Host Jason Jacobs introduces Puck Academy and interviews Mel Ruzzi, head coach of Women’s Ice Hockey at Brown, known for defensive systems and program-building after roles at Princeton, Yale, Providence, Harvard, and Amherst, plus long involvement with USA Hockey. Ruzzi recounts growing up in Minnesota, starting organized hockey in eighth grade, playing high school at Burnsville, then captaining Providence College, and entering college coaching via a graduate assistant role at Amherst while earning a sport management master’s at UMass. They discuss how girls’ hockey pathways have expanded, the rise of academies and travel conflicting with school, and recruiting realities (Minnesota and Ontario as key pockets) amid shifting NCAA legislation, the portal, and emerging advisors. Ruzzi emphasizes passion, fun, and coaching “people,” teaching hockey IQ through film, and building a clear team identity balancing structure with offensive creativity; she hopes players spread talent beyond top programs and that the PWHL succeeds.
Host Jason Jacobs introduces Puck Academy and interviews Mel Ruzzi, head coach of Women’s Ice Hockey at Brown, known for defensive systems and program-building after roles at Princeton, Yale, Providence, Harvard, and Amherst, plus long involvement with USA Hockey. Ruzzi recounts growing up in Minnesota, starting organized hockey in eighth grade, playing high school at Burnsville, then captaining Providence College, and entering college coaching via a graduate assistant role at Amherst while earning a sport management master’s at UMass. They discuss how girls’ hockey pathways have expanded, the rise of academies and travel conflicting with school, and recruiting realities (Minnesota and Ontario as key pockets) amid shifting NCAA legislation, the portal, and emerging advisors. Ruzzi emphasizes passion, fun, and coaching “people,” teaching hockey IQ through film, and building a clear team identity balancing structure with offensive creativity; she hopes players spread talent beyond top programs and that the PWHL succeeds.
00:00 Show and Guest Intro
02:11 Why Womens Hockey Matters
03:05 Minnesota Roots and Late Start
04:16 Providence and Coaching Spark
05:11 Breaking Into Coaching
07:06 Why Not Hockey Earlier
08:19 Girls Pathway Then vs Now
11:50 Dad's Coaching Philosophy
13:00 Compete Process and Practice
14:56 What Separates Top Players
16:48 Parents Pressure and Joy
23:06 Academics vs Travel Hockey
26:55 Girls Pathway Today
27:24 Eligibility Rules Shifting
28:55 Recruiting Hotbeds Explained
30:11 Academies Pulling Players
32:09 What Coaches Look For
34:08 Passion Over Scholarships
35:33 Agents Advisors And Cycles
36:29 Teaching IQ With Video
39:29 Building Team Identity
42:08 Structure Versus Creativity
44:18 Portal Rules And Fit
46:12 Finding Mentors As Coach
47:42 Future Of Womens Hockey
51:05 Keeping Youth Hockey Fun
53:15 Final Thanks And Signoff
[Jason] (0:00 - 2:59)
Welcome to Puck Academy, a show about how hockey players grow on and off the ice. I'm Jason Jacobs, the host, and each week I talk with players, coaches and experts shaping the future of player development. Today's guest is Mel Ruzi, head coach of women's ice hockey at Brown University.
Mel's built a reputation as one of the top minds in the women's college game known for her defensive systems, player development, and ability to elevate programs. She took over Brown in 2021, stepping into her first head coaching role and bringing a clear vision for building a competitive, high-character team. Before Brown, she also had a historic run at Princeton, helping the Tigers capture their first-ever ECAC championship and record-setting season, and has also coached at Yale, Providence, Harvard, and Amherst.
Beyond the college game, Mel's been deeply involved with USA Hockey for nearly two decades, working with national development camps and the U.S. Under-18 women's national team. As a player, she captained Providence College, where she helped lead the team to a Hockey East championship and earned all-conference recognition. We have a great discussion in this episode about Mel's path in the game.
Growing up in Minnesota, she didn't start playing until eighth grade, surprisingly, and ended up playing Division I hockey at Providence. We talked about what it was like having an older brother who played and having her dad as a coach. We talked about what it's been like coming up in the game and how the path has evolved for female players over the last several decades.
And we also talked about the college game, Mel's philosophy on coaching, how it differs from some other coaches that she's seen, where she goes to for insight and guidance on coaching, and also what she looks for in recruits, what she's seen work and not work, and where she hopes the game will go directionally. It's a great discussion, and I hope you enjoy it. Mel Ruzee, welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me. Well, it is an honor to have you. As I mentioned to you before we started recording, I started the show because I was a hockey dad to a boy, and it was a lot of work to try to figure out his path and a lot of other dads and parents that I knew had similar challenges, so a lot of it was kind of topics that were relevant to me on the boy side.
But as the show's evolving, I mean, really, I think it's moving towards taking a more holistic view of what's happening in the sport, and you can't take a holistic view of what's happening in sport without also looking at the girls and the women's side. So you are the first guest that is specifically focused on the women's side of the game, and it's a doozy. You're like a renowned Division I head coach, so it's just such an honor to have you, and thank you for helping me break the ice here.
[Melanie] (2:59 - 3:01)
Yeah, hopefully I represent the women's side well.
[Jason] (3:02 - 3:13)
No pressure, no pressure, Coach Rizzi. Yeah, so for starters, maybe just take me back. I know some of this because I listened to some other shows that you've been on, but talk a bit about your path into the game.
[Melanie] (3:13 - 7:06)
Yeah, I mean, I grew up in Minnesota, and so you're really blessed when you're in Minnesota even today that there are ranks in every town. I'm in my 40s, so I grew up playing pond hockey in the backyard, and so I didn't actually play organized hockey until grade 8. My older brother Phil played, and my dad coached us in everything, so I think I kind of joined some practices with them, but never was on an organized team.
And then in eighth grade, stumbled upon a girls team in my town, so I tried out and made it, maybe because there weren't that many, so they took me. But I started playing organized hockey at that point, and then the next year played high school hockey at Burnsville, Minnesota, which is really cool, and had a legendary coach, Tom Osiki, who's a Minnesota Hockey Hall of Famer and fantastic human. And so that's sort of how I kind of got into it, just it's so accessible, it's so easy, and I know that for Minnesotans, they can attest to that, so blessed.
You could never leave your state and play great hockey. And then I was really grateful to be able to have an opportunity to play in university and had a couple of great options and ended up going to Providence College out here in New England. And so that's sort of the first time I realized how big women's hockey was, or girls hockey was, people were from all over.
I think I was one of two Minnesotans on the team, everyone else was from kind of all over the place, and then I loved it. I had an amazing coach, Bob Durainy, had an opportunity to work for him years later, but I think his philosophy aligned a lot with my dad as a coach. Just really fun and happy, and he had so much joy for not just the game, but for the team and for the people.
And so I think that's sort of how I, between him and my dad, I think that's how I was like, okay, maybe coaching, but for sure involved in sport. And so when I graduated from PC, I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but there was a great alum, Vicki Mocession, who was starting a youth organization in Walpole, Massachusetts. And she said, hey, could you help me out?
You could work in the rink, and then also kind of help me with the girls program. And so that's how I got involved with starting the Massachusetts Spitfires, which it's cool to see how much it's grown and where it is today. So I was there for a couple of years, and midway through my second year, I thought, maybe I want to work in sport, maybe pro sport, maybe college sport.
And so I ended up applying to UMass Amherst to get my master's degree in sport management. And I had a nice in there because Coach Draney had gone to school there for that program. So he had written me a recommendation and helped to kind of make that path happen.
And what's super funny about that is I went out there, there's always opportunities to be a GA or TA. And so I was going to pay for it by being a TA. And I really didn't want to do that.
And so it was out of my character. I'm not I'm not like a super social person or comfortable to throw myself outside the box. But I just so desperately want to do something better than being a TA that I ended up knocking the door of the Amherst college coach, Jim Plumer.
And I just, you know, could I get involved? Could I volunteer? Could I do something?
And it was the timing was amazing. He had just lost his assistant and said, you know, we talked for a bit. He's incredibly smart.
Jim's now the head coach at UVM and it's done a great job there. But he kind of said, like, you know, I think we can make this work and you can you can be a GA graduate assistant and I can pay you. And so gave me a huge salary of eight thousand dollars a year.
So it was awesome. And he fed me wings at the hangar. And that's how I survived grad school for two years to get my master's.
And and that sort of kind of kicked off my coaching career in the college ranks.
[Jason] (7:06 - 7:13)
So I want to go all the way back to something you said right at the beginning, which is that you didn't start playing until you said eighth grade, right?
[Melanie] (7:14 - 7:14)
Yeah.
[Jason] (7:14 - 7:23)
Yeah. So with older brothers and with a dad, you know, older brothers have played and a dad who coached. How how did you avoid playing earlier than that?
[Melanie] (7:24 - 8:19)
So my older brother was a year older and he played. But really, like, there wasn't girls hockey. I was like intensely in the softball.
You know, at the time, I probably at the maybe thought I'd play college. I wanted to play in the big 10. I wanted to be a catcher.
I'm like five, six, one thirty. So I don't know if I really fit the bill as a big 10 catcher. But yeah, I loved I love softball.
That was like my my bread and butter. And I played all kinds of sports. I played basketball terribly.
Again, I'm not a huge person. I played soccer as a goalie because I didn't like running. I played a little bit everything right.
And it was never that my parents wasn't weren't pushing me into play hockey. You just I wasn't I didn't I think I didn't really want to play boys hockey with boys. I wanted to hang out with my buddies.
And that was my thing. I loved to be with with all my friends. And so it wasn't until like discovering that there was a a girls hockey team that I was, you know, open to playing it organized.
[Jason] (8:19 - 9:12)
I'm realizing, you know, I was going to ask you, like, well, on the boys side, like the pathway looks like this. And then on the girls side, you know, what does it look like? But there's another whole contrast here, which is I'm in New England and you grew up in Minnesota.
Right. And so the boys pathway here doesn't necessarily look like the boys pathway there. And the girls pathway here doesn't necessarily look like the the girls pathway there.
But but for you, when you came in at the time, what did it look like in terms of the boys pathway in Minnesota and what it looked like in terms of the girls pathway and that stuff we're seeing now with like, you know, early professionalization and privatization and all of that, like had any of that started in. And I can I can already hear Mike Snee saying, well, that's not even there today. Right.
So, yeah. But yeah, it just be great to kind of get the lay of the land of how it was when you started in the sport in eighth grade.
[Melanie] (9:12 - 10:44)
Yeah, it's almost not fair for me to have a sense or a discussion of the comparing contrast, because I I think the the men's side, the boys side is super unique. And I don't really know enough about it, like the pressure to play junior. And if you're in Minnesota, can you play high school hockey?
Like there are guys coming out of still today coming out of Minnesota high school hockey to Division One. But I think that, you know, the guys are kind of split up and they're going everywhere. But if you talk about Minnesota, like Minnesota girls hockey has always been like stay in Minnesota.
There's so there's such a ton of great girls playing and programming. And in fact, then, I mean, there wasn't year round hockey. That wasn't the thing.
I mean, it's funny. Maybe there was like we had this summer program called CODP, which is like I think a spinoff of soccer. Soccer is like big for CODP.
So you would skate with Jack Blatherwick and like it was like all the best players from all over the state would come together. And somehow I got in the mix and like you train together and, you know, overspeed training and some skills and off ice stuff. But it's not like now where there's a their high school team and they have their summer team and then they have their fall team.
And then it wasn't like that. So my path was was literally like play high school hockey. Didn't really know that college hockey kind of existed much.
You know, when I when I played, one of the teams that recruited me was Wisconsin and they didn't have a team yet. My freshman year would have been the first year of having a team. So I mean, that's and I know I'm dating myself, but I mean, the sport has, you know, really exploded.
[Jason] (10:44 - 11:02)
Well, especially on the girls side, it was on both. But it seems like the girls side, like percent wise, what it was to now, I don't know the numbers, but like you can just like just look around. Right.
It's like the girls side all of a sudden. It's like it's everywhere. And the girls are so good.
Right. We're like growing up, it was like maybe there were one or two girls on the boys team and that was it.
[Melanie] (11:03 - 11:50)
And that's it. And like even high school hockey back then, Burnsville was like a pioneering program. It wasn't like it is now where there's so many high schools.
There's, you know, you know, triple A, double A, whatever it is. Like it's it's much, much bigger now. And you're right.
Like, you know, the skill set that I had, I would never even touch the ice in any college hockey, maybe club, you know, like the the women now, like they all can do everything, you know, the way they shoot the puck, the way they skate. It's just it's different. So it's hard for me to look back and think about that as the path.
My path is just I played probably a small sample size coach came to watch me in the state tournament because we were pretty good team said, you know, she looks like she's decent. I played played forward and then I became a D at some point. And then I went to college and I was a D like it was just it was different time.
[Jason] (11:51 - 12:03)
And growing up with a dad who was a coach, what was the philosophy in your household as it related to sport and how much of it was about being in the moment versus having goals, for example?
[Melanie] (12:05 - 13:00)
Okay, let's just I mean, my dad was my hockey coach. My dad was like my my coach of fun. Like Michael, my teammates loved my dad because it was like fun.
You know, we didn't go home and like break down the game and watch film. And like, you know, it wasn't that wasn't what and I think that's who I am now. Like, yes, there's certainly a seriousness to what we do and training athletes.
And but it really like it was it was and is a game. And so it was about building confidence. It was about being yourself.
It was about taking chances like that's that was my coaching from my dad and from my mom to my mom's not like into sports. I would say she probably is a pretty good athlete because she's strong. I think I probably get my body type more from her than than my dad.
But but yeah, it wasn't I never I think the only pressure I ever felt was from myself. Like I was a very intense like wanted to be perfect. But it was never like my dad saying like do this do that.
Like that wasn't it.
[Jason] (13:01 - 13:33)
When you look at the girls coming up who evolve into, you know, the strongest women players, how much of it is kind of that I've heard you say in the past, for example, that you're a fierce competitor. How much of it is being a competitor in the moment and how much of it is more about like goals, discipline, a plan, structure, sacrifice? Does it have to be that way?
Is it detrimental for it to be that way? Like is living in the moment and just keeping it fun the way to go? Like, are there any patterns?
Is every case different? Like just kind of riff on that.
[Melanie] (13:34 - 14:56)
Yeah, I think when I think about being a competitor, I think, and maybe, maybe my teams will say this too, it's like, it's the Monday through Thursday, I want practice, for instance, to be so efficient and everything with purpose. And I want to see like, what happens on Monday turn into like, to Tuesday and how it grows. And like, that like, when it's to me, it's like the, it is the plan, it's the process.
But it's like, how good can you be? Like, how good can you be? And then Friday and Saturday is like, it's it's test day.
But for for me, like, maybe it's not exactly to sit back and watch and enjoy. But it kind of is like, if I'm still teaching them what the forecheck is on Friday, in a game, then I really really didn't do my job. Like I were not prepared, right.
And so when I think about competitiveness as a coach, like my time to really compete is at practice. It's can I instill values? Can I build an identity of our team?
Can I get us to think the game in a way that when the situation changes, they've got tools in their tool belt, and they've got some ideas in their mind to play as a team? Yes, I get mad at officials like every coach may be more so than some coaches. But like, like my I'm not you're not going to want to be screaming and yelling on the bench in my games, oftentimes, like it's just, yeah, I don't think that's that's where the competitive nature comes out.
It comes out in in the Monday through Thursday.
[Jason] (14:56 - 15:20)
And generally, if you look at who's progressing in the game on the women's side, are there key attributes, whether it be size or speed or IQ or grade or compete level or or or any of that? And how has that been evolving over your time in the game? And similarly, it just be great to understand what you look for relative to the pack.
[Melanie] (15:20 - 16:48)
I think talking about some of the best players that I've ever been around, whether it's someone I've, you know, coached against or coached on our teams. Yes, there's tools, right? And, you know, speed, skating, like edge work, strength, scoring ability, all those things.
But I think you talked about it, the women's game has grown so much that to the point where and I'm in maybe someone challenged me in this, I almost wonder if you picked a you let the Olympic coach pick their team and then you let somebody else pick whoever's left after they pick that team. And you did that in US and Canada. I think it'd be a pretty good four team tournament.
And it could be like, you know, in three games series, you might see some splits happening there. Like that's how much talent I think we have in North America in particular. So what's the separator?
It's passion. Like I just said, like, like my dad didn't force me to do this. And like, now you better work on your quick feet and now go work on your shot.
And now if if players need that, they're not going to make it. There has to be some like, and not just internal motivation, you must love it. And I and I that's something that if you ask me play, I'm going to talk about all the time.
Why is my general focus on on our team atmosphere is being happiness is because if you don't love coming to the rank and the people you're doing it with, you're not gonna be very good. Like at the end of the day, you can do some things, score some goals, win some games. But like, you're not gonna be great if you don't love what you're doing.
[Jason] (16:48 - 17:57)
Yeah, I think at least on the boys side, it seems like it seems like that's something that a lot of parents really wrestle with in the sense that as the landscape gets harder, the rule changes and growth in the sport at the youth level rising relative to the spots for in in college and stuff like that. It's all right, if my kid wants to have a chance, and if they want to have a chance, they need to work harder, and they need to dial in and more. But they might not necessarily have the tools at whatever ease they are, right?
And so I need to help. But then all the things you do to help strip the joy out of the game. And if you don't retain the joy for the game, then you're not going to make it anyways.
Right? So it's it's kind of like, like, you don't know if you really have someone until you set them free. Yeah, it's super confusing to to navigate because you want your kid to have every opportunity.
But at the same time, like, they've got a one and so you want to like sit back and let them want it. But like, you don't want to have a situation like what I found myself in as a college player, which is that, you know, I, I didn't realize the opportunity I had. And now I look back in hindsight with regret, right?
And so yeah, I don't know. I don't know what advice you have for parents out there trying to navigate that tension, because pretty tricky.
[Melanie] (17:58 - 20:42)
I have zero advice for parents, because I have a two year old, and I have a month and a half old, right? So I'm not in any position to offer parents, but I will, I will say that it empathizes with parents. I don't doubt for a second that parents love their kids, right?
So like the what you're wrestling with is I think what most parents wrestle with. And I think what I've heard and read and seen even through my my older brother who, you know, has my one of my mises is a fantastic goaltender, like, entering her recruiting process, like, there's so much pressure of what team do you go on? What camps do you sign up for?
You know, like, do I make USA hockey this or that? And, and as a parent, you all you're hearing is in the stands of parents talking about the things they're doing and what they paid for. And I don't have advice.
I don't I empathize with it. I'm not looking forward to it. I hope my kids love some sports of some kind.
I know we're going to make them play some teams for us to learn how to be good teammates and good friends. But it's really, really hard because I wish I could say that in this day and age, that if you want to sort of if your end goal is to sort of get opportunities, there are things that you do have to do. Like, I would love to say, you know, you'll complete is one is one of my assistants and a very good friend and was a head coach at Yale before, you know, before leaving and ending up here with me, luckily.
And he's from Sweden. He talks about a lot of it in Europe. And, you know, they don't keep score until a certain age.
They don't, you're not allowed to travel outside of your town to play. There's no such thing as travel when you're eight years old. There might be something really to that, right?
Like I, North America, youth sports in general, I've heard people say this, it's completely broken. It's a business. But am I contribute to the business?
Yeah, I'm a college hockey coach who goes into scouts events. Like, so it's it is I wrestle with this too. It's like, what are we willing to support?
And it's something that our national coaching body has been talking about too is how can we how can we be the solution versus contributing the problem? Because I we've seen it and you call it you ask any women's college coach and maybe it's true in the men's side as well. You could go to, you know, six events between, you know, June 1st and July 30th, and you're going to see some kids all six times, you know, just chasing it, chasing it, chasing it.
And it's really hard. Like I really, like I said, empathize with with families because you don't want to you don't want to take your son or daughter out of an opportunity by choosing the wrong thing or not choosing something. But also, like, at what point does it become just another event?
And then there goes any kind of love or passion for it.
[Jason] (20:42 - 21:04)
Exactly. And I mean, I don't, I don't have answers either. And I mean, it's one of the reasons even though I was telling you before the show that I decided not try to build a company or have a livelihood in this category, I'll go do something else.
Like, I want to keep the show going because I still love the game. And I'm still not happy with the state of the state at the youth level. And I don't have answers for what a better way is, but I'm going to keep trying to sort through it.
[Melanie] (21:04 - 23:06)
And I think Jason, what helps it a little bit is it's very interesting. And this is this is a little bit of like being a woman in the women's game, right? I remembered I don't want to call anything out necessarily, like, but I remember being at an event, call it a speaking engagement conference, and someone is coming to speak to a group of people coaching the women's game, not necessarily all women, but who coach a women's game, right?
And women, what women understand is people, we're coaching people. I think that's what people who coach in our game, for the most part, we do really well, like we understand we're coaching human beings. And it's not we're not coaching x's and o's necessarily all the time.
And they brought in a speaker from the boys side and highly accomplished coach, teaching us about how happiness and joy of the game and we should be asking players what they like to do and getting to know their families. And it's and we're all sitting there going like, Yeah, yeah, right. And I bring this up because it's funny that it about, I would say, eight, nine years ago, you started to hear NHL coaches talking about this, like, I got to make sure that I'm checking in with my players as as just men.
And, you know, what's happening with their families and their wives and their kids, and I need to make sure that I recognize that they're people. And it's so we sometimes need the NHL, who's the peer, the pinnacle for the men for that to trickle down. Now, I don't think it's fully trickle down yet to you 10, you eight boys hockey because I still hear that dads are cursing at kids and yelling at them.
And, and you see these crazy things on social media, but I believe it will trickle down. I do, I believe it will trickle down. And I think that on the women's side, we're, we're a little bit more progressive in that way.
I am not saying that every women's program or girls youth program is perfect. But at least that part is sort of like something that's become popular that we are going to coach people versus coaching just a sport.
[Jason] (23:07 - 23:59)
And one thing I heard you say on the other podcast that you're on that I listen to, or one of them is that on at least the players that you work with, they tend to be, it's like their discipline and their focus and their drive athletically carries over into all aspects of their lives, including in the classroom. Like when I was growing up playing sport, that wasn't true on the boy's side at all, including me. I mean, I was the furthest thing from a strong student, but I know with my kids and I have one son and one daughter, I very much want them to be strong students and strong athletes and take the same discipline that they're applying in sports and apply it across all aspects of their life, including in the classroom and professionally one day.
But I'll tell you with, with the academies and with, and with the tournaments that you have to miss school for, like increasingly it feels like they're at odds. So how can we do a better job of parent as parents of coming out on the side that it sounds like your players are on?
[Melanie] (23:59 - 26:55)
You're right. It's so funny. Like I, it occurred to me, you know, it occurs to me every spring because spring is a busy time for recruiting that like I'm hustling out to an event that starts on Thursday night and all day Friday.
And I'm like, when do they go to school? Like Friday is like school optional. Like I don't quite understand.
I don't have a solution, but I'll tell you what, what if you look at a university schedule and this is, this is definitely hockey. I think basketball is really different. Maybe it's different animal, but like most hockey teams play their games Friday, Saturday, or Saturday, Sunday.
And that's men and women. You don't see a lot of like midweek games week after week. Like you might have a few throughout your season.
So isn't it interesting that our students at the college level are able to go to class, but our high school kids can't like, isn't it interesting? That's like the way the scheduling works. And now I am.
So I've been in the Ivy world for so long that maybe I have rose color glasses, but like, I will tell you, like, I think it's got to be really hard for students to, to get their work done. If they're missing class, you know, two days a week, like, I don't know how you do it. And so for me, I like selfishly, I want to stop this because we needed as many admissible Ivy students as we can to recruit over and over again.
Like I, it's, it is worrisome. Hockey academies, I don't have an issue with hockey academies, as long as they're also like, there's an educational component, like a real educational component. Because what I think sometimes is scary is that you make a decision about, you talked about with your son, right?
What kind of decision do I make? Do I make a decision that's hockey forward? And I'm willing to compromise at school.
Do I make a decision at school for that I might compromise hockey? Like, can I find something's holistic? Well, the dream is holistic.
I wonder if there's enough of holistic left. I mean, the hockey academy world has, has exploded. And it seems like people are so drawn to it now.
But at what cost? When I think about, and I don't remember a lot, because I'm older, and I forget high school. But like, when you look back as an adult, and you think about like your experiences, you do not remember the games, at least I don't, I don't remember the games and the scores and what this play of that play, I remember like, my friends in my, my environment and like, for hockey, the locker room, but like beyond that, like I had friends on the basketball team, and there was prom and they're like, the academy experience steals a little bit, maybe a lot of that, depending on the academy setup, like they don't have that.
And I don't know, like, should, should young people not have that whole experience? I don't know. I'm not, like I said, I'm not, I'm a parent of a one or a two year old and a two month old.
So I don't know.
[Jason] (26:55 - 27:24)
On the boys side, it seems like the pathway is evolving a lot with the, you know, rule changes with the Canadian major juniors and with the portal and with NIL and there's talk that, you know, that, that the prep schools might actually get younger and this trend of reclassing might, might alleviate a little bit as more kids aren't finishing prep and are going to juniors earlier. What are you seeing on the girls side? What does the pathway look like and how has it been evolving?
[Melanie] (27:25 - 28:55)
Everything's changing so quickly. I don't have the bandwidth to sort of guess what's coming next. And a little bit again, I'm going to, I'm going to preface this.
If you, if you talk to a coach from, you know, Penn State, right? I'll give that as an example. They're in a different world than I'm in at Brown University or any of us IDs, right?
Like, I think it just, it's, it's different, right? For, for some reasons there. But I think that, I think that a lot of legislation is, is changing and evolving and legislation that the NCAA is instituting is going to greatly impact decisions that kids made four years ago that were not even in the NCAA.
And I think that's scary. There was, you know, half the presses, there was a proposal this morning that was released that some of the effect of opening up the five-year eligibility, but that timeline begins the day you turn 19, the year you turn 19. So for instance, as a New Englander, and I, like I said, I went to public high school.
I've never really grasped like boarding school prep school. But a lot of now they made a decision maybe two years ago, and if this rule passed, they kind of put themselves behind eight ball already. You know what I mean?
Like, I can't guess, I can't guess what's going to happen. I'm not saying this proposal is or isn't going to go through. It's just, it's just, there's so much to grapple with in a legislation in the sports world.
[Jason] (28:56 - 29:05)
And so without being a futurist, if you just look at the here and now and the reality that you're living, what are the ponds that you fish in when you're trying to recruit for Brown?
[Melanie] (29:05 - 32:07)
You have to play at the highest level. So what does that mean? We talked about Minnesota.
It's fairly easy. Those, those women, they will get recruited. And if they're not on the premier high school team, which by the way, Minnesota, they don't actually play for their town anymore.
It seems that they all move addresses or go to whatever they do, which is hey, to each their own, right? So there is that, you know, putting yourself in a position to be in whatever program it is. So, but Minnesota is fairly easy.
I mean, they have opportunity everywhere. And then they have a elite league type season that, you know, you, you probably need to put yourself into and, or others, you know, spring or summer seasons that you can get a value in as well. So I think that's the easiest pocket.
The other really super easy pocket is Ontario. Ontario has a really, really deep league. I think it's the OWHL U-22, which is funny to call it U-22, because they're still like mostly like under the age of 19.
But, but those are like heavily recruited. They're not traveling all over the world to play hockey. Like you could never leave Ontario.
Coach will come to you and you'll get found. What's really hard is we're trying to keep growing the game. But if you live in California, even though there's some teams in California, you are being recruited as an eighth grader to go play for a hockey academy or whatever it is.
Right. And it's hard because if you stay home and other people leave, you are left with no one to play with. Right.
So those pockets, I use California because probably the biggest market, they probably could just stay home, but they don't. And then that they get spliced up. But there are plenty of markets, very hard to just to stay home.
You have to move away from home as a, as a young kid to play high level hockey as a high schooler, you know, maybe it's grade nine. So I think that is the trend outside of those like those hot hockey areas. Where do I see it going?
I think right now the hockey academies are driving it. And so it's, it's still going to keep pulling these young women into, you know, elite premier, whatever they want to call them, programs moving away from home. I think that's, that's sort of what it looks like right now.
I mean, like I said, I really believe in our, our, our coaching body and the NCAA division three and division one, that we will work to find a way to support keeping, not necessarily keeping kids home. I don't think we can control that, but I think we can maybe tap down on some of this recruiting that happens. So you're not having to go to every single event and spend millions of dollars.
I think we can, we can come to a point where we're making that better. I don't think it's going to happen tomorrow, but I think there's an appetite for that. And I think if we stop going these events, players don't feel the need to be there.
So I think there's some things that we can do to help. And I'm optimistic. I think there's a lot of people in our game, in the college game, who have now had kids of their own and they're like, Oh man, we might be part of the problem here.
And I think that that's something that I'm, I'm excited about, you know, what we might do as a coaching body to even make marginal change there to, to help families out a little bit.
[Jason] (32:08 - 32:33)
I mean, you talked about certain areas that are, you know, where the game is played at the highest level and fishing in those ponds. So when you're in those ponds and the ice is, you know, full of girls that are playing at that level, what are you looking for? And, and what are the things that, that, that, that they have to have coming in and, and, and that are, that you view as innate and what are the things that it's like, Oh, if they don't have it, it's okay, because I can teach those things.
[Melanie] (32:34 - 34:08)
Jason, it's evolving. It's evolving. I mean, I, the easy answer is, is skating and compete.
That's an easy answer. But there, there are players out there that maybe they don't skate that well, or at least it appears that like they don't look like great skaters, but they get around just fine. And why do they do that?
Cause they're so smart. So I think, you know, it is really easy and I'm not trying to sandbag, but it's really easy to recruit when you're just picking off the top. I think for, for everyone else, you really have to dig deep and to see like, once you've watched on the surface, who's got some talent and has some of those pieces, I think passion, compete, skating, fuck skills, IQ, making reads.
I think those are things all really important. We certainly are watching for some character things. I think women are really smart.
I don't think we see a lot of people, poor character displayed out there, but you don't want to have that in your program. But once you get past that, then you got to drive in deeper. Like, and I don't think there's a perfect way to do this, but like, are they going to love hockey two, three, four or five years from now?
Like, is that truly our priority? Or is it all just to get here? And that's, that is very tricky.
And it's not because people are being disingenuous. I just think that we are recruiting 15, 16, 17 year olds. Like, yeah, I don't, they're young.
Like, how are they supposed to know what they're going to feel like when they're 20 and they've got every opportunity around them and maybe they don't love it.
[Jason] (34:08 - 34:16)
And correct me if I'm wrong, but without the scholarship dollars for athletics, there's less repercussions to quit, right?
[Melanie] (34:17 - 35:33)
Yes. Maybe I've been really fortunate that we've hit the right people. We've had some that have left the game, but I don't think, yeah, I, no, I think like, I don't think it has anything to do with scholarship.
Like if I'm holding a kid on a, on a hockey team, because I'm hanging a scholarship over the head, that's not the right kid anyway, right? We go back to passion, right? And I know some coaches in the scholarship side of it, even when I was working at Providence College, like, yeah, you sometimes, you sometimes feel that like, are they just here so they don't have to pay for school?
Because there's some rules around taking a scholarship away. I think there's some kids that just play because they've always played and maybe they feel bad for their parents they don't play. Like, that's what I mean, like digging deep, like, do you really want to put this much effort into it?
It is not easy to be a division one hockey player. Like they're committing so much time and effort. And then, you know, we tell them all the time, then you also have to take care of your sleep and your nutrition and like, but they have two full-time jobs, they're student and athlete, like, so they have to love it.
Scholarship, non-school, whatever it is, like, it's a huge commitment. And I don't mean to even say division one. Division three, huge commitment.
Like, it's, it's a lot to play college hockey.
[Jason] (35:34 - 35:40)
Are you seeing similar trends to the boys side in terms of agents and advisors getting involved or is that not happening as much?
[Melanie] (35:41 - 36:29)
I think we're seeing it more and more. I think we're seeing it more and more. I will not for a second say it's even close to what the men are faced with.
Because I think what's happening on the men's side is tampering with the transfer portal. I know the NCAA just passed some rules there to try to hinder some of this tampering and moving players around and NHL and all this stuff. So we're not, it's not nearly that level.
But someone said to me recently, like, look out, everything's five years behind for the women. Like, it's coming. So I don't know.
Again, I always go back to you. I can admit that I am at times naive. I at times live in a little bit of my bubble that I'm in.
But I also, yeah, I'm aware that these things, they're always coming in cycles.
[Jason] (36:30 - 36:34)
Back to IQ, I've heard you say before that you like the video.
[Melanie] (36:35 - 37:48)
How do you use the video and can IQ be taught? I think that IQ can be taught. I think some of the best players are those people who watch hockey and not necessarily just watching their own game.
I'm a believer and this is not my idea. Many coaches have said it and I'm just repeating it that hockey is just a game of patterns. And there is this idea of mental reps can certainly help you in your game.
And so I think film, yes, breaking down our own film is really important for a team to get on the same page systematically. It's almost like forcing those mental reps. And so I definitely use it for all sorts of elements of our game.
We use it to break down our opponent and free scouts and showing some trends there that we can perhaps exploit. But I think for young players like watching hockey, not watching YouTube highlights, but like actually watching a period of hockey and picking a player. I think those are mental reps for sure.
And like how amazing that we have the PWHL now. Like now our women can watch our game of, you know, like it's just and it's amazing. I was watching a game last night.
I think it was. I watched a lot of Boston Fleet because they're on Nessen.
[Jason] (37:49 - 37:57)
I've not been, but I'm in Boston. I live in Brookline and I hear that those games are a lot of fun and really, really well done. It's like a great experience.
In addition to being great hockey, it's a great experience.
[Melanie] (37:58 - 39:29)
Yeah. And I have a former player in the fleet, Shay Maloney, who she's now playing on the top line and power play and she's doing great for them. But like, it's a cool game.
It's a cool game to watch. And there's a lot to be learning from that because that's, you know, that it's the top of the pyramid. You know, like the Olympics were remarkable.
Like the Olympics this year were outstanding. Our division one national championship game was amazing. I don't know how, if you, if you saw it, but that Wisconsin house state game was amazing hockey.
Like I would say those teams could be in the PWHL. Like that was, they're pretty stacked anyways, but like there's a really good hockey out there that we can watch for the women. NHL is hard to watch for women because I'm just going to stay at the obvious.
Like they, they're just bigger, stronger. Like it's a different game, right? They can do some things.
Like I was just talking to a goalie today about the fact that like they make these seam passes that are going a hundred miles an hour that the guy can turn around at a one time or without question and hit the top shelf. And it's like, I'm like, how do the goalies make any saves? Right.
But that the goalies are also quick, right? And some of our women are now doing those things, but you know, it's the, their game is different still. It's still a different game.
Our PWHL game is very much what our game is a little bit more physical, but I wouldn't call it good physical. I'm not personally like a fan of some of the things that I think should just be called interference. But I think it's incredibly skilled so fast.
I think there's really good coaching. Yeah, it's a fun game to watch.
[Jason] (39:30 - 39:39)
It'd be great to dig a little bit into your coaching philosophy, how you go about operating as a coach today, but also how that's different from you started coaching so many years ago.
[Melanie] (39:39 - 42:09)
Like today, like, and I think today is really like a two year old today, because what I mean by that is when I first got here to Brown, you know, I was taking over a program that we were trying to develop and push and get to the next level. And so I really was a chameleon and coaching in some ways to kind of raise our level and get us to where we needed to be. And, you know, I think probably, you know, last season was like where we really started to dial into being a team of identity and having really much a process focus on like playing to our game and having a more and more clear sense from a player to player standpoint, what that means.
I mean, this year, I think we took another step forward in terms of playing to an identity. And then, you know, even our postseason meetings with our returning players talking about their individual contributions to that identity and what they can do in their games based on the skill sets they already have, that they can kind of create like a really good foundational controllable. Jada Gilman, our team is always say your B game, like your your average, like what can you do every single day?
And then I think we dug into that a little bit in this off season. So the players can just be focused and dialed in on their training this off season and and know sort of what their expectation is and what kind of role they're going to fill. So for me, I think like from a building stylistic, like I want a fan of our team to be able to say, like, yep, this is our identity.
I want them to walk in the rink, watch and say, like, yep, I see exactly what it is. And it doesn't change from game to game. I think where does that come from?
I think I'm a type A personality. Like I wouldn't, you know, I used to call myself a bit of a control freak. I'm not actually I learned that about myself that I don't there's very little I care to control.
I don't care what the players wear, except for a lift. I want them to match at lift. But I don't I love having really genuine, unique locker room with all kinds of women in it.
I I think there's a lot of different ways to score goals and things like that. But I think from a structural standpoint, I'm type A in that sense that like, this is how I want us to defend. This is how I want us to look.
This is our purpose in the situation. And I think that comes from like, I think we're a team that will always be successful because we are six players on the ice playing together. Like, I don't think we're a team that we're just going to have one superstar that we're going to send the puck out to and have them go score a goal.
I think we're we're a full team playing together.
[Jason] (42:09 - 42:14)
What about the balance of structure versus creativity or habits versus systems?
[Melanie] (42:15 - 44:17)
I think that creativity is to me when we have the puck. And that doesn't mean it's a free for all. I think that a team can use our creativity if they have some expected like release points and like some different things that we're looking for as a collective.
I think creativity without any sort of structure turns into one on one hockey. And that's not what we want to play. We want to play as offensively as a five player unit.
But I think there's a chance that there's a lot of different options that they can read often. The structure of the system is when we don't have it. How we forecheck, how we reload, how we defend.
And I'm not happy with our neutral zone. We got to keep getting better. It's my coaching and I got to get better.
But like, yeah, like when we don't have it, that's when I think that it's structure. It's being on the same page and having a role and a job. The habits, the details, like I think, again, that's the same thing to me.
I think when we don't have the puck, we need to have we have have some team habits. We're a big team that that thrives on leading with our sticks, getting sticks on pucks, disrupt. So I don't I think if you're if you're F1 and you decide your own way where you're going to like mirror and kind of float around, that's really hard for F2 to operate.
We have to know what F1 is doing. Stick extended, get in there, disrupt pucks so we can be aggressive and be an F2, right? When we have the puck, yeah, I think there's absolutely an element for creativity because everyone's filling spots and being options off of that that creative player who hey, I'm a drive wide, get to the post type kid.
I'm a pull up, control skate, find second wave, or change the speed, like that's all really appreciated because that's how you create offense. If we played like we've played against teams that they're really easy to play against because we know exactly what they're going to do like the net drive and then we look for the seam and okay, this is how we're going to defend it. I think we have to allow our players just to have some creativity and fun and free wheel a little bit offensively so we're not easy to play against.
[Jason] (44:18 - 44:24)
Are you seeing things like the portal or NIL infiltrate in the women's game?
[Melanie] (44:25 - 46:11)
If you look at, we're just nearing the close of the portal now. I didn't think so this year. A year ago I wondered, there was some interesting things happening a year ago.
This year, no. I like where the portal is at. I serve on the women's division one committee.
So we had a vote to change the transfer portal. That was an immediate impact change. So it opened up the Monday after the national championship and it's a smaller window, tighter window.
It used to be much, much longer. So I like the structure of it now. There's also a new transfer window that once a new coach is hired, those players have an opportunity to enter the portal if they feel like it's not a good fit because I think what we're really getting down to is you go back to doing things the right way.
I think the way the portal operates now, assuming everyone's, there's no tampering, whatever. Hopefully it makes sure that if players made the wrong decision, they can find a way to correct it. That is again, once again, naive Mel, but that's how I choose to see things.
I choose to see I don't want to make rules or support rules to try to weed out bat and apples. I think that the transfer portal should be an opportunity for you to correct mistakes. I mean, there's plenty of players that get recruited and then they never touch the ice and there's no intention to get there.
Like, man, you don't, you said it, you regretted leaving playing hockey, right? I don't think there's players that want to feel like they're going to join a roster and get buried and there's never an intention of ever playing. Like then all, by all means, like try to go somewhere else and you can have that opportunity.
So I think that sometimes we form rules around that apples and I don't think that's, that's good either.
[Jason] (46:12 - 46:38)
So you, you mentioned on this show, I listened to you come on from a few years ago, you were talking about how you really valued self-improvement and that as a coach, the higher the level you climb, the harder it is to find mentors. Where are you at today in terms of like, how do you foster that continued self-improvement since you were already at a high level then? And presumably you've achieved even more mastery today.
[Melanie] (46:38 - 47:42)
I think it's still really hard to find mentors in our own game in women's hockey because it still remains very, very small. I'm really lucky within our own coaching staff that Joachim was a head coach at Yale. We worked together at Harvard.
He's seen it all, right? And so I have a mentor right next door. And I think Beth Hanrahan has actually just left town.
She's coaching worlds for Great Britain and growing her career and serving in a head coaching role there. And she's someone who loves hockey and is watching film and grabbing things off of, off of Instagram. And she's another person that can open my mind as well and challenge.
And I think because our staff, like Beth and I have been together for a long time. I've known UK for a very, very long time. So I think there's like, hopefully like a comfort level where there is no head coach, you know, like, yes, I have to make the decisions and I got to be sometimes a bad guy.
But I think like we've got a bunch of really good ideas in the room. And so that that's been refreshing for sure to have that.
[Jason] (47:44 - 48:02)
When you look to the future, what do you wish in terms of the future of the women's game? And because I always seem to ask my questions in twos, if there was something that you could change that would most impact the women's game in a, in a better direction, what would it be and why?
[Melanie] (48:04 - 50:58)
I think that I wish women would think a little bit more like men. And what I mean by that is men want to be the guy on a team. And so that's why I think you always see, and I think that's going backwards now because of NIL and money, but like, there are different programs that pop off because guys are like want to be the guy and that team gets better, right?
We have had four straight years of Wisconsin play Ohio State and national title. Why is that? It seems like all the Olympians go to those two teams, right?
Like I would, and they have people on those teams that don't even touch the ice that could be great players elsewhere, right? And I'm not, I'm not picking on those, those two programs. I'm just using that as like, you know, it's been the same top teams for a long long time.
Another people pop in, like we've, we've popped in national rankings, like, but like, I want women to be the woman. I want them to like go to a program and be like, yeah, I believe in myself. And I think I credit my graduating class this year.
And, and galleys included that too, but galley transferred to us. But, but Janet Gilla, uh, India McDaddy and Ellie Gaben, like they came here and they changed Brown, like they will forever be a part of Brown hockey and names that are talked about because of what they did here, right? I want more women to, to do that, that they aren't just going to the same school to join their buddy who's already there and they know it's going to be easy and they're going to win every game.
And I think that's something I'd like to see happen. I'd also like to see like, um, like the PWHL have incredible success. I think that I probably can do a better job of like physically supporting and getting the games.
I'm sort of a little tied down with the kids, but like, like, I think we need that league and we should all want that league to have incredible success because, um, I, I think we need to keep attracting great athletes to our sport. The, the danger that we have in hockey is it's so expensive. And I think that that can be a major barrier.
Um, and so I think we want the PWHL to be super successful to have women's hockey in front of young girls and that when they're choosing between, you know, hate to say it, it's hard soccer. Sorry. I want to take the best athletes and put them in our sport and, and that'll continue to grow because it is a, I say this to people.
The reason I think like, um, I'm good friends with our field hockey coach at Brown and I, I may have mentioned this the other day, like when it comes down to it, like we might like, she might be like, oh, are you recruiting this kid? Like she's really good field hockey kid. And I'm like, well, she'll choose hockey.
Why will they always choose hockey at the end of the day? There is something like uniquely special about the locker room. Like the, there's something uniquely special about being a hockey player, particularly a women's hockey player.
And so I think if we can just keep grabbing the best athletes, like I think that makes our sport grow so, so much.
[Jason] (50:59 - 51:13)
Well, I really appreciate you coming on the show and having such a wide range of discussion. I've learned a lot. Is there anything I didn't ask you that you wish I did or any parting words you'd like to leave with listeners?
[Melanie] (51:14 - 52:05)
Um, maybe not missing anything, but I, I think you hit on it and I think that, um, like hockey has to be fun. And, and I, I hope, um, that when my son and daughter get to the point where they're playing youth hockey, that their coach realizes that their number one job is to have fun and instill confidence. I think if this show can sort of like knowing that that's sort of what you're looking at, like, oh man, how can we make youth hockey even better too?
And like, I think if people can understand that that's actually going to make players better. Um, I think that's something that is a message that I'd love for, for you to keep carrying on and, um, highlighting those coaches that do a great job. There's plenty of great youth coaches that, um, maybe they win a ton, maybe they don't, but their players love hockey and they want to play all day, every day.
Um, there's something that should be said for those coaches.
[Jason] (52:05 - 52:35)
I mean, that is the thing that I am wrestling with on the show is, you know, like the steel sharpened steel or, or should you be in a big fish in a little pond? And is it about joy and love or, or, or is it about like sacrifice and suffering? Right.
And yeah, I mean, I like, there is a tension there, but, but to your, your point, if you don't retain the joy, like you're not going to make it no matter what else you do. And even if you make it for a period of time, it's, it's, it's not going to end well.
[Melanie] (52:35 - 53:15)
I mean, I don't want to belong still, but like, they're not mutually exclusive. Like joy and challenging young people are not mutually exclusive. Like I think I go back to my dad, like it wasn't like he was like, you know, we're all picking dandelions in the grass at the softball field.
No, like, but because like, we felt like our coach was confident in us and was like, oh, believing we could do some things, then he could challenge us. And then it was fun. Cause we saw that we could do new things.
Like it's, it's hard work to be a coach. It's hard work to be a coach, but like, man, like you can change people's lives. You can also change them in a really bad way.
So let's not do that. Let's, let's change them in a really positive way.
[Jason] (53:15 - 53:38)
Well, again, thank you so much for coming on the show. Best of luck to you and to Brown in the upcoming season. And I can't wait to watch.
Thanks, Jason. Have a good one. You too.
Thanks for listening to puck Academy. If you enjoyed this episode, follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcast and share it with someone serious about their game. See you next week.