This interview features Colin Wilson, a former NHL player who played 11 seasons with the Nashville Predators and Colorado Avalanche. As a third-generation NHL player, Colin discusses the roles of nature and nurture in his hockey journey, sharing insights from his upbringing in a hockey-centric family. He reflects on his career, lessons learned, and the transition to post-hockey life, including his struggles with injuries and sobriety. The conversation also explores the evolving landscape of hockey development and the potential for digital platforms to democratize access to quality training and mentorship. Colin shares his perspectives on balancing ambition with enjoying life, his current academic pursuits at NYU, and his future aspirations in impact investing and political economy.
In this episode, former professional ice hockey player Colin Wilson, who played 11 seasons in the NHL with the Nashville Predators and Colorado Avalanche, discusses his journey in the sport. As a third-generation NHL player, Colin delves into how genetics and family environment (nature and nurture) influenced his development. He shares insights on his upbringing, the mentorship from his father and grandfather, and the competitive landscape of growing up in Winnipeg. Colin reflects on his career, his transition out of professional hockey due to injury and addiction recovery, and his current academic pursuits at NYU. The conversation also explores broader themes of youth sports development, ambition, balancing pressures, and the potential of digital platforms to democratize access to elite training and mentorship. Colin's experiences and reflections offer a thoughtful perspective on what it takes to succeed in hockey and life.
00:00 Introduction to Colin Wilson
00:25 Exploring Nature vs. Nurture in Hockey
01:25 Colin's Journey in the NHL
03:27 Early Beginnings and Family Influence
06:25 Challenges and Competitiveness in Youth Hockey
08:36 Parental Influence and Self-Drive
24:53 Transitioning from Hockey to Life Beyond
31:01 Reflecting on Personal Experience and Stress
31:40 Changes in Hockey Development Pathways
32:15 The Cost of Hockey and Social Inequality
33:23 Positive Developments in Hockey Skills
34:01 Challenges of Balancing Development and Enjoyment
37:42 Potential of Digital Platforms for Hockey Training
40:42 Cross-Training and Year-Round Play
43:09 Parental Perspectives on Youth Sports
52:54 Exploring Career Paths Post-Hockey
54:56 Future Involvement in Hockey and Advice for New Ventures
Jason Jacobs: Today on the next next our guest is Colin Wilson. Colin is a former professional ice hockey player, a forward, he played 11 seasons in the NHL for the National Predators and Colorado Avalanche. He was drafted seventh. Overall by the predators in the 2008 NHL entry draft. He's also the son of a former NHL player and the grandson of a former NHL player.
So hockey is literally in his blood. Now. I was excited for this one because one of the things that I've been exploring is that clearly when hockey is quote unquote in your blood. Nature plays a role in that, right? Genetics passed down from generation to generation, and nature is not something that can be controlled, but nurture also has a role, right?
You have to imagine that growing up surrounded by people that have played hockey at the highest levels. And by the way, this isn't just a hockey thing. This is any sport or any craft for that matter. Having those kinds of role models and that [00:01:00] kind of perspective at the dinner table growing up goes a long way on your development path.
And so one of the things I've been looking at is for those that didn't grow up with that kind of access, but aspire to play the game at the highest levels, or at least to reach their fullest forum in the sport, could you package that type of insight and make it accessible to everybody else? Now we have a great discussion in this episode about.
Colin's path in the sport, what type of guidance he got from his dad and his grandfather and his family along the way. Uh, how self-directed he was and, and at what point he took the reins with his own journey. And we also talk about lessons learned with the benefit of hindsight, looking backwards, what things he would change the state of the sport today, where it's going, how it's different than when he was growing up.
And, uh. And what path he might see for himself and for his daughter and family in the game looking forwards. [00:02:00] Colin, welcome to the show. I.
Okay. Colin Wilson, welcome to the show.
Colin Wilson: Yeah. Thank you for having me.
Jason Jacobs: I'm just pouring a healthy soda here as I'm, I'm getting going in my sweaty running clothes too, so unprofessional on a number of different levels, but I'm talking to a hockey guy, so I feel like, I feel like hopefully that's okay. More okay than if I was talking to an investment banker or something.
Colin Wilson: Yes, I've been there.
Jason Jacobs: Um, well, hey, I, I really appreciate you making the time. Um, it's a little daunting to, uh, to, to have this be one of the earliest hockey discussions. I feel like I'm jumping right to the black diamond here. Um, but, uh, you know, we chatted offline and, uh, and we have a lot to talk about, and you just have so much experience that's relevant for the kinds of things that I'm thinking about.
So I'm just so grateful for you making the time to share it with me and, and share it with listeners as well.
Colin Wilson: Yeah, no problem. I mean. Yeah, as per our conversation offline, that ended up leading to [00:03:00] this. Yeah. It seems as though we have a, yeah, a few things that are parallel in line with each other. So happy to have the conversation.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, well, for, for starters, Colin, me, and by the way, should I, I, I, I've listened to some pods where you have your buddies on there, and I know they call you Willie. What should I call you? I'm like setting myself up for rejection here, but I'm, I'm going for it.
Colin Wilson: Call Colin or Willie. They, they're interchangeable, so Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: I'll stick with Colin. Um, but yeah, but, but maybe, maybe talk a bit about, um, about your time in the NHL, but also, uh, how you entered the sport, right?
Because I know you come from a, you know, I think you're what, third generation? NHL?
Colin Wilson: Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. So it'd just be interesting for me to hear both. You know, for listeners a bit on your time in the league, but then, um, but then to go back in time and look at like how you came to find the sport in the first place.
[00:04:00] 'cause I, I think that's really interesting just in terms of like nature and nurture and a bunch of stuff that I'm kind of trying to pressure test and figure out so that I don't end up building something that, um, uh, with, with false assumptions.
Colin Wilson: Yeah, I mean, in terms of, I guess I'll start from more so the beginning, entering the game, but it was, uh, I don't know if you're from Winnipeg, you, you play hockey as you mentioned. I'm a third generation. NH lr. Uh, well ended up being so, you know, my dad and grandfather had played, um, so I mean, I was skating, I was skating at three in a league before I turned four.
Um, so it's just kinda what you did. Like, I, I think back, and I think there was like two kids who their, their primary sport was one was like basketball, one was football, and they were kind of. Like the weird kids, everybody just played hockey. Um, so
Jason Jacobs: did, did everyone start that young, Colin, or, or, or is that just what third generation or, you know, uh, sons and grandsons of, of former NH Ls do.
Colin Wilson: no, I think [00:05:00] everybody started that young. I mean, if it's, if it's, uh, you know, min, the, the ice starts freezing over in November, uh, so you can start skating on the pond in November in Winnipeg. So, you know, it's something, it's an activity to do and an activity to do outside. So I think, you know, and there's a lot of, uh, pride around it in Canada, uh, in Winnipeg where I'm from.
So it's, um, I think everybody, I think everybody starts at that age. Like I know I have a, I have a niece now starting in, she started around four or five, so, um, yeah, I think it's just a, yeah. Part of the community. Um, but then, yeah, as you move up, I mean, I, I ended up going to college. I'll kind of go through the whole stages, but my dad played Dartmouth, so he wanted me to do the college route.
But entering the NHL, I mean, it really was a, um. Yeah, I mean, it's a dream come true. I mean, it was very cool getting drafted felt like the very first step. I mean, the first draft rankings before I got drafted felt like a tiny step where I felt like, okay, I'm gonna be drafted and drafted high. Um, but no, it, it was great.
There was, um, it was very [00:06:00] competitive. Um, 82 games is a lot of games. The schedule is quite hard. Um, but I've had some, you know, had some of the best experiences in my life and, uh, some very difficult experiences as well. Um, but, you know, as a, as a whole, you know, it was, it was my whole twenties, you know, played my first game at 19, played my last of 30.
Um, so it was a good decade,
Jason Jacobs: Uh, and at, at what point in your youth, like when you started out, was it just fun or, or were we always chasing the dream?
Colin Wilson: uh, chasing the dream from as early as I can remember. I mean, I remember I. I mean, you start having cuts. I, I remember my very first traveling team where you had to make it was called the Junior Jets. Um, and I remember that my dad telling me that, uh, they're coming out to scout me for a game. And that was at seven, I think, uh, ended up making the team.
Um, but I remember being very nervous for it, [00:07:00] um, at seven. So, I don't know. I mean, it gets competitive and it gets competitive early. I mean, I can't complain because I think, I mean, I was just thinking about it the other day, how competitive me and all my friends were. Um, and it certainly helped me. So, you know, it's, it gets, you know, has its, uh, positives and negatives.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, and at that time, was it you chasing the dream or was it everyone around you that was also chasing their dream? Like was that just what, what the kids did in, in Winnipeg?
Colin Wilson: Yeah. So again, yeah, everybody was chasing the NHL. I mean, it was, uh, I don't know, at least everybody around me was. Heating, sleeping and dreaming, drinking hockey. Um, so yeah, I mean, me and all my friends, everybody wanted to make the NHL. Everybody was very competitive with one, one another. We all wanted to beat each other out.
And that was from, yeah, seven on Everybody was worried about making the top team getting, getting more ice time leading the league. So I think it, I mean, if you're from [00:08:00] Canada, um, it is a very competitive landscape and it really is one sport. Um, so I think you know, everybody, and like parents, coaches, everybody has hockey on their mind all the time.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, and, and back then when the kids were coming up, and I, I know the game's changed a lot, which we can also talk about, but, um, w how much of it came from the kid and how much of it came from the parents and what was, what was the parents' role in the development process? And I'll ask that both in general, um, with the kids around you, but also with you specifically.
Colin Wilson: Um, yeah, me specifically, my, um, while I cer I was born, I guess I was born driven and had, I did have this dream, I'm sure, you know, I can't remember, you know, I don't have memory. I passed a certain age, but, um, I'm, so, I'm sure that my dad, you know, there's some subconscious wiring there, knowing that my dad was a hockey player and my grandfather was a hockey player.
[00:09:00] Um, but no, we all tended to, uh, we had that dream. But yeah, my dad certainly pushed me. My grandfather certainly pushed me. Um, I. We took a lot of pride in it. Um, and I think as you looked around at my friends, a lot of parents were also, you know, they certainly took, they certainly all wanted their kid to make the NHL.
Uh, some took it more seriously than others. Um, but there was definitely some battling going on. And like, if you get cut, which I actually did get caught one year, it's a pretty like, it's like devastating to your family almost. Um, so it's, it's a, it's a weird animal.
Jason Jacobs: Um, in what way did your dad and grandfather push you?
Colin Wilson: Um, well, I, I, I used to make jokes, so when I made the US national team, 'cause, so I'm from Canada, half Canadian, or pardon me, half American, because I was born in Greenwich, but when I made the, I, when I made the US National team, all these guys are like throwing baseballs and footballs and, and I [00:10:00] didn't, and they're like, what's going on?
I'm like, well, my dad was dropped. I, I was working on my face offs in the garage while you guys were, I. Doing that other stuff. So like that's kind of, you know, I was, you know, I was nine or 10 and we're, you know, reviewing film, um, getting pucks dropped from me in the garage. There was a, um, a batting cage that got turned into ice for your, uh, so you could go practice your shot.
So, you know, we'd videotape my shot and this is with the handheld camera, and then we'd go back to my house and review my shot. Um, so, you know, he was quite hands on. And my dad, my dad was my coach for the traveling teams. Never in my teams. Uh, during the winter, uh,
Jason Jacobs: was he, was he still playing when you were coming up?
Colin Wilson: no he wasn't, he had retired. Uh, probably my earliest memory was me at around three years old, USRI finally getting to Winnipeg from his, like retirement where we moved to.
Um, so yeah, he, he was done pretty much. But, uh, you know, when I was a kid.[00:11:00]
Jason Jacobs: And if, if I had, you probably don't remember, but if I had him here to ask in those early years, um, uh, was it, you know, did he have to beat you over the head to get you to, to do the stuff? Did you want, were you hungry to do it? Were you just doing it to make him happy? Like what, what, what, what was the motivation from your standpoint at the time?
Colin Wilson: I think it was a com. It was a combination of things. I mean, there was, I mean, I can tell there's times like where I'd cer I'd be rolling my eyes at at a young age. Certain things where I felt like it was going, going a little bit over the top. But I mean, what I was happy to do and what we did a ton was, I mean, we just go to the outdoor rink, you know, and pass the puck around and play shinny and you know, that, that you, you didn't have to tell me to do anything.
I could go, I'd go there and be there all day, and if my dad was there, that'd be even better. Um, so I think that there was. I had a decent amount of drive and motivation. And then at the same time, some [00:12:00] of it was his own push. Um, you know, and so it was, it was a combination of both, but certainly a more, probably I had more push, uh, than other other parents, uh, in my group had.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, and when you think back to your youth, the little guys that were standing out in your earliest years, uh, was, was it the same leadership pack as you got older or did it get turned on its head, you know, with puberty and checking and girls and booze and whatever?
Colin Wilson: Um, it did get, it got turned on its head. I mean, I will, um, I guess I'll speak with some humility, but I'll try to, so I was like, I mean, I remember up until about 13 I was always. The leader in the league in points or like, if not first, second, pretty, pretty easily. And [00:13:00] then from, yeah, between 12 and 15, all these other kids hit puberty.
I didn't, so all of a sudden, all these kids were quite large. They surpassed me. I got cut from a team. They all made the track. The year old, you know, the 15 to 17-year-old team, I, and I got, uh, left back. But, um, you know, those guys, you know, they grow, they, they, they stopped growing after that. And then all of a sudden I hit, and then I grew, uh, quite a bit larger than a lot of them.
But, um, no, they're, I mean, in my friend group also, what, like, I mean, probably my best friend growing up, he was a first rounder to the NHL. He was a goalie. Um, and he, he would, he remained, you know, the top goalie in Winnipeg for a very long time. But no, there is a, a weird jockeying and positioning. But with that being said, all my friends who like kind of surpassed me for those times, the, they were always one of the top players in Winnipeg most of the time.
So.
Jason Jacobs: With the benefit of hindsight, um, uh, you know, you, you hear people [00:14:00] say, um, the best kids are self-directed from the early stage. Like they always know they're, that they're going for it. Like anytime you wanna find little Timmy, he was out in the back shooting pox. Right? Um, never had to ask him once.
Totally hands off, just let the kid be a kid. Right. Um, and what I'm hearing from you is not the other extreme. It's, it's more of a hybrid, right? Where it's like, well, yeah, I wanted it, but like my dad also pushed and was hands on and gave me drills and videotaped and, and did all that. Um, do you think about like, the height can come later, right?
Um, can the self-directed come later or do you have it or you don't?
Colin Wilson: Um, I think that there is some self-direction. I mean, there not, I mean, we'll go, I guess like in terms of work ethic, I mean, there were, there were four, four guys out of Winnipeg who made the NHL who were like. Not even making the AAA team. They were always, but they just like played hard, kept at it and they didn't have [00:15:00] much skill and they, they found a way through.
Um, but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I go back and forth because like even then I look at some people, some people don't have the pressure on them and they just have a, um, you know, innate attributes to just kind of be calm and enjoy themselves and maybe that's what drives them. So you never know what, what's driving people.
And then also you never know if that dad who's saying that, oh, Timmy's self-directed is full of shit. He could definitely be full of shit.
Jason Jacobs: Wow. People do say a lot of things around the
Colin Wilson: Yeah. People I wouldn't trust, I don't trust what anybody says about most things when it's like an end of one anecdotal thing. But, um, I don't know. Self, self-drive is good.
There is something, there is something to instilling a process, you know, for the greatest, um, I wouldn't say the greatest, I guess that shouldn't be like that, but a huge. Um, you know, looking into the future, you can tell if somebody's going to develop depression or not. If they have a goal [00:16:00] oriented mindset or a process oriented mindset.
And if you, so to say process is you're most likely going to have a healthier, healthier mindset throughout everything. So probably that's better. That's the best thing to develop.
Jason Jacobs: I just, it sounds, that sounds like an important point. I didn't really catch it. I wanna make sure I understand it. So you said that, uh, so is someone that has a process that affects whether they'll, um, develop depression one way or another. That's an indicator of potential for developing depression.
Colin Wilson: it's, it's a no Well it's a huge, uh, buffer against depression is being process oriented. Yes. Versus being
Jason Jacobs: so that way, that way if you, if you get into a dark place, it's like the process will keep the train on the tracks kind of thing. Is that the, is
Colin Wilson: Well, I think you just don't get as anxious or worried 'cause you're not worried about the outcome and you're just kind of enjoying yourself in the moment and. So if you're process oriented, you're not gonna develop, you're not gonna develop those issues. Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: It, it, it reminds me a bit of blackjack where it's like, um, if you don't know what the book [00:17:00] says, then it's like you stress about any individual hand. Right? Um, but if you're really well versed on what the book says, then you're just committed philosophically to following the book. Then you don't have to think.
It's like, well, I'm just gonna follow the book and I'm not gonna worry about if I win or I lose. Because over time, if I follow the book, that gives me the best probability of long-term success.
Colin Wilson: Yeah. And hard for human minds to stay along along those lines. But yeah,
Jason Jacobs: exactly. It's easy to say, right? But in
Colin Wilson: easy to
Jason Jacobs: in the moment, yeah. When, uh, when you know when the flame gets turned up right, it's, uh, it's, it's harder to tow that line. Um, so I mean, another thing you hear around the ranks is. The odds are so stacked against you if anyone thinks their kid's gonna end up in the show, like, you might as well just quit the game now because that's incredibly unhealthy.
Like, you do it for the love, you do it for long-term habits, but like no one, you know is gonna end up in the show. Right. And, um, if you had that mindset, and granted you had some success stories to point to that happened to, you know, be blood relatives and, uh, and who you spent a lot of time with, [00:18:00] um, uh, in the rinks and otherwise.
But, um, uh, if you had that mindset, like, would you have ever, ever ended up in the show? Like how, what do you, what do you think about that line of, of thought and what would you say to those people? And maybe you agree with them. I don't
Colin Wilson: no. I mean, somebody's, somebody has to end up there. There's people there. So I mean most, I mean, most difficult things in life are gonna be, I. You know, the statistical probability is going to be low. I mean, there's gonna be a huge filter to get there, but, um, so doesn't matter the probability. If you think that, I mean, if you think you can work hard and you have some talent, and I mean, you might as well go for it.
I mean, it's kind of like you, anything worth achieving is quite difficult. So, um, might as well do it. And then at the same time, I don't know. I mean, if people want to take that, people want to use that probability more as a process oriented. My thought, I'm just bringing that up again because it sounded as though you're kind of the people who are saying that are also saying, just enjoy it because you're not gonna make it.
[00:19:00] I mean, I don't know if you should have the impetus this of that, but it, it still, maybe if you just enjoy yourself in the moment, whatever happens, happens, that's fine. But, um, I don't know. I was, I was eight and thinking I would make it. So I don't know if that, maybe that's just arrogance and Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: And, um, was it, was it clear relative to others at the T? Like did you stand out in those early years?
Colin Wilson: I stood out, but I mean, I stood out in Winnipeg, you know, which actually it's crazy. This is as much our age group, I think within my age group, plus five years, minus five years. That spread a lot. A lot of guys in the NHL made it or made it to the NHL. Um, but so yeah, kind of hard, kind of hard to say.
Jason Jacobs: Um, re remind me, Colleen. So you've got, is it one kid today?
Colin Wilson: One kid today, yes.
Jason Jacobs: Uhhuh and it, uh, a little girl,
Colin Wilson: Little girl. 2-year-old. Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: 2-year-old. Um, [00:20:00] and, um, with the benefit of hindsight, um, and I know your, you know, your little girl is, well, maybe she's ready for skate soon. I don't know. It sounds like you were on skates, not too, not too older than, than she is now.
But, um, uh, but what is your advice to parents in terms of the. Health, the Goldilocks balance, right? Like of, of, of pressure, like the, you know, enough, but not too much.
Colin Wilson: I think I'll be able to, I'll have a better answer for answer for you in four or five years. I'm, I'm looking towards, again, I, what I described to you, if I would've had a better pro, like I watched the best player, like a Drew Dowdy had a process oriented mindset. You know, the guy could just go out there and play and he enjoyed himself in, I mean, he had a ton of talent, but I, I think just instilling that mindset, always being balanced.
Um, I. You know, life is challenging. Just all those things. Um, I think [00:21:00] I would, I don't think I would push much. Like I would, I would never be like, Hey, go grab, you know, if she's gonna be a hockey player, I'd never be like, Hey, go grab your stick. We're going outside. I would just kind of be like, Hey, you wanna play, you know, ask stuff like that.
Like, I mean, but you know, with that, all that being said, I also don't know how I'll be if I start getting attached to it.
Jason Jacobs: the, and for the record, I've seen a lot of people, uh, with little kids, judge the hockey parents with older kids and then become them.
Colin Wilson: Yes.
Jason Jacobs: I'm just gonna put that out
Colin Wilson: That's why. But that's why I, uh, well, you spoke, I guess you're going, you're most likely gonna have Matt Calvert on. It's funny. He's the guy who who told me he is like, man, you know, it's, it's crazy. All of a sudden I'm watching my kids' game and I'm starting to get like, emotional seeing.
Jason Jacobs: He's in it. He's in it. I know, like he's, he's, he's like the ghost of Christmas future for you, I
Colin Wilson: Yes. So I, I will not, that's why in four, in four or five years, I'll have a better answer and a more honest answer.
Jason Jacobs: Uh huh. Another thing that's on my [00:22:00] mind is there's a lot of talk about nature versus nurture, right? Um, you know, how much of it is the fact that you have the genetics of being a third generation NH lr, right? And, and how much of it is the nurture of the fact that you grew up in a household with a dad who is an NH lr?
And then I also wonder about, um, physical nature verse nurture, and then mental nature verse nurture, right? Because there's a lot of talk too about, well, some kids like, oh yeah, they didn't have the physical attributes, but man, their level of compete is off the charts. Like no one has the grit that that kid has, or, you know, like, that kid just won't lose.
Right. Um, and so I guess, how do you think about, um, nature versus nurture and how do you think about it physically and mentally?
Colin Wilson: Yeah, I mean, kind of, kind of exactly what you describe, I mean. I didn't, I'm very lucky to get the height and the build that I got. Um, I didn't choose those things. I, they were just given to me. I mean, with that being said, I worked hard, but even then you could argue, I mean, this is almost like a Sam [00:23:00] Harris talk on free will, but I didn't, I mean, I didn't choose my mentality, even if it was instilled by me, by my experiences or my dad, I didn't choose those either.
I mean, it's great that I have those, but I can't necessarily break it down to, I chose to, to work that hard. But I mean, with that being said, getting outta the free will talk, I did, I do remember, I mean, being in college and just being like, well, I wanna make the NHL and if I just, as soon as the last guy leaves the, I mean, I'm gonna stay out there until the next person leaves the ice, and then I'm gonna stay 30 minutes longer and work on more.
So, I mean, like, as much as I did get the, the bill, you know, the build and you know, a lot given to me genetically, I knew that I could just try to outwork other people. Um, and that was just my mindset and, you know, my dad, my dad obviously wasn't in the stands in college telling me what to do. I just wanted to do that and knew I could control it.
But I mean, with that being said, they got, got a little obsessive, but, uh, worked out.[00:24:00]
Jason Jacobs: And, um, at what point do you feel like you took the reins? Uh, how old were you?
Colin Wilson: I mean, I was 15 when I took the reins. Uh, but even then, I mean, I, I wanted to be out there. I mean, I remember being all excited. We had a pond in the back when I was, we moved to a new house and I had a pond in the back from 12, yeah, around 12. And I just remember always like, I wanted to set my alarm before school so I could go out there and get, like, you know, get an hour and a half of shooting in and skating, uh, before.
So, I don't know, I took the reins. I always had the reins, but then I remember when I made the US national team, my dad kind of like let off on everything and just, you know, when he watched my game, it was substantially less critical, more of like an encouragement. He kind of felt. Like, you know, I had it instilled with me to know whether or not I had a bad or a good game and that I could drive myself.
Um, but that, yeah. So that was around 15.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, and, um, and I, I, I know from a, from our prior chat and from some [00:25:00] homework that I did that, uh, you know, you had quite a long career in the NHL and then, um, so did you, um, was the injury a a sudden thing? Uh, right, because it was, it was an injury that ultimately led you to, to retire.
Colin Wilson: Mm-hmm. It was, no, I mean, I I, it's weird. I mean, I dealt with hip and groin pain my whole on since I was like 17 maybe. 'cause I was going, going a little too hard at things. Um, but around, yeah, so in that last year, I, I got, I just, I had played a back-to-back game and I went out to practice and I literally couldn't take a stride like both of my hips.
Like, I literally, I couldn't stride, so tried rehabbing it for two months, couldn't come back. So I finally got surgery, but the surgery didn't take, so I couldn't, there was like a year there where I wasn't able to walk more than a block, let alone skate. Um, so had to get them redone and yeah, by the time I was meant to come back for playoffs, had the surgeries gone the way they were meant to go, but instead I had to get revision surgeries and [00:26:00] that was the end of the career.
Jason Jacobs: Uhhuh and um, and obviously there's a lot of time in between and stories and experience and learnings and lessons that there's no way we're gonna cover in. One show, but, um, but hockey was obviously such a huge part of your identity, um, uh, when you left the game. Um, yeah, I mean, I, uh, I was gonna ask a, it's like I, yeah.
I wanna understand the transition from being a h hockey being your identity to then your identity away from the game. Um, and I've read some of the stuff you've wrote, um, so I mean, don't rehash anything you don't want to rehash, but, um, but what did that process look like for you and what have you observed from other friends and colleagues and teammates that have gone through that similar transition?
I would imagine it's a really [00:27:00] hard one.
Colin Wilson: Yeah, the transition. I mean, mine had a very weird feel to it because I retired during COVID and I had four hip surgeries. So I had a lot, it was almost, I was worried about my hips and I was, and also the whole global pandemic thing. So it almost wasn't like a clear cutoff. Um, and I'm starting to feel it in the last year or two where I think the identity thing is starting to play, play a role.
'cause all of a sudden I think about it, I'm like, oh, I haven't played an NHL game in five years. I thought I. I'm a newly retired NHL player, but really now I'm starting to be quite removed from the game and that's where I'm actually having a little bit more difficulty, um, lately. And, you know, I really enjoy school, so going back and getting my undergrad degree at Boston University and now finishing up my master's at NYUI really enjoyed that.
But now I'm having to get into the real world, get a, you know, either get a job or really figure out what I want to do. And that is quite difficult. Um, and I know a lot of [00:28:00] guys, a lot of guys have this issue because there's no, I don't know if there is or would be a, a, a similar feeling to scoring a goal in playoffs in front of 20,000 people.
Like it really, that's,
Jason Jacobs: Coming on this podcast, it's like just,
Colin Wilson: it's a close second. Second,
Jason Jacobs: right? Yeah.
Colin Wilson: yeah. So, I mean, in, in terms of that transition, the professional transition, it's difficult. Um, yeah, it's just difficult finding those Yeah, it's, it's not, there's no, not as, the highs and lows aren't as quick.
Jason Jacobs: And, and now that you're away from the game, um, I, I would imagine that there was a whole lot of sacrifice. So the game gave you so much. But like anything in life, if you lean so hard into one thing, it may be at the expense of. Other things. Um, do, do you look back with any regret about things you might have missed along the way or otherwise?
Colin Wilson: Yeah, I mean,[00:29:00]
Jason Jacobs: I.
Colin Wilson: yeah, I would say, I mean, if I could have done less drugs, it would've been great if I, I end up getting, I don't know. 'cause not everybody listening. I obviously got, I had a, I got sober, which actually was another part of the transition. I, I got played my last year and I had just gotten sober. So retiring was a whole other thing.
Um, I mean, I wish, again, I, I. As much as I don't want to keep hitting that same thing with process mentality, I wish I would've been a little bit kinder to myself with all that. Um, I don't know. I still think I battled pretty hard through what I was going through. Like the whole obsessive compulsive disorder thing where I was retying my skates multiple times.
So I wish I would've, I wish I would've gotten help a little bit sooner, which had been, you know, there like, you know, the hand had been there for help and I just never really took it and decided to kind of try to take it on my own. So wish I would've done that. Um, but I also know the challenging spot where you don't know who to trust and you know, if your team's gonna find out and what [00:30:00] would that look like if you took time off, especially, you know, 10 years ago when it wasn't as acceptable.
So I have regrets, but I also feel as though I did, I certainly was doing the best with my, the hand that was dealt. So.
Jason Jacobs: I, but it, it's, um, I mean those are regrets, but it's a little different than what I was getting at. I mean, you're talking about regrets for how you carried yourself as you went through the game. Um, I was asking more about if you regretted how much you gave to the game, but it sounds like that answer is no.
Colin Wilson: I don't know. I don't know. It's hard to say because at the same time, you know, like I am dealing with the physical consequences, uh, actually, you know, like my hips still aren't, you know, people ask me to go play, you know, can you come play in a pickup league? And I'm like, no. My hips literally can't do it.
You know? And so I am, you know, dealing with some, um, disability, you know, type things that I, I, I didn't expect to be dealing with. And it's, I wish, I do wish that wasn't the hand [00:31:00] that I was dealt, but it is. Um, so I gave a lot to it. I certainly feel, feel as though my mind is a little cooked from it a little bit.
You know, I, I mean, I have a different constitution. I, I can't speak for all players. I. But I just had a different constitution where I really feel as though I burned through a lot of stress. Um, and I do feel the other side of that. So I don't know, I, I'm sure I would still do it all again. So I don't know what else I would be, you know, what else I would've done during my twenties, uh, during that time.
So, um, I gave a lot to it, but, uh, I got a lot out of it.
Jason Jacobs: Um, you. So I'm gonna ask this question, although I'll un I understand that you won't really be able to answer one part of it until your daughter gets older. And, and also who knows if she'll be a hockey girl or what she'll be into, but, um, uh, but, um, but it seems that the ga the game certainly changed a lot from my perspective, from what I played growing [00:32:00] up.
And so I'm just interested from what you've observed, how is the development path different today and what's good about that and what are some negative consequences for the changes?
Colin Wilson: Um, I mean, I guess back home, I'll, I'll just refer. I get, I was incredibly sad to learn that this, uh, this new team, this new traveling team had developed called, I think it's called, it's a group called at the rink. I forget what it's called, but, um, it's like a $25,000 a year program, maybe $30,000 a year program.
And you know, like that's, you don't, you want a player, a player not to make the next step because, or not necessarily, you know, you want a player to make the next level because of his ability. It's not his ability to pay for it. And you know, like, but you know, when I grew up it was still expensive, you know, $4,000, three or $4,000 a year to be on that traveling team.
But, you know, and there was, you know, people of all social classes able to play on that [00:33:00] top team and, you know, so it makes me, it makes me sad that people's development is getting priced out. Um, and so, yeah, and I mean it's, yeah, you kind of start seeing that across, across a few different social, you know, there's some social issues, obviously inequality.
I won't be a preacher there, but, um, so yeah, I don't know. It's, it is too bad. But I mean, at the same time, on the positive side of things. I mean, has anybody, and this isn't because of their wealth, but have you ever seen anybody move like McDavid or Mcar or McKinnon before? Like, Nope. And so even though these people are now hiring, you know, hiring skating coaches, you know, these guys are just moving in a way that nobody's ever seen.
And it goes to show you that what can happen when you start getting those reps in. I should also throw eel in there. 'cause man, it's a, it's fun to watch him escape as it looks like he's not trying, and then he is just bi people. So yeah, those are kind
Jason Jacobs: he's a, he's a Boston guy, right? Michael?
Colin Wilson: yeah, he's a Boston BU guy. Yeah.[00:34:00]
Jason Jacobs: Um, one thing that, I mean, my, my oldest is 13 and so I'm kind of feeling my way in the dark as we go through the path. But one thing I've observed is, is that if you actually wanna make a run or even playing in college, let alone beyond college, that, uh. That you have to be so old. Um, you know, 'cause now there's, it's like you're probably gonna reclass somewhere in the high school experience and then you'll play at least a year of juniors, if not two or three.
And I mean, even in division three, it seems like a lot of these kids are coming in as 21-year-old freshmen. When if you look to your left or your right, everyone else is 18. Um, w what do you think about that?
Colin Wilson: That would be news to me, but I will digest it. Um, I mean, it go, I don't know, I don't know what's causing that in the competitive landscape, but I think, I mean, we had, it seemed like there was more and more 21-year-old freshmen, uh, coming in. And I mean, at the [00:35:00] same time, if you wanna play college hockey and it's not your, you're not there yet at 18 and you do have the drive to wanna play, I mean, I guess why not continue to develop if that's what you want to do?
But I mean, that's, you know, more time and money spent. But I mean, at the same time, you look at somebody likem Gilroy. Who made it, um, and then made the NHL played for the Rangers, you know, it can be done. So, um, I guess I don't know the, um, you know, the incentives for that or what's going on, but, um, interesting development.
Jason Jacobs: Um, alright, well maybe, maybe we should talk about, uh, some of the development stuff, uh, because as I think I mentioned to you, um, in our last discussion, uh, one of the things that I've observed is that. I mean, just as a dad, that, especially as you play it more as, as your kid plays at more competitive levels, that they're doing a lot [00:36:00] outside of the structured stuff with the team.
Um, and a lot of that development is self-paced with the kid and family. Um, and so you, and maybe it's different in different regions too. That's another thing, like I want to talk to people from Minnesota and from Texas and from different parts of Europe and I mean, I'm interested in really understanding the different development models.
So I can only speak to what's happening in New England. Um, but uh, but here in New England, you, you end up carting your kid around to a bunch of these different skills. Um, and uh, it's pretty fragmented. Um, it's a lot of time in the car. It's expensive, it prices a lot of people out, as you were saying. Um, and there's a bit of kind of FOMO in keeping up with the Joneses where you see everyone doing the skills, doing the tournament teams, doing year round, doing right.
And it's like, it's like you kind of have to be pretty disciplined to say. Well, we're gonna pull back or we're gonna abstain because, um, the best interest of my kid, you know, I don't wanna burn my kid out from the game and in the best interest of his long-term [00:37:00] development, I don't want him to get overused injuries.
Right. Um, I want him to have fun and be a kid, right? Whatever it is. Like, you know, like the, you know, getting sucked into the vortex with no boundaries, um, is a slippery slope, right? Um, so, so there's that, right? But then there's also the fact that a lot of the stuff you're cutting your kid around for, there's things you could be doing at home to compliment in between and to mean potentially less wear and tear, dragging him around to, to all this stuff.
And then there's a bunch of people who either can't afford it, don't have the job, logistics to be human, uber drivers, or live in areas that don't have the same density of all this stuff that we have here in the Boston area, right? Um, uh, and so if you built a digital platform that could, you know, some stuff, it's gonna have to be in person, right?
But for the stuff that doesn't have to be in person, like hockey iq, does Hockey IQ need to be in person? Does mental fit, you know, sports psychology, mental fitness, does that need to be in person? Does should, [00:38:00] like, you know, someone standing over you making sure that you do your shots or giving you guidance on your sick handling form or something like, I'm not even sure what the stuff is, but like, could you build a platform that could one, drive better adherence at home, and two, be kinda your partner for development over time?
That could open up the accessibility of the, um, the best development stuff to more people, right? So that's some of the stuff I've been thinking about, but I'm treading carefully because. You know, I don't wanna be part of the problem, honestly. Um, and that's one of the reasons I'm not rushing to build. I am spending time steeping in the game and talking to a wide range of perspectives and learning from people like you so that whatever we end up building here, it ends up, um, being something we can be proud of and that really helps kids and families to, and is in their best interest for their short and long-term development.
So, I'll stop there, but it'd be great to just kind of get your reaction to that and I'm happy to answer any questions
Colin Wilson: Yeah, I mean, I wonder how much, I mean, this is just off the top of my head, but [00:39:00] all of a sudden I think, you know, I had, I had a lot of those things at home because I had a dad who played in the NHL and a grandfather who was.
Jason Jacobs: and, and look at the rosters. Most of the, not, maybe most is exaggeration. This is just me making excuses, but like, if you look at the DU one rosters, right? Like, you know, how many last names do you recognize from their dad? A
Colin Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, if you are able to demo, uh, you know, yeah. All of a sudden you, as opposed to just having one person having that accessibility, you're having more people who have access accessibility from the comfort of their home. You know, that certainly levels the playing field. Obviously, I, I didn't have to pay my dad to, to do any that, but at the same time, I think my understanding of where the game's at, yeah.
Like you said, it's, people get priced out. So I mean, the ability to do something at home, at a, you know, a more affordable cost, um, seems like the direction that it's headed. Um, I mean, I mean, you talk about like sports psychologist or you want a nutritionist, or you want, [00:40:00] you know, some, I mean, like, I think that one of the.
There was an IPO that was for, um, an online PT this year in America. I,
Jason Jacobs: Oh yeah, yeah. I forget the name of it, but I remember seeing
Colin Wilson: so I mean, I'd have to assume you can get the training you need, the PT you need and a sports psychologist all from your home, and that way you're not as burned out. Um, and then at the same time, while not necessarily on a platform, you know, cross cross training is a, is a very, um, advantageous thing to do.
Um, I was, I went out to the summer, or pardon me, I went out for the summer to my cottage growing up and it was volleyball, badminton, and wakeboarding. So there's a lot of movement and a lot of, uh, a lot of jumping, so always.
Jason Jacobs: another, it's another trend we didn't talk about is the, is the year rounders, um, you know, there's always something in the keeping up with the Joneses and you feel like you can't put it down. How do you feel about that?
Colin Wilson: Yeah, it's hard. I mean, again, I, I wasn't there like, just, I remember my parents, we, I would, I would just have like one or two tournaments, summer tournaments, [00:41:00] I feel like, and even then my parents. And that was the beginning of it. So I can only imagine, you know, 20, or fuck, I guess more than 20, probably 25 years later, how it is.
I don't know. The FOMO thing is hard. We'll see. I mean, I'm watching my daughter climb at a, at the playground and I'm like, oh, does she need more reps in so I can see the insecurities. And it's, it's so hard not to, you know, you wanna give your kid the best opportunity, you know, you want them to have every opportunity to develop, but I don't know.
I would, I mean, somebody who you, you know, we could talk offline as well, but Jay Harrison, who's, uh, you know, he turned into a PhD after playing over, I think over a decade in the NHL. But he's a bit, he's a huge advocate for cross training in the summers. You know, just having a different sport to play. You know, you're still, you're getting better, but you're actually enjoying getting better.
Um, and the kid, you know, we could send some data to the parents to make them feel better about that.
Jason Jacobs: It [00:42:00] is. I mean, it, it's tricky, right? Because, um, 'cause rationally if you focus on anything too much, you're gonna get sick of it, right? Um, but at the same time, the game has gotten so competitive, right? That, uh, that you, you don't want your kid to fall behind, right? Um, you know, you don't wanna be the kid that gets cut from that team like you did when you were, uh, you know, vying for that 15 to 17 or, or, or whatever it is.
And you're, and you're keeping up with, and you're trying to keep up with kids that are year rounders. So they're gonna come back the next year after a year of grind, and in the short term, it'll look like you're falling behind when a lot of those kids are gonna burn out or get overuse injuries or whatever, right?
Um, so
Colin Wilson: Yeah, it's, it is a difficult, and it's difficult and I've, I mean, I'm having to think about this a lot in this conversation. Brings it up more, but yeah, no, it's a, it's a
Jason Jacobs: Wait till your daughter gets over older. Yeah.
Colin Wilson: So. I don't know. I mean, you do, I don't know. Yeah. If you want your kids to get into the best colleges, I mean, you, you probably have to push them and get them the best programs.
I mean, it's, unless they're born like, uh, [00:43:00] goodwill hunting, so it's, it's a difficult, yeah, I don't know. I don't know what the balance is. Some of you have to work hard, so we'll see.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. And the, um, you know, conventional wisdom is like, if little Timmy's not in the back shooting pucks on his own, like, not gonna make it right. And like, I just don't buy, I don't buy that. Right. I think, look, if you're dragging little Timmy and little Timmy's like, come on, I don't, I, I hate this. Why are you making me go?
That's one thing, right? Um, but like, I see lots of kids where it's like you, you know, they love the game. Like even my kid, he loves the game. You drag him around to the formal stuff, wagging his tail, dialed in, clearly wants to get better, right? But then when he gets home, like. He's not thinking about like, I wanna get better.
He's like, uh, you know, thinking about where's my phone? Where's Xbox? Right? Um, uh, you know, how's my fantasy sports team doing? Right. Um, but then he's so competitive when you dial, you know, when you do the, the formal stuff, but then if the doorbell rings and it's a [00:44:00] buddy saying, you wanna shoot pucks, he'll go shoot 500 pucks.
Right? Um, and they'll play posts and they'll compete and they'll have a blast, right? And so it's like, well ca you know, is there something in bet? Like, can you somehow recreate that buddy feeling when there's not a buddy there? Even if it's remote competing against buddies that are in their houses down the street, you know, with a, you know, with an iPad seeing them on the screen or something.
Like, that's the kind of thing I'm thinking about, but I go back and forth, honestly, because on the one hand it's like, uh, well, yeah, if you package it in that way, then you'll make it fun, and then there'll be better adherence. And on the other, it's like, well, like, are you, are you just trying to put lipstick on a pig?
You know?
Colin Wilson: Yeah, but I mean, at the same time, if it's the, if it's the communal, I mean like when somebody's playing Xbox, I assume that they're also playing online with their friends. So, I mean, if you're gonna create a programming where you and your friends are getting involved in a game, and you can also, I mean, why wouldn't you just do it in hockey where you're both playing posts or something like that make, I mean, makes sense to me.
Jason Jacobs: That, I mean, that, that's the code I'm trying to cra like I [00:45:00] know what code I'm trying to crack, which is like, uh, through, and it's gonna be different for different kids. Some kids are, you know, 'cause I built a, a running platform and with, you know, like a digital platform for runners globally and some runners, they blocked down all their privacy settings and they didn't share anything because they didn't care if anyone saw it.
They didn't want anyone to see it. They just cared about their own progress over time. Right. Um, and then others, uh, were like, you know, I want everyone to see it because knowing that people are gonna see, it's what's motivating me to do my best because I want the props. Right. Um, and then other people are like, you know.
Neither of, though I'm kind of in neither of those camps, but I just wanna be told what to do. I wanna plan. Right? Um, and other people are like, you know, I want it to be more like a game. Can it be a challenge? Like, you know, can I, can, you know, if, can I unlock that badge that I never got before? Right. I'm really trying to get that one because it's like, you know, fills out my square or whatever.
Right? Um, so it's like different motivations for different people, but if you have them all, you can kind of purpose built it, you know, each individual's experience for the stuff that's gonna motivate them. Why [00:46:00] couldn't you do that with skills training? Right? Um, and it, and also like what I see is that, um, you know, the, the pros have a bunch of handlers, right?
Um, that void is starting to get, and I, I'm early in my journey, so everything is like, well this is what I'm observing going in, but I need to pressure test and validate. And you might tell me that. I have a wrong assumption, which I'm sure I have wrong assumptions and listeners too, like I want to hear about 'em.
But like, what I observe is that now people coming up, right, um, it's getting to a point where agents are playing more of a role, right? And um, and actually they're serving a valuable purpose in terms of helping them navigate some of the politics. And so it's not daddy, you know, calling who can't be objective, right?
But, but also the agents are building up now development arms, right? To watch the video and give you feedback and make sure you're on track and give you plans. Um, but most kids don't have access to agents or to handlers, right? So what do they have? They have dad, right? Or mom, right? Um, and, and the [00:47:00] problem with dad or mom, unless they happen to be former NHLs. Is that they don't know what they're doing. Right? Um, and the other problem with dad or mom is that they're a blood relative. And who the heck wants to learn from Dad or mom, right? Uh, um, and, and the last problem is that they don't have time, right? Um, so that's kind of where I'm at, is like, all right, well my kid is telling me he wants to dial up the training in the house, right?
But he needs structure so I can scramble and try to provide the structure, but it's exhausting. He doesn't wanna learn from dad, and I don't do it for a living, and there's people that do it far better than me. And so like, could I just outsource it to a platform full of experts, right? Um, that can give him the best, right?
Not coming from dad in a way that liberates me. Right? Um, and oh, by the way, opens up those experts at a price point that's much more affordable for everyone that like, can't go open their wallet and get a bunch of handlers because, you know, because that's obscene and who can do that, right? Um, so that's when I, it's super vague because I don't have any of the [00:48:00] details worked out, but that's like the hypothesis within which I wanna start experimenting.
Colin Wilson: Yeah. No, and I, I found it interesting actually, 'cause you had said that there was some, like some college athletes who were helping to mentor, you know, younger kids, which is like a pre, like when I, or when I spoke to. Um, yeah, when I spoke to you previously, um, or when I spoke to my, one of my friends, they had said, okay, well how many experts can there be?
But I mean, once you start looking at the different levels of hockey, there are quite a few experts who can offer their expertise. You know, a college level player actually knows a heck of a lot and can help out a younger kid. Um, in the same time you're talking about agents, um, you know, it'd be nice for an agent to be able to just be an agent and not have to break down a kid's film where he can then outsource it, be like, Hey, we have a subscription to this platform.
This is gonna break down your film and get you, uh, in touch with, um, you know, an expert who can help you. So I think that, yeah, it's, it's very, there's a few, you know, interesting value propositions [00:49:00] there.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. And I mean, there are sites popping up where they can review your shifts and there are sites popping up where they pair you with, you know, current D one players for mentors. And there are sites popping up where you can get access to sports psychology sessions on Zoom or whatever. And there are sites popping up that give you drills to do.
Right. Um, but you know, one, like, why do I have to go to all these different places for all these different things? Right. Um, two, um, uh, I feel like the, there's a lot of great stuff in the hockey world, but there's not a lot of true consumer technology platform, DNA. Right. Um, like people that have really built companies with, you know, starting with the.
Consumer first and building great, intuitive, easy to use experiences. And then three, AI is gonna change a lot of things, right? And, and it's going to be able to, um, make, you know, drive a lot more personalization, [00:50:00] strip out a bunch of the costs, and, um, and make the price point even more accessible to more people.
Um, and one other interesting thing I've observed is that every region has their own skills experts, right? Um, and all that stuff is still gonna exist. There's gonna be huge demand for it, but matchmaking is hard, right? Um, and so if you were embedded, if you built in a growing community of players globally, right?
Then you could be a referral source for all the regional, um, uh, in-person stuff so that people can graduate or compliment the digital with the in-person or, or it's more compliment the in-person with the digital because the digital's gonna be thin and lightweight relative to the stuff you're doing in person.
In person is still gonna rule the day. I think.
Colin Wilson: Yeah, yeah. No. And a little bit like B2B referrals. Little bit regional to regional or is that what you're saying?
Jason Jacobs: Uh, I'm saying if you have the digital platform that has people everywhere and you don't do anything in person, then whatever region that person is in, when they want in person stuff, you should be able to [00:51:00] connect them with the right partners, serve their needs, and be really, um, careful about curating and making matches that make sense to both
Colin Wilson: Yeah, for sure. Matchmaking is always difficult.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. Um, and, um, what was I, what else was I gonna say? Um, oh, and the other thing that Matt told me, and he's gonna come on the show and talk about it, but Matt. Matt was saying how, um, he's observed that there's a lot of players out there, NHL players who leave the game and, you know, maybe they have young kids and can't handle the travel grind anymore, or their bodies are failing them or whatever, but they still love the game and they wanna be a part of it, but they want flexibility.
They wanna work from anywhere and they wanna be a part of the game. And so maybe there's a way to provide a platform like this and essentially curate this army of world class expertise and give them essentially fractional work, right? Um, that they can do it from anywhere on their own schedule. Almost like an Uber driver.
You can turn, turn on the clock whenever you feel like it, or don't when you don't. [00:52:00] Right. Um, and then enable all these kids to get access, you know, directly to their heroes. I mean, that, that's another angle.
Colin Wilson: So you, you mentioned it offline. And now that makes very good sense. Like, that's great. Yes. The, uh, no, that's, that's very, that's very cool. I mean, I would, as a retired player, I would, if I could, you know, two hours a day, I have two sessions a day where I'm helping one kid with his, I guess I would be like more mentor based with his career and another, I'm helping with a shot.
That'd be a pretty, you know, great day, great day, and a way to stay involved in the game. So I think that, that has a lot of legs. You would actually have a lot of, uh, former, former NH lrs and professional hockey players who would be, you know, willing to lend their time to that.
Jason Jacobs: Wait anyways. I have no answers. I'm not in a rush to build, just trying to steepen the game and learn. But those are, those are my, uh, that's a point in time snapshot of where my head is. So I have to turn things around and ask where your head is, call in, like now that you're a [00:53:00] few years outta the game, you said it's been five years since you played your last game.
Um, you know, path to sobriety, um, uh, you know. Where do you find yourself now and what do you wanna do?
Colin Wilson: Yeah. Um, well find myself. I just, yeah. So just graduating from NYU with a master's in, uh, global affairs, concentrating on global economics. Uh, currently writing my thesis on, um, open source AI from a geopolitical and, uh, business model perspective for closed source and.
Jason Jacobs: You, you, do you think you're the first hockey player to ever do that? I, I would venture that that's a pretty safe bet.
Colin Wilson: Probably, yeah. Yeah. I found myself in an interesting position post hockey. But, uh, yeah, so doing that, um, actually just, um, in a, now doing my second internship, kind of feeling my way into, I don't know, corporate life, but this one is a little bit more startup, which is like very fun. Uh, having a team trying to start something new where we've been a non-profit giving non-dilutive capital grant [00:54:00] money to startups, and now we want to get into the venture arm.
So helping kind of develop the deck, the, uh, the filtration process, how we present it, market it, finding LPs. Um, it's been very fun rewarding. Um, and that's where I find myself, and I don't know, maybe I'll continue down this path. I really like, I like impact investing, I should say. This is an impacting investing, impact investing fund.
So, uh, you know, um, helping with social mobility and inequality and, um, businesses. You know, underserved or allowing underserved communities to gain access to healthcare, uh, to financial needs, to climate, climate adaptation. So I'm a big fan of that type of stuff, kind of correctly, um, allocating capital. So we'll see where that takes me.
I may not do anything corporate and might just go work in, go work, uh, in sobriety or something like that. But, uh, that's kinda the plan at the moment.
Jason Jacobs: What are your thoughts? What's your current involvement with the game and what are your thoughts [00:55:00] looking forwards in terms of what you want that involvement to be, if anything?
Colin Wilson: My current involvement is waking up in the morning and checking the box score of Edmonton verse Florida to see who won the game. Um, I try to, those games are late. Um, so no, I mean, I love it. I still, I still follow, I love watching highlights. Um, my, my involvement in the game is I always get excited to talk about hockey, and I always get excited.
Um, talking to my old buddies who played. So it was something I never saw for myself professionally. Um, but at the same time, I kind of spoke of it before. You know, as much as I'm getting degrees, I feel like I have a PhD in hockey with a heck of a lot of experience. I mean, I found early on in my, um, non hockey professional career that I could get coffee dates, but not very many job, not very many job offers, which leads me to the hockey path.
So, I don't know, I, I'm keeping it open. It wasn't a thought at all until recently. Um, so we will see.[00:56:00]
Jason Jacobs: I, I guess my, my last question for you is, um, when I. When I talk to, um, parents who have older kids that have been through the journey, right? If I talk to ones whose kids thrived, right? Um, then they're all, they're focused on with their younger one is a, assuming the younger one wants it, right? But is that development path and striving and ambition and goals and structure and all the stuff we're talking about, right?
When I talk to ones who have older siblings who maybe went through some turbulence on the way, right. Um, it becomes a perspective check for that family. And they're a lot more grounded where it's like, yo, like as long as my kid is healthy and happy, happy, like, I'm good and anything else is gravy, right?
Um. Uh, and I would imagine it's similar. I mean, even for us grownups, if we have like a, like a health scare or a family member that dies suddenly, or, you know, like life's a bitch, right? Um, [00:57:00] and um, and I think about that just as a dad and as a human when I try to live my life. Right. You know, balancing that constant, incessant, insatiable ambition with enjoying the here and now, and it, and it oftentimes feels like they're at odds.
So I'm just curious, um, especially since I know you've been through a lot, like, and you've also achieved a lot, right? How do you think about that balance, if at all?
Colin Wilson: I think about it every day, especially, especially moving into this new career where I find myself being ambitious, but at the same time, I, I feel myself developing similar tendencies of like too much attachment. You know, to my work. Um, I love it. I love it when my current boss is like, Hey, you did a great job.
And I'm, you know, I'm a bit of a validation monster. Um, so, but at the same time, you know, like having, um, being in sobriety as well as just, you know, you start growing up and you start seeing, you know, some, yeah. I mean, you, if you age, it's, uh, you're very lucky. You know, not everybody [00:58:00] gets to age. Not every, you know, people have health scares and I think I find myself more on the lines of, you know, happy and healthy.
You know, hap happy if somebody's, you know, if, especially with my daughter, I'd say happy, healthy, and productive. Um, I do like the idea of her also being productive, um, and contributing to the community. Um, so I don't know. I'm, I, I certainly am always trying to balance it. Um, I think I have to, I try to be here and now do a lot of stuff to, I.
You know, implement that into my day. But I'm, I'm not the booty yet, so I have a lot of work to do. Um, but yeah, that's, that's certainly a, uh, balance. I'll be striking for the rest of my life.
Jason Jacobs: I am curious to check back in, in a few years and watch you like wild-eyed on the bench coaching your daughter's brick team. That, that's what I
Colin Wilson: gonna happen.
Jason Jacobs: Um, well, uh, well this was so useful to me and I'm sure for listeners too, for, I mean, for anyone listening that's inspired by your story because [00:59:00] look, you're, you're so accomplished, but you're also just such a nice, humble, down to earth guy, um, and seems like you're really smart 'cause you're like doing stuff that I can never do.
Um, in terms of your studies, um. So, uh, give a pitch to listeners for like, who do you wanna hear from and, uh, from a professional standpoint and, um, and what kind of roles would be interesting for you so that you can hopefully get some, uh, surprise and delight in terms of inbounds.
Colin Wilson: For, so for my professional career moving forward, what would I would like?
Jason Jacobs: Yeah,
Colin Wilson: Hmm.
Jason Jacobs: I don't care if it has to do with hockey or not. Just what do you wanna do?
Colin Wilson: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, again, kind of along those same lines, I'm, I'm, I quite enjoy the idea of impact capital. Um, I enjoy, you know, I, I move back and forth between being, you know, wanting to be, and kind of like a. Um, yeah, a grant making process.
I'm a big believer and a big fan of, you know, the, you know, America's r and d system, um, as [01:00:00] well as the venture capital system and how it just breeds these new technologies. So anything in that space, whether grant making or venture capital, um, I don't know if I would move into like growth equity, private equity type deals, but, um, I'm interested in, in those types of things.
Policy as well, kind of like the way they, they all mesh together, or political economy, big fan of political economy. So, um, all those things. All the, all the above. Um, so that'd be, that'd be my pitch. If anybody, if anybody needs somebody for that, let me know.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, and what advice would you have for me heading out to try to build a platform to help kids on their development path, starting in hockey and ultimately in, in other sports? Given that I want to build a successful business, but I wanted to, to have an important mission and do good in the world for the kids and the families, and not just be another.
Hand in the wallet. So I think given all of that, what advice would you have? And if [01:01:00] you feel like the advice is don't build that freaking thing, like I want to hear that too. Honestly,
Colin Wilson: No, I mean, my advice, and you're already doing it, is to speak to a bunch of hockey guys and guys that are in, you know, somebody like Calvert who has, who has kids in the sport. Like, I mean,
Jason Jacobs: I can't wait for that
Colin Wilson: yeah, he's, he's, he's one of my favorite teammates I played with. We also grew up playing against each other, um, as kids.
Um. I think you're just gonna get such diverse perspectives. And like even the things that you mentioned, like me and him had a conversation about, you know, your platform and we had a bunch of ideas flying around and this is one I hadn't heard of. And this is kind of what happens when you have a lot of, a lot of people who know the game, kind of putting their minds together, minds together.
So it seems like you're reaching out to a bunch of people. Um, you've, you've built more, more apps and had more acquisitions than me. So I'll, I'll leave you to that.
Jason Jacobs: All right, well, uh, I'll keep you posted. Uh, maybe there'll be a [01:02:00] way to trick you into getting involved in some way, but I don't even know what I'm building yet, so I have no asks. Um, but yeah, again, thank you so much for coming on the show. Looking forward to keeping in touch and um, and to seeing where you land 'cause I'm sure it's gonna be doing something exciting and impactful.
Colin Wilson: Yeah. Thank you very much. Thanks for having me.
Jason Jacobs: Thanks, Colin.