In this episode of The Next Next, host Jason interviews Jesse Winchester, a former professional ice hockey player who transitioned into player development after an NHL career from 2008 to 2016. The discussion delves into Jesse's non-linear path to the NHL, highlighting his late blooming, work ethic, and passion for the game. They explore the evolution of hockey from Jesse's youth to the present, the balance between skill development and hockey IQ, and the role of parents in the athletic journey of their children. Jesse shares insights from his time in the NHL and his coaching experience, emphasizing the importance of love for the game and simple, effective training. The conversation also touches on the challenges of youth sports today and potential improvements in player development platforms.
In this episode of The Next Next, host Jason converses with Jesse Winchester, a former NHL player and player development coach for the Ottawa Senators. Jesse shares his unconventional journey to the NHL, emphasizing the importance of work ethic and passion. They discuss the evolution of the game, contrasting Jesse's development era with the present, and the increasing role of skill at the expense of hockey IQ. The conversation also delves into the challenges of raising young athletes today, balancing ambition, intrinsic motivation, and healthy development. The episode explores the potential for new platforms to better support youth athletes in their development, focusing on skill-building, competition, and balancing passion with structured growth.
00:00 Introduction to Jesse Winchester
00:43 Jesse's Journey to the NHL
01:10 Comparing Past and Present Hockey Landscapes
03:43 Early Influences and Work Ethic
15:32 The Role of Parents in Youth Sports
24:27 Balancing Structure and Freedom in Development
29:30 Building a New Athlete Development Platform
31:04 Emphasizing Joy in Skill Development
32:11 Balancing Development and Joy
33:59 Intrinsic Motivation and Gameplay
35:03 Challenges of Home Training
37:28 The Role of Parents in Development
38:47 Hockey IQ and Skill Development
42:25 The Importance of Video Analysis
44:44 Coaching Philosophy and Player Development
50:04 The Role of Agents in Player Development
52:15 Balancing Competitive and Personal Goals
57:37 Reflections on Personal Development
01:00:52 Future Plans and Advice for Parents
Jason Jacobs: Today on The Next Next, our guest is Jesse Winchester. Jesse was a professional ice hockey player in the NHL from 2008 to 2016 with the senators, the Panthers, and the Avalanche, and then spent over five years with the senators in their player development organization from 2019 to 2024. I first met Jesse when I.
Was focused on the energy transition with MCJ. And Jesse had left the game and was looking to move in that direction and we kept in touch. He's a fantastic guy and, and when I started heading on the path of building a new kind of athlete development platform, starting in hockey, Jesse was one of my first calls.
We have a great discussion in this episode about his non-linear path to the NHL, his late blooming as a player and the critical importance of work ethic and passion. We talked through his career and , how much of the game was [00:01:00] self-directed and how much of it came from his family in the earliest years when he knew that he had a shot of making it to the show, how that journey went.
We contrast. The landscape of the game when he was growing up versus the landscape today, and we also just talk about some of the nuances of how skill is increasing and in some ways at the expense of hockey IQ and where a platform like the one that I'm envisioning might be able to help. This is a great one and I hope you enjoy it.
Jesse, welcome to the show.
Jesse Winchester: Hey, thanks so much for having me, Jason.
Jason Jacobs: Thanks for coming. Uh, gosh, I'm, I'm so excited. I got to know you a little bit back when I was doing MCJ and you were thinking about climate stuff. Uh, and I remember that conversation. Well, I actually brought my little guy with me at the time. This was many years ago. Uh, he was a lot littler then.
And that was a big thrill for him because you're, you have a long career in the NHL and, uh, and, um, and he loves the, the sport of [00:02:00] hockey. But at any rate, fast forward to. Today and I'm heading out to build this platform in youth sports, starting in hockey focused on player development.
And here you are with a long career in the NHL and then a long career in player development. And gosh that's just beyond relevant for what I'm thinking about. So I'm so grateful for you making the time.
Jesse Winchester: Yeah, I'm excited to get into it. So, uh, let's get started.
Jason Jacobs: I mean, my first thing for you is, so I had Colin Wilson on the show, and his dad played in the NHL, his grandfather played in the NHL. And he told me that he knew when he was nine years old that he was gonna make it. He just believed that. And then I had Matt Calvert on the show, and his parents weren't very athletic, and when he was 18, he still dreamed of being an accountant.
And then he went on and had a gr had a great career in the show. So, tell me about your path, Jesse.
Jesse Winchester: Yeah, my path is probably more in line with Calvert's path. You know, I, I was more of a late bloomer, I guess you could say. I was passed over in all the drafts, the OHL, [00:03:00] uh, the NHL was kind of a long shot to be you know, to think that I can be selected. But you know what, it wasn't something that I didn't think I could ever do.
Like I had the hope and I had the dream, I had the work ethic, and I just had to be patient in my journey. You know, I went to, uh. Colgate University played four years there, and then was, you know, so fortunate to sign with, uh, my hometown team in Ottawa, um, begin my NHL journey there before moving on, you know, to Florida after a brief stint in Europe.
And then it ended in Colorado and I transitioned into coaching and player development, which, you know, getting to live my life in the NHL in a different way was really, really rewarding. And, um, you know, grateful for my experience in the game.
Jason Jacobs: And you, you said that you had the work ethic. Where did that work ethic come from and, and when did it first start showing up?
Jesse Winchester: Well, I think I, it was just a longstanding obsession with the game. I loved everything about it. So, just loved experimenting, loved learning, loved challenging [00:04:00] myself. Wasn't afraid to challenge my body physically, so, I just loved everything the game had to offer, so I put everything I had to offer back into the game, and it seemed to work out in my favor.
Jason Jacobs: Were you single sport, uh, from from a little guy, or did you play other stuff too?
Jesse Winchester: No, I, I, my introduction to the game kind of predates like the single sport like narrative that we see everywhere today. You know, like I did play a little bit of soccer, I played golf, but we were just outside all the time. So in the summer I grew up in a smaller town, so the access to ice wasn't really there.
I played summer hockey for one season and my parents said, that's enough. We're on the road all winter, you got two brothers, let's figure out a way, different way to do this. So, we were big into the outdoors and, you know, that's something I really value now in life with my kids. But when the time came to really commit myself to the game fully around the clock, you know, it was an easy choice to make for me personally.
So, you know, but I arrived at it maybe [00:05:00] differently than kids today or getting to that realization.
Jason Jacobs: When did you arrive at that?
Jesse Winchester: If you ask my parents, I'd say I was probably determined since I was six, but with their guidance, you know, when I first started to get into the gym, um, maybe 14, 15, 16 years old, um, so a bit behind today's curve. Um, we didn't have access to skill development coaches and all these things that you know, seem to be the norm today.
But my buddies and I were out outside playing on, uh, outdoor rinks all day, every day in the winter. And we didn't have organized games, you know, we were playing in the driveways. We were just active kids. And I think as you know, you, I got into puberty and kind of, you know, started to decide how I wanted to see my life take shape.
It was more of an effort on their part to, get me to the gym, get me to these places. But it, it kind of happened naturally a bit later than most, I'd say.
Jason Jacobs: Uhhuh. Yeah, [00:06:00] it's interesting. I mean, it it, it seems like, I mean there's a few dynamics that have changed from when we were growing up. Uh, one is that there was just a lot more, a lot more kind of free range kids, right? That just went out and did their own thing. And people talk now about how that's what kids should do, but there's a problem, right?
Because it's like, okay, that's the decision I'm gonna make for my kid. Okay, go out and be a free range kid with all the other kids in the neighborhood. It's like, wait. There's no kids in the neighborhood, right? 'Cause everyone else is on the scheduled track, right? So, so it, it's a, it's a bit of like, you can't do it without everyone else doing it, and then no one else can do it without you doing it, so then no one does it.
Right. So that's one difference. Another difference is that it seems like, I mean people, people like back in the day kinda fell into the pro path just because they loved the game and they were playing it, and then it just kind of, one thing led to another, led to another. Whereas now there's a lot more kind of grooming from the youngest ages by the parents, right.
And uh, and then of course [00:07:00] now there's a rise of so much more resources from the young stage for that. Grooming. But but there's different schools of thought. One is that it's like, whoa, if you get 'em into the, to the best preschool, then they'll get into the best this and the best. This gets them into the best.
That, and the that, and you miss the train when they're four, like, don't even bother. Right? And then the other school of thought is they're gonna end up where they're meant to be and just back off. So I guess how does that jive based on, uh, you know, relative to what you're seeing and also what do you think about the state of the state?
Jesse Winchester: So many good questions. Have you read the book range by any chance?
Jason Jacobs: Gosh, doing all these podcasts, give me all these great book suggestions, but I'm so busy recording that I don't have fricking time to read. So, but I'm gonna write that down.
Jesse Winchester: put it on your list,
Jason Jacobs: I haven't read it, but, uh, but I, now I'm gonna put it on my list, but go ahead.
Jesse Winchester: but it goes into the different types of personalities, how people learn, how people kind of find their way, and it kind of, tosses to the side, like the idea of like a tidy notion or a [00:08:00] tidy prescription to do, you know, in the way you do things. And then there's a lot of randomness. And what I found is like, you can, you can have these dis these discussions and there's no right answer.
It, it, everybody's so different. Everybody learns at different times, uh, they mature at different times or you'll handle something. For me, it was always coming back to like keeping it very, very simple. Like, how much do I love it, you know, and how hard am I willing to work at it? And I was no, by no means like a, like a top prospect at any level, but I had those things and that kind of shielded me from all the things that kind of can steal your attention.
So I guess I love to have the debates and I don't under, but I'm not really on one side of the spectrum or the other. I just like to see kids enjoy their experience in the game. Number one, when they leave the game, in my case after a long career or a someone after college [00:09:00] or after minor hockey, I want them to be able to look back and say it was worth it.
And they, they've enjoyed their experience. So assuming we can check off all these boxes in, in whichever way or whichever path kids go down, and I think it's a worthwhile. Discussion to have, but I don't think there is a right or a wrong necessarily. I hope that answered it.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, I mean I don't either, like, I'm just trying to figure it out for me, but then what, whatever I figure out for me doesn't mean that's gonna be right for the person on my left or the person
Jesse Winchester: Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: my right. And then to think about building a platform that's gonna help. Lots of people. It's like, well, gosh, there's so many questions there.
Because if, if the path, if different paths makes sense for different people, then there's no, then how do you standardize on a platform? Like, does the platform just have extreme customization where it's completely personalized, depending on each, each kid and each family's desires and needs and wants and logistics and, so that's, that's all the stuff I'm sorting through.
But, but I, I mean, it, it isn't, go, go ahead, Jesse.
Jesse Winchester: But I love [00:10:00] that debate and that thought process and how you're coming to a vision of how to build something like in our earlier discussions, I just leave each one fascinated by how you're trying to attack the problem, much like you did with your MCJ and learning in public about climate. And that's originally the kinds of things like it's curiosity based and you're open to people's opinions.
And I think in hockey it's the same way. Anything you're trying to build, it's that openness and curiosity that's gonna help fuel the fire. So that's why I think, obviously you're going down a worthy path like you and, and it's gonna work for so many people.
Jason Jacobs: I hope so. As someone who's played the game at the highest levels and who also has focused on developing players at the highest levels are there any, but who also just said that everyone's path is different, right? Are there any commonalities that you see in terms of the, the players that make it to the top?
And if so, what [00:11:00] are they?
Jesse Winchester: Even within that very small, section of people playing globally that end up making it the top, there is a wide range of skill. There's a wide range of interest outside the, everybody's different. Having said that, they're, and they reach that, they reach the level at different times and they have to fill different roles within a team.
But yeah, my job was to kind of help the player mature behind the scenes so that then when they came to us as draft picks. They improved the point where they were, they, they became assets for our team on the ice. So for some, like a Tim Zel, I really have no impact on, on him. He's like such a talent. He, he enters NHL 'cause he's just so god-given skill, and he's gonna be a superstar.
And then the coach and staff grooms him over time. But there's players who take, 3, 4, 5 years from the time they're drafted, who, who make [00:12:00] smaller gains and who aren't gonna be the guys who dazzle on the ice, but who provide real value to the team as it moves forward. And that was more of my, my job, making sure things were aligned so that when they get to that point where the lights are the brightest, they can keep things simple and really enjoy their experience like, and make the most of it stay connected to the moment.
The, the same things you're hearing the Florida Panthers speak of and their media. Days right now during the Stanley Cup finals are the same kinds of things we preached about managing, like what you can manage in this big world of fast moving parts and so that you can enjoy it and take what you like, get the most out of a free for the team, but also personally.
Jason Jacobs: Well, I also hear different narratives about, about the, the pre puberty era, right? Because on the one hand you, it's like, look, your kid's not going to the show because. If he, [00:13:00] if he was, you would know it because he'd be playing three levels up and it'd be fricking obvious since he was in diapers.
Right. And then the other side, it's like, who cares about what happens at zero to 15? Because everything changes anyways and you have no idea. No one has any idea. And like it, why even bother to have any idea? Just have fun with it because it's all, 'cause, 'cause like the cards aren't gonna sort themselves out until later.
And um, and it's not gonna be based on anything even that you're doing now. So like, those are such opposite extremes, like what's the truth?
Jesse Winchester: The truth lies in the middle somewhere, right? Like I, I can speak to my experience. Personally as a player where if you looked at me at 20 years old, you wouldn't have said I was necessarily an NHL player. Did I have some traits that maybe you could see and, and there's a certain level of potential there, maybe, but I was under the, under the radar of my entire life.
I, and in my coaching experience,
Jason Jacobs: Come on, you were captain of a division one [00:14:00] team. Like that. So I, I guess it's all relative, right?
I mean that's still that I wouldn't call that under the radar.
Jesse Winchester: No, like I actually, it was a very cool experience playing division one hockey, but there's still so many big jumps that ha you have to make in order to get to the next level. So my point in all that is, whenever we sign somebody, or when I, when working, when I did work with the sends, the draft picks or the signs, we can't always tell if they're gonna play in the NHL.
And they're so close to playing in the NHL, so. When you, when you roll that back to kids. Yeah. There's the exceptions. The few that are just so far beyond everyone else that they're given age and and we, they're obvious it doesn't take a, you know, but they still so much has to go right for them as they grow and mature in order to get to the, the NHL most.
They'll be good, really good players. You can't say for sure that they're gonna end up playing because there's just [00:15:00] so much runway between where they're at and where they have to go and, and changing life style stuff behind the scenes, the impact of pressure, the impact of agents, all this noise. And how they are able to handle that as they grow older but it's a great discussion to have and that was part of what was so rewarding in my experience as a, player development coach was trying to find ways to help these.
Players weave it all together and find their way to the NHL.
Jason Jacobs: Okay building off of that. It is unbelievable the level of commitment it takes from parents to shepherd their kids through the journey today. It's a, it's a cost commitment, it's a logistics commitment, it's an education commitment. It's it isn't the player navigating, it's the player and the parent, right?
And given how much travel's involved and how much, what team you're playing on matters and everything else, like it has to be the player on the planet because like a little tyke isn't gonna navigate through that. A [00:16:00] little tyke doesn't have a wallet, you know, a little like the parent has to be involved, right?
For better or for worse, like, you know, like granted there's downsides to that because then it's like, whoa, am I living vicariously or is it my kid's dream? But like, there's kind of no alternative to play the game competitively today. So, so here's my, my question, given that right. Is it healthy for a parent to aspire on behalf of their kid?
Jesse Winchester: Oh my goodness. I, I've seen it go right and I've seen it go wrongly. Just, such great questions again, but I like, I'm not the guy to give you the best answer. I,
Jason Jacobs: I don't, I don't have the answer. Like, I'm a crazy hockey dad. I don't have the answer. Like I, I wrestle with it every day.
Jesse Winchester: Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: I, look, I know my kid's not going to the show for sure. But, uh, but like, that doesn't, even helping them reach their fullest form, it's like, and by the way, not just with athletics, like with, like the schooling path.
It's like, it's like how much structure you provide, how much you let them fall on their own sword [00:17:00] and make their own mistakes. Like how, you know, how you know, is, is helping 'em keep the train on the tracks, you know, be best for their long-term development or detrimental sort, their long-term development.
Like it's kind of all related.
Jesse Winchester: Yeah, it's, I'm going through the same things with my kids. I don't play hockey. I have two young daughters, but the same questions I ask myself every day. And you're getting to the, am I doing it right? Am I being a good parent? I think for me, what comes most naturally is exposing them, giving 'em opportunity to try a ton of different things, almost seeing what sticks and then, you know, empowering them to, to find that path or ex explore on their own first.
And then if it becomes something they really enjoy doing, then I kind of come in the background to fully support, I guess. But. Again, I haven't quite reached that point as minor. Still in like the exploratory, a ton of things coming at them. And that's the approach that my wife and I have taken. [00:18:00] I my parents,
Jason Jacobs: how Jesse, remind me, how old are your girls?
Jesse Winchester: uh, nine and seven.
So one is extremely athletic. Uh, they're, they're both into sports, but one is like a, a really good athlete and there's discussion about how to navigate the next, next steps of their development. And, these conversations we have in the background. And I think there's a definite love of a sport there that we, we see and it's about, and we're having these, these discussions like this week, you know, like it's stuff that goes on day to day in our household and we just like to make a decision that to support while she kind of.
Jumps into this next stage of training and, you know, we're, we're there for her and we will always be there for her, just like all parents we hope will be there for their kids. And bringing that back to my experience, my parents, you know, they, they had [00:19:00] three boys. We all played sports. They did whatever they could possibly to support us, but they didn't, they didn't force us to play.
They, they stressed school first. We've had, we've had to call our coaches to tell them that we couldn't come to practice because we didn't do our school. We didn't live up to the, I guess the background contract that we made in our family to do things a certain way. And, you know, those, it was all about learning for us, learning through experience.
And for me, things just happened at the right time. And hockey kind of became this lifelong obsession and.
Jason Jacobs: And well, and you got a great education in the process
Jesse Winchester: Oh yeah. Yeah. And you know, at the time I, I was just young and naive and probably didn't even realize the quality of education and was just there doing the work and trying to like I love the school part, but I look back more fondly now, like, oh my gosh, everything I was privy to [00:20:00] the, the learning experience outside the rank.
Like very, very fortunate now as I grow older and you know, that, that's just an aside. But it was, yeah, my parents kind of in the background letting us drive, but them kind of not letting us get off the road.
Jason Jacobs: I mean, I'm, even as I'm starting to make the rounds and talked to, more people that have played the game at the highest levels that are now raising kids the differences are stark, right? In some households it's like, hands off and they find their own way and they do what they love and I'm here to support.
And then in other households, it's like I got 'em in skates from the time they were too, and we got this skate, you know, this skating coach and that and this and that and, and it, and it, and it's like when you do that right, it's like, oh, they know no other way and they're just used to it and they fall into the pattern recognition and that's just what they do.
But they didn't have a chance to self-select. Right. And, and so, I talked to a a sports psychologist recently who trains some of the most elite youth players in the game. And of course everyone's gonna [00:21:00] roll their eyes and say, okay, stop with the elite youth players. It's like, whoa, whoa.
Like, 'cause look, everything changes that, but like elite just meaning that like, they're making a lot of sacrifices and doing a lot and showing promise at that point in time, snapshot for whatever they are in their development path, right? But um, but what he said was that, was that there's a stark difference between the amount of dads who think that their kids are doing it 'cause they love it, and then when you talk to the kids without their parents in the room, like the kids that actually love it.
And that, that's really troubling. Right. Um, and, uh, and yet like kids are getting put on the quote unquote serious path before they have the, the mental capacity to determine whether they wanna be on that serious path. So whereas earlier it was like, I feel like growing up, like you ended up on the serious path because it just happened naturally because, I mean, maybe there are stories about the crazy, you know, like, um, you know, the crazy parents who groomed their kids from the youngest ages.
But I [00:22:00] feel like back then it was an anomaly and now it's almost the norm.
Jesse Winchester: Yeah I mean, bringing it back to that book again. Like they, they go into how Tiger Woods became a pro, like this, like through rigid practice from the time he was too. But then it, in contrast, they, they talk about Roger Federer, who was this, the world class tennis player that he is and kind of not really taking it super seriously until, you know, 12, 13, 14 years old and you have two of the very best to ever play their sports arriving at things.
And it just reinforces the, the differences between people and the way they perceive the world. I think like one of the most important conversations I've had with, so some, some military friends who operate at a high level, they, they've all, they, they've used the term, and it may be from a book, but I'm not sure, uh, so from, but they use the term purpose over process.
So they look for people who. [00:23:00] Who have a sense of purpose. So I guess in bringing up our kids, we're trying to let them find a sense of purpose around something, the practice side of it or like the exploration. And then it's on me. After that I can provide the structure and that's just my parenting style.
It's, where I have buddies who have taken a different approach and have raised incredible young players too, like hockey players. And, but, but I, I did, I, I always go back to that conversation how with these guys and, and I, and found it so interesting that the process, yeah, it's the buzzword in, in all these training, it's training jargon, but they, when they select for people, they're looking for people who have that, like a certain level of grit or purpose behind the things that they do when, when trying to identify, talent or.
Potential people that they will work with. So [00:24:00] again, it's like, I just love the, the banter really. Um, and trying to uncover ways to find, you know, a path forward for people given all of our different experience.
Jason Jacobs: Well, I don't wanna, I don't wanna make this about my kid because i'm doing this for the love of the sport and love of athlete development and love and, and loving helping, myself and others reach their fullest form. And that's also what I'm trying to do as a dad. But one of my like my hockey kid, you know, he's a bit confusing, right?
Because because you can take him around to endless stuff, dialed in, fired up, like wagging his tail, incredible work ethic, right? And there's almost, it's almost like, like endless. Like, it, it almost doesn't matter how much you load him up. Like he loves it and he's dialed in and he bust his ass, right?
But then in between at home, if you want him to get, to do stuff in between, right? Like he'll do it when you remind him, right? But he isn't necessarily seeking it out on his own. [00:25:00] And and you can say, well, if you didn't overschedule him so much he would have more time.
But like, I don't actually know if that's true. Like I feel like if the plate was empty, it might be the same. And and that, that's confusing 'cause it's like, well is he self-directed or not? 'Cause it's like, well, bus his butt loves the game fired up whenever you do it, but like, but like, hasn't quite connected the dots about if I want to get to this place, like here's the things that I need to do, more just living in the moment.
So is providing structure for someone like that is it helpful? And he even asked for structure. He's like, you know, if you gimme more structure, I wanna do this stuff, but there's just so many distractions at home. Right. Um, so it's like he's asking for it. Right. But like, is it helpful or harmful to his long-term development to provide it?
Right. Like I don't just wrestle with that for him, I wrestle with that for anything I might build. For others as well, which is why I am pushing on these questions now. 'cause like I don't wanna be part of the problem.
Jesse Winchester: Here's how I'd answer that one. I, I think he, I think [00:26:00] he, just knowing you in the way that I do know you, the limited time that we've had together, you're pretty self-directed, motivated, curious. Hardworking. I think he's going to probably in some ways adopt the good of all those, or take the good in all those traits from you.
And it doesn't have to be
Jason Jacobs: I wasn't like that growing up though.
Jesse Winchester: but
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Jesse Winchester: it doesn't have to. Every little thing, you know, like I think big picture when you. When you, when you're gonna zoom out, your kids are learning from you all the time. And I think by providing them, you know, with a household or the, the way in which you live your life, and they're gonna take the good, you know, and I I, I would imagine being self-directed and self-led, curious, and all these things are gonna transfer to him in time.
And when he, if it's hockey or these business related things that you're able to, build [00:27:00] out of nothing, he will find his way. And I think that's the whole point of sport. And, parenting in the end, like, and, and hopefully they have a great experience in doing all the, these things.
Jason Jacobs: Well, here's I was kind of directionless when I was young and I still regret that now that I'm older. And and so I'm trying to do it differently with my kids. But I think we might have talked about this in one of our discussions, Jesse, but but it's almost like, if I had more framework and pushing or whatever when I was young and the wheels stayed better on the tracks, would it have actually muted my ambition when the switch flipped on my own later on?
Maybe. So it's it, it's almost like, um, like by, by providing that right, are you helping to instill long-term habits and, and, uh, and make sure that the train stays on the tracks and that they're not gonna look back with regrets because they held it together and learn what success feels like and equate hard work and process with results and [00:28:00] Right.
That all that's positive, right? But it's like, if you're providing it externally, are you inhibiting them from learning how to, you know, from finding their own way to providing it on their own. Right. And I really don't know.
Jesse Winchester: You're asking the wrong guy. But like I will say that going back to the player development side of my career, it was sometimes exciting when you had a kid who was still raw, like at 18 years old, who didn't. And, and you don't expect anyone to have it all figured out, but it, it just meant that there was potentially more room to grow.
And when they, when you match that with. Certain skills and physical traits and a willingness to, to meet you halfway and learn it, it provides for an exciting kind of trajectory. And sometimes it happens, you know, when the kid's leaving college at 20 or 21 and they're, they think they're going right to the NHL and it takes another two years.
But it's, it's, it's about all the things coming together just at, at a right time that then you can, you know, in the [00:29:00] case of the NHL as a, as a player, capitalize on for yourself, but then also just the life experience you get from playing in that league. And like the ability just to, you don't have to have it all figured out to, to, to still to make it work.
You know? I don't think there's a perfect player out there. And it was just exciting to see sometimes those kids who may have been lesser priority kind of find their way.
Jason Jacobs: So I wanna ask you this then. Um, you, you kind of lit up when I started telling you about this area that I'm focused on and you're excited about the possibilities. I don't wanna put words in your mouth, but you've told me offline that you're excited about the possibilities of what I might build here.
So I, I wanna ask you this multiple ways. I wanna ask you like, what kind of platform would, you know, like what should I build here? Right? But I also wanna ask it through the lens of one you've been through the [00:30:00] development path too. You've helped others. Through the development path. Three, you have two girls who are gymnasts and they also are different from each other.
Given all of that yeah, like what is it that you're envisioning when you, when you light up thinking about you know, something filling a void, like what is the void that you see being filled and, and how.
Jesse Winchester: Man, how much time do we have? So I, I'll say it, I'll begin it with this. This is my first winter where I've been on the ice with young kids and I've loved the experience. I was offered a, to help out with, alongside like the send Sense skate coach who's, who's done a great job with, sends players, sends prospects, but also has her own business beyond the sends.
Uh, we worked together closely in our time with the sends and she brought me on board without having really ever skated with kids. So it was, my eyes were opened. From day one, and it was slow a couple [00:31:00] times, but I kept, I kept coming back and I've really, really loved it. And what, what I've seen is just so much emphasis on like the skill, which is, which is great.
And even in the drills that I've, I've run, but then when you offer some kind of competition or gameplay scenario where they're playing against their friends, they light up. So in building the next phase of your model, maybe it's, it's emphasizing that, the incorporating skill and all the things that we want, but, but then also that component of whether it's compete or play, where they're being creative, it's creativity and it's, it's learning while doing that's what excites me because I see their faces light up when you suggest, oh, do you wanna play this game?
And it's not, it's not a hockey game, but it's just any kind of, tag or, you know, and, and I think it's something at a young age [00:32:00] that we have to always remind ourselves of why we played first and foremost.
Jason Jacobs: Gosh. It's kind of what I'm about to say is kind of sad, but I'm gonna try to say it anyways. It seems like growing up you knew that if someone was playing there was joy and now we've so manufactured the process, right. That you, you don't actually know like where the joy is and we've layered in development.
Without factoring in joy. Um, and so essentially, it sounds like what I'm hearing from you is we need to find a way to take these components of development now that everyone's on the development path from a young age. Right. And reinsert joy. At least as it relates to, and, and you can do that in person because it's like, oh, well, like in the in-person skills, like, okay, we're gonna incorporate pucks and we're gonna incorporate goalies and we're gonna incorporate compete.
Right. And we're gonna [00:33:00] incorporate, three on three, small sheet you know, small sheet gameplay and, and stuff like that. So there's ways to do that in person, but when it comes to the home stuff, it's like, all right, get out the agility ladder. Go shoot 500 pucks, right?
Uh, like it's like. It's like flossing your teeth, right? It's like, um, it's like, it, it's like doing your homework. Like it's, it's not packaged in a way that's fun. So essentially taking like your vegetables essentially and delivering them in a recipe that's actually delicious for forgetting about whether it's healthy.
Like, it sounds like that's what you're saying. Is that right?
Jesse Winchester: Yeah. Yeah, I guess so.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, because we can't, you can't just go out and do free range play because it, that doesn't exist. Maybe in some parts of the world in little pockets, but like, I mean, that's how my neighborhood was growing up. Like all the kids were just playing out, playing every sport all the time. Like they're not.
Jesse Winchester: Yeah. Like I, [00:34:00] I think, I mean, again, just going off of personal experience again, but I was excited to play growing up because like you just received fulfillment from being with your buddies, being, making plays, competing together. Trying to win games and recognition that yes, all these skills are so important.
If your end goal is to, climb and be elite and be an NHL player and it, it takes everything. But I think the most important thing for me is that intrinsic motivation to play, which is what I see when, when you offer up a gameplay scenario where kids just light up and go at it, like it's different.
They, they, they're able to work through the drills, they're able to do everything and they, they, they're great, but it's the smile. As soon as you're like, oh, you wanna play one on one, or do you wanna play, crossbar, post, whatever, do you want to play two on one [00:35:00] game or, and it's just like automatic.
Yes, let's play.
Jason Jacobs: But, but the, but this kind of pisses me off because because there's this narrative, right? That like, if your kid is in psych to get home and go to a dingy basement and shoot 500 pucks, then they don't love the game. Right? And it's like, actually if there was just, you know, if I lived in a part of the world like you did growing up where it was like, negative degrees for months at a time, and there were always a zillion kids out playing hockey, right?
Like, do I worry that my son, well, of course he'd be out there not, and I would not have to ever tell him once. Right? So it, it's almost like, like it's not fair to like, yes, certain kids are wired in a way where like they're gonna go and do that stuff, i, but even then though, I wonder are those kids that are posting clips of themselves doing that every day?
Like, you know, are they actually doing that because they're choosing to do it? Or are they doing it because dad's standing there with a camera telling 'em that they have to, you
Jesse Winchester: Who know?
Jason Jacobs: I don't know.
Jesse Winchester: But I did not [00:36:00] feel like doing things every day. And I needed to take a step back, you know, at different times in my life and career to kind of refine or rediscover that, you know, the love of things. Like even going through leaving my most current role with the stems, there's a little bit of like a lull after where I don't feel like being involved in hockey right now.
But then you rediscover that. You can't just do it every day around the clock. Like we aren't robots. But the people who do love it are able to find ways and prioritize it as they grow and find ways to enjoy the mundane. I think but I didn't wanna shoot pox every single day of my life.
Whenever, you know, it's beautiful outside and I have other friends and other activities going on and, uh, my kid, my parents respected that. But they also were real in teaching me like, look, you have this goal, this dream, and we're here for it. [00:37:00] But know that there's someone out there who's just as good as you, who is spending that time doing these things, and then they will get better in time if they stick to it and you decide not to, if you guys, talent levels are equal.
So if you have this goal, make sure that you're doing the things that you can to make it happen. If that's, if what you're saying is what you want to live.
Jason Jacobs: Those are the kinds of discussions that, that we have too. We, we talk about we talk about how, hey, like, you know, over the past few years, bud, you've been doing all this stuff and you know, I've been out. Laying it out for you. And you know, when you complain, we dial it back and you almost never complain.
I know you love it, right? Um, but, uh, but like in the next few years, dude, like, you know, you're gonna have to start taking the reins and I'm not gonna force you like you're gonna, it's, you know, 'cause I'm not gonna be around like, you're gonna be the captain of your own ship and you're gonna decide what things I seek out and, and what I don't.
And, and by the way, you don't need to play at the highest levels of the game, bud. You [00:38:00] don't need to put it on hockey. But if you aspire to take it as far as you can, right? It's ultra competitive and these are the things that you would need to do to get to where you wanna go. But ultimately you need to decide where you wanna go.
And if you wanna go in a different direction, that's fine too, buddy. But I just don't want you to be blindsided. Like, just understand that every decision you make has implications.
Jesse Winchester: of course.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, but it's, uh, it's hard. And then, you tell that to a 13-year-old and, and, and like, and, and you hope that they're listening and, and internalizing it deeply.
And then what you get back is, could I play Xbox? Yeah. It's like, oh man. Wait, what'd you just say? I was just, you know, thinking, thinking about like my Brawl Stars score or something, you know? And it's like, oh man, come on dude, you're killing me.
Jesse Winchester: Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: Now there's another narrative I wanted to pull on, which is that, there's this kind of narrative that the, with the rise of skill coaches that the game is getting so much more skilled at the youth level.
Um, and with the [00:39:00] rise of social media, right? That, you know, a lot of kids are spending less time watching full games and more time watching the clip of this Michigan or, um, you know, watching this kid, you know, dance through four, four players on the other team and, and, and go bar down or, or, or whatever, right?
And so the skill level's been rising, but hockey IQ has been suffering. What, what is your assessment of the state of the state there? Um, and you know, of course then we can talk about what to do about it. But before we even get to that, just like, what, what are you seeing?
Jesse Winchester: Uh, I,
I think the game is way more skilled. Uh, I think the guys work at their craft and have more access to more resources on that side of it. You know, I remember a few clips from John Tortorella that went viral talking about. How the game has, or the league has become a dumb league and people are, players are more entitled and because they have these entourages around [00:40:00] them that kind of, build expectation to how things go without necessarily having to learn to take your turn within the team.
I think the game is great. I, I love it. I'm a diehard fan in the NHL playoffs right now. They're smart, they're dialed in. Like they, they operate within the system that the, the team wants to play, but they also, there's more guys with more game breaking skill, which makes, when there is a breakdown, they're just that much better at exposing it.
I think so. I think there is hockey iq. I don't think guys are necessarily, I, I don't think the old guard was necessarily smarter. I think the game was probably a bit slower. I think there. It was, it was more I just find it hard to believe that if all the skill is getting better, that understanding isn't too, having put that to flip it [00:41:00] again, like, I don't know the answer.
If you're so just focused on pure skill and you're not surround yourself with gameplay setting, then yeah, you're, you're not learning to read learning to deceive on the ice, learning to see layers learning to play within the context of a team. But at the top level, I think it's, the, the game is incredible and I, I don't, I don't think I, I don't think it's, uh, there's a lack of hockey ike here in the NHL, like they're, they're, they're exceptional maybe as it trickles down.
But again, I'm, I haven't been around that and enough to, to see. Everybody's learning all the time, whether it's the skill, they're all these imperfect or unfinished products, and we'll see. And when they end up getting to the top level, the game is so good. Like I, I don't see a really, as a lack of iq maybe[00:42:00]
Jason Jacobs: Uh, maybe I'll ask it a different way. So, a lot of parents cart their kids around and focus on skill development. You know, they're getting stronger, they're getting faster. They're, you know, they're getting better with their edge work. They're they're working on their shooting form. They're working on they're, they're, they're working on what else are they working on?
You know, they're, they're playing in lots of tournaments and, and, uh, you know, playing with different kids at. Different ability levels and and, and things like that. What they aren't doing as much is actually watching video.
Jesse Winchester: I see where.
Jason Jacobs: yeah. So for example, coaches will try to, you know, it's like, Hey, we'll do a video session at the rink and, you know, everyone get there 20 minutes early and then all the parents are like, dude, I, I wasn't even sure if I was gonna be able to, you know, it's like two hours in rush hour, buddy.
Like, I need, I, I, I can't, I'm already leaving work two hours before I should, like, another 20 minutes actually matters, right? And then it's like, does this rink even have av? Right? Um, and you know, and, and it's like, oh, the WiFi's down, right? And uh, and [00:43:00] then it's like you get everyone together and it's like, alright, there's like 20 people in a room and then everyone's goofing off and having trouble paying attention and, you know, the coach might full pull, pull you, but like it's, um, the coach is doing everything in their power and bending over backwards. Right? And, and most of these youth coaches, like, don't get paid a dime, right? And, and so like, it's no fault of the coach, but it's like, ideally I think, you know what? Well, more than me, but it would benefit the kid to go through and like actually review what they've been doing in games and then make them teachable moments.
Like, Hey, oh, that decision making there I really like, and over here that wasn't a bad decision, but there's a few others you might've considered. Right? Um, and maybe in this one it would've been a lower risk play. It worked out in the end, but I don't know if I would do that again in that, in that same situation, probability wise, um, and, and, and, and stuff like that.
And and you know, but there's just, you know, there's not enough. Bandwidth for that. And then so the dad will try, right? The dad will go and like pull the clips, right. But like, um, you know, [00:44:00] I played the game through like, I stumbled, I quit partway into sophomore year division, division three.
Like, I barely, but like still that's a lot more than a lot of the dads, right? And I'm like, I don't know. Like I watch these clips and I'm like, you know, like, uh, I'll try to give you feedback, dude, but like, I don't even really know what I'm talking about. And so it's like, imagine if you're like all these guys that never played the game at all, right?
Do you think that something in, in that direction would be, and by the way, actually it's a run on question here, but it doesn't even necessarily need to be your shifts. Like what about just watching an NHL game, watching a college game and, and pointing that stuff out with a trained eye, right?
Is there anything over there that would be valuable for these kids coming up, coming up? And if so, what?
Jesse Winchester: Oh man.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Jesse Winchester: again, just simplifying, like looking at the course this season maybe, and looking at where you can have the biggest impact. So finding the few things that you can reinforce in the very few, or in the very few [00:45:00] instances that you're gonna be able to provide video for your team at the youth level.
So for me, off the top of my head, it would be things like in transition when the puck turns over, making sure each kid is taking three hard strides so that we're like, when a puck goes from side to like end to end, it's like that change is where a lot of good or bad can happen. A rush the other way.
So it's reinforcing that. So if you're watching video, but I, I'd work on that in practice. I, I I don't think I would be a coach the level over coaching, like crazy structure. You know, I, I, I had the experience of coaching junior a, which is basically a feeder to the ncaa. And I walked in the first day with no prior experience and I was ready to do my N-H-L-P-K that I played within this.
And the kids weren't at that time ready to, or they weren't at a level where they could [00:46:00] process all the little things that. Went into it. That's not to say they weren't great players, but it was a, it was a way of teaching the game more simply to emphasize the most important parts, which in our system was pressure of ice.
I couldn't expect them to have perfect sticks 'cause I didn't have a perfect stick my own my entire life. But I, but I could explain to them when they needed to be more aware of potential risky situations on the ice and it, but it was taking that longer view. I, I couldn't expect everybody to learn and listen in the first video session.
And it was just highlighting three or four things that I could take through the year that would really benefit us come the spring when the playoffs rolled around it. And that's the best answer I have. To that question, and you could take it a million different ways, but I think simple is key because the game is just so reactive and.
[00:47:00] Fast pace. And as you learn that iq, there are certain small details that can give you an advantage. And then as you progress through the levels, you can stack and have the little intricacies of the game that you see in like the, the Stanley Cup finals right now.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, so if we just role play for a minute. If you were sitting here and you went and you said, and you, and you thought like, what are the biggest things about hockey IQ that, like the kids coming up don't know that I think would be useful for them to know, and you went and found clips of examples of it pulled them, organized them, taught a Zoom class with you and 10 kids on Zoom. Can hockey IQ be taught in, in that format or in another format off the ice, in between ice sessions in a way that would actually be beneficial for the kids and beneficial for the game?
Jesse Winchester: Yeah, of course I can, I, um. Yeah, and I, [00:48:00] oh man. It's a lot to think about in,
Jason Jacobs: Because that, because that's a very different direction than like, uh, l package, stills training in a way that's fun, right? But, you know, we haven't chosen a path yet. We're, um, pushing on these different areas and, and then, I mean, I have even other paths I could run by you that we're considering here, but, um, but, but the hockey IQ one is, is interesting because the skills, like, you know, there's no substitute for in person and you can have like a, a replica that's better than nothing at home, but it's not gonna be as good as in person.
Whereas like the hockey iq, like, you know, maybe off ice is actually a better format to teach than on the ice. I don't know.
Jesse Winchester: yeah. All great stuff. I, it goes back to the individual learner again, I, the IQ I would try to teach is just having that idea for how you, you want to have your team play as a team. In March or April or whenever playoffs start. And then [00:49:00] as the coach, again, just finding those, the core things and, and then realizing that they're, they're going
realizing that they can, that there's only a certain amount that you're gonna add, but the most important things are like the, the ability to play free. So you don't want them overthinking in instances. So, um, taking a longer view on the kid, putting them in situations where they, they will fail and then explaining it to them, but not mess, but reinforcing that you still have faith in them to be able to handle those situations when the lights get brighter in March and April.
So that's, that's how I would teach it. Letting go of the, the fear of failure really, and, and just coaching through that, just being open. That, that's my philosophy when I, you know, sit down with kids doing video, just making sure you're ready to handle the next time these things happen and, and understanding why it's important to [00:50:00] add this to your, your, your toolkit.
I,
Jason Jacobs: Why are agents building up their player development functions and, and, and what does player development mean in that context?
Jesse Winchester: Hockey's big business and, you're having, you, you're agents are identifying talent and potential pros in and around that, 15, 14 to 17 year range before you're drafted to the NHL where you're then passed off to player development coaches involved with those teams.
So in trying to prep them. Agents do a really good job at prepping them for the draft in certain ways, by providing experiences to help them mature more quickly. But in terms of gameplay, understanding and these other things, they, they've, they're building out departments to kind of help a player who's not yet drafted understand more holistically how to attack [00:51:00] their, the next four or five years of their, you know, journey and hockey.
Jason Jacobs: Do, do you think that type of value prop would be helpful or hurtful to open up to others who aren't top draft prospects, but might be serious about their own development paths?
Jesse Winchester: Well, that's where I think you have such a, intriguing kind of vision or case is, and I don't know how it works or how it presents, but
Jason Jacobs: Me neither. Which has frustrated the hell outta me. Yeah.
Jesse Winchester: providing access to those, to those tools for kids who are hungry and wanting to, build their games and enjoy that side of it is a, is a very, it's a very, very cool project or very cool concept to, to build up.
Jason Jacobs: I mean, the [00:52:00] issue though is that you know, you're largely I think selling to parents, right? And then the question is is whatever you're providing going to be a healthy form of development or further exacerbate the problems? Right? And, and that's, that's really what I'm pushing on.
Like, my son or other 13 year olds like him who are playing the game, at a more competitive level, but like I. Not about to, get chipped off to live with some billet family at 14, not about to put playing in the juniors ahead of their academic path. Not about, you know, like, there's just, let, and he can chart his own path, but like, most likely not going to, most likely this is about life lessons and learning how to achieve mastery somewhere and about memories more than it's about earning a living, playing the game, right?
Yeah. And, and so for, for those kinds of kids, is the best path, hands off, right? Is the best path, like providing resources and structure and if it's providing resources and structure, is [00:53:00] it best to come from the parent, right? And if the answer is, it depends. Well, it depends. Did the parent play in the NHL?
Or, or does the parent, never play a sport in his life and wants to support the kid, but doesn't know anything about the game and is try to learn it on the fly and try and just competing with the Joneses because he doesn't know what else to do. Right. Um, and so my thought is for that parent is there a healthier way that can almost like, relieve the parent of feeling that accountability and being reckless, right?
And actually providing more sanity to the, to, to, to the process, right? And I, I don't know what that means, but that, I guess like what would be, like, what would you build if you were building something for that kid? And I, and I know your girls are younger, so maybe you don't know yet.
Jesse Winchester: But you're like, what I appreciate is you're so thoughtful about it, taking in, you know, so many different ideas and not necessarily opinions or viewpoints, but just getting an entire lay of the land. And then I think you're well on your way to finding [00:54:00] something that, you know, does a ton of good for a ton of kids and providing access to parents and kids.
Could you do it for gymnastics? Like, 'cause I know nothing about it, you know, like, it's like, but I, but if my kid does end up loving this, then I will need help, you know, so I can put myself in that seat where I have no experience in it. And I just wanna see my kid be challenged and enjoy rising to the challenge and, but I also know what good coaching is.
So, I think you're, you're on your way to doing that because you're so open-minded to, to building like a thing that treats people the right way.
Jason Jacobs: We'll see. I mean, my buddy sense as a dad and as a founder is like, this is fertile ground. This is fertile ground, right? And then I'm talking a lots of smart, well-placed people like you, and it's unbelievable the batting [00:55:00] average of these fancy people that are like, I wanna be involved in some way.
This is awesome. I love that you're doing this. There's so much room here. And like, I feel that way. You feel that way, they feel that way. And then it's like, well, what the f is it? No answers, right? Yeah. So, i, yeah.
Jesse Winchester: Yes.
Jason Jacobs: No, I am, I'm confident we were gonna sort through it, but I'm just impatient as all hell.
'Cause and I, and also I think I'm afraid to just get it wrong. Right? Uh, you know, I don't, I don't wanna, I don't, I don't want to end up putting, putting capitalism at odds with. The best path for the kids, right? And, and that is I mean, it's kind of like climate change, where capitalism and the energy transition are aligned.
It's good for everybody when capitalism and what's best for the long-term interests of the planet and the people on it are at odds, right? Then it's like, you're, you're on borrowed time, right? And I, I feel like in some ways hockey's on a similar path, right? Like there's, there's some elements of it where it's aligned, where it's like, oh, the fact that it's [00:56:00] privatized, it adds the skill level.
It provides more resources. It creates more opportunities. It creates more memories. It, more opportunities to see the world, more friendships, more exposed to different people in different parts of the world with different, like, you can go on and on, right? Um, but then it's like, alright, but like leads to burnout, leads to overspecialization, leads to overuse injuries, leads to doing something to please others.
Versus fi figuring out what makes you happy, right? And so, what's the truth, right? And yeah, maybe I'm just thinking too much.
Yeah.
Jesse Winchester: but I appreciate it and I, I do see the, I do see the way you were thinking about it and the way you kind of explore your journey with MCJ or you opened up your journey in that way considering a wide range of things. And looking at the best way to, to make sense of it for you. And I think it comes back to that with hockey.
It, it's gonna be, we, there's a goal, an end goal for a lot of people, but we [00:57:00] all have, and I've said it, countless times already, but just those different experiences and resources and trying to find a way to mesh all those things together. And so that in the end, when you leave that game, you've enjoyed your experience and it's helped you for the next stage of your life, which in, in my case, hockey has.
And that's why I enjoyed working with kids to give back and, and hopefully help in some way, shape their experience so that they leave the game, hap like with, with a ton of good.
Jason Jacobs: Maybe I'll ask one last question, which is just in your own development path as you were coming up, do you look back and, and wish that there was, like what resources do you wish were available to you that weren't, or, or, um, yeah, to the extent
That you have 'em.
Jesse Winchester: I, I don't have to look very far down the road then to, to see the person that I am able to get on the ice with. Now, [00:58:00] I would've really benefited from a, from, from private skating lessons, to be quite honest. Like my skate, I had a lot of power and I was a very hard worker, but not an efficient skater, even at the at the NHL level.
So a lot of my energy was wasted trying to get around the ice. And when you're wasting, or when you're expending so much energy there, I think you're less able to slow things down potentially in your mind. But, so that, that's one of the skills that. As a kid, I wish I could have become more efficient as a skater if I could roll back the clock.
Um, but, you know, I, I maxed out my, you know, my abilities, I think, and given what was available to me and the, the resources I had at my disposal. And, but, and it was at a time when there wasn't a, there wasn't access the same way, not in my hometown anyway. Um, and I loved [00:59:00] living where, where like, I loved growing up and having that space between being on the ice every day and living rurally and enjoying like the outdoor, the, the, the break in in sport.
Jason Jacobs: Well, we're showered with resources here in the New England area, but the skating, there's some great skating coaches, but but yet, everyone I know is seeking because all the great ones aren't impossible to book with. So it seems like there's a supply and demand mismatch. And so that Yeah, I, I just, I don't know why that is given how much, how many skills coaches there are for every other kind of skill, uh, yeah. It's like why is, why is skating such a gap and, and what can be done to make the best skating instruction available to more people? Like, it's, it almost seems like solving that would be more compelling than any digital platform.
Jesse Winchester: And you just look at the McDavid and the guys who can get around the ice the easiest, and then they're just, the game just looks easier, and
Jason Jacobs: But are, are [01:00:00] they born with it or not? Or, or does that come from the right instruction?
Jesse Winchester: some, some guys have it, other guys learn it, and I. I've been lucky throughout the course of this winter to see kids improve so much. You know, like, and I had no expectation or no idea what I was going to witness by helping out on the ice here, but it over the course of five, six months and it, it's not all like this, but when, when they get something and it clicks and they enter like a new st stage of their plane development, it's really nice to see.
So, again, I, I wish that if I, if I was growing up today and given the skills that I would have, that would be one area where I'd, be spending my resources and my time and effort.
Jason Jacobs: What's next for you, Jesse? What are you up to now and what do you wanna be up to?
Jesse Winchester: That's a great question. You know, I I did leave the sends [01:01:00] last year and. Part of it, looking for just a different challenge, I think. I'm not sure where that ends up. I've enjoyed like a winter and spring of a little bit different pace. I've really loved being a fan of the game again introducing my kids to that side of it by taking 'em to games.
But I don't have like a real answer. I, you know, I, I like to work with good people, motivated people and, but I don't have, I don't have a clear vision just yet of where I'm gonna end up.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, do you think it'll be in the game in some way?
Jesse Winchester: I think I will always maintain some kind of hint paw or foot in the game. But it's about trying to find that balance, uh, between, you know, my other interests, my family life and, you know, and that, and that's always changing too. And, you know, I do love coaching, so. We will, we'll see where it ends up.
But I'm lucky to be in a great place in Ottawa, have my health [01:02:00] and, you know, look forward to, you know, things outside the game too right now.
Jason Jacobs: And, and Jesse speak to speak to all the hockey parents out there for a minute or, or any players that might be listening. What advice do you have for them as they head out on their own development journeys?
Jesse Winchester: I just steal it from my parents. I guess that's the, the two words, or three or four words that, you know, have always stood the test of time for me. And it's just work hard and have fun. Place those at the center of your, your hockey journey. And just keep the focus simple and, and enjoy, try to make as many friends as you can.
Try to just enjoy your, I want, I want kids to leave the game having a great experience like I had. So, you know, the simpler it was in my case. The, the better the outcome. That's not to say it's like that for everybody, but it worked in my, my case and I go back to that in pretty much everything that I, that I begin to chase down.
So[01:03:00]
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, well, I mean, it's uh, it's just good sound, rational advice, which you know, which seems obvious when you say it, but it's amazing how easy it is to forget when you're, uh. You know, when you're kind of in the, in the thick of it. Well thanks Jesse, for coming on. I, I really appreciate learning more about your journey and your thoughts on, on the sport.
I, I have more questions than answers about my own stuff, but but like you said, I'm, I'm confident those answers will present in the coming weeks and months, and it's super helpful just to talk through and do some brainstorming with you. So thanks again.
Jesse Winchester: I felt like there was a lot of talking through stuff. I don't know if it was, if I had much in the way of, uh, real answers for you, but I, I do love the back and forth and I love, you know, entertaining. Um, I. So many different kind of pathways and ideas and you know, I, I wish you well and I think, uh, you're on the right track to building something cool, just
Jason Jacobs: thanks. Well, when I have more specifics on what I'm actually, you know, when we're about to get serious,
Jesse Winchester: yeah.
Jason Jacobs: I'm gonna come back and talk to you and get some real feedback. So thanks, Jesse. Best of luck to
Jesse Winchester: Yeah. Thank you.