of athlete development, through the lenses of a dad who's sorting through those nuances with my own kids, but also of an entrepreneur who's in the early stages of building a new kind of player development company, starting in hockey.
Shows our interview style and I bring on a wide range of guests, follow my intellectual curiosity, ask a lot of questions, and try to sort through those nuances myself while helping other players and families who are trying to sort through those nuances do the same. Today's guest is Mike Jamieson. Mike grew up in Billerica, Massachusetts, played his college hockey at Northeastern.
He played 72 games. There was a two time hockey East. All academic team. He played several years, uh, professionally in Germany. He went on to be the director of hockey operations at Northeastern, and now he's VP of sales at 49 ing. Which is a sport data and analytics [00:01:00] company dedicated to ice hockey that's been making waves in the hockey world, selling into coaches and teams at all levels of the game.
We have a great discussion in this episode about Mike's journey in the sport, , his ambitions growing up, what his development path looked like, his thoughts on the state of the game today. His thoughts on where things are heading and his advice to other players and families trying to figure all this stuff out.
Mike, welcome to the show.
Mike Jamieson: Yeah. Thanks for having me, Jason. Excited. So
Jason Jacobs: Your first podcast, I'm told.
Mike Jamieson: Yeah, first podcast experience
Jason Jacobs: well, well, I'll be gentle. But no, I'm not,
yeah, no, I'm, I'm really psyched. F for you to come on. I mean, fellow Massachusetts hockey guy. You know, I, I read a bit and it sounds like you grew up in Billerica and played in prep here in New England and and played at Northeastern, which is amazing, those bean pot experiences.
And spent some time in the pros, [00:02:00] hockey ops and now 49 ing. And gosh, any one of those I feel like we could spend a whole episode talking about. I've been trying to pin you down for a while, and I'm just really grateful for you making the time to come on the show and share your story.
Mike Jamieson: Yeah. Cool. No, I, I appreciate you out and I'm happy we finally found a time to do it. But yeah, I grew up in, in Ricca. It's a great, great town just north of Boston. And,
Jason Jacobs: Something in the water. It's like a, that's a sports town I feel
Mike Jamieson: It's a sports town. It was it was an awesome, awesome upbringing. There and playing always just outside playing sports.
I think that's where it all began with my, my brother and sister and my parents were rock stars and but yeah, just always outside. It's a sports town playing Woo. Football, basketball, street hockey. Obviously hockey kind of was the one that ended up taking over in the end, but was just always, you know, whether it was at recess at school or after school, just always up to something and stayed outta trouble and just always kind of played sports.
But Bill Rica kind of gets [00:03:00] a kind of funny reputation where it's like a blue collar town. Everyone's everyone from the town is either like a, like a builder or an electrician or a, a truck driver. My dad's an electrician, but I take a lot of pride in it. The people there are blue collar, hardworking people and they love their sports.
So very proud to be from Bill rca.
Jason Jacobs: Where, where Mike? Where were you in the packing order? Just in terms of age? Was it your siblings? I always ask 'cause I'm, I, I'm, I, I have my theories about you know, about, about siblings and pecking order when it comes to athletics that so.
Mike Jamieson: yeah, my older brother John was I mean, he really deserves a lot of the credit. He's five years older and a very good athlete. And he'll, he'll take, he'll, he will take a lot of the credit too. He'll remind you that he was kind of the coach and the, the, leader of it all. But he was, we, you know, I really looked up to him and and, and kind of followed in his path with, you know, playing hockey and kind of doing all the above.
But he was he was kind of the ringleader for my, my sister and I, and, uh, he played, he played hockey he played hockey at Merrimack, so he was a college hockey [00:04:00] player himself. And, and, I, I looked up to him quite a bit, wanted to play in Hockey East. I went to all of his games. And my younger sister, Abby, I'd be remiss not to mention her.
So we're 11 months. I'm 11 months older. Irish twins. She's a, she was a superstar athlete. A lot of people will say she was the best athlete. Um, nobody ever mentions me in that, in that topic, but she was a hockey player.
Jason Jacobs: I know you only played at Northeastern. You're a real slouch
Mike Jamieson: Yeah, she, she played actually she had a lot of college opportunities to play, um, hockey in college, but she took a, a scholarship and played at UMass Lowell and played and played college softball.
So she, and she was an All American actually, so she was my brother and I can't say that about ourselves. We played pretty high level with, don't look up our stats, but we were good, really good teammates. Took a lot of
Jason Jacobs: Glue guy. Glue guy, right?
Mike Jamieson: yeah, blew good eyes and both were on really good teams.
John's teams were really good at Merrimack, and my teams were really good at Northeastern, so that's maybe why we didn't play as much as we should have. 'cause our, our teams were so good. That's an excuse, I guess, but No, it was [00:05:00] awesome. So it was awesome.
Jason Jacobs: I'm, I'm curious about that. In, in, in, if you had it to do over again, would you rather follow the same path where you play in the most prestigious place and don't play as much, or have you thought about if, what life would've been like if you went to maybe a lesser school and played a bigger role?
Mike Jamieson: Regret. Unbelievable. Going back. No regret at all. Some of my best friends for life, you know, this summer went to a, just, just got back from a wedding in Sweden. My former teammate was a best man and another of my college roommates wedding last summer. So, at that stuff, like no regrets going to going to a, a Boston school and playing in the bean pod.
It was it was incredible. But yeah, I definitely, I think it's a, it's a good message for, you know, younger kids. I was chasing division one. So hard. I worked so hard at it. I saw myself as a division one player, but it's, it's tough, you know, once I got to [00:06:00] that level, you know, there's NHL draft picks.
There's guys that are, that are very good and you know, not that I wasn't prepared and not that I didn't feel like I didn't, that I, that I fit there, but there was a lot of division three interest as well. But I, I was really receptive to that. You know, I went on campus visits with a number of the top local division three programs and, and really made, made sure that I wasn't putting all my eggs in one basket.
But yeah, I think if I had went to one of those schools, maybe there would've been more, probably more playing opportunity and, and things would've been different. But again, no regrets from what I experienced at Northeastern was, was incredible. I taught 20 program in the country and, and got to play against some of the best, some of the best in the country.
And, and had an, had an incredible experience, got a great education, but. A message out there. And I, I talk to a lot of younger kids now, if I'm coaching or at a camp it's, and it's only gonna get harder with the, with the, the trickle down effect, which I think is real from the CHL. Right. But there's a lot, a lot of really, really good Division three and even club hockey programs out [00:07:00] there. And, and maybe kids are glued to the, like myself I wanna play in Hockey East. I have to play division one. But looking back, I, I was, I was open to it. I ended up going to Northeastern, but I, I definitely think about what it would, how it would've been different, but no, no regrets.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, it's, it's interesting and it, I mean, even it starts much younger than than college, right? If you look at like the club. Landscape. There's, I mean, you could make two different arguments. I'll just argue it both ways, right? The, the first way is, oh, you want your kid to play on the highest level that they can, because if they can, they're gonna be challenged.
It will be self-reinforcing. They'll have to rise up. It will open up all these opportunities that they wouldn't otherwise have access to get 'em on the highest team you can. And then the other side is you hear, I mean, all kinds of talking heads on these podcasts. Say you know, go somewhere where you can play, go somewhere where you'll have your puck on your stick the most.
Right? And, and those are like directly contradictory, I feel like. So how, how do you reconcile those two and where do you come out on that? It like, [00:08:00] if, and, and, and I, and one, one answer is every case is different as well. Hmm.
Mike Jamieson: Yeah I won't name names. I went on a lot of different visits with division three and even division one, and. You can just tell, like you can tell, you know where you're wanted and you gotta listen and you do wanna listen to the opportunity and you know, they, they won't try to like over promise, right?
And say you're gonna get, you know, X, Y, and Z. But I kind of knew what my role was gonna be at Northeastern and just you know, did I wish I had played more? Yeah, obvi, like of course I still have jokes with the coaching staff there and but I made the most of it. And, you know, we won championships and had a really good team.
But I think for kids now, it's, yeah, you do want to go where you're wanted where it's gonna be a good opportunity, you know where it's gonna be a good fit for you. Not just hockey wise, like academics is a big piece. Social, social life's a big piece. You go play hockey in college, like that's just a small chunk of your life there, so you gotta pay attention to kind of all those other factors.
But [00:09:00] I felt good about Northeastern. I wanted to play at a high level and challenge myself. And that's what I did. And I was able to play in, you know, not all the games. It was, it was a grind every week, but I think it kind of molded me into who I am today, where, you know, I was, I was kind of fighting for my life every single week, if you will, with competing just to play on Friday night.
And it was a dog fight. Sometimes there was, there was actually fights. But it was, it was awesome. That was that was just competing and, and advocating for yourself. And it was, I wouldn't, I wouldn't have changed it for the world looking back. So,
Jason Jacobs: Well, well, for what it's worth, I get chills even watching these Hockey East games as a fan, like I could ever dream on, you know, of, of setting foot on the hockey East Ice and you did it for four years. So, I mean, don't, don't take away from that at all. That's something that very, very, very few hockey players have ever done and could only dream of.
Mike Jamieson: No, I, I think I grew up watching it too, [00:10:00] right? I think that was so ingrained in me growing up in I would go to, my dad would bring us over to the s and watch the river hops and watch you know, I'd see BC come in, I'd see UNH come in, and that was like my dream, you know, I didn't even, I didn't even think about the NHL, I didn't even think about making money, playing the game, playing pro.
It was just, it was really hockey east it was just, and at that time growing up, like every school had superstars and the league was just, it, you know, if you grew up in the Boston area and, um, so wanted it in, in the worst way. You know, talked to a number of schools in the league and then ended up, you know, getting, being fortunate to get a spot at, at Northeastern and get the education I got and, and be at a bean pot school.
I think that was a big one too.
Jason Jacobs: And if I read right, didn't you then go to the pros after. So after, you know, grinding it out for four years, then you got to the pros and didn't you have a zillion points like your first, you know,
you enter the pros and all of a sudden you're let letting the lamp like crazy.
Mike Jamieson: yeah, I mean, I play, I always joke and say I, I played in [00:11:00] a, you know, more of a beer league, more semi-pro over in Germany, but really took that as kind of a, an experience, you know, it was more of a, probably a tier three kind of minor pro, semi-pro league where a lot of my teammates had like full-time jobs and you practice at night and play on the weekends, but it was packed.
And I'm still here now, kind of involved with the team. I actually played, I played for him last season. So I came back over here to work for 49 ing and I'm local and living in the area and. It was cool to kind of revisit that, but you know, my credit to my brother, like when I graduated from Northeastern I was kind of done, you know, I, I was a fourth line, fifth line guy that wears on you over four years. Loved my role and, and wouldn't change it for the world, but was kind of done with hockey. I got a job right after graduation and, and hung up the skates or, or so I thought, and my brother was kind of egging me on to, you know, 'cause it's something he wished that he did go play in Europe, go find somewhere to play.
And I ended up doing that. So I talked to an agent maybe like mid-July after kind [00:12:00] of working the desk job for April, may, June, you know, had the itch. And I found a home here in Germany and it changed my life. It was know, I, I, I all fell in love with the game again. Loved the fact that I was playing and playing, you know, at that point you're kind of. The guy, right? So you're, you're expected to score and you're on the power play. And so it's a lot of fun in that regard and, and having a big impact on those games. And the fans are going crazy, but also the off ice stuff and just seeing the world and I was you know, I was more of a, probably a mama's boy growing up.
Never thought that I'd be able to do something like that, but I'm so happy that I did. And, and then, you know, the icing on the cake was I met my, I met my my wife during that time, so it really change, changed my life
Jason Jacobs: Is it is? Is
she German?
Mike Jamieson: change. My wife is German. Yeah,
so that's what kinda brought us back over here is, is we got a family over here and the house over here.
So last summer we transitioned over here more full time and then, and then found the job with the 49 ing guys. And then I get to stay involved with [00:13:00] hockey, which is, which is my real passion, you know, coaching and, and they let me play. Last year they were, they were nice enough to let me play last year and they're gonna let me play again this year.
So I guess I did all right for.
Jason Jacobs: And, and we so, so where did the hockey ops at Northeastern Chapter fit into all of this?
Mike Jamieson: Yeah, so I I, I played, I graduated in 2017 and then I, I came over and played over here for three seasons and then kind of right around COVID, I went back home and was done playing. And I worked as a financial advisor for a year. Kind of wanted to get into that. It's what I kind of studied in school and wanted to get a taste of it.
So I did that for about a year and, um, liked it, learned a lot, didn't love it. Had the itch for hockey all along. And, It just so happened there was a, a coaching chain. So Jim Madigan, who was my head coach, moved up to AD and then Jerry Keefe, who was our, the longtime associate head coach there who recruited me, moved up to head coach.
So there was a shuffling there and an opening in the hockey [00:14:00] ops spot. And I, I actually went to Jerry's press conference. I walked over from my office in the summer when he took the job and someone nudged me kind of in that, in that press conference and said, there was gonna be an opening, would you be interested?
And, and talk. Started from there and ended up taking that job that fall. So, got outta the finance world, left it all behind, and went back into hockey. And, and that was that was an awesome decision. It was an unbelievable three years. Um, anyone out there that's looking to get into hockey, like those jobs are awesome, especially the way that they treated that role at Northeastern really kind of treated me like another coach and learned a ton just about what goes on behind the scenes.
And it was cool to see that because I, I used to play for that same program, right? So just to have respect now for the amount of preparation that goes into it on a day to day and, and the operations and everything that goes into running a program was just incredible. And like I said, was able to go to school and get my, get my master's degree at night.
So those three years were, were, were [00:15:00] awesome.
Jason Jacobs: Got it. So you did that and then you went to play in Germany.
Mike Jamieson: I did that after Germany, and then I came back and I'm playing again
Jason Jacobs: See Germany sandwich
on either side. Got it. Yeah.
Yeah,
Mike Jamieson: And never thought the playing thing would actually happen again. I was always kinda I'd love to play if I could sometime. And I used to joke with the guys on, you know, skill sessions on the ice or during practice that I could still play at Northeastern and just have a chuckle.
But yeah, just kind of got in shape there quickly. Last summer and, and played again after, I think it was a four or five year window of not, not playing, but certainly was on the ice every day in a tracksuit. So maybe that, maybe that was good enough to kind of hang onto the legs a little bit. So.
Jason Jacobs: Well, I definitely wanna get into some of the 49 stuff, but I mean, one question I have before we do is you, it, it seems like the path is getting harder for kids coming up that do aspire to play even in college, let alone [00:16:00] beyond college. It. And because of that, it seems like you really need to dial in.
And I mean, you look at the little guys, they, they, I mean, they're almost like working like little D one athletes when they're you know, barely outta diapers. Right. And, and I guess with the benefit of hindsight, as you think about the path coming up what advice do you have for players and families that are trying to determine if to go for it, how to go for it?
How much sacrifice is Okay. You know, how to balance dreams versus reality. You know, like a, like a dose of reality. Just like how do you reflect on the, on the landscape and, and, and what lens one should look through as they're trying to navigate it.
Mike Jamieson: It's, it's you know, I, it's hard for me to tell anyone not to dream or not to go for it, or [00:17:00] I guess like my path was just different, you know, growing up during that time it was like, I played hockey in the spring, I played baseball, kind of put the bag away. In the summer, you know, maybe did like a tournament here or there.
But like looking back, the one thing I know for sure is, and this is what maybe kids, this is maybe my message, what you can ask yourself is like, how bad do you really want it, you yourself, like not your, your parents, the people around you. Like you have to want it so bad. I pushed myself so hard.
I saw my brother go through it and good players, you know, worked our butts off good people and just kind of like barely made it division one really. Right. But I mean, the amount of time that I put in just on my own, like without my parents paying for, you know, they never paid for a, a private trainer or a skills coach, which is fine.
I think if you have the ability to kind of get those resources, absolutely take advantage. But you know, that's certainly not an excuse for a kid that, you know, his parents aren't able [00:18:00] to provide that. Go get it on your own. You know, I used to ride my bike to the gym. I used to shoot pucks in the driveway.
I worked out six days a week. I was kind of crazy obsessed with it. But I think most guys are, I think a lot of my friends that were growing up during that time, and I grew up in a good era of players too. You know, I was on the ice. It wasn't uncommon for me to be on the ice with a, like a Connor Sherry or Kevin Hayes, or a Charlie Coyle.
So I was pretty fortunate in that way to see how hard those guys were working, how good they were at that time, and the things that they were doing. But we just competed so hard, like even if it was a practice, a summer game, a, a camp. Um, but I just know in my mind, like almost probably to a default, like probably a lot of sleepless nights just thinking about how bad I wanted to play college hockey at the division one level.
And I just did everything that I possibly could to give myself a chance. And it is hard. Like I barely, I'll say I, I barely made it. I was I grabbed a spot there at Northeastern and I played. [00:19:00] Maybe half the game once, once you commit, right? That's only half the battle. Then you gotta get there. You gotta get on campus and you gotta compete against these guys and find your way in the lineup.
But it's hard. And, and I think it's gotten a lot harder. It's gotten a lot harder for kids. You know, the, the average, like the player, the me from Bill Ricka now coming up through it's, it's tougher. There's less spots. They just, you know, kind of open up the flood gates with the, with the CHL, which I think is awesome, but it's only gonna get tougher.
And I think the kids that really, really want it, that are the most competitive and the most kind of driven from within are gonna be the ones that make it.
Jason Jacobs: Uhhuh. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's interesting. It seems like there's, it's out of balance in terms of the the, the quantity of kids coming up in the sport and then the spots that are available to play the game in college. It's outta whack. And on the one hand you can say, oh, that's an issue and we need to fix it.
But maybe the issue is how many of [00:20:00] the kids coming up that are grinding are doing it for them versus just doing it because it's what their parents expect of them. And, and if they get flushed out of the game over time, you know, is that, is that just nature taking its course?
Mike Jamieson: Yeah, I mean, yeah, you're right. There's, there is, you know, now kind of if we're talking about college hockey seats, I guess, or spots like there's less, but I think there's gonna be more programs, so that'll kinda settle itself. But, like looking back, I never had a day where, yeah, there was tough workouts and there was times where I was sore and I didn't want to go to the gym.
Like I did it. I did it all on my own. I pushed myself, I kind of knew what needed to go into it. I knew how hard other people were working and how I needed to work harder. And, but I never I loved it. Like it was my passion from day one. And I think, you know, my dad used to always, he, he's, he still says it.
You gotta have a passion. You gotta have a passion for it. And I did I had, my parents never ever pushed me. My dad never once pushed me. My mom never [00:21:00] once said, did you work out? Did you eat? Did you never ever. And the same thing for my brother and the same thing for my sister. And kind of crazy, like all three of us ended up playing, you know, a division one sport hockey and softball.
Jason Jacobs: Did, did your parents play sports?
Mike Jamieson: no it's actually kind of a funny story. Well, they did, like my dad played at, at my dad played like JV hockey. I mean, my dad's parents didn't have the. The money to put him into like travel and he always says he was like a Bobby or out there skating on the river. But you know, he, he played, he loved hockey and that's probably why we got into it, but never, you know, he didn't even play on his varsity team at his, at his high school.
And, and my mom was a, you know, she was a, she was awesome, but she wasn't a, you know, really an athlete. She did like gymnastics and, and cheerleading and that type of thing, but we just kind of took it amongst ourselves and just, we just loved sports. We loved competing. And, and then once hockey, you know, even, even baseball, we were good baseball players and good soccer players.
And, um, once [00:22:00] hockey kind of became the front runner about 14, 15, you know, we just put everything we had into it and, and it was, yeah, it was awesome.
Jason Jacobs: And, and going back to the. Northeastern side the, or, or the the hockey ops side. The director of hockey ops. Is that a title that, that, that means something different? You know, if there're 10 schools that have a director of hockey ops, are they 10 different roles or is it largely the same role from school to school?
Mike Jamieson: I would say, yeah, I would say it's different everywhere. It's always so interesting to talk to people that were formally in those roles or like when you're on the road and you, you're all friendly, right? The guy, you know, how Maine's hockey ops is and how Harvard Hockey Ops is and the things that they're asked to do.
So it's really kind of like that Swiss army knife role where whatever you're asked to do, you do it. A big component of it is the video piece of it. So that's kind of where the 49 ing and, and that comes into play. But [00:23:00] yeah, I think everybody uses their hockey ops. Person completely different.
Similar but, but different in, in every way. So I've heard, you know, some are more like I was at Northeastern, I was pretty involved with the alumni. Obviously the video piece as I mentioned, um, you know, just anything kind of like day-to-day operations. They do have another role there that's more the coordinator, but, but kind of overseeing that and making sure the hotels are booked and the travel's planned and the, the, the ice for practice is booked.
So, you know, you help the coaches with making sure recruit comes in on time with their flight and then you go pick 'em up at the air. Just whatever you're asked to do on a day-to-day basis is, but the way Northeastern treated that role where I was on the ice every day and, and pretty involved with practice planning and, and that type of thing was a, was a treat.
That's, that was probably my favorite part. But you learn it's a great, it's a great gig to break into hockey and you learn a ton,
Jason Jacobs: And, and same question about video. [00:24:00] When you say I was involved in the video is it being involved in video the same at 10 different schools that leverage video or, or is that also widely different in terms of how schools are using video?
Mike Jamieson: I would say the majority of the hockey ops is is are using their, that person up top during a game with a headset on you know, cutting the video live during the game. There's, there's a few tools I could name, like where, you know, maybe they have an assistant that's up there doing that, maybe a student doing that, where that hockey ops is, is predominantly used for something else. Um, but I think in college hockey, I would say like 90 and 95% are used in that role up top. So that's a big part of the role as well on game day. And then. Making sure the coaches get the video that they need, that it's delivered to 'em kind of on time, whether that's after the game, in between periods and just being able to kind of help them with all that type of stuff.
So it's a big, it's a big part of the role that I [00:25:00] really kind of grew to love. Like I didn't, I didn't love video when I was in college because, you know, you're doing it once or twice a day and yeah, you're getting carved in some video sessions or brought up, or sometimes you're highlighted in a video session.
So it feels good. But I never, I was never like, comfortable in a video session, you know, probably for me 'cause it was kind of like I was fighting for my life every practice and every, every weekend. But when I got into the role, I, I understood kinda why it's used, why it's so important. And then, you know, just seeing like the one-on-one stuff, the small group stuff that's where it really kind of, I loved it.
I loved seeing how they, you know, grabbed NHL teaching clips and, and just, you're able to show it to a kid and this is how you wanna. Aspire to be, and this is how you, this is how you for check, you know, showing clips of like a Brad Marchand or guys like that and just the little intricacies of their game that you can show to a, to a high level player, you know, to a kid that's a second round draft pick that wants to get there, that's gonna get there. [00:26:00] Um, so you do your team level stuff, but also your special team stuff. So sitting in on a, sitting in on Jerry Keith's power play, you know, video sessions are, are awesome. I mean, that thing's been cooking at Northeastern for a long time and just being able to be a sponge with those types of things and even help 'em with it here and there when I could.
I was never on a power play in college. But and then, like I said, the small group, small group stuff is really pretty passionate, pretty passionate about, about that stuff.
Jason Jacobs: What have you observed both at Northeastern and otherwise? In terms of the balance between as a coach, I would imagine you wanna win, you wanna put the best kids on the ice, and if you don't have the best kids, then you need to recruit the best kids. So it starts with who you have, but then there's another whole task, which is developing who you've got how much focus is on choosing the right horses versus developing from within, and how much of that development is done in a team format versus the players off on their own.
Mike Jamieson: It's a good question. And you know, there's different kind of formulas and [00:27:00] different perspectives on it. Like you wanna do both, right? There's no secret there. You want to win and develop and you can do both. And I think Northeastern's done a really good job of that. You know, even looking at my roster you know, just how many guys we won, right?
We won a hockey East championship. We had very good teams and a lot of guys went and played in the NHL, right? So that's kind, that's the goal. And through the years, over the last you know, decade or so, they, they've just done a really good job of that. And you do it on, certainly on a team level and the team buy-in and how are we gonna play?
And you develop through that and you learn through that. But also there's a ton of that one-on-one or small group, whether it's an on ice skill session, you know, those are offered at least twice a day, you know, Monday through Wednesday, sometimes on a Thursday, you play on the weekends in college, obviously.
And then, you know, all the stuff that's on ice, all the stuff you do off the ice with with the strength coaches there. So they have Dan Booth be there and Mark Mastone, um, you know, kind of in the sports science, sports med, and then strength [00:28:00] coaching and just the resources that are there at the college level is, is incredible.
The, the gym's awesome. And, and the availability and the access that you have, and then. The personal attention that each player gets, whether it's nutrition, you know, whether it's kind of what they need on a Monday versus what another player needs on a on a Tuesday. And just kind of how they've been able to customize things.
And I think hockey as a whole has grown in that regard. Right. And has done a really good job at that. Sports in general, maybe even. But yeah, the development model in college is as good as, as good as any, I think that's the best development model for a young hockey player. I mean, you see, you know, you see the potential number one overall draft pick going to, going to Penn State next year for a reason.
Right? That's 'cause he's gonna, they're gonna put a premium on his player development and, and get him ready for you play less games. You can, you can work out more. You practice more. And that's another thing. Practice at the college level is you're going hard, you know, Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday you're not able to do [00:29:00] that when you're playing.
Right. 60 plus games and. And other leagues. But there's benefits to that too. There's benefits to playing a lot of games, don't get me wrong, but college development model is is great.
Jason Jacobs: W when you think about what it takes to make it in the game how much of it is what you're born with and how much of it comes from other factors, what you're taught, who's around you, what resources you have, et cetera. If you, if you put a kid, for example, that had unbelievable genetics, right, on a path and then another kid who didn't have those genetics at all, but just outworks everyone and wants it.
Better than anyone else or, or more than anyone else, who, who do you bet on in the long term that's that's gonna come out on top?
Mike Jamieson: Yeah, I mean, it's like the. Probably the old cliche, like that natural talent, natural ability, it's gonna take you far. There's some kids that are, [00:30:00] I coach kids that are extremely talented and gifted and that's taken them kind of to right where they are at, at a Northeastern or at a Division one program, or even into the, you know, the pros. But you know, being on a staff and going back and being able to kind of watch it all from that perspective. And I remember kind of my old teammates that had that drive, like seeing the kids that are like, really, really, they want it so bad and they're extremely driven. Like those are the guys that you kind of bet on at the end of the day, right?
I saw the work ethic of a, you know, a Jordan Harris and Aiden McDonough, a Justin metco, and like those types of players. Uh, and even my old teammates you know, the Stevens brothers, Josh Manson, like you, just looking back, Matt Benning, they just wanted it. And, and another piece of it too is confidence.
Like inner. Inner confidence is something I struggled with. Like in my role, it's, it's hard to be in and out of a lineup and be like the most confident person every day. Not an [00:31:00] excuse. I think you can still, you can still find a way to, to, to train your mind and, and be that, be that 'cause you need it.
But they just had, you know, not not arrogant cocky at all, but just the, just the confidence and aura about them that they were, they were gonna make it, they were gonna do it at all costs. And I think that's, to me, that's probably the, the most important thing is what's going on between the ears.
And do you believe in yourself and, and do you have confidence and are you driven? And do you know what you want to accomplish?
Jason Jacobs: From what you've observed being around high level. Players for a long time. Do the hands-off approach that your parents took, do you think that's the best approach across the board? 'Cause certainly there's some examples of people that go far in the game that have parents that have wildly different approaches in that, where they're pushing their kids a lot harder and they're more actively presenting opportunities and keeping the train on the tracks along the way.
You know, does that have a [00:32:00] shelf life that eventually, you know, that, that, that that doesn't end well? Or are there cases where where that is the, the best path depending on the kid?
Mike Jamieson: Well, yeah, I think it's, again, that was kind of my example and you know, I say it worked for me. I mean, I made it to Northeastern, but I didn't, you know, I didn't end up making millions of dollars and playing in the NHL, you know, maybe there was another gear to get to, who knows? But, it's funny, I watched the like that Mitch Marner documentary of him as a kid and his dad's on the glass, like banging on the glass.
He's kind of like that typical hockey dad. That was really hard on him and leaning on him and investing everything into him from a very young age. I think he's 10 or 11 in the, in the documentary and it was on the news. So it's on, you can look it up on YouTube at night. I mean, look at that example.
It turned out pretty good for him, right? So that's one extreme. And then, you know, I had
Jason Jacobs: I,
although I wanna know how it really turned out, right? Because it, it's like there's a difference between the optically, it's well, he turned out 'cause he played at this level versus what's going on inside? You know, if if, [00:33:00] if you achieve certain things but you're, but you're miserable.
Right. And I'm not saying suggesting at all that he is, but um, but so sometimes external success doesn't equal internal happiness. And then what's more important, right? But that, that's, that's a more
philosophical
Yep.
Mike Jamieson: an external example. Good
point of, he just signed a pretty good ticket in, in Vegas and yeah, things turned pretty good. Turned out pretty good for him. Right. And I'm sure he is taking care of his parents. And but then, yeah, like my example was my parents, I really mean it.
They didn't push us at all. Like they just kind of want, and they supported us and did everything for us. And you know, God bless him forward, it was the best upbringing you could ever want.
And so maybe that's, that's all we needed. Right? But they never, yeah, I had friends parents that were hard on 'em, you know, they had the, the car coaching going, did you work out today?
And I just wanted it. And I think, you know, that's where it came from. It didn't come from anywhere else besides within. I just wanted it that bad. So, I don't know. [00:34:00] It's hard. I think I have a son and we just got the mini hockey set, you know, he's, he's one and a half and I'm gonna try to kind
Jason Jacobs: you are late. You're late, Mike, man,
you waited till one and a half.
Mike Jamieson: You know, I think. My dad was just awesome about it. And my mom if, if my kid picks it up and wants to play, I'll just be his biggest supporter. And if he wants advice or kind of wants, you know, whatever I can give him, I'll, I'll do it. But I certainly, and you know, maybe push him and try to help him in, in certain ways.
But I see a lot of parents too, just working with younger kids and being around the rink at camps and whatnot, that really, you know, they push their kid and you can just see that the kid's maybe not as receptive to it, um, because maybe the parent wants it more than the kid, or maybe, maybe the kid just doesn't want it that bad.
I think at the end of the day, there's a huge difference between, you know, hockey players and kids that play hockey. And I think that's, that's one that I heard, I forget who shared that with me, but like hockey [00:35:00] players I consider myself a hockey player growing up, I wanted it in every way.
Everything I. I did was revolved around hockey. I made all the sacrifices. I, you know, I worked out, I trained, I, I did really well in school 'cause I wanted to give myself the best chance to play college hockey. It was just kind of eat, sleep, and breathe hockey. Um, and then there's kids that just play hockey 'cause their friends do it and it's cool and they kind of like it, but they're not obsessed with it.
And I think that's okay. But I think you as a parent have to understand, you know, who's in front of you, who your son or daughter is, and you should kind of be able to figure that out, right? If you're telling 'em to get up and, and dragging 'em out of bed every morning at 6:00 AM to go to the rink and they're kind of like, then maybe they don't love it as much.
You know, when my dad came in and turned the light on, I was already probably awake and at 5:00 AM ready to, ready to go to the rink, ready to go to a hockey tournament and play. 'cause I wanted it and, and loved it that much. So that would kind of be my, my message on [00:36:00] that.
Jason Jacobs: And so in terms of the 49 ing stuff so you were working in hockey ops at, at Northeastern. It sounds like you were involved pretty heavily on the video side. What kinds of tools were you using there, and then when did 49 ing come on your radar?
Mike Jamieson: Yeah, so I was a we were using catapult, formerly known as exos ins stat a number of different, a number of different products. And, you know, I, and those were great like those companies were, were really good to, to me and, and really good to us and worked well for the staff and the players.
And and in my second season at Northeastern, I went over and coached the team at the World Selects, which is this really cool, popular new youth tournament. And I took a trip out of it and,
Jason Jacobs: What age does that start? So my kid is 13. I Is that, does that start at 14 and up?
Mike Jamieson: Younger. Yeah, it was like the kids were, the kids were young, they were like 10, 11.
Um, and and
that's '
Jason Jacobs: cause I've been hearing about that one, but also I'm still, I'm still [00:37:00] figuring out this, this whole world.
Mike Jamieson: it was really cool. So younger and, and when you're younger, you go to Europe and typically as you get older and you're more maybe your recruitable age, they're back in Philly, the Philly area, and there's another one over here, maybe in the Boston area. But, so I was over in in Prague for a week coaching a team there.
So just obviously used it as a experience and then kind of coaching and met a lot of awesome people. Um, and then did one in Chamee, France, which was really cool. Kind of like a bucket list place if you've ever been. It's, it's beautiful. But 49 ing was doing all the games at the tournament in France. And Don Monson, who's one of our board members who's awesome. He's a Minnesota guy who lives kind of full-time in Switzerland now, and. And is involved in 49 ing in a big way was, was there and his kid was actually playing in the tournament. So our teams were playing against each other and, and just like all these companies, you know, they, they just want to get it in your hands.
They want to sell it to you. We have the best product. And, you know, kind of [00:38:00] heard Don out and, and saw what I saw and, and I kind of knew right then and there that this, this one was different than any of the others. Like it's, it, you know, the ability to break a game down in real time blew me away.
And all the level of insight, the video tags that it gives you I'm allowed to say this 'cause I was a former video coach. It, it's a video coach on steroids. You know, as, as a video coach, you're hitting B for breakout and p for power play. And you're trying to provide all those insights, you know, live for your coaches so they have it in between periods.
I mean, this does all that. And more. You know, you can look at the kind of the tag list of everything that they're able to provide. I couldn't think of another one that I would add. So I think, and, and, you know, we went down long story long. I ended up going back to Northeastern and kind of bringing it back there with me and trying to integrate it a little bit for myself.
My coaches were kind of comfortable using what they were using. And then in year three used it a little bit with my players and, and saw the value there where like [00:39:00] they, you know, they had player shifts available automatically after every single game. And if I wasn't providing that myself, typically, like on the road up at Main or at UNH, that wouldn't be the case, you know, with some of these other companies, you know, that's coming out the next morning.
So the fact that looking back, you know, like Cam Lund might have asked me, Hey, jam, you got my shifts on a Friday night, we just play Maine. It's no, I don't actually, I didn't, I didn't do that tonight. Kind of crazy to me, looking back like a player of that caliber should never not have their shifts after a game in college hockey. So like that one kind of tugging at the heartstrings and then everything else that it provides. And, um, you know, we ended up, I ended up kind of helping 'em piece together the, the partnership with Hockey East. Um, and then my wife and I were transitioning back over here and they asked me to work for 'em.
And that's kind of, that's kind of how that whole thing happened. But really do now, never thought, I'd never ever thought I'd be on this side of it. I still see myself as a, you know, a coach and in a player development role, [00:40:00] but I feel like I'm kind of still involved in the game where I talk to coaches every day and it's been a blast.
And I, I believe in the product. I think it's the best player development, you know, hockey, video product in the world. For a number of reasons. And I, I love selling it.
Jason Jacobs: So if you look at the existing landscape and the incumbents what is it complimentary to and what does it replace?
Mike Jamieson: I think it can replace everything. I think it's it's as complimentary to anything that you're using, but I think it's, it's a video editing system. It's the best player experience I've ever seen. You can, you know, analytically it's as good as anything I've seen out there. From a, you know, again, from a video perspective, there's absolutely nothing on there that you cannot do. The only, I think it's a really small hurdle at this point. The only hurdle, if any, is just, it doesn't have every league yet. But as we continue to acquire more leagues and more teams, I mean, that's gonna fill that gap. And once that happens, I think it's only a matter of
Jason Jacobs: And, and getting the league means getting the film.
Mike Jamieson: getting [00:41:00] the film.
Exactly. So getting a team, getting a league, I think once that's kind of taken care of, there's nothing in the way of this platform. I think it could be, I could, it could be the national provider for any league. You know, I'm talking down through as low level of youth hockey as you would want to go with, with film review and analytics all the way up through the highest levels of pro hockey, college hockey.
The NHLI think it's it's incredible.
Jason Jacobs: One thing I've been trying to piece together is you, I mean, you have the analytics providers, the, you know, huddle in stats or the sport Logics or the 49 ings, and then you have the you, you, you have the cameras, the live barns, you have, you know, black bear sports coming into the picture. Do you do you guys get the film from.
The rink from the league, from the video provider, from the team. Does it vary in, in different cases? Because obviously [00:42:00] if you don't have, like you just said, if you don't have the video, you can, can't provide the analysis, but it seems like the video is a bit of the wild west right now.
Mike Jamieson: So we, we get the video from our clients, right? So whether that's a league, whether that's a team, you know, whether that's a. Even an individual, a parent that wants their son or daughter's game broken down that's who provides us the video. And, and that's how we kinda get the rights to that and, and break it down for them, and they're kind of transferring the rights to us and, and do, and providing that back for 'em.
So, but yeah, there's a lot of really good, you know, providers out there, whether it's a, you know, a stationary camera in a rink, like a live barn or you know, and same with college hockey games or on ESPN Plus and on Nessen. And so yeah, that just kind of gets transferred from our clients over to us so that we can kind of provide them that service.
Jason Jacobs: Got it. And then when you get a deal done with a league, for example, then you get that film in an automated way. It's like behind the scenes, the game's played, [00:43:00] it comes to you? Or is it still a pretty manual process?
Mike Jamieson: Yeah. And also at the, at the highest levels, we're
doing it live, right? So we would you know, we'll get in, we'll work with the arena production crew at a. A Swiss Prolia game in Zurich, like they're working with that production crew, making sure they get the IP addresses of those cameras. And I'll botch it if I try to explain exactly how they do it.
But bottom line is they're trying to get that latency down to, as, as small of a number as possible so that they're really breaking that game down in, in as close to as real time as possible. Which is, which is incredible. Something I'd never seen before. And also ingesting, like I said, every camera angle that's in the building.
And, and there's no limit on that. So they can ingest, I think in the Swiss Pro League, you know, 10 to 12 camera angles. So it is a, it is a full, fully functioning video review system. You know, you think of college hockey where they had challenges and, and those types of things where a hockey ops [00:44:00] person, I don't miss those nights, would, would have to make a call that could.
If that could kind of make or break a game. And, and with something like this, you could have access to every single camera in seconds and kinda go back and, and be able to make those, make those calls and, and, and with some precision. Um, but also using those multi angles as a coach in between periods and wanting to see your, your neutral zone from a different perspective or as a goalie coach, you know, wanting to see how a goalie made a save or letting a goal and being able to look at the overhead, you know, the one right behind the nat or the one that's from the, the the neutral, the whatever, whatever cameras are in the building.
So being able to use those for coaching on demand, but also multi angle video review, um, is just a really, really cool, unique aspect. We work with, you know, officiating is a big one that impressed me, like working with directors of officials of leagues and kind of creating a remote situation room, um, with everything that I just described and tagging, you know, the linesman of the [00:45:00] officials, every single offsides or icing that was called or missed. Every penalty that was called, and maybe ones that were, we saw as a potential missed call or every situation, every review challenges as I, as I mentioned, being able to tag all those situations with the multi angle in real time so that that person can be anywhere in the world and provide what they need to provide.
And then those linesmen and officials can also have a teaching tool as well after a game, just like a player and a coach can, can utilize it for.
Jason Jacobs: When you look at the needs of a team and a coach v versus the needs of a player and, and let's say a player development coach, whether it's an individual or whether it's a player development arm of an agent or or, or things like that, where, where's there overlap in those needs, and then where do those needs diverge and, and.
And, and then within that, where is 49 ing focusing?
Mike Jamieson: Yeah, I think it's, it's all encompassing. Like I think we have [00:46:00] conversations with, with agencies, we have obviously leagues, teams, individuals, but I think the way we break a game down, you know, on the team level, if I'm a coach after the game, I'm an assistant coach at Northeastern and my job is, you know, special teams in D Zone.
Like you can go and look at your penalty kills and your power plays and filter for. You know, your entries on the power play, but you can also go look at your breakouts under pressure and kind of look at those team aspects and also the analytical components with it. You know, how many times did we enter on the power play? You know, how many times did we break the puck out clean? Did we have problems in our own end? And then, you know, switching to an individual level, if you're the coach at Northeastern, you can also look at statistically, who's my power play shooter? Who's my, you know, who's my best, you know, defensive defenseman, making a good first pass out of the zone.
And you want those clips specific to, you know, Mike Jamison every time he skated back for a puck. [00:47:00] Maybe it's, you know, 11, I wasn't a defenseman, but just an example, 11 times in the game last night, and seven out of the 11, he broke it out when, when he was on the ice. So those are the things you can look at.
And then that transfers right over to the individual. You know, I, if I wanna look at my shots, my face offs, my analytics, my agent wants to look at those things. Um, you know, I have a, I have a private video coach maybe that wants to look at my things on the platform. I think it's as extensive as you can get. So I, I think it's, it's all encompassing and it's all available. And another thing that, that, yeah, another point of that really attracted me to the platform is there's so many different use cases and there's really kind of no, no dead ends in any direction. Whether you're a team, whether you're a league, you're, you're an officiating company, you're an agency, you're an individual user, a parent. I think there's a use case on this platform for everybody. And the, the versatility of the people behind it, you know, the company [00:48:00] itself, the intentions that they have the engineers they're, they're really willing and able to kind of customize to, to anything right now.
Jason Jacobs: Hockey has a reputation from a tech standpoint of being a bit of a laggard or, or maybe not as bought into the role that technology can play. You, I mean, you're in the trenches on the ground with real time data on the state of the sport. What are you seeing in. That regard is that reputation founded?
And also whether it is or it isn't, is it, you know, is is it changing?
Mike Jamieson: I think it's, it's definitely changing. You know, I'm, I'm kind of one of one of those hockey people you described. I agree. I think, you know, we're, I'm more like we say eye test versus, you know, n video versus the, the data and the analytics that kind maybe you should really be basing your decision off of.
So I think there's a lot of coaches out there that are. [00:49:00] Like myself and I've, I've really kind of become, you know, I work for the company that I work for, so I've obviously seen the value and not that I didn't believe in it before, it's just, you know, your comfort zone of just cutting up video and making decisions based on what you see rather than looking at statistics. But I think, you know, from the NHL level down, I know there's, that's, it's changed a lot. I Remember hearing a, hearing a a webinar of Ken Hitchcock talking, obviously a pretty successful coach at the NHL level and him talking about, you know, how, you know, making lineup decisions based on analytics and statistics and who plays better with who and who, you know, Coursey and kind of all those things that, that are a part of our game now.
You know, Coursey ISS one where it's used and guys, guys are either paid or not paid because of it. It's a part of our game. So hearing him talk about it. Really kind of made me think that was a, you know, a number of years ago, but I think it's definitely heavily, heavily used now at the NHL level. And it's slowly trickling [00:50:00] down through you know, you know, minor pro in college.
And I think a lot of coaches are just, there's a lot of really, really successful coaches in our game that are, they've been coaching for 20, 30, 40 years and, and doing things the way that they've done things right for a long time. And you kind of have to respect that they're really good at what they do.
But you know, they do also, some of them realize that some of them don't like you, you do kind of have to adapt to, to the way the game's changing and going more in the direction of data and analytics to help yourself as a coach to have more success, but also to, to help your players. So I do think there's a, you know, there's a point in a playing career.
I don't know what that is, where data and analytics should be introduced. I don't think a 12-year-old needs to see his corsi. But at a certain point, you know, I think it needs to be, that door needs to get opened and we need to start, start to educate players on, on some of the data and the statistics and, and integrating [00:51:00] that into there to help them.
Jason Jacobs: And I mean it seems like you guys are at the tip of the spear as it relates to AI in the sport of hockey. If you look outside of the sport of hockey, there's a lot of talk about AI taking jobs and getting too smart for us to control and almost like stuff out of science fiction. Within the sport of hockey, what things do you think the machines will take on over time and what things will always be human?
Mike Jamieson: Yeah. It's it was a funny one, like we were down in Florida at the coaches convention and a lot of hockey ops people and staffs were saying, oh, what, you know, we can get rid of our video guy now, or girl. And it's funny, right? But I think. That's obviously not true. I mean, those people are incredibly valuable. But what I think this is gonna do is, is kind of propel you or Hey, you know, you're gonna find out now how good your video coach, your director of hockey op really is. I mean, he or she's gonna have all this available to them and how can they kind sift through it for you and, and, [00:52:00] and make an impact on your program in game after the game and, and kind of get you the what you need. So I think it's gonna only, you know, really kind of empower, empower those roles. And you know, speaking specifically of In Game, I said it like there's no reason anymore to do time on ice with a mouse. Every time a player gets on and off the ice and clicking, like those days are over, like this kind of nses, all that do something else.
There's no reason to hit you know, t for turnover and and f for four track. And this is doing all of that times. I mean, there's probably over a half a million different outcomes. In a game. So do something else. Be the eye in the sky for your coaches. Do something more custom, take a step and, and do something that you haven't done because all of this is, is being provided.
And I thought that was, yeah, that's what really kind of attracted me to them. But I think, yeah, I don't think this replaces jobs. I think it just kind of makes people better at their job. Or you're gonna, you're gonna find out who you have when, when something like this is, is [00:53:00] brought into play.
Jason Jacobs: And this, this isn't really a technology question, but there, there's. D different narratives. One narrative. So I'm kind of gonna give you the two extremes again 'cause I wanna see where you come out. One, one narrative is that the game is so much more surgical today. And and you can delve into this and delve into that and delve into this and develop this expertise and that expertise and, and it, and it's almost there's a rigor to it.
And being a student of the rigor can lead to better outcomes, right? And then there's another school of thought that's you guys are just making it so fricking complicated. Back to basics. Like just get out there, work hard, be smart, play the game and everything else takes care of itself. You know, all this hocus pocus stuff.
Like it's, you know, it's a bunch of smoke and mirrors. What's the truth?
Mike Jamieson: I mean, I'm with you on it. I think all that stuff's No, I am, I think it's all, it's useful, right? It's there for you. It can help you, you know, [00:54:00] it can verify or, or you know, give ammo to a player or a coach and it's awesome. It's, you can study it and, and be a student of the game and all the above.
But at the end of the day, you know, you gotta go put your equipment on and go on the ice and compete. That's not changing. So, you know, the best players are the best players for a reason. 'cause they put the work in. It's not because they, I don't know, they study data and analytics and they, you know, maybe, maybe that's a small piece of it.
But I think at the core it's, they love playing the game. They have an in, they have an a considerable passion to play hockey. And they compete and they work. And, and they have it. They, you know, they fight through adversity. And I think that's, that's never, that's never changed. I think there's just more tools out there.
There's more resources and and 49 ing is, is kind of one of those.
Jason Jacobs: Huh And it, it sounds like 49 is very involved on more of the data analytics side when it [00:55:00] comes to okay, now I understand where I am as a player. How do I get better? Is the, how do I get better part something that 49 ing plans to take on directionally, or is that something that your data will inform, but it's for somebody else to, to, to build and, and implement?
Mike Jamieson: No. Yes, I mean, with the hockey ai, with the AI coaching piece it's pretty blunt. It's you know, a player can ask it, you know, how, how did I play tonight? And it's gonna give you some pretty legit answers from the data, right? And video examples as well. You know, here's some examples of turnovers or, you know, whatever it may be.
If it was a good night, here's what you did really well. It'll, it'll give you that language and also back it up with the video, which I think is really, really cool. Um, and obviously on a, you know, on a coaching level, same thing. You know, why didn't we score on the power play tonight? Who was the better team? Um, and, and it's gonna give you, it's gonna back it up with all that really good language from the data that we collect from the game, and then also the [00:56:00] corresponding, the corresponding, video. So it's, it's a, it's a tool that, that is, that is very interactive. And also, you know, very easy to, very user friendly and easy to use.
Jason Jacobs: Mm-hmm. Very cool. Yeah. 'cause one of the things I'm thinking about and again, I'm early, I've not started building anything yet. I don't have a team, I don't have an entity. I'm just learning and exploring. But but is okay, that baseline is important in terms of like, how did I do and what do I need to work on?
But then when it comes to how to work on those things, and almost like a personalized development program, right? What should I do? What drills should I do? What should I do on the ice? What should I do off the ice? How do I change my diet? How do I dial in the mental performance? Today it seems like that's where the human player development coach comes in.
One of the things I am looking at is if you sit with those coaches for enough time and get enough reps and enough edge cases, et cetera, can the machines actually [00:57:00] start to learn how to provide more of that? Not to replace the coach, but to make that coach's bandwidth go further so that they could serve more players and families, presumably at a lower price per player and family, and increase the accessibility of high-end player development to more families and, you know, grow the journeys of those players and grow the game.
Mike Jamieson: Yeah, no, I think it's, I think it's all coming. I think it's a great kind of thought question idea. I think 49 ing plays a role in that for sure. But I think the blend of, you know, a kid today in today's world might have a, a skills coach you know, a video coach, a a trainer, right? How can, how can how can the data or like the lessons, I guess from all of 'em kind of come into play and, and how can you use the data AI mapping of it all to kind of give the, the player the best advice the best, you know, here's the areas you need to work on.
Here's what you're doing really well. Here's how to emphasize those [00:58:00] areas. So I think it's, yeah, I think it's, it's a good, I it's a good thought. It's a good idea. And I think there's something there for sure.
Jason Jacobs: Cool. Yeah. Gosh. I mean, we've covered so much. Is there anything I didn't ask you, Mike, that you wish I did? Or any parting words for listeners?
Mike Jamieson: No no. My only parting words would be, oh, hockey's a great game. Like it's it's been really good to me. It's been really good to, you know, I met, I met all my best friends playing hockey. Um, loved kind of my playing days. And it's just a great sport that I'm still a huge fan of today. And I'm gonna walk my dog now and listen to listen to a hockey podcast of some of some sort.
But I just think it's a, it's an awesome, it's an awesome one, and I'm happy to be a part of the, the hockey community and, you know, kind of met you through the, the hockey community and have met a lot of great people because of it. And it's given me a lot of opportunities and met my wife through playing hockey.
So. It's [00:59:00] just a great one that I'm happy to be a part of. And yeah, it's, it's awesome
Jason Jacobs: Where do you wanna be in 10 years? Professionally,
Mike Jamieson: I don't know, I'm you know, I'm pretty
passionate about what I'm doing now. I, I never thought I'd be doing this. But I love the work that I'm doing and I wanna get this in the hands of every young player coach, organization, league. So I don't know, I don't know where that leads me. I, I definitely still have the itch to coach a lot. I kind of do that a little bit with the team that I'm involved with here in Germany. But I love, I love player development. I love video coaching. I love being on the ice with, with players. So I'm not sure, but I'm very kind of open-minded and, and open to new things and like trying new things.
So I wish I had a better answer, but, um, I'm trying to stay grounded and stay in the moment, and I, and we'll see, we'll see what happens.
Jason Jacobs: Well, I'm just coming in. I mean, I, you know, I played the sport and although not nearly at the level that you did, and, and I've you know, kind of had a rebirth of [01:00:00] my level of the sport now as a, as a dad. And then of course there's, there's this journey, but I'm a, you know, but I'm a newcomer in terms of the, the business of hockey.
But just one one nugget is that the way you described yourself as a glue guy in the, you know, in the, in the locker room in your playing days, it's pretty clear to me that you're also just a glue guy in the sport. Your, your name comes up a lot and and people love you. So, so I'm sure what, whatever path you take, it's gonna be something great and I'm excited to follow along.
Mike Jamieson: Appreciate that. Thanks Jason. And same to you. Your your name comes highly regarded and, and yeah. I'm excited that we met and excited that I did my first podcast with you. I'll never forget it,
Jason Jacobs: All right. Hope it was a great one. Well, thanks Mike. Best of luck to you.
Mike Jamieson: Thanks. Appreciate it.
Jason Jacobs: Thank you for tuning in to the next, next. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did and you haven't already, you can subscribe from your favorite podcast player, whether it's Apple, Spotify, or any of the others. We also send a newsletter every week on the journey itself. The new content that we publish, [01:01:00] the questions that we're wrestling with, how the platform itself is coming along, that we're planning to build for player development, and where we could use some help.
And you can find that at the next next.substack.com. Thanks a lot and see you soon.