In this episode of The Next Next, host Jason Jacobs interviews Ben Blumenrose, the co-founder and managing partner at Designer Fund. They discuss Ben's background as a designer with experience at Facebook, Varien, and CBS, and his current focus on investing in tech companies that use design to improve health, sustainability, and prosperity. The conversation delves into how AI is transforming the field of design, equipping young designers with new tools to rapidly prototype and create products. They also cover the evolving roles of designers, engineers, and product managers, and the potential of AI to reduce the capital intensity of startups. Ben emphasizes the need for designers to rise to the moment and leverage AI to drive innovation and better products. The discussion ends with insights on how Designer Fund is adapting AI tools internally and Ben's rallying cry for embracing experimentation and action in the design community.
Harnessing AI in Design: A Journey with Ben Blumenrose from Designer Fund
In this episode of 'The Next Next,' host Jason Jacobs interviews Ben Blumenrose, co-founder and managing partner at Designer Fund. They explore how AI is revolutionizing design and shortening the product development cycle. Ben shares his journey from design lead at Facebook to investing in early-stage tech companies focusing on health, sustainability, and prosperity. He discusses the evolution of design tools, the impact of AI on entry-level design jobs, and the importance of speed and quality in product development. The conversation also delves into the convergence of engineering, design, and product management roles and the importance of fostering more design founders in the AI age. Tune in for insightful discussions on building ambitious companies, leveraging AI tools, and the future of design.
00:00 Introduction to Ben Blumenrose and Designer Fund
00:42 The Evolution of Design and AI's Impact
01:16 The Next Next: A Learning Journey
01:56 Ben Blumenrose's Background and Career
03:21 AI's Role in Modern Design
06:19 The Changing Landscape of Design Education
26:10 The Rise of Design Founders
31:12 The Rise of Design in Startups
31:31 Challenges Faced by Designer Founders
31:49 The Impact of Design on Company Success
32:42 Convincing Investors About Design
34:34 The Role of Designers in AI
38:05 The Future of Product Development
41:27 The Evolution of Design and Engineering Roles
43:57 New Tools and Processes in Design
47:54 Building Software Faster Than Searching
51:23 Implications for Venture Capital
57:42 Leveraging Tools at Designer Fund
59:32 Encouragement for Designers and Tinkerers
01:02:11 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Jason Jacobs: Today on The Next Next, our guest is Ben Blumenrose, co-founder and managing partner at Designer Fund. Designer Fund invests in early stage tech companies that use design to improve health, sustainability, or prosperity for all people. And Ben grew up as a designer. Uh, he was previously design lead at Facebook for over five years.
Where he helped build products for nearly a billion people and grow Facebook's world class design team. And he was also the design director at Varien, which he helped build into one of the world's leading e-commerce firms and a designer at CBS where he designed many of their primetime show web experiences.
I've also seen Ben recently talking a lot about the future of design and how AI is changing the game and how. Ben would love to see more design founders and that AI is giving them their moment to do so. Uh, and we cover all of that and [00:01:00] more in this episode. It's a great discussion. It's a good follow up on the one I had with Jeremy Crane recently talking about the product process and how that's evolving with ai.
Now, we did the same thing for Design. Hope you enjoy it. But before we get started.
I'm Jason Jacobs, and this is The Next Next. It's not really a show, it's more of a learning journey to explore how founders can build ambitious companies while being present for family and not compromising flexibility and control, and also how emerging AI tools can assist with that. Each week we bring on guests who are at the tip of the spear on redefining how ambitious companies get built, and selfishly the goal is for this to help me better understand how to do that myself.
While bringing all of you along for the ride, not sure where this is gonna go, but it's gonna be fun.
Okay, Ben Blumenrose, welcome to the show.
Ben Blumenrose: [00:02:00] Awesome. Thank you.
Jason Jacobs: It's funny, uh, when I, uh, reached out to you about the possibility of coming on the show, neither one of us could remember if we've met before, because it, it feels like we know each other, but yet I don't think that we've ever actually met in real life.
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah, and I think I have a, I have a good reason for that since I listened to hundreds of hours of your voice, so I, I think I, I, I have a, a good reason for feeling that way. I don't know what your excuse is though,
Jason Jacobs: that is a weird, a weird, I mean, uh, um. Certainly, uh, I am not a podcaster with any kind of big following by, um, conventional media standards, but within my own weird little world, right. I, I kind of carve carved out a lane. Um, and, and there's information asymmetry there that is, uh, hard, hard to describe where, because these are, it's also, it's not really a package polished style.
It's more like, like, it's just [00:03:00] what you see is what you get long form. Right. So you, you tend to get to know someone pretty well if you, if you tune in enough.
Ben Blumenrose: That's right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Jason Jacobs: But anyway, I was psyched to have you on because, uh, well, I mean to, to be honest for, for more than one reason. But, um, uh, you, you've been writing about.
Uh, how AI is transforming design, and you're a long time designer who now has a, a heavy design thesis in your professional investment activities. Um, and I recently did an episode with, uh, my friend Jeremy Crane, who's another Boston guy who's a long time, uh, product leader. And he's also been digging with AI and he taught a Reforge course.
And, and, and it, and so we talked on that episode about, well, what has the product process been? And then what have you been learning about ai and then how do you think it's gonna transform [00:04:00] the product process? And I thought it'd be really interesting to have a similar type of discussion about design.
Ben Blumenrose: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Happy to.
Jason Jacobs: yeah.
Well for starters, maybe just talk a bit about the designer fund and about you. And, um, I'm intentionally giving you no more guardrails in that so that you can take it wherever you want to take it.
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah. And I, I think it's good to kind of like root some of this stuff in history because, um, what's happening now, it fee for a lot of people it feels like existential. It feels like, oh my God, this is the most, this is the most, the craziest, the, the, the, the, and you're like, Hmm, not really. Like, you know.
Yes. And like, this has happened a couple times, uh, especially if you're like old enough in the design world. So I'm 46.
Jason Jacobs: I kind of feel that way about fascism too. Not to, not to digress. It's like I, it's like the world is ending, the world's ending. It's like, look, there's definitely some things to be concerned about, but like, it's not like we haven't been here before, uh, as a country, like our country's gone through some [00:05:00] shit.
So, you know.
Ben Blumenrose: yeah, we can,
Jason Jacobs: Maybe do that.
Ben Blumenrose: we can definitely go into the fascism, uh, route, but before, yeah, before we get, before we get derailed on that, on that front. Um, so yeah, so like, look, um, I I like came up like when, you know, computers were just getting invented when I was a kid. Like literally like, you know, when, when I started, like my first computer was an Apple two c really couldn't do that much.
Um,
Jason Jacobs: That was the one, uh, load runner. Was the load runner on
Ben Blumenrose: Load runner and logo. You. So logo is good. You know, for the old hats around where it's like, you could be like, move forward 40 pixels, move right? 10 pixel and you can draw like little drawings that way. That was like my first design program was like a triangle that you coded, you know?
So it's like, uh, and it you coded it, right? So it's like designers code. Well, it's like if you're old enough, like that was the, how you got started, right? Um, so computers got invented and to me it was like, you know, I was the artistic kid and all of a sudden, uh, you could do [00:06:00] computers and art together. Um, and it was so much more interesting than just like, regular.
And I was just like, yeah, this is definitely what I wanna do. I wanna like tinker on these things. I wanna live and, and create stuff on these things. I could create stuff and it goes to people all over the world. Like I was just like hooked from a very young age. Um, but so what I studied design at UCLA, um, in 97 to oh one, some of my classmates literally didn't know how to use computers, you know, so you think about design, it's like, so what design was then?
And it's like we all submitted fine art portfolios, you know, paintings, drawings, whatever. And the idea was like, oh, we'll teach them computers. It's like,
Jason Jacobs: I, I got outta school in 98 and, um, I, whenever I had to write a paper, I went to the computer lab and my, my parents offered, they were like, you want a computer in your dorm? And I was like, nah.
Ben Blumenrose: That's for the rich kids. We don't need that. What do I need a computer in my room for? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like, you know, we, I, I knew people were [00:07:00] like, Hey, how do you, how do you launch an app? Like how do you open a Photoshop? How do you do, you know? I was like, wait a second, this is crazy. You got into this program.
You dunno how to use Photoshop. But it's like, but they could, you know, paint photo realistic drawings of, of things. So, and it was around that era as computers were going out, there were people in design who were like. Uh, oh. I'm not learning that. Like, you know, this is a fad or like, this is not the way, this is not the real, you know, real craftspeople don't use computers.
We use our hands. Right? And so the parallels between, it's like, Hey, real craftspeople, don't use ai. It's like the same thing again. It's like, it kind of rhyming, right?
Jason Jacobs: It's probably, it's pro. I'm not a, I'm not a, I'm not a pure cyclist. I mean icy. I cycle sometimes, but I would imagine that the pure cyclists probably say that about the electric bikes. Yeah. Like that's not
Ben Blumenrose: That's not real. That's not real biking. Yeah. Yeah. You're assisted. It's like, God, you know, well, the bike is, it's like the bike is the assisting, right? The bike. The bike is helping you. You know, it's [00:08:00] also, it's funny, like also like, uh, my dad who's a ob, GYN and my older brother, like, um.
You know, it's like people who want like a natural birth, it's like, okay, you natural birth is like, there's levels of natural, like how natural do you want it? Do you want it like in the backyard, like on a, on the grass? Like that's natural, right? So it's like, yeah, it's the same thing. So anyhow, so we, um, so I, I come outta school and you know, there's all these people who like, don't wanna do computer, but if you knew how to use computers, there's a huge advantage.
'cause like, that's kind of where, where the world was going. And then in my first job I was like, oh, it's not just computers, it's the internet. Let's move things to the internet, right? Let's start, we need websites and things like that. And my first job, I was actually let go, uh, of that job. It was like the first and last time I've ever been fired.
Um, and the reason was she was just like, look like. You don't get it. Like you're always trying to put things online and we're not, like, they were a design agency and they just wanted to do, you know, brand stuff and graphic design. And I said, well, the future is the internet. And they're like, well, is it?
I'm like, [00:09:00] yeah, I think it's, you know. Um, and so they, they didn't want to go to the internet, right? They were like kicking and screaming to the point where they actually had someone intern. They hired me, a young guy who was ready to like, expand that part of the business. And they're like, no, we don't want that.
So it's like you had people who didn't wanna move
Jason Jacobs: back after you were like early Facebook and everything else and be like, remember me?
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah. And you know what she says? She's like, see, I did you a favor. Like I knew, I knew it wasn't a fit. I was like, I guess yes, but like I really, you know, I kind of wish I would've. Done it together, but okay. Um, so again, so then there was like that second movement where it's like the people who picked up computers, but then they're like, but I don't wanna move online.
Um, or then like, I'll move online, but I won't learn to code. Well, I'll learn to code, but, you know, so it's like at every one of these phases in the history of like this thing called design, that it's not that old of, well actually it is a very old practice, but like modern design is, um, you know, there, it, it, if it is a pretty new, [00:10:00] uh, field, right?
Like designing websites and all these things, and we've all kind of been here since the birth of it, but there's just been these phases and at every phase, like people didn't wanna move into the next, the next phase kicking and screaming. Um, and so it's kind of funny because like, uh, with ai, at first when I started seeing these tools, my first inclination was, oh my gosh, um, young designers are done for because,
Jason Jacobs: Tell me you had a young, a young person work for you that was trying to champion working with AI within the firm and you fired them. That would be
Ben Blumenrose: No, no. Yeah, yeah. That would be, that would be the full circle moment. This is not how we do things. I want you to use your brain and not like a supercomputer. Um, yeah, no, I didn't do that, but my fear was basically so like, okay, so my first, my second job, so I would let go of the first job. No, the second job was working at CBS.
Okay. And at CBS, one of the things I was, um, doing there [00:11:00] was, you know, survivor and Big Brother and these kinds of shows. Um, and so they take, there's contestants, right? So the contestants, we had these beautiful photos of these contestants and they were shot against some background. And my job was to go and take these high res photos and remove the background.
And make it so that we could use that person on any type of background. And it was, it was like a, a craft, you know, to do this well with those people with like weird hair, whatever like that. So it could take me anywhere between two and six hours per person, depending on, yeah, yeah, yeah. And so for 20 people, it could be a week's worth of work just to do that.
Um, and now it's a button, right? It just, it's like the remove background is like a button on any app, right? So like, my job that was like half my job, um, was replaced by this button that everyone has now, right? Including like on the iPhone, you could just like click and drag and the, the foreground is removed from the background.
And so, uh, I am [00:12:00] very viscerally aware of what happens when technology kind of kills entry level jobs because like, it, it killed that part of that job. Right. Um. And, but, so when I see AI doing, it's like if you're a seasoned designer and you think in terms of online, offline, and all these other things, it's like, you're, you're probably safe right now.
But my fear was all these, like, entry level designers, it's like, Hey, the AI tools are basically like making, um, young designers unnecessary because like, it does all the, like, you know, it's basically if you're a seasoned designer, you don't need someone to do all the, like, polish and all that, all, all that stuff because it's like, it's, it's embedded into the tool.
Um, then I started talking to designers in the last few months I've been talking to like various, uh, you know, designers from kind of the old hats, but also like people who are like building in these new ways, like young, the youngins. [00:13:00] And I'm pretty convinced now that it's
Jason Jacobs: And, and is this, uh, Ben, is this informally or was there, were you following some kind of process to, or
Ben Blumenrose: I, I was.
Jason Jacobs: this information?
Ben Blumenrose: So basic. Oh yeah. So at first I was like, I just wanna talk to some design directors to understand like how their teams are building products. And I thought there'd be like a little bit of a shift. And what I actually found was on some teams, it was a dramatic shift, um, in the way they built meaning like, um, you know, so, so when, you know, let's say five, seven years ago, if you were gonna design something, it's like a designer goes and works with a pm They, they gather all the like, hey, what, what does this thing need to do?
Um, and then the designer maybe spends days or weeks, uh, kind of coming up with some beautiful mockups. Maybe there's one, two or three ideas of this thing. And you create visual static mocks. And then everyone looks at it and they're like, oh, this looks pretty good. Let's adjust this. And that whole process maybe takes three or [00:14:00] four weeks.
And then an engineer starts building it. As you start building it, you realize, hey, we need to modify some things here and there. 'cause now, now that we can. F touch and feel the thing. Okay, maybe we change it. Um, and then the really good designers can maybe prototype the thing, right? So it's like, as you, there's some clickable prototyping that's happening.
Jason Jacobs: That, that's all what you just described is, is that, that's how I remember it from when I was building a company.
Ben Blumenrose: yeah. And by the way, a lot, a lot, a lot of people still, yeah, but a lot of people still build this way. Like I definitely found places where like, yeah, that's how we still work. Um, but then I found some places where it's like, oh, um, our designers basically pump out 10 to 15 prototypes a day. I'm like, well, what do you mean by prototype?
And they're like, show me these things. I'm like, they look and feel like finished things and there's, there's 10 of them every day. You know, you're just like, boom, boom, boom, boom. Like the velocity of the thing. It's just insane. [00:15:00] And it's like, um, and it's basically they're like the. Part of the process that used to be designer going on paper and pencil and kind of sketching out like rapid five.
'cause what, what's beautiful about paper and pencil is just the speed, right? It's like, hey, okay, what if it worked like this? So I used to, that's how I used to, it's like you take your notebook, this idea, this idea, this idea, and basically on a paper and about an hour you could have 10, 15 ideas. But they're, they're all, um, a representation of what could of something, right?
It's like a sketch, but like imagine if in an hour instead of 10 sketches, you had those sketches fully baked, or not fully ba but like that look really real, you know, that's way more powerful, right? And these tools, these new AI tools, basically let you do that. So they're letting you sketch at the speed.
They're, they're letting you like build almost real. Output what is perceived as real, or can be look as real. And, and it's, um, and it's almost the speed of [00:16:00] sketching. And so these designers basically have stopped sketching and they're just like, idea boom, idea prototype, idea prototype. And then this is how they're kind of iterating on concepts.
And the reps they're getting is insane because they're getting, you know, uh, I, I kind of, I did this post about poker where, you know, who got really good at poker. It's like the people who basically had the time to, to spend and sit there hand after hand, right? And they also had the skill, right? So if you had time and skill, you were gonna be the best.
This was like back in the day. And then online poker comes around and it's like, Hey, actually you guys physically could only sit at one table. Now I'm sitting at two tables, then at four tables, then at eight tables, and then at 16 tables. And so, so a kid who's coming up in poker. Has basically 16 times the experience at the same amount of time.
Right. And so they're just getting way more reps [00:17:00] way, way quicker. And the same thing is happening right now in AI and product design. Like, basically, it tends to be the younger designers that are really embracing these tools, but I think everyone needs to, and they're just getting way more reps at such a faster velocity, and they're learning about like what makes good products way, way faster.
So I'm, I'm basically convinced now that like, uh, it's like the old hats that are gonna have to adapt to the new way of working and, and, and the young people are actually like already native to this, if that makes sense.
Jason Jacobs: So, uh, a couple clarifying questions if I
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: is, um, any commonality in terms of, so you, you talked about it tends to be the younger people. What about the phase of the company itself, either phase or industry, or were there any markers that could kind of predict where the process would be more, uh, le leaning in harder, uh, on AI than not?
Ben Blumenrose: So what [00:18:00] I found was that it actually like stemmed a lot from the director of design. So if the, you know, so, uh, um, I spoke to the RAMP team and, uh, the, their director of design is so embracing of this thing. He's just like. Any tool. So there's the, because imagine if you're in a big company, one stance could just be like, these tools are a bunch of shenanigans.
We don't know the privacy around them. Like, don't touch 'em with a 10 foot pole, just like heads down, build the way we've built, we've gotten, we've been successful, this, you know, this building this way for years, and let's wait for the whole ecosystem to kind of like, mature and then we'll kind of pick our, pick how we, how we adopt.
Um, but this guy basically says, no, we're not gonna wait for that. Uh, if you're a designer and you want to use some AI tool, use it. If it's working well tell the rest of the team how to use it. If that product seems to be really well, we'll kind of like figure out how to like, disseminate it through more of the org.
Um, we'll make sure the [00:19:00] legal team understands how to, how to approve these tools. Like they have a whole process on how to like, get these AI tools from, you know, seed to like fully baked inside the company. Um, and they're experimenting. You know, they're not being like, uh, they're just experimenting to no end, um, uh, around their, their process and which tools and when in the process to bring these tools in.
And they don't need to do this. This is, you know, ramp is like a pretty, you're right, it's like, it's quite large. Like, you know, it's not, it's not a Facebook or a Google or Twitter, but it's certainly a, a bigger company. Um, so I, you are seeing it in some of these larger, more successful companies, and I would say for sure you're seeing it in new startups.
There's no reason why a new startup would be building the old way when they could just have that velocity is basically such a huge competitive, competitive advantage. If you can build this way, it's like you can hire fewer people, you build higher quality products, you build them faster. There's no reason why you wouldn't build this way.[00:20:00]
Jason Jacobs: Now I, I mean, I'm still learning the lingo of the youngins, but, uh, but one of the things I've heard is that. On the content side, when you talk about AI writing LinkedIn posts or things like that, I've heard the term used, uh, called slop. Um,
Ben Blumenrose: Slop. Yeah. Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: and I guess my question is, if you're moving from a pen and paper, really thoughtful and an intentional, uh, um, working towards like the process you talked about earlier in this discussion, right?
To a world where in the poker analogy you've got all these hands playing concurrently, does it take away from the individuality, the creativity, and does it contribute more to robotic slop or, uh, I guess, what are the implications that you've seen, if any, on the quality side?
Ben Blumenrose: yeah, I think, I think you, it absolutely can. So the thing that the best teams are gonna do is basically have these tools come up with eight or 10 [00:21:00] ideas, and in those eight or 10 ideas, there's gonna be one or two gems and a bunch of stuff that's like, eh, that's not that good. Or, Hey, this is not. You know, this is not good enough.
And then they also take some of these ideas that the tools get you 70, 80, 90% of the way, and then they go and they refine and refine and refine. Um, but it's just like the big chunk in the, in the beginning, this thing just like, it just lets you come up with these ideas. You know, like a, a simple idea is, or a simple, like, example of this is like, let's take like a marketing headline on a website, you know, go to any website.
It's like, whatever. There's like the, the big value prop, right? If you went to chat GPT and we're just like, Hey, here's the type of company I have, um, and here's what we're selling. And give me like eight to 10 headlines. And some of them suck, and some of them are like, pretty interesting. And then a one or two are gonna be like, really good.
And then in those really good ones, you're like, this is almost there, but like, this one word is not quite right. Or like, you know, the way it's formatted, or [00:22:00] maybe it could be a little more succinct or whatever, you know. And so that's the same exact thing. It's just like it got you to this final place. Um, a lot faster, but it's not that you can just, um, yeah, it's gonna give you 10 ideas, right?
And then it's up to you to be like, to figure out like which is good and which works and which one doesn't. And then the other thing, I think people are losing a, like, this is another thing I'm starting to get frustrated with, so I don't know if you've heard of, people are like, oh, the three person unicorn.
The one person unicorn. Have you seen like, things like that?
Jason Jacobs: Yes.
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah. One why, like who, like, why, why do you want to build like a big impactful thing by yourself? Like, you know, that journey is just like sad. Like to me that's just like a sad journey. Like, why are we, why are
Jason Jacobs: as a, as a current lone wolf nomad, I kind of feel attacked. I mean, I have no business model to be clear, and I'm not really building anything [00:23:00] yet. Uh, but I, you know, yeah.
Ben Blumenrose: No, but I'm saying, I'm saying once you kind of figure it, so you're, you're in the, uh, you know, you're, you're, you're wandering the desert, right? Um, but when you find your promised land, it's gonna be like, dude, this is amazing. And I wanna start bringing in great people here to, to build and, and do great things with me.
And I, you know, so maybe that team doesn't have to be tens of thousands. Maybe it's dozens or hundreds or whatever it is. But I don't know why we have this obsession with like, you know, it's like, oh, if you play this out, it's like, then we're just gonna have the one person billion. It's like, yes, it could happen, but like, if you're actually like, ambitious and this thing's really working well, like why do you wanna do it all by yourself?
And there's probably things by the way, that like, if you're a small team, like you don't want to look designer fund, we're a small firm, right? Like we don't have dozens of employees. But it's like, I don't want to do the accounting by myself. And, you know, I have tools to help me with accounting, but still it's good to have like an accounting.
You know, [00:24:00] partner who does that? Our le you know, I don't wanna do our legal docs, right? Like, we have amazing lawyers that I work with. I don't want to, you know, so it's like, uh, yeah, we're small, but we lean on all these partners. And same thing with a company. Like, as you get, um, success, like, it's, it's just like a much more fun to me.
It's just like way more fun to have people that you wanna work with, like working with you Anyhow, so that's one thing. And then the second thing is, so it's just like, it's like, uh, we're anyhow, so we're just like fighting human nature there to be like, oh, let's just like the one person, the three person company.
It's like, that's the saddest to me. It's like, why are we even shooting for that? And then
The second thing is these tools are all around product building, right? But running a product and running a company. Are totally different. So let's say, you know, people are like, oh, you know, like take, take a tool like Figma, which is a, an amazing design tool, and people are like, someone [00:25:00] should just like vibe code Figma in six months and then everyone will switch over to this like, new Figma that one person created.
Like, no, they fucking won't, not in a million years. And I'll tell you why, because guess what? Figma also has this like, incredible community that a team is making sure to like, manage and, and run and cultivate. Guess what else? They have an incredible support team so that the shit goes down, that support team is ready and waiting and you know, to talk to you and figure out, you know, how, how, how to fix the thing, right?
So if you're just like one person, um, you're not gonna do all those, those things. And so there's like, there's building a product and running a company are two very different things. And I think people are like, oh, if you can build a product by yourself, then you could run a company by yourself. And it's like, no, those are just different.
And as you get scaled, you're gonna need all those other roles. You know, sales, uh, HR support, you know, legal, all the, all these things basically need to come in. And yes, those teams are more able to do these jobs with fewer people, but it's not [00:26:00] that one person is gonna be able to like run a company like that at scale.
Um, nor again, nor should that be the goal, I think, anyhow. So that's the, I'll end the rant there.
Jason Jacobs: And I, I mean I've seen you talking quite a bit about how you think that there should be more design founders and that AI is making it possible and more natural for there to be more design founders. Before we get into that, I'm just curious historically, like is that a new thing that you've been thinking about and longing for?
Or have you always wished that there were there, there were more design founders? Yeah, so like gimme, gimme some history and then let's talk about the where we are and where it's going.
Ben Blumenrose: Okay, let's talk. Yeah. So let's get to history a little bit. So, um, when I was in school, okay, and I was being taught about design, the, the, the kind of gold, the North star that like every designer was like, one day maybe I'll be, this was if you ran your own agency.
That was the dopest that was like [00:27:00] the thing that everyone wanted to be, you know, that was like, you've reached the pinnacle of design this if you had your own agency. But the idea of a designer starting a company that's not an agency, that wasn't, it was like, you, you might as well have told a, a room of designers.
Like imagine being a doctor one day. It's like, no, what, how no. Right? So I come outta school, I go
Jason Jacobs: would it, would it be as crazy as telling PG that I'm a sole founder, MBA, that can't code, that's gonna start a company?
Ben Blumenrose: crazier. Crazier. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It just wasn't even in the, uh, conversation. And so then, so then, um, so I, I, you know, my first role, like, I went and worked at agencies. I, I, I, you know, even helped start my own agency, we started doing our own product work. You and I talked a little bit about like the influence of, of companies like 37 Signals where it's like you take the consulting money fund your own product.
So again, this was like, that was like the dream, living the dream. And then I got recruited to go work at Facebook. Um, and I ended up joining [00:28:00] there in oh seven. And that was just an incredible, incredible experience where, um, as the company started doing well, and you knew that everyone around you had equity in this thing, you just thought, this is gonna be incredible.
All these, you know, they were truly kids, you know, a lot of them were kids in their early twenties and just the, you know, incredible people. And you're just like, all these people are gonna do well financially. Um, because we're all owners in this. We are all owners, you know, so we weren't like the founder, but we were owners.
And that in agencies it's usually like there's two or three partners and everyone else is like the scrubs, right? And everyone's like, there's kind of the us and them. Um, and in startups I was like, it's everyone's in us. And I was like, why weren't we told this in design school? Like, what the fuck? Like this is the, you know, it's like, it's all of a sudden you discover this thing.
And the happier I got and the more excited I was and the more satisfied I was, the more frustrated and angry I got That design school basically didn't tell me [00:29:00] about this path. And this is the best path. Like what the heck? Who, you know, who's holding? Yeah. I got so upset about it. So anyhow, so I started going to design schools and trying to talk to the students about this like thing that you don't know about called
Jason Jacobs: you were at Facebook
Ben Blumenrose: while I was at Facebook.
Jason Jacobs: and, and, and was the goal there, was it, was it a recruiting tool to get more designers to work
Ben Blumenrose: Not, uh, not really. Like, maybe a little bit, but really it was much more about like, I just want designers to think about joining startups, right? I was like, we gotta be joining start, because this is the, this is where it's at guys. It's not agencies, it's not freelancing, startups is where it's at. You'll have life changing experiences.
Um, and so I, I went on this just like huge binge of trying to do that. Um, and then at the same time, so there was a designer on my team, uh, who his name is Evan Sharp. Does that name ring a bell to you? I,
Jason Jacobs: Uh, I don't know. Evan Sharp. I've heard the name, but I can't place it.
Ben Blumenrose: yeah. Which is amazing, right? Um, [00:30:00] so Evan Sharp started a company called Pinterest. Does that name ring a bell to you?
Jason Jacobs: Yes,
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah. Right. But you don't know him and you don't know his name. Um, which is incredible. Right. So there's, so, um, he was a designer on Facebook, just like every other designer, just like Adam Moi was a designer.
Do you know how Adam Moser is?
Jason Jacobs: I, I do know that name.
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah. Okay, great. So Adam Mosseri was also just a designer, like all of us. Um, but anyway, Evan Sharp was at Facebook at the time. I was doing all this, all this, uh, trying to get designers to join startups. And he had this side project that was helping people, like pin stuff, you know, all over the internet.
He's like, this is a much better thing. And it was like his side thing. And it started to really take off inside Facebook. Like Facebook employees started using it a lot. And after about a year of, um, of this, uh, of him working at Facebook, he says, Hey, I think I need to leave and like do this thing. And I just thought, what a huge mistake.
Oh my gosh. Like you're leaving this rocket ship to like. For this like [00:31:00] pin thing, like, you know, 99 times outta a hundred, these things fail. Like, you know, you, you, you have the most amazing place. Like you are where you need to be and now you're leaving like after a year. This is crazy. Um, but then within a few years I just started, the thing just started taking off.
Um, and it was very clear that design was a big reason for that. Um, and then at the same time, Joe and Brian, who were friends from early, uh, you know, oh 7, 0 8, and they were telling us about all their struggles. Like, Hey, we're trying to fundraise. No one believes in us 'cause we're just two designers from risd.
And you're just like, what? Fuck those guys? It's like, what's going on? Like, it's like, oh yeah, all the investors are like finance bros. Or you know, eng engineering by background. And they see two designers, they're like, why would we give these guys money? And so early on, um, this was before Designer Fund even started, I just started seeing that design was having such a big.
Uh, impact on the success of these companies. [00:32:00] it's like, and I had no fund, right? But all I had was this insight that like, duh. Like obviously design creates the better outcomes. It's just so transparent to me and so obvious. And this whole ecosystem with investors just totally blind to it. Um, and I was just like, God, like if only more designers started companies, those companies would definitely outperform because they would have the better design.
And if you had a fund that was just focused on that, oh my god, that fund, that fund would kill, right? And so we just thought like it was just this thing that was just such an obvious blind spot to people who weren't on the ground building products. Um, and even to the point where I, when I was raising for a designer fund and I was going to our potential investors to LPs and telling them about like.
Design and design at startups. And imagine if like we're, we would be the only people who have this insight, and sometimes like a [00:33:00] potential, they'd be like, uh, what do you, what do you mean about design? And it's like, what do you, what do you, what are you asking? And like, are you talking about like interior design or fashion?
I'm like, I'm sorry, what are you fucking talking about? Like, we're talking about software, right? They're like, yeah, what does design have to do with software? And you're like, do you know how software is made? And they're like, yeah, engineers get together and they build stuff. I'm like, oh no. Oh no. Like, you know, it's like, I thought it was just so clear that to build anything, it's just like a house, right?
You're not gonna bring a construction crew in and just be like, start building everyone. And then like a year and a half in be like, oh, I think we need an architect. Yeah, let's bring in an architect. And that's basically what's happening in Silicon Valley. It's like two, three years of building stuff with just engineers.
And then it's like, uh, oh, emergency. This thing doesn't work. Like no one knows how to use it. It looks like crap. Like bring the designers. And it's just like, I was like, why is this happening this way? So early on in designer [00:34:00] Front, it was just like, it's all about designer founders. Let's, let's invest in all the designer founded companies and those companies are just gonna crush everyone else. But then what we noticed was like, there were plenty of founders who actually value design, who didn't know how to do it well. Um, and they actually did a really good job of investing in design and bringing great design in. They just weren't designers themselves. And so he said, okay, let's broaden the tent.
You know? Um, and it's like any founder that values design, we'll, we'll work with them too. Um, and I think that was great. That was a great choice. And over the years, some of our best companies are kind of that type of company. Um, but in the last few years with a, like as ai, um, takes off. It's basically like, where does the designer shine?
It's when this technology gets to this, um, this place of maturity where now it's like, now the, the designers and product people can come in and really make this thing useful. Right? So it's like, it was so obvious to, so AI gets invented. Right? And what's the first ai, [00:35:00] what's the first UI that they, that they put on it? The terminal. A 60-year-old ui. Right. It's, it's a blank box and they're like, type in here and we'll do the thing. You type, and I'm like, it's so clear that the engineers are at the wheel right now. You know, because this is the UI that everyone's putting out there, and I'm like, the, and the designers are gonna come in and make all these things that make no fucking sense to most people useful and functional and delightful.
And those people are gonna kill. And you already see, you know, so, so it's like, um, like I'll give you like a basic example. So it's like chat GPT. So like my dad, he's um, he's like really excited to learn French, right? And, uh, he's been learning French, he's taken lessons, all this stuff, uh, chat GPT to learn French as like an input box.
It's not great. It's like, oh, like he's supposed to [00:36:00] type and then the thing types back, he's supposed to read it and maybe he doesn't quite know how to pronounce it. And I, and I went to him the other day, I was like, Hey, do you know that it has, uh, voice mode? And he's like, what do you mean voice mode? I was like, oh, it can talk to you and you talk to it.
It's a totally different user interface on top of, on, uh, you know, for, for, uh, Chad J pt. It's a different modality, right? But it opens up. So he's like, so what does that mean? I was like, okay, here. So I take the thing and I was like, okay, we'll move it to voice mode. And that's like, this dude speaks French.
I was like, I was like, Hey, ask it a question in French. And then he asked it and then it responds in French and he asks it, he, you know, and they start having a conversation in French. And I was like, I'll be right back. And I come back a half hour later and my dad is still talking to this thing in French and he's just like, this is incredible.
And now he's like going on walks and talking to this French chat GPT as a way to like, you know, keep, keep his like French skills dialed in. It's a totally different modality, totally different user [00:37:00] interface. Um, and it just opens up. Hundreds more use cases and way deeper connection and all these other things.
And that's just like one example, but like there's the graphical user interface for making images and ui, like all these things are coming now. Um, and I'm sure OpenAI and philanthropic and those guys will kind of, uh, you know, put those user interfaces into their products too. But I think it's very clear to me that the de the designers and product builders are coming and they're coming with for these AI tools and they're gonna build these extraordinary companies.
And so for us it's like, it's another, it's, it's like we need to bang the drum again. We need to bang the drum again. And designers, you need to like realize like, this is your time again. You know, like, like, like what happened when mobile got invented? Like what happened when the internet got invented? It's go time.
You know? So that's kind of the thing I'm trying to really, um, put out into the universe to let designers know like, you are built for this moment. Rise up, get [00:38:00] going, let's go. We're here. Um, let's do it. So that, that's kind of what we're trying to do.
Jason Jacobs: And one of the things we talked about, uh, in our initial discussion, uh, that we didn't record, uh, was that there would be a convergence of the, uh, standalone functions, the engineering, the design, the product management, and, and that over time the line would get blurrier across each of these. How do you think about that and, and what does that mean for these individual functions?
Will there be an alpha function and then the, and then the, the others are more subordinate? Does it depend on the company? Will there, will there just be a single function? Um, like what, what is what, what's the future that you predict?
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah. I mean, I think, look, there again, you look at history, so 10, sorry, not even 10 years ago. So I'll go back to oh seven. That's almost 20 years ago. Okay. Uh, at Facebook. Like we didn't have PMs for most other things. So you had designers and engineers, and one of us basically just took on the, the mantle of, [00:39:00] of PMing the thing that we were working on.
So designers and engineers know how to run a, you know, it's like for a, a lot of products, it's like you don't necessarily, you know, the PM hat is worn by someone on the team. So this has happened before. So, and it's gonna continue to happen. And, and basically it's a lot easier, uh, to make that happen because now we have all these tools, right?
That let us, uh, manage all these processes, the shrinking down, you know, so I, I'll give you like another example. So I, I talked to this company that was, um, uh, looking at like the future of, uh, like TV production or film production or whatever you wanna call it. And, um, they're making these animated shorts, right?
And you think about, uh, if you wanted to make a pix, a 10 minute Pixar. Uh, short, it's millions of dollars. It's hundreds of people. Maybe it does, maybe you could get away with 70 to 80 people, right? Voice actors, all these things. It takes a long time, a lot of [00:40:00] money. with these tools, it's like, you know, is it Pixar level?
And like, not quite, but like for kids it's like pretty damn close. It's like incredible. And they do it so fast and so, but what's the most important thing to make it good is the storyteller. So someone who comes up with like, what is a compelling story? Because if I can write the script and it's a story, it's an emotional, amazing story, then the artists basically give life to that story.
And there's all sorts of ways that you can do it better or worse or, you know, show emotion on the face. But if, if the tools now let you just like manifest the thing, if you write a script and these things basically, uh, take the place of a. A Pixar crew of 80. Um, and in a, in a couple of days you have a 10 minute thing that you can kind of touch and feel and see if it, so it's the storyteller, right?
Is be, is is where all the value accrues. And similarly, like if you're a [00:41:00] designer or builder, it's like if you know how to build good product, it's less about in the, it's less about in the, the, the actual tactical execution of the thing. It's more about like, do I know what this thing should look and feel like?
And the tools are kind of your instruments to implement all these things, you know? So it used to be that it was very hard. Ideas were a dime a dozen, but actually, like the implementation was really difficult. Well, the implementation is becoming easier and easier and easier. And so that's why it's like this idea of like the engineer and designer and PM slowly coming into one person.
I think like for, yes, it'll happen, but it's still like for really robust software. You still need really good engineers. You still need really good designers. A great PM will all also make a difference. So it's like, I think a lot of these things are a little bit, um, I don't know. It's like, yeah, it's happening a little bit, but it's not gonna be this thing where like, we're not gonna have engineers anymore.
We're not, you know, it's like, I, I see these people on Twitter, like if you're an engineer, you're fucking done. It's like, [00:42:00] really? Okay, go try to use some of these like, uh, you know, auto engineering tools and see like how far you get with not being an engineer. They like, fuck the, they fuck up all the time.
They have bugs all the time. If you're not an engineer, you have no idea what to do with these
Jason Jacobs: I'll be back. Like, I also, like, I couldn't use to script for editing. And then I came back two years later and now it's amazing and it's only getting better under my feet. Like, it took me till like I had like four false starts with iPads before there was finally a version of iPad that, that worked for me.
And now I can't live without my iPad. And it was the iPad Pro with the magic keyboard. Right. Um, and until that existed, like the iPad didn't, didn't work for me for, for my use cases. Um, and yeah, so I, but, but yeah, the, the, um, the amplifying experts seems, if you're looking to build like enduring industrial strength stuff, the amplifying experts mode seems more ready for primetime than the enabling people to do something that they wouldn't otherwise be able to do.
You can still do [00:43:00] that, but it seems like it's more for play, at least today.
Ben Blumenrose: Yes, a hundred percent. And we'll, yeah, so we'll get there. But again, I think it's like, uh, it's already happened. If you're a designer engineer in a small company, you've already done the pseudo PM thing anyhow. It's not that new. Um, so really like, you know, it's just gonna enable you to do more, more experiments.
It's gonna enable you to probably get further without specialized help, but, you know, for a fully robust, fully baked thing, like you're still gonna need the experts. Um, and I, I, I think that's probably gonna be that way for a little while.
Jason Jacobs: Now, uh, what are you seeing as it relates to processes? And I'm no process expert, but I know there's agile and there's waterfall, and there's whatever else. There's, there's hybrid versions. Um, uh, I mean, are, are you seeing that the processes themselves are also undergoing change? And if so,
Ben Blumenrose: yeah. Yeah. So I, I talked one, one thing was like sketching. Instead of [00:44:00] sketching, you're basically creating prototypes. People are, interestingly enough, it's like they're moving from prototype back to Figma, which you're like, wait, what? I thought the prototype, like the prototype almost looks like the final thing.
So why are we going back to Figma? It's like, well, Figma actually gives you the control of refinement. So, um, so these things are totally changing. We have a tool, we have a tool that just got announced called Selden, and you go take a look. It's like this thing I would've loved to have. So it's basically like if you're a designer or a pm, I.
You can actually, uh, take the actual like components and if there's an issue with them or you wanna update them, this thing will let you check out the component, modify it using a graphic user interface just like you would in Framer or Figma, right? Change the color or change type, whatever, and then check it back into the code base.
So it's all connected to GitHub, but now there's a graph. Instead of using the terminal to update the code, you're using a graphic user interface to update the thing. And we're gonna have a lot more of these tools that basically [00:45:00] give you a more accessible way. Framer is the same way, right? It's like running and managing a marketing site.
Like if Apple used to have this in, they still do actually apple.com, their marketing site. Hundreds of engineers work on it. You know, this like, it's a huge, huge operation. And now with tools like Framer, it's like once the site, the marketing site is built. Uh, PMs and designers and, and content writers and all those are the people that need to be involved day to day.
And the engineers, like they get called in when something new. Uh, or some, some, but, but for the most part, like, they don't need to be as involved as they were before in, in order of magnitude. And so we're seeing a lot of these new tools that basically are making things that were historically very inaccessible to non-technical folks, a lot more accessible.
We're seeing things that let you do things with speed that you wouldn't have been able to do before. We're seeing things that you, um, you know, you can kind of come up with, not just like, [00:46:00] uh, hey, give me five different approaches to this one problem. But it's like, even like, um, hey, here's something that people are struggling with.
Like what type of software would even, 'cause I think for a lot of people it's almost like, what do we build, right? It's like, I, I know what people are struggling with, but should this be. Uh, a mobile app, should it be a dashboard thing? Should it have a feed? You know, it's like there's so many, you know, a lot of these tools are really good or a lot of people are using these tools, like, I know what to build and I'm basically dictating to the thing, build X.
But how did you get to the place where you knew what to build? Right? Uh, you got there because of your, you know, I hopefully it's like research and decades of, of expertise and knowledge and all this stuff. Some people don't have that. And so we're gonna see tools where basically it's like, uh, take all this research and tell me like, how should I even, like, what should I even build?
And then it's like, oh, now that it's telling me what to build [00:47:00] now I'm gonna also help you do the how. Right? And so, so it's like it's all through. And now there's also a lot of amazing tools that are gonna do the research for you. Research used to be really hard. We used to do it. Once a week, we'd bring four or five people in and like watch how they used Facebook.
And then there was a day to like, it was like a very long, hard, you know, you had a whole team around it. And now it's just like, we're gonna make virtual people use your product. We're gonna have these tools that get like dozens of people a day to use the thing and give you the reports on it. Um, so just like from start to finish, these things are just gonna be like faster, uh, better information, uh, you know, more, um, more ideation, right?
So it's just gonna be up and down the stack. I think you're just gonna see software get built way, way faster and for things we never needed before. I'll give you like another like, fun example as of like, 'cause I think also the other thing for people of you and I [00:48:00] like our generation, we don't think in software first, right?
So it's like, if you have a question, if you have a question right now, um, most likely you're first gonna go to Google or chat GPT. Uh, to see if there's a website that has like an answer to it, right? Versus like, can I build software to answer this question? That's just a, an insane thing to do because it's like, why would you build software to answer a simple question?
So lemme give you an example. My daughter, so I have a, a young daughter. She's, uh, almost six. And uh, the other day we were talking about like, bingo. I was like, oh yeah, this thing is just like, bingo. And she's like, what's bingo? I was like, you know, the game bingo. She's like, I don't know what that is. I was like, what?
I was like, I've never heard of Bingo. She's like, oh. I was like, oh my God. Okay, well, um, here's how it works. And so I took a sheet of paper, I was like, you know, you have like a five by five grid and there's numbers on the grid. Um, and then someone has this like thing with balls and they choose a ball, and then you mark when, when you get the [00:49:00] number.
Um, and she's like, how does that work? I was like, oh, well, um, here, let me, I. Uh, here. So I went to Google and I was like a random number generator. And so, you know, they have like a number, you know, so it's like, choose a number one through 25 and this thing starts selecting numbers, but then what do I notice?
It repeats numbers, right? So if I select 21 and then it, and then I was like, and then I don't remember what numbers we've selected, so it's like, Hey, did it already say six or did we, I'm like, oh, crap. So then I, I told my daughter, I was like, Hey, let's look online to see if there's a game, a bingo game that we can play with.
So that we have the, but we have the cards on paper, so it's probably gonna be only, it's only gonna have a version of these games where it's all online or all offline. But this, what I wanted was like the bingo balls to be a software. So I go to Lovable and I just say, Hey, look, um, build me a, a a webpage That, and, and, and because I know how software is built, I quickly [00:50:00] dictated how I wanted it to work.
So I was like. Uh, take 25 balls, have them flying around the screen. After three seconds, have one of the balls shoot out to the front of the screen, stay there for three seconds, then have that ball move to the lower left corner. That lower left corner should stack the balls. Um, make me a button that says re you know, I'm like in real time anticipating all the product decisions that will need to go into building this thing in two minutes.
It creates the product, right? Um, and that, and then we're playing. But it's like, so it's like, my question was like, is there, uh, uh, you know, is there a game, like typically you would've googled this thing and tried to find this thing, but it's like I basically did the calculus, calculus that it would be faster for me to build the game than go and search and find the thing I want online, which is insane.
It's just insane. And so you're gonna get to this point where actually building software might be faster than searching for it. [00:51:00] Right. Um, and so what happens when the, it's like all, what happens when all our kids are basically approaching things from a software first mentality, right? We, we were like, I wonder if there's an app for that.
And they're just gonna be like, what's the fastest way I could build an app for that? Any issue? It's like, oh, let's just build the software to figure that out. You know? And that's just gonna be a weird, crazy world.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, so what are the implications of, of that with your venture capitalist hat on? Uh, what are you seeing as it relates to, uh, capital intensity as it relates to team profiles, as it relates to, um, competition and defensibility
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: as it relates to exits
Ben Blumenrose: We're,
Jason Jacobs: timelines or whatever?
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah. Yeah. It's one of the hardest times to be an investor. I think we're building on sand things that basically look magical today, in two months are gonna seem. Just status quo, you know? Um, and so you really have to think about like, who [00:52:00] are, are the products you're looking at?
Like, who else is interested in solving this, right? So what I really like is like people, you know, teams that are bringing this stuff to very esoteric, very like, hard to understand spaces, you know? Um, so weird places in healthcare climate or all these things where most broad based tools are just not gonna have a focus on the stuff.
Um, and then I wanna build, I wanna invest in the companies building the picks and shovels of the stuff. So who, who has a, a, a view of the world, um, that, that aligns with, with this viewpoint and is basically like building the tools to help people build this way, right? Um, and I think that's like the best you can do.
And then, and then, and then the other thing is like, it's again to, so who's gonna win is the best product builders. Um, both in terms of quality and velocity. And so as a design product oriented person, if you're like, Hey, I want, I want, uh, to invest in a team that's [00:53:00] tackling this problem that maybe six or seven other teams are gonna tackle, well, probably their technical expertise is not gonna be the game changer anymore at this point, because those six teams will probably have a very similar tech outcome.
And so it's gonna come down to who's gonna build the best like tool in terms of just like elegant delight. Like do you use granola for your meeting notes?
Jason Jacobs: I do.
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah. It's an amazing tool. Why? It's not like they have the best like thing that takes. A transcript and turns it into notes. There's hundred, there's probably hundreds of tools now that do that.
They just have this like elegant ui, it, it integrates with all the tools really beautifully. They have a really good like Mac app for it, right? It's like, and it just kind of feels like these things that are sort of on the edges, but they're not, they're, they're just basically, it's like you use it for one day and you're like, yeah, of course I'm gonna use this going forward.
Right? So that's, it's just so clear to me. Again, it's one of these things where I'm just like, it's so clear that the [00:54:00] product builders and the designers are not gonna make the tools that we all want to use and love to use, and those tools are gonna win. Um, and so for me it's, uh, I need to find those people and in some cases convince the people who have those skills.
I'm like, you have the skills, you have the power. Just go start the company. You know what I mean? Instead of just like, sit at this other big company and, and kind of be frustrated that you can't run the show. So it's gonna be like a mix of those two things.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, I know some investors are very people driven and others are very market driven, and some of them have thesis, uh, a thesis where they go deep in a market upfront and others are more reactive and they, they see what, what, you know, what comes their way and where they fall in love. How, how do you think about things at Designer Fund?
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah, we're high. I would say hybrid. You know, there's definitely, definitely some spaces where we're super steeped in them. We understand the dynamics and we're gonna like seek out the team that's kind of approaching it the way we think it should be approached. But then there's times someone's gonna be [00:55:00] like, oh, hey, like, we're gonna make this new tool for, uh, doctor's offices, uh, to help them manage their finances.
And it's like, I'd, I've never run a doctor's office finance stack, you know? Um, but you see, but they're just incredible builders and they're, and you know, like kind of, I often talk about like the engine, uh, uh, a founder's engine, which is just like how quickly when you give them feedback, do they like take that feedback and put it back into a product and iterate.
So that iteration speed and the quality of product that I can tell, I can tell who builds good product. And so if I invest in the people who have fast fee, you know, fast iteration, speed, and build the best product. You know, that's kind of, so for, I don't know, 60, 70% of the things that we invest in. It's like people, and it's a people and product lens.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, and, and just so, so that people listening know how to think about designer fund stage, check, size, lead,[00:56:00]
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah. So.
Jason Jacobs: what, what are, what are the criteria that, that, uh, that matter to you?
Ben Blumenrose: Yeah, for us it's, uh, pre-seed, and seed is the typical stage, though every soen we'll do a series, like an opportunistic series A, where we truly see someone bringing great design to a space that lacks, uh, great product. Um, our three core kind of like focus areas are healthcare climate. In this, in this, uh, third space we call productivity, um, or sorry, we call prosperity, where it's like, how do you help more people thrive economically?
Um, and so if you're a, a founder that values design that you think, uh, you have, uh, really good product chops or you wanna bring those, that that great product to market, and you want an investor who will help you do that at the highest level and get a product to the quality of like a Stripe or Airbnb or Square, one of those, those kinds of companies, uh, that's how to think about it.
Our typical check size, 500, 600 K. So what's nice is like, we're very collaborative. We tend to not lead, so we work with a lot of [00:57:00] leads and it's just like for the, for our check size. We offer a ton of value. 'cause it's like, yeah. When you're starting out, what's the most important thing? How good is this product?
Uh, can I fundraise? Which desi, you know, design and storytelling and all is so key to fundraising, um, and hiring great people, which, like, again, design, brand, all these things like really move the needle on that front. And so we think we offer a ton of value for a relatively, like small check size.
Jason Jacobs: I am just curious. I, I mean we've talked a lot about how companies and designers and product teams are leveraging these tools. How, and, and we've also talked about how you're leveraging them at home, uh, with your kids. Uh, what about for designer fund?
Ben Blumenrose: Oh, internally.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. Have, are, are,
Ben Blumenrose: Oh yeah.
Jason Jacobs: advantage of 'em and, and,
Ben Blumenrose: yeah, a hundred percent. Oh yeah. Yeah. Big time. So, okay. So we, we just launched this thing. So as part of, um, this designer founder, uh. Movement that we're trying to create. So we launched recently, designer founders.com. [00:58:00] You and whoever can, can go look at that and it's like, that historically would've been like a pa.
It's like, oh, you have to set up a database and all these people and the information and okay, all that data is stored in Notion. The site was built on framer in about four days. Um, we worked with an illustrator and brand person to think through kind of like the branding and illustration style in a matter of days, um, using substack for the newsletter.
Um, and so, you know, it's like that, that just like that whole like suite of things that we did within a couple weeks, it would've taken so long to do, uh, just like a year or two ago. And now it's just like, it's so quick. And, you know, we work with people who are like, Hey, what if the site did this? And it's like, okay, let's prototype it.
And in a day you have like an idea of what, you know, what if designer, founders also like had profiles for each person. Great. Two days later, everyone has a profile. What if, uh, on their profiles it had like links to all the things they've said around like, [00:59:00] building companies. Great. Boom. Done. You know, so it's like building, using these new Yeah, we, we absolutely are like big users of all these tools and trying to understand like where, where we can leverage 'em to do great work.
And also like where their shortcomings go, you know, where there's a shortcoming. We just like, we experiment and we let it go. Move on to the next thing.
Jason Jacobs: Ben, we've covered so much ground. Is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did? Or any, uh, parting words you'd like to impart on listeners?
Ben Blumenrose: Parting words and parting. I, I think it's just like an, um, it's an incredible time to be a tinker. Like I kind of feel, um, look, when, when I, one of my, the first ways I got, um, started in the internet. They started in the internet, like one of the first things I used to tinker with games. So I basically, my first design job, how I got it was I used to make mods for games and then post the mods online.
Um, and I got contacted by an [01:00:00] advertising agency that wanted to do it for one of their clients. I was like 13 years old. And they, uh, and it was for, I remember the, the alcoholic drink from back in the day. So I was 13 years old and they said, Hey, um, we saw that you've been doing this thing, like, uh, we'd like to do it for one of our clients.
We just, we have a very small budget. And me as a 13-year-old was like, what is the, what do you, what you wanna hire me? Like, I was like, okay, what's the small budget? They're like, we only have five grand. Jason, it was, it was like someone was offering me $8 million to do something, you know, it's like five grand for a 13-year-old.
That's like, in those days it was just like, what? Um, and I did it and I did it, and we signed a co, you know, I had to have my parents sign the contract and the whole, and then one day in the mail, this $5,000 check came, and I was like, well, I don't have to work ever again. Thanks, mom and dad. Um, I ended up, uh, spending the whole thing, uh, basically taking that money and using it on a Mac.
I, I bought a Mac with it. Um, but this is, this is again, that time where it's just like if you build [01:01:00] stuff and put it out there, um, and, and, you know, just an incredible time to like, be around those people and tinker again and use these tools to see what you can do and ex, you know, explore ideas that you have.
Um, because it's just like, we've just made all so much more, uh, outcomes accessible to people. Right. Like the, the answering of like, what if a. You know, what the, what if, what if a tool did this? What if a piece of software did this? I wonder if, and you can just go from, I wonder if to like fully baked idea, testing it, shipping it, even with hardware very, very quickly.
And it's just like, why not? Like, you know, let's like all do that now and see where it goes. So I, I think I would just like, um, urge everyone to just like lean into action and experimentation. Um, and it's fine. We can all have a healthy dose of skepticism. We should, but also just like, hey, let's not like lose sight that these, a lot of these tools are [01:02:00] let really magical and can have a huge impact and, uh, can be really wonderful.
So it's like, let's, let's have a little bit of like positivity and a little bit of just like leaning in towards action and see what we come up with.
Jason Jacobs: I think that's a great point to end on, a great rallying cry and, uh, super fascinating to hear not only what you're up to and thinking about, but how you got here. And I know I found it inspiring and I'm not even a designer, so I suspect that, uh, there'll be a lot of designers out here that listen to this show that you end up prompting to action from this episode.
So if those stories come in, I'd love to hear 'em.
Ben Blumenrose: Beautiful. I will let you know a hundred percent.
Jason Jacobs: thanks Ben.
Ben Blumenrose: Thanks, Jason. Appreciate it.
Jason Jacobs: Thank you for tuning into The Next Next. If you enjoyed it, you can subscribe from your favorite podcast player in addition to the podcast. Which typically publishes weekly. There's also a weekly newsletter on Substack at the next next.substack.com. That's essentially for weekly accountability of the ground I'm covering, areas I'm tackling next, [01:03:00] and where I could use some help as well.
And it's a great area to foster discussion and dialogue around the topics that we cover on the show. Thanks for tuning in. See you next week.