In this episode of 'The Next Next,' host Jason Jacobs delves into the multifaceted world of athlete development with guest Freddy Meyer. Freddy shares his storied career in hockey, including playing at Boston University, ~300 NHL games, and coaching at various levels. Now the head coach at the Rivers School and founder of Dream Big Hockey Stars, Freddy discusses the balance between playing and coaching, the evolving landscape of youth hockey, and his philosophies on player development. The conversation also touches on Freddy's personal journey as a hockey dad, raising two sons who are deeply immersed in the sport.
In this episode of 'The Next Next,' host Jason Jacobs delves into the multifaceted world of athlete development with guest Freddy Meyer. Freddy shares his storied career in hockey, including playing at Boston University, ~300 NHL games, and coaching at various levels. Now the head coach at the Rivers School and founder of Dream Big Hockey Stars, Freddy discusses the balance between playing and coaching, the evolving landscape of youth hockey, and his philosophies on player development. The conversation also touches on Freddy's personal journey as a hockey dad, raising two sons who are deeply immersed in the sport.
00:00 Introduction to The Next Next
00:16 Meet Freddy Meyer: From College Hockey to the NHL
00:42 Freddy's Coaching Journey and Family Life
02:42 Freddy's Early Years in Hockey
04:03 The Path to Professional Hockey
15:01 Transitioning from Player to Coach
26:17 Balancing Family and Career
28:39 Dream Big Hockey Stars and Coaching Philosophy
31:09 The State of Hockey: New England vs. Minnesota
33:16 The Massachusetts Hockey Dilemma
34:19 Cost of Entry and Talent Distribution
35:51 Philosophy on Youth Development
37:57 Balancing Multiple Sports
39:20 Nature vs. Nurture in Athletic Development
43:06 The Importance of Passion and Fun
45:59 Navigating Distractions and Maintaining Focus
47:54 Deciding When to Develop or Move On
51:08 The Challenges of College Hockey
58:49 The Role of Video in Player Development
01:01:28 Final Thoughts and Advice for Parents
[00:00:00]
Jason Jacobs: Welcome to The Next Next. I'm the host, Jason Jacobs. This show sorts through the nuances of athlete development through the lenses of a dad who's sorting through those nuances with my own kids, but also as an entrepreneur who's in the early stages of building my next company in the space. Today's guest is Freddy Meyer.
Freddy's an interesting one. He played four years of college hockey at BU, where he was an All American and was athlete of the year. His senior year he played almost 300 games in the NHL. He played in Sweden's top league for Moto hockey, and then as a coach, he was an a AHL assistant and he was a head coach in gm in the.
EHL and since 2020, he's been the head coach at the Rivers School here in the Boston area. Uh, Freddy also founded a training academy called Dream Big Hockey Stars. And in addition to that, uh, he's a hockey dad. Um, he's got two boys, Carter and [00:01:00] Freddy. Uh, and he coached them both on the Junior Eagles through their entire journey.
And, and then again. At Rivers and, uh, Freddy actually just committed yesterday, um, at time of this recording to BU uh, and Carter, uh, is leaving after his freshman year to go to the NTDP, and he's slated to be. A top 10 pick in the NHL draft when that comes. So we have a great discussion in this episode about Freddy's journey in the game as a player and then as a coach.
We talk about his development path and then how that's informed the development path for his boys, for the kids that he's coached in club and in prep, and how the landscape is changing in general. What's good about it, what's bad about it? What gets Freddy excited about the future and his philosophies on player development generally.
Okay. Freddy Meyer, welcome to the show.
Freddy Meyer: Thanks for having me on.
Jason Jacobs: I'm excited for you to come on a little [00:02:00] nervous because I feel like you're the trifecta. You played in the NHL you are coaching in prep, and, on a team that, coming off a really good year. And you've been a, actually, maybe it's more than a trifecta because you're also a club coach, from the little guys and you're a crazy hockey dad, right?
And so, yeah, I guess that's a quad fecta. But there's, yeah, there's a lot to learn from someone in the spot that you're in with the experience that you have. And I'm just so grateful for you to take the time to come on the show and and share your experience.
Freddy Meyer: Yeah, no, I'm happy to be here. And obviously I'd say yeah, the youth hockey world's the Wild, wild West a little bit, and it, I feel like it changes every month or two. It's it's very fluid and moving and excited to be here and shots monkey.
Jason Jacobs: Well, before we jump into the here and now, and there's lots to talk about in the here and now, but before we jump into that, how'd you first get into the sport?
Freddy Meyer: Good question. I grew up small town New Hampshire. In the middle of nowhere is like what I like to say. It's about 45 minutes north of Portsmouth, New Hampshire up, up 95 that turns into Route 16. [00:03:00] And we moved to a town called Rochester and my brother decided to give it a try just to learn to play in Rochester Youth Hockey.
And the first year I was two years younger than him, so I wasn't quite ready for it or what, mentally I didn't think I was ready for it. And I guess being a rink rat for his eight month experience playing hockey, I decided to get into it the following year. And I don't wanna say never looked back, but essentially never looked back from, 6-year-old me and being around the rink.
And just developed a love and a passion for the game.
Jason Jacobs: Did your parents play the sport or was athletics a big part of their lives growing up?
Freddy Meyer: Not really. My dad played a little soccer in high school. But no, none of 'em they both can't skate. I don't know if they've ever bet on ice, to be honest with you. I don't know if they've ever actually put ice skates on. I think it literally was, we moved to this new down.
My, my dad would read the paper every morning and he saw hockey tryouts and he is, and from there it developed into me gonna, the rink and them, spending a good part of their lives trucking through New England and across the country at different ranks and helped us.
My brother and I develop [00:04:00] a passion for the game.
Jason Jacobs: And obviously, you ended up playing in the NHL, you played several hundred games and you would've played a lot longer it sounds like if it didn't get cut short from. Co concussions at what point in the journey did, so two different questions. One, at what point in the journey did you feel like you had a shot?
And then two, at what point in the journey did you want to have a shot?
Freddy Meyer: Yeah, good question. Obviously for high school, I played at the US National Program the first couple years of the program in Ann Arbor, Michigan. And then I was lucky enough to play at Boston University. And during that time, obviously it was my draft year as well when I was through my 18 year and I wasn't drafted being a five, nine-ish, defenseman.
At that time they were looking for more Darien Hatchers and six five guys in the back end to. Clutch and grab and wacky and whatever else. So I didn't get drafted and I never, to be honest with you, obviously the goal as the little guy is always to play in the NHL, but I don't know if I ever really thought that was real, even going from the NASH program to [00:05:00] BU and playing having a pretty good college career as well.
And I guess you never know what's there until you get there. And I feel like that was even for me, like it took like my first NHL training camp after I graduated of seeing what that level was and what it felt like. And then I was, I guess through that experience in early September, you're like, okay, like this is okay.
Like I'm, I belong here. Like I can I can survive out here. And obviously my first year I spent most of the year in the American League. Got a few cold cup of coffees with the flyers for warmups and some practices and stuff. But overall, like. That was probably the first time was once I got to pro hockey and realized like, all right, like this goal of playing the NHL might be attainable at that point.
Jason Jacobs: But even to play in the NTDP and then to play at bu, both of those in themselves are significant milestones that most hockey players never get access to. So when you were coming up, when you were a little guy, did you know from the time you were little, you were different? Did most of the people who were the stars when you were a little guy, were [00:06:00] those the ones that were the stars later on in their hockey journeys?
What was your experience like? Like coming up in the younger ages?
Freddy Meyer: Yeah, I think I was. Relatively a strong player as a younger guy going through it. I, played some years in New Hampshire then my last year of quote unquote youth hockey. I, my parents would drive down to Massachusetts. So I it was the gentleman that Fran Murphy who's a local legend in my eyes of they used to be called the Metro League before.
It was the now the EHF. And Fran Murphy called my dad out of the blue one day up in New Hampshire and said that he's building this team and looking for some players and if I would be, open to coming down and trying out. So, at that point it was called the North Shore Raiders, which was one birth year up.
So I guess I was playing a year up as a 1981 birth year. And so played on a pretty good team that year. And fortunately or unfortunately, my, we were coming to Massachusetts. Probably four to six days a week at an hour and a half at a time. So at some point my parents are getting burnt out from being a crazy hockey parent.
And the following year I ended up at Cardigan Mountain [00:07:00] School, which is in Enfield, New Hampshire up at car by Dartmouth College.
Jason Jacobs: did you board there?
Freddy Meyer: I did board there. Yeah, so that was about an hour and a half from home too. So I went to Cardigan. My brother actually went to Cardigan too a few years before me.
And there's a New Hampshire local legend, Darren Quint, who was played in the NHL as well, but he went to Cardigan, was probably the the first kid that we knew about going to Cardigan. And then at the time there was the gentleman, Andy Noel, who was coaching there. And unfortunately he's passed away since through some cancer.
But Andy did a great job of building teams and finding players. And we had some good teams up there. When I was at Cardigan, when I was there seventh, eighth, and ninth grade. So playing there and playing what they would call as varsity hockey against a lot of like local prep school teams.
And and from there I got an opportunity through the US National program to be a slight Guinea pig the first year of going out to the Michigan as they were trying to get this program off the ground. And so it was a wild run and obviously, like I said, my parents had no real hockey experience and I guess my dad put a lot of trust in people that he could [00:08:00] trust that were on the ground and trying to make the best decision for my track moving up through the ladder.
Jason Jacobs: So when they were making all that sacrifice. How did they look at it? Like, was there, was their goal in mind? What was was there a method to the madness? Were they just going with the wind? Right? Because I've heard you say in the past that on other interviews that you've done that the primary role, the parents should be the number one cheerleader, and that when there's parents glaring in the stands, like expecting more outta their kids and stuff, that it can be toxic and unhealthy and not the best way to even achieve what they want, which is to get the best outta their kids.
So, when they were making all that sacrifice, like how how did they think about it? How did they justify it?
Freddy Meyer: I honestly think they were just parents that were willing to lean into whatever they had to for whatever their kids' activities wanted to be. I don't think they ever, in their wildest dream think that I would even play college hockey, to be honest with you. Neither of them went to college where I grew up.
Most people at that time weren't going to college. It wasn't like, Hey, we gotta, leverage [00:09:00] this kid's abilities to get 'em to play division one college or a scholarship or anything. It was literally. Obviously I enjoyed it and they were willingness to lean into it and put their heart and soul into it in, in, in a way.
My dad owns a masonry construction company, so there's been some good years in construction, some bad years in construction, and we moved around some houses in terms of what, might have had to sell one to move to a different one. And they just were willing to do whatever they, their, wherever they could to help their kids.
And I don't think any, there was never a time going through it that, we gotta do this to get 'em there. I think it was more they enjoyed the experience being being parents, watching their kid have fun. And I've said it before and on, on different episodes of shows I've been on.
Like, like I said, my, my dad, gradu barely graduated high school and, it was almost, he was somewhat of a sports psychologist back in his day, I think, where he, every time I came outta the rink I had a great game and obviously I was a pretty good player, so. He probably ran the percentages in terms of success I was might have having, but at the end of the day, he was never hammered on me.
'cause of whatever, I wasn't working hard [00:10:00] enough or I wasn't trying, or I didn't score enough or, I don't know. I, I took a lot of penalties in my day, through youth hockey in college and pro, and it was never, he was always very positive and there was always a light in his eyes that was shining.
And I really do believe, like it helped fuel the passion for the game. And I've tried to carry it on with my kids.
Jason Jacobs: So I've heard Wayne Gretzky talk before about how, when people ask him like how hard did you work growing up? Or whatever he says, like, I, it wasn't work to me. Like I did a lot, but I didn't do it as work. I did it just because I love the game. But then you hear these kind of counter examples of, parents that almost like mold their kids to be.
Pros from the time that they, they're not even walking yet. And and then they're like surrounded by handlers all the way through the journey. And I know that's more prevalent today than it was when when you were coming up in the game. But what was your mindset like, were you hammering yourself?
Were there a lot of handlers around? Were you seeking out ways to get better? Were you grinding? Was it pressure? Was [00:11:00] it fun? Like, what, take us into your head space as you were coming up in the game.
Freddy Meyer: Honestly, I just, I, no, there was no handlers. There was no secret sauce, secret skills coaches, it. It was more about just, I think the love of the game. And, when the season ended and all the rinks took the ice out in the middle of New Hampshire, it was street hockey and rollerblades and being outside or playing baseball at other sports.
So I think it was a very like, organic free play and type of atmosphere. It was like I said, it wasn't structured. It wasn't, my parents had no, they had no playbook. Right. They knew, they, barely knew what the game was. I don't, they learned the rules as we were getting older as my brother and I were getting older into the game.
But my dad probably would still ask me questions about, some of the rules are right? Like, he, it wasn't like he studied the game or had this deep understanding of it. It was more of just like, Hey, you love it. Go play. Go have fun great job, post game, let's, get ready for tomorrow, whatever else it was.
So, I do think there's an important element of building a love for the game and not pushing it. [00:12:00] Down maybe a child's, throat in terms of like, you have to like this. I think it, if you want someone to really work hard when no one's watching, there needs to be a love for that versus versus it being so calculated.
Jason Jacobs: And today you hear a lot about how kids should be shooting puck, kids should be running up hills with parachutes on kid. Kids should be hitting the gym. Kids should be dialing in their food. Kids should like, kids should be, and it's all about like, if you wanna make it, if you wanna get to this level, which then feeds that level, which then feeds the one after that.
And then you also hear a lot of what you're saying, right? About how like it should start with love and it should be about love. HI guess how do you sort through that in terms of all the hard work that it does take to make it versus like, keeping it fun and I guess we're still on you, so I don't know if I wanna switch gears to the whole dad and coach part quite yet, but it's hard to separate the two given that you came up in the game and Yeah.
Like looking back [00:13:00] now how do you think about that balance?
Freddy Meyer: I think it needs to be I think there needs to be a balance. Like, I think like, I look at like, I guess life habits, right? Like, like, alright, food as an example. It's, it shouldn't be like, Hey, you have to eat X, Y, and Z. It should be like, Hey, we're doing this to make you a healthy human.
And I think that's, looking back at my parents not having any experience with nutrition or sports psychology or sports or anything, it was like, we're gonna have a balanced dinner. Like, here you got meats, we got pedos, we got fruits and vegetables. You're gonna wake up and you're gonna have a balanced breakfast.
Right? I think it was more about like. The balance. And probably I do reflect back on them 'cause they were so naive to the process. And obviously I'm on the flip side now, right? I'm a dad and I've been through it all and I have a better understanding of what it might take, but I still feel like a very, like, we're doing this 'cause this is what's best for you as a human.
Not like we need you to be a NHL superstar. And I think they do tie together when done correctly and working out like, hey, like go, you need to go work out. Like it's, it should be fun to get stronger and, you look better with your [00:14:00] shirt off or whatever it might be. It's not just about like, Hey, like you need to go do plyometrics so you skate faster.
Like, let's, I think when you, when there's a connection of like, we're gonna try and make you a better human. And that might be when you're 20, 30, 40, or 50 you've built some of these life lessons along the way that's gonna make you healthier and happier and hopefully more successful in whatever you might do in life.
Jason Jacobs: Okay. And we're definitely gonna dig a lot more into the whole like, state of the game now versus then and your thoughts on player development. I know it's a passion area for you but sticking with the Freddy story. So, you. You played in the pros. Talk a bit about the transition. I know it sounds from other interviews, like it happened a bit as a surprise before you were maybe mentally prepared for it.
So how did it come about? Where did that leave you? How did you transition into development? And then how did that coincide just from a timeline standpoint with when kids started coming into the picture? 'cause I think that matters when we get to the the coaching and doubting [00:15:00] part of the discussion.
Freddy Meyer: Yeah, so Igra, I graduated BU in 2003 and then signed with the Philadelphia Flyers. And then, like I said the first year of 3 0 4 was I spent. 98% of the year. And the miners, they got one NHL game late midway through the, it's the second half of the season. Philly had a, I think they had a few fights or something of the night before, and they were short, a few players, so a few of us got called up.
And then my second year of 4 0 5 was the first lockout that, that kind of during my time span of oh 4 0 5 and the American League at that time, for anyone that's a hockey junkie, you should go back and look at some of those rosters from oh 4 0 5 and Providence Bruin, had Patrice Bergeron and Jason Spaza was playing for the Binghamton Senators in New York.
And Eric Stahl was in, I think in Lowell for Carolina. And you, the American League was very strong. And we had a pretty strong team in Philly with a couple flyers that got dropped down, plus, some of the older veterans we had and some younger guys like myself and a few others.
[00:16:00] And so we ended up winning the the Calder Cup that year and the American League beat Chicago. To win it. The Chicago Wolves always had a super strong, I do have, still have a really strong program there. And that kinda led into like, I think proving myself that was a fun experience playing the American League, but in a way it was like a young NHL and you're like, Hey, I can have success.
Like, I'm like holding my own against Patrice Bergeron. Like, I, you like, I I'm all right. Like I can do this. Then coming into training camp, that following year in oh five I actually broke my leg in an exhibition game and which set me back six or seven weeks and finally got healthy and spent another couple weeks in the American League and then finally got called up and essentially played, the rest of my career in the NHL at some location.
But played in Philly there for about a year and a half, and then got traded to Long Island for a couple years. I did get dropped on waivers, the old behind the scenes of the NHL in Europe. A fifth, sixth, seventh, eighth defenseman. It's not as sexy as, vetch can take in one timers and sitting in his office.
So bouncing around a little bit on waivers with Phoenix and San Antonio, then back [00:17:00] in Long Island and finished my last year in the NHLI think was 10 11 when I was when Atlanta was still, well, when the Winnipeg jackets were in Atlanta. So, unfortunately got hurt and Atlanta concussion set me off in February for the rest of the season.
And then my last year, pro was that, that got healthy that summer and then we ended up over in playing for Moto Hockey in the Swedish Elite League in northern Sweden for my last year, I think, which was 11 and 12, 2012. And during that journey, obviously I had I got married in oh six and I have a son that was born in oh seven.
My my son Freddy was born in oh seven, and then my son Carter was born in 2009. So. Lindsay and I and my wife, obviously we had kids pretty quickly in the process, so, as you, you're bouncing around and you're in Atlanta and you're, unsure what your status is gonna be from day to day.
And obviously that there's a lot of anxiety that goes into it's incredible honor and and have achievement to play in the NHL. But obviously, like I said, when you're a bubble guy and you're holding on by a thread, you feel like every day you're always [00:18:00] making sure you don't look the GM in the eye too closely so he doesn't wanna pull you aside and send you down in a lot of ways.
But for my boys, obviously they were around it when they were young. And then for them that kind of like my dad, had kicked in when we were over in Sweden. They were like three and four now or so. And obviously where we were located in Sweden was essentially at the North Pole.
So the, in the, in December it got dark at, it got light at like 10:00 AM and got dark at 2:00 PM So from. Two to seven, you got these two rugrats that are buzzing around the apartment. And we would put the snow suits on and the old JOA bubbles and you'd go down to a local park and they the town workers managed the park.
The old, the baseball fields in the summertime became hockey rinks in the wintertime. And they just started skating same way. It was like jfa bubble snow suits, hockey sticks and a puck and crashing into snow banks and buzzing into each other. And just the same way it organically developed a love for the game.
And it's been fun to watch their journey from, like I said, from the snow banks of Sweden to I [00:19:00] guess the streets of Boston.
Jason Jacobs: And so what how and when did you ultimately leave the game? And then what did that transition process look like? And, how, and how did, and I guess the third question, and gosh, three is a lot of questions to fit in one question, but but then how did you end up in player development?
Freddy Meyer: Good question. So, yeah, when I, my, in my last year of GUE was in Sweden. I also got hurt around Christmas time and had a flare up at concussion. So unfortunately, I think I was 30 or 31 at that point and still in a lot of guys prime with their career, but made the hard decision.
Of walking away from the game at that point, just with, I always had a lot of anxiety with like, with the concussions of what the next one might be like. And, knock on wood, I got, I feel like I'm in a pretty good spot here after, 10, 13 years of not playing. But obviously it was a tough decision at the time and but for me, maybe it probably, since I had young kids I wanted to be in the best shape I could for them and always was concerned about what the next [00:20:00] concussion would look like.
So we moved back from Sweden to, to Greater Boston. And at that time I didn't know what I was gonna do. I was, kicking around some other interviews and trying to figure out life a little bit. And I always say my wife was the one that was constantly pushing me to be like, why are you looking outside of hockey?
Like, you've played at a high level. This is, this is what you've always known like. So with that I reached out to some GMs that I had contact with over my time of playing and. I was lucky enough to get an interview with the LA Kings and they had an assistant coach position available in Manchester, New Hampshire.
So, my first two years of not playing pro hockey and retiring, I was able to work for the Kings up in Manchester for two years as an assistant coach. And once again, there was, we had a lot of really good young players at the time before they won some Stanley Cups for the Kings. So, it was a great place to learn and develop.
And same way now you're on the other side of the icer, on the other side of playing, you're now coaching and trying to help young guys take the same path you took, which was awesome. It was fun to work with pros and guys that are passionate about and really [00:21:00] wanted, the finer details of the game.
And so that was an enjoyable couple years. And I guess for me, 'cause I bounced around a little bit as a player, we were trying to just get our feet settled in Boston so we knew we wanted to stay local and a lot of those American League teams are starting to move west to be closer to their parent clubs.
Although coaching, American League or the NHL is an incredible accomplishment and incredible job. You're also away from your family a lot. And I always reflected back on of, my parents and I don't think they missed, I dunno, five games my entire career.
And so for me, I was having some anxiety of what my next path would be and I knew if I was coaching pro hockey, you there's a lot of conflict and you're away from your family a lot. So I decided to pivot and got into doing some junior coaching locally in, in Bedford Mass.
And at the same time started my own development company dream Big hockey stars, where we started doing, private lessons in small little clinics. And obviously just, I, once again I think a biggest part for me when I started that was about like, kids having fun. Like if you're coming to the rink, like the coach should be high [00:22:00] energy and the drill should be fun and the compete level should be high.
And just fostering an element of like, yeah, we're gonna have, it's gonna be hard, it's gonna be serious, but it's gonna be fun. And so anyways, it's taken, it's taken off a life of its own from there. And that probably that, that was then back in 2000 12, 13, 14, when I was doing the Manchester thing and getting things off the ground and obviously having young kids that I knew, needed skill development in a way and wanted to be on the ice in the spring or a couple times in the summer I started building some programs around them and then, and developed it from there.
Jason Jacobs: I've heard you say before that you consider yourself more of a player development person than a coach. What is the difference in your mind between. Player development person and a coach and and how much overlap is there between the great coaches and the great player development people?
Freddy Meyer: So, yeah, I think they, obviously, they tie together closely. Sometimes I feel like in a way if you're just coaching, you're running systems, you're [00:23:00] putting in face off plays, and you're just I guess I look at like a lo as a local New England guy, like a Bill Belichick approach where it's very like, and I don't know Bill or what his background is in terms of developing players during practice and stuff.
But, from afar watching on tv, like he's. He's managing the entire game. He's orchestrating this thing and it's pretty to watch and it's very calculated. And so there's definitely an element of that when you're coaching. And then I do think for me it's in a big piece of what I've, I feel like I've tried to do as I've been a coach is also the development piece, right?
Where Yeah. May, maybe you're teaching d on how to use the net or why to use the net or how, how do you protect the puck and why, and where's the little quiet space in the offensive zone? Or, trying to have the, have kids at any level, if it's tier three juniors or it's prep school or it's, like I said it's kids, local kids.
It's trying to teach the game at a higher level. And in that, even when I'm, like I said, when I'm coaching at a prep school or I'm coaching, juniors, like the fun part for me was making us a better team. And a lot of it goes through like, development and teaching the game at a higher level, not just putting in really fancy [00:24:00] systems and trying to like, like play X's and o's the entire time.
But like. Teaching guys how to see ice, teaching guys how to, make the right play and not just make the easy play in a lot of stance. And I think with that you do need to have a longer leash. 'cause guys are gonna make mistakes. And they need to know if they're gonna make mistakes, they're gonna go back out probably next shift.
Now, if they make the same mistake over and over again, maybe we need to have a further conversation. But overall, like, Hey I want you to make that play. That was the right play. You just didn't execute it. Do it again next time and make and execute it. And so I do try to find that balance of, yeah, you're coaching, you are putting in face off plays and you have a neutral and four check and you have that stuff.
But it's the same way. It's taking that next step from a development approach of, Hey, if I'm coaching in my eyes outside of the NHL, like all those guys are trying to develop to get to that spot let's not lose sight of that as a local, 2015 youth coach. Like, I shouldn't be coaching, I should be developing because my job is to get him ready for the next level and then it get moves on.
If you're a head coach at a division one hockey program, like your job is to [00:25:00] develop, to move those kids onto the next level. And not losing sight of that. I think sometimes at certain levels and certain coaches, it's all about winning. And a lot of times, if winning is always the end goal, then you can lose sight of that development piece.
And I've tried to hopefully, hopefully players I've had, will would back me up and say, with development you can win. Just looking at it a little bit structurally different versus like, coaching to win, let's develop coach to win is my, is my approach.
And I try to take that mindset when I walk in the rink each day.
Jason Jacobs: I definitely want to keep focusing on this player development thread, but one question I forgot to ask before we transition was, you said something really interesting, which was that the the coaching path in the a HL was fertile ground, but it didn't fit with. Your priorities from a family standpoint?
That resonates with me because I'm dealing with that right now. I'm 49. I have a lot of good professional years in front of me. I'm super ambitious by nature. I've [00:26:00] had some success, but success is relative and I could have a lot more success and like the table set for me to go and take a big swing entrepreneurially, but I'm prioritizing family first and then I'll build the kind of company I can build within the constraints of not messing with how present I want to be with my kids.
Right. Was that a difficult decision and what advice do you have for people trying to navigate that tension? Because, from my seat, it seems like inevitably the grass is green, is gonna look greener for whichever path you choose. You're gonna, you're gonna look at the other one, longingly.
Freddy Meyer: Good. Yeah, I feel like, I think once again, I think I just, for me, it was reflecting back on my childhood and how much time and what, how my parents, I guess parent, if that's the right word, where they didn't miss a baseball game or a soccer game, or a hockey game or a practice, or very col very collaborative with both of 'em always being present.
And I just feel like there's a lot of power for that and obviously. I feel like for me it was, hey, I got these young boys and I don't really wanna miss, I don't wanna miss much, is there [00:27:00] a way for me to control my own destiny, sleep in my own bed every night, and be around them and be super present and, luckily I was able to find a job that, that worked that we made work and obviously I guess proud to say, like, I, my, my younger guy Carter will play at the national program here in, in September.
And he hasn't had many coaches in his life, and not that I'm scared to let him go or let him, be, learn from somebody else. 'cause I think that's super powerful too to have different messaging and different teachings and coaching and hopefully it just keeps adding layers to his game.
But. I've been fortunate enough to, be on the ice with him, since he was, like I said, jumping into the snowbank in Sweden with his skates on. And and even my older guy, Freddy, like, I've been on the ice, almost their entire careers. And obviously I was fortunate enough to get a job at the river school and be able to work there and coach them there too.
Just the timing worked out and so I've been around them a lot. Hopefully they appreciate it. I, there are moments where I feel like hopefully they have a a coming to Jesus moment when they're in their thirties and forties, be like, wow, like [00:28:00] you did a lot of, you did a lot of, you did a lot for us.
And not that I want a pat on the back, but just more about, trying to do the best I could as a father. And for us as parents and hopefully, when they're my age and they look back like, they choose a path too to be, they have kids, to be around their kids and really, lean in to developing.
Develop good humans, right? Like it's, it wasn't about me trying to make them at each others or make them get to the national program or any of that. It was literally just about like, hey, like there's some good, really good values that you can find in sport. And, when you have parents present, I think it's super powerful.
I,
Jason Jacobs: So maybe talk a bit about the progression in terms of just timelines. So as Dream Big was coming up and then the oh nine Eagles and you and did you also coach the oh seven Eagles too.
Freddy Meyer: yeah, I've always been I haven't been the head coach of that team, but I've always been part of that Yeah. Part of that equation.
Jason Jacobs: Okay. So you had the kid coaching, you had the dream big stuff, and then you had Rivers. What did those [00:29:00] timelines look like and then like where did the kids game fit into all of that? So were the initial Dream Big programs built around your kids and their friends, for example? Or just how did those dots
Freddy Meyer: Yeah. I guess initially with Dream Vega? Yeah, just organically grew. I think it, obviously when you have kids that are coming up that are different ages and obviously they have teammates that they play with, and I think obviously when you're coaching teams, like obviously you have your you're around a lot of families and so I, I dream big in terms of when we setting up programming, initially you started with a couple age groups that kind of centered around your kids and that grew to older age groups.
And I've always done a lot of private lessons, which is always been enjoyable on my end because you can really slow the whole world down and really focus on that individual and what they actually really need to work on especially when they're at a really good age and they want to learn and want to focus and you build up their real fundamentals that will stick with them throughout their entire lives, even if they're playing, beer league when they're [00:30:00] 45, and they learned how to get on their outside edge when they were six. Like they don't lose that. It's similar to riding a bicycle in my eyes. So, yeah, we grew dream big through that. Obviously during the fall and wintertime, things slow down a little bit just because you are, I was, coaching two youth teams or club teams.
And then when the boys rolled enough and I got the job at Rivers their seasons pivoted into just being fall hockey. So they, play in the club teams in the fall. And then we'll call it November 1st, it's a week or two later, those seasons kind of end. And then the prep school season kind of kicks off through the winter months.
So, obviously there's been some weeks when I'm on the ice a lot. When when the kids are in their prime where you're coaching a couple teams, a couple nights a week, plus games on the weekends, plus privates, plus coaching the junior team where we'd practice in the morning and the afternoons are free and you're on the ice and then you're racing.
To Newton to get to daily, to jump on Eagle's ice for the next couple hours. So, but same way, even for me as a coach and it's I'm on the ice a lot, there's not too many bad days that, that you're at the rink and that you're on the [00:31:00] ice. And I think when you have that mindset and you enjoy it and you know you want to have fun and it's easy to put your skates back on and get back out there.
Jason Jacobs: There, there's a lot of talk here in New England about the New England model versus the Minnesota model and how the Minnesota model, looks more like, at least from my seat similar to how the model was in New England when I was coming up. In the game where it's like you played for your town and it was all non-profit.
And the same core kids tend to stick together year over year. And then with club now it's more privatized, the teams are more transient. There's maybe less development happening at the team level, and then more is left to the kids and families to do on their own. There's not a core group of kids that, sits together and builds chemistry year over year.
From the cheap seats here, it seems like you did things pretty different with your, with your Eagles team in terms of that core group sticking together from little guys all the way through. But how do you think about the state of hockey generally and here in New England and then [00:32:00] what elements of it I guess how is that the same or different than the approach you've tried to take in your own little bubble, with your kids and with the teams that you've coached?
Freddy Meyer: Yeah, that, that's a, it's a big conversation about, Minnesota versus Michigan or Minnesota versus Massachusetts and who's developing the best players and, I feel like it's probably, it's been going on. I feel like it's been going on probably since, I was going through it obviously now with social media and everyone's got their phones at their fingertips and Twitter and all this other stuff, so you can constantly see statistics and data and all the points and
Jason Jacobs: I've heard your tow drag rants. We don't have to cover
Freddy Meyer: yeah,
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Freddy Meyer: I guess for me it's I don't think Massachusetts is in this terrible spot that sometimes is out there, to be honest with you. Like, I think we have some really good players here. I think you could dive through the most recent national team national Team 40 camp, or if we wanna look at U 15 select festival and we wanna look through some of these all-star games.
Like, like I think you're, there's you're trying to find [00:33:00] like Minnesota in, in, in in, it's not like Minnesota players are so much better than Massachusetts players that we're not even on. We shouldn't even be in the same rank. Right. And I feel like sometimes that conversation seems to be that great and I think it's more like, do I want A or B?
They're very similar. Like, what do I want? What do I want? And I do get a little disappointed that there aren't more Massachusetts kids and I don't have an answer on why it's actually something that, that I've thought a lot about going through this summer and seeing. The National Development Camp 40, and in some of these all-star teams and teams that link a cup and some of the stuff like I, like, I think there needs to be a deeper, like a deeper dive by USA hockey if they really want make this like honest and pure because I think there's still some really good players here in Massachusetts specifically and I wanna make sure those players are like, on people's radars.
And so, I, 'cause I obviously I've been on the ground I've seen, I'm gonna say the best of the best, but I've seen a lot of kids from the oh seven birth year in the oh nine birth year and being on the Eagles and [00:34:00] playing at nationals or playing at tournaments throughout the year.
Like, like the talent is very even. Yeah. There, there's a few one percenters every year that are gonna come from wherever. But outside of those one percenters, like the talent pool is very even. And I do think the one thing that does help Minnesota, and I don't know their exact model, but. I think their price of entry to play hockey is a lot cheaper than the price of entry to play hockey in Massachusetts.
So I think with that, you're better athletes. Everybody can afford to play ice hockey, and I think in Massachusetts, and it's not just Massachusetts, but maybe in the rest of the country, like the point of entry's, not $500, like $500, barely gets you a skate laces at peer hockey these days.
Right. So like, I think the point of the cost of entry has affected the best athletes might not be choosing ice hockey in Massachusetts. They might be choosing another sport. And not, and I know the other sports aren't cheap either, so it's not just a, ice hockey's expensive and other sports are free.
But I do look at like the price of entry [00:35:00] of, if LeBron James was growing up and hockey was in his backyard and it was affordable, like what would he look like on ice? Like, and so I, I do think that has affected a little bit because I know. Due to their model in Minnesota, I feel like it's very town organized and the state probably subsidizes some of it.
And like they keep a lot of kids in-house and everyone starts playing. Which I think in theory is gonna have, your better athletes are gonna keep rising based on their natural athletic ability in a lot of ways.
Jason Jacobs: And then less geogra geography specific, but more about kind of the rise of specialization happening earlier and year round play and spring and summer tournaments and the credentialed hockey coming earlier and earlier with the q and the brick and and thi and these elite tournament teams and things like that.
What has your philosophy been as a dad and as a coach, as it relates to how to [00:36:00] optimize? Well, I was, that was, I was gonna lead the question and say optimize development, but like, I'm just scratch that last part. What has your philosophy been, period or
Freddy Meyer: Yeah, I would say, having two boys come up through the system neither of 'em did, the brick they have my, my older guy played in the Peewee Quebec tournament 'cause his team was in first place or second place in the EHF. So they had, he had that opportunity.
Carter, my younger year, I didn't have that opportunity 'cause we, we ended up third, I think that year versus in the top two after the first 10 games. So, they've done, a handful of tournaments like I would say a handful, meaning like one to three per spring. Probably since they were eight or nine.
And a lot of that was like, Hey, let's get your buddies together and put a dream big team into the Montreal meltdown. And go up with some really cool families and have a really cool, fun experience. And I guess as a dad, I was hoping we went two and two and we could leave on Sunday morning and get home at a normal hour versus making it to the finals on three o'clock and getting home, more Monday morning.
[00:37:00] But no they, for me the, I think the big piece of the development is tournaments are fine if that's what you're into. I think my guys specifically and my philosophy is, we play three on three in the springtime, we don't skate much. And then summertime, they'd be on the ice a couple days a week.
With me doing what I call now is position specific training, but say like higher end hockey development. And same way where there's a huge element of fun. Tournaments are fun if that's what you wanna do, but make sure you, you're doing it because you wanna have a good experience and not thinking that you're missing the boat on a development opportunity.
Or if you don't go to this tournament, then. Your kid's not gonna be any good. Obviously capitalism is great in a lot of ways and going with the right mindset of like, I don't need to be at every event. It's not gonna change the future of my son. And obviously as long as he's got a passion for the game or she has a passion for the game and they're working hard and competing hard and they will keep getting better.
Organically,
Jason Jacobs: So do your kids play other sports besides hockey?
Freddy Meyer: [00:38:00] Growing up they, they did soccer for as long as they could in the fall before hockey got a little chaotic. And then up until I think two years ago, they played club, they played town and club baseball through the spring. Like I said, the springtime for us is, the gear more or less is, has gone, goes away.
And they always, like I said, played baseball all spring long. And like I said I usually would get ice on. Usually Sunday afternoons or evenings and run three on three. And kids come, music's playing and we just, we, change up every 45 to, to a minute, shift length and have fun.
And there's no coaches. There's no dad's on the bench, no one yelling, screaming. It's like, Hey, just come and compete and have fun and put your gear away till the next Sunday and play baseball through the week and get back at it.
Jason Jacobs: Well, I hear some people and they say like, look, like if you're, like if your kid is special, like you'll know it and no amount of you steering the ship is gonna. Make your kid special if you don't know it. Right. And I don't mean special, every kid is special, but like special [00:39:00] in the game.
Right. And then there's other people, like some of the top player development coaches that I've talked to have told me, off camera, that it's almost like, like give me any, any, anything of clay and I can make them a star. Right. And so you're a pretty confident player development person.
But your kids also have good genetics and you've also seen a lot of kids come up in the game. What is your takeaway as it relates to nature versus nurture and how much is innate to the kid versus imparted by parents, coaches, otherwise?
Freddy Meyer: I do think there's I think there, there is a big piece of genetics tied to, I'd say not just hockey, but athleticism is how I would probably describe it. Like how fast a kid can run, how fast a kid can skate, how high can he jump? How big is he gonna be, right? Like, unfortunately size plays into this a little bit too.
So I definitely think there's a large piece of it that becomes genetics in my eyes based on, not based on their hockey genetics, but based on their a, their athleticism. And then [00:40:00] from that, like how motivated is the kid? Obviously if you have a kid that's super athletic but highly unmotivated and he doesn't want to get better, like the, excuse me, those are tough kids to work with, right?
I think for anyone to say, if there was a kid that had minimal athleticism, but he had the best skill development coach in the world, like, there's just too many layers to trying to build that process out to really get that kid to the next level. Like I, I say that, and I guess for me it always goes back some of my fa favorite clients or clients that are like, Hey, like, he just wants to like, be, he just wants to learn how to lift the puck.
Like, he's just like the expectation. As long as like parents, I feel like. Just have appropriate expectations, would be how I would describe that, right? Like, I don't think the expectation should be like, my kid needs to be a division one athlete, or my kid needs to play in the NHL. Like, I need to do all this to get him there.
Like, the expectation in my eyes is the key. And it's like, hey, like he wants to have a chance to play high school hockey. Like he just wants to be on a team at the high school level to have fun and [00:41:00] compete and like, let that grow. Right? Is that JV hockey, is that thirds hockey at maybe at prep school or is that varsity hockey in the ISL or nsec, right?
Like let that kind of develop and grow. Like, I think when our expectations are unrealistic like it you're setting yourself up for failure, right? Like, I had no expectation of playing in the NHL. Did I wanna play in the NHL as a little kid playing street hockey in the middle of nowhere in New Hampshire, of course.
But like, there wasn't this expectation of I had to get there. My dad's, my parents took me to Massachusetts. 'cause like they wanted me to become an NHL. That was. They didn't even realize that was even possible, probably back in the day. Right? Like, and so I think that for me is some of the best clients.
Like I said, I have been kids that like they're hungry for information. They can focus when they're on the ice. And they just wanna get, they just wanna get a little bit better. Like, it, there's no like, Hey, I want to get to the NHL, how do I get there? Like, and I do think like there's a lot of gen genetic coding that goes into, into life.
It's like, certain kids get into Harvard, certain kids don't get into Harvard, right? Like, like, and a lot of that is the same way. There's an [00:42:00] academic piece that's genetic as well. Right. So I think I dunno if I went on a little bit of a tangent in circles, but for me, I think there's, it's definitely, there's definitely a genetic piece and there's definitely a a piece of for the player to really want to get better and whatever that better means, whatever that like level is for that person.
Jason Jacobs: I just, in listening to you talk, one question came to mind that I don't think I've ever been able to ask. So, acutely as I'm about to, not to over promise, 'cause then I'll under-deliver. It's not anything, profound, but but in my mind goals and love are not necessarily the same thing.
Right? And so when you look at the kids that have gone the furthest that you've seen come up in the game, either, in your playing days or now as a dad and coach clearly the love needs to be there. What about goals? Right? Like is it this big overarching goal and you're working towards it every single day?
Or is it just like, love and [00:43:00] yeah. And hard work and take it as it comes. Like, do are goals an important element in this? Or where do they fit in, if at all?
Freddy Meyer: I guess I'm not a huge goals person. I guess I wasn't raised that way. I never was in that mindset. I'm like 100% love. And just like living in the moment. And I always reflect back on, obviously with the oh nine Eagles. The three kids have made the US Nash program, my son, fin Sears and Sam Pandolfo.
Like those guys love the game. Like we will be on a Tuesday at Daily Arena in November and they score a goal in a two on two small area game, and they're like. Celebrating and cheering and like, like loving it. I'm sure the goalie's parents and always loved my approach to this, but like for me it was like, scoring goals should be fun.
Competing out, competing your buddies should be fun. Like that, that for me is like the end all, like, like you score goals. Like enjoy it, celebrate it, just as the goalie makes a huge save, like he should be, he should enjoy that. If you're in the moment, like you're a goal, you're, you gotta make saves.
But so I [00:44:00] think for me it's not about like that goal. I need to make it, I need to, make the national program. It was more about like, for me and having my hands on a lot of this oh nine Eagles team coming up through like, it was like, let's enjoy this. Let's have fun. Let's compete hard.
And a lot of our practices, that's what they, that's what it was. It wasn't, Hey, we're gonna work on our four check. We, the truth we told, like up until, up in the, like, we barely ever talk for check. We don't talk systems. We talk about like. Competing hard, protecting pucks using our bodies like, like the want to score goals, the want to defend, like doing a lot of the details.
It wasn't about like, what's our for check Like that's, if you have, if you put the right guys together and they have enough fun and they compete hard enough, like, that's what it was for us. And I think a lot of it is just the passion of the game. And same way like this kids would celebrate and practice like that.
Like that's a good thing. Like, that's not making fun of the goalie or, teasing somebody that, that's just like enjoying that moment. Just like if I was on a two on one in the NHL and practice and I whatever, knock the [00:45:00] puck off John Teva's stick, like, I'm probably gonna say something to him like, like, I got you.
You're not good enough for this league. Like that's just enjoying that moment. Which I think you really need as a kid all the way up through like that passion and spirit is very contagious and your teammates will love it. And before you know it, you got this collective engine that's really like working together.
Jason Jacobs: Clearly I think that cohesiveness in chemistry, like in building any team, even outside of sports, it takes time to develop and it's important and it's hard to come by once you get it gelling and working. Given that as kids get older and pub puberty's not evenly distributed and, girls come into the picture and other distractions come into the picture and things like that, how do you navigate that cohesiveness and developing with what you've got, with with having the best horses as the landscape continues to evolve under your feet?
And I'm asking you that both as a club coach, but also as a prep coach and I guess also, as a dad that, that might be seeing your kids cap out on a given team or things like that. Like what, how do you navigate it from the different perspectives?
Freddy Meyer: It's a good, yeah, I think it's a good question. Obviously [00:46:00] there's nowadays with phones and technology and. As they get older and, there's different vices and like, I do try to, I guess say to kids, like, when you come to the rink and you kind of change outta your street clothes and put on your hockey gear, would be like, in my eyes being like, Wally, the green monster at Fenway Park.
No one knows who Wally is, right? Like, he goes into Fenway Park under the cover of Darkness, puts on his suit, and next thing you know, he's this mascot that's getting the fans involved, fired up at the at the next Red Sox game. And I do think for kids, like there's a lot of distractions out there.
And obviously as a parent, I'm trying, you, you're trying to keep your kid on the railroad tracks or they keep doing well, when they get to the rink, like that should be their time of like, I'm putting on my, I'm taking off my street clothes, I'm putting on my hockey gear, like it's time to like go have fun and love this and put my phone away.
And a lot of these kids aren't away from their phones that much anymore as they get to a certain age, so at the rink, like the phone's in the locker room, I'm on the ice. Like, I'm not even thinking about TikTok, I'm just like. Lock in, locked in to have fun at the rink. I think that's like for me, even when I, coach in high school hockey, like there's some dog days of January where you're like, oh man, this [00:47:00] is, practice 62 in January and we're exhausted.
But I think it's like that element of like, same way you're out on the ice here, it's, it's cold, but it's fun and it's competing. And you're going up against your buddy that you have class with and he got better grade on you on a test and now you're on the ice with him and your defenseman, he's a forward and you're trying to shove him down.
And once again, for me it's all about like the love and the passion for the game. And I think that's even, at the highest level when it becomes a job for guys and you're playing in the NHL, you're playing pro hockey somewhere. Like you still gotta have that passion. 'cause if you don't, it makes life really hard.
And I'm sure that's with any job, if you work at Wall Street or you. You're work at a law firm or whatever it might be. Like you gotta love it, or you're in your emergency room doctor, like, yeah, you're gonna have some bad days and some off days, but hey, you put on your scrubs and you walk into the er like you're ready you're ready to, to do the best you can do and kill it that night or that day.
So, yeah, that, that's always been my approach.
Jason Jacobs: So that's good. On the distraction piece, on the so slightly different question, but as a coach, how do you [00:48:00] navigate when to develop and when to recruit? And then as a kid or a family, how do you navigate when to stick it out or when to shop?
Freddy Meyer: Yeah, it's a good, it's a good, it's a loaded gun. No obviously everyone's situation's different in terms of like, Hey, is this the right team for my son or is or my daughter, or is this not, like I always value a couple things and the whole team club thing when you're going through, it's like.
Like, where do I live? Where's the team at? What's the location like? How crazy am I about to get with this decision? Like, and who's coaching my, and who's coaching my kid? Like, alright, the team's not great, but I have, I have Scotty Bowman or some, crazy guy coaching my kids who's unbelievable.
Like, what's that long term track look like? I think you referenced my Eagles team. A lot of our kids, the core group have been together for eight, eight years or so, like, they've come all the way through and obviously I was, I was the head coach and Jay Pendo was there as 99% of the time as well.
So like, these kids had this like, good coaching structure that parents, I guess trusted and respected and they, most of the people stuck with it. So I think those are two things. Like, where are you [00:49:00] located, where's the team located? Like to go from a team that's below 500 to a team that's slightly over 500 and you gotta drive more and the coaches isn't as good like.
Not a good decision in my eyes. So I think like, as a parent, each situation's a little bit unique, but like, don't, the grass isn't always greener is what I guess is probably an easy way to say it. So in terms of that, and then yeah, in terms of like, in terms of me working at a prep school, obviously Rivers is sixth through 12th grade and it's a super competitive ISL school and I'm looking for sixth graders to 11th graders to be honest with you.
Like, and once again it's being a day school our windows a little bit tighter around the greater western area. And same way it's getting families interested in the school and then having conversations with 'em and trying to be honest with 'em of, where the team's at and hopefully where it's going and what, what does practice look like and is it competitive and do kids have a good experience?
Like I, a lot of it for me is at a club team or at a skill session or at a high school practice, like, [00:50:00] like I want kids to have fun, right? And obviously there's gonna be kids, it happens every year. There's gonna be kids, especially at the high school level that aren't playing as much as they hope to, right?
Like unfortunately at high school hockey the coach plays in his eyes who the best players are gonna help them win that particular game, right? So, and those are always hard conversations and always like I'd say my least part of being a coach is making those decisions. 'cause obviously we'd love to have everyone play, but life isn't always fair in that sense.
And obviously you need to get better at X, Y, or Z, so you give yourself a better chance. And you never know when that door might open up for you. I've had kids that weren't playing much and all of a sudden they were a defenseman and someone got hurt up front and I asked 'em if they could play forward and they took the ball and ran with it, and then they're playing every third shift and they're having a great experience, right?
So, I always think, even at the youth level where. Everybody should be playing pretty much fair across the board, maybe till late in the game. You never know. Somebody might get hurt, somebody might quit, somebody might move. Like, and like, you gotta be the guy, but you've been [00:51:00] sulking on the sidelines, the past three months and you're not ready for that opportunity.
So, I hope that answers the double.
Jason Jacobs: It. It does. Yeah. And in a similar vein it, it seems like the hockey path in terms of progressing in the game is only getting harder as it's more comp. Like I look at, when I was coming up, I fell into playing division three from a crappy public school.
Right. And and like that, you don't fall into playing anything these days. Right. Yeah. And and then the entry age is getting older. You've gotta go to juniors in between. The best kids might not even finish prep, then you've got the Canadian major juniors, right. And then those kids are coming in and taking the D one slots of the D one kids that thought they were gonna D one.
So, so I guess as a dad of, in an academic in a long term minded family, I'll say, I was gonna say academic, but it's not even academic. It's more like. Optimizing for life path and loving the game, right? But optimizing for life path, right? It sometimes feels like the hockey path and the life [00:52:00] path, like are, can be at odds.
So, how do you know as a parent how to navigate that tension? 'cause we've talked about the long term hockey development, but like, where does the life path fit in and when do you have to hit the brakes on the hockey and maybe get some perspective on what really matters?
Freddy Meyer: Yeah, it's, and I it's a tough question to answer 'cause I think every situation's unique, right? Like, and obviously.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. And you're in a different spot too, because
Freddy Meyer: Yeah, and I'm living through it as, as a dad as well, right? Like,
Jason Jacobs: And your kids are coming up, like on a, on a very competitive
Freddy Meyer: yeah. So it's, I, you know what, I do think every situation is unique. I think you have to, nowadays because the landscape's so fluid, I feel like it's probably like, six month evaluations or t at the very least 12 month evaluations of, Hey, my kid's a pretty good club hockey player.
Like, do I send him to prep school? Like, yeah, that seems like a good fit. We went and watched a bunch of games. I think he can play at that level. And then he gets to the prep school and, he's doing better than we expected and he's like, trending and it's like, next thing you know, he gets drafted in the USHL and the Quebec major junior draft.
And it's, I think it's very [00:53:00] fluid. I think obviously sports has played a huge part in my life. So, as, I guess as a dad I'm, I don't say pushing sports down my kids' throats, but like I want sports to be part of their lives. Not that we're gonna chase it to the moon and back, but make calculated decisions that involve sports that still can set them up for success in their day-to-day lives.
I think that's really the key, and I think like, I always would say, to, to, when people ask me this question before, like, you should really be dominating a level before you move on to the next level, right? So if you're playing prep hockey and, you had a decent year, but you struggled a little bit, like you probably need another year of prep hockey.
If you played prep hockey and you dominated in, in theory, like, yeah, now you're probably ready for that next step. Because each step up the ladder gets tighter and harder. And you don't want to, you want to be prepared for that. And obviously if we have this conversation in 12 months with the world that we're living in, like it could be even different, right?
Like, it could be like, no, like you need to do this quicker. But like right now I would say like, be comfortable where you [00:54:00] might be at and, focus on. Trying to control what you can control and how well, and how good you can play at that level. And then, all right, I'm ready for the next challenge.
And what is that? I'm at prep. Do I stay all the way through? Is that the right track? Or like, I had a really good year, like I need the next step because I need to be challenged more. And I think that's, I think that's always how, in my eyes, like as a dad, like even at the youth level, like, if I'm playing just town hockey in Newton, but I'm on the squirt ones and I'm, no one can even stop me.
I'm like Wayne Gretzky. I've scored 500 goals in in my squirt year. Like, you probably need to find that club team that's gonna challenge you more. And then, if I'm on a lower level club team and I'm really killing it, like, all right let's take that next step up the ladder versus like, trying to get to the top of the ladder.
But you really should be down a peg or two. And you swimming in the deep end and you don't touch the puck. It's not fun. It and you get frustrated and the game, you've lost some of the. You've lost some of that balance and why that sport should be important in your life.
Jason Jacobs: [00:55:00] Its, it is a tougher road to play in college today. I guess one clarifying question is, do you think that's a good thing or do you think that there are changes that should be made to increase the supply to better meet the demand? Like, should everyone be able to play in college or is the fact that it's getting scarcer and harder a positive 'cause?
It makes it more special.
Freddy Meyer: I I do feel like I, I'm hopeful at some point some of these SEC schools and some of these other larger schools will get division one ice hockey. Like I think there's a lot of good players that don't get that opportunity. And then there's a lot of good players that should have division three opportunities that don't get that opportunity, right.
'cause this supply and there's only so many seats available at the table. And I think that's always. The tough part for me when I was doing tier three juniors or doing, coaching at Rivers and you have kids that, want to play college hockey. Like it's really hard. It's I don't wanna say it's impossible 'cause it's not impossible, but it's really hard and there's a lot of really good players and there's kids from, from, Massachusetts to [00:56:00] Minnesota, to Arizona, to Texas.
They're coming from everywhere. I hope, hopefully NCA wise division one wise for sure, some more, teams open up, especially with bringing in kids that obviously can, that have, grew up in Canada or have played major Junior, obviously you're bringing in, I dunno how many kids will come down a year, but obviously that's gonna open up more kids coming across and taking.
Potential seats at the table. So, but once again, it's obviously, no goal is easy to achieve. And I think kids, in terms of if they want to play college hockey that's great. Like, all right, like, let's work towards that. And then keep evaluating, each year on how that looks and what you might need to do.
Or maybe at some point is yours. Maybe it's, Hey, this isn't, we gotta focus on life. Like, you need to go to school because you're gonna come out and do X, Y, or Z versus just focus on hockey.
Jason Jacobs: I've heard some people say that with the ch with the changes, the game that some of the implications in prep could be that the best players don't finish in prep. And also that maybe Reclassing starts becoming, I was gonna say less mandatory, but [00:57:00] I'll just say less important for for hockey kids. Do you agree with that or do you have a different take?
Freddy Meyer: In terms of kids graduating from prep.
Jason Jacobs: Do you think that what do you think do you think Reclassing will be as prevalent in the coming years as it is now? And do you also see the trend that maybe there'll be more kids leaving prep earlier for juniors and not finishing out
Freddy Meyer: Both of my boys Reclassed. I do see a lot of power. I do see a lot of power in the reclass, to be honest with you. I do think it allows you to get, bigger, faster, stronger. Obviously, with anything like maybe certain kids are ahead of the maturity piece of the development piece, so they're already bigger, faster, and stronger than their current age group.
Obviously I don't ever, tell him they have to reclass. Like I think it's a very family choice. But I, I've seen it with my own kids where they, reclassed and have had success with it. And I think, I dunno what the percentage is we'll say in the ISL or in prep hockey, but I do think lots of kids.
Have been through that reclass of some level at some grade. But same not, I think every [00:58:00] family's a little bit different and everyone's situation's a little bit different. Like, I think you wanna, I think that if you're going to a prep school, in my eyes, like as a ninth grader and a 10th grader, you want to have success.
You want to play, you wanna be part of it. And sometimes that reclass gives you that chance to have success as a ninth or and a 10th grader versus, oh my God, you wake up at the end of your sophomore year and you just, you haven't done much. You haven't played much, and now you're a junior and you just feel like you're swimming in the deep end where you're like, how am I wanted to play college hockey.
And I, like, I'm just finally getting in the lineup. Like, this is, what am I doing here? So, I think that's where it gets a little tricky for some families if they get through the process too quickly. Versus maybe reclassing and getting an extra year and giving a little Johnny A.
Little extra time to get up to speed.
Jason Jacobs: Do we have time for a couple other quick topics? How you doing?
Freddy Meyer: a minute or two left before I gotta scoot it back upstairs.
Jason Jacobs: Okay. So you told me before we recorded that you thought video was was the next wave in development. Why do you think that and how do you see, like, what's your wish for how video will be utilized in the future?
Freddy Meyer: I [00:59:00] I think kids nowadays are very, obviously tech savvy. Everyone's on their phone, iPads, TVs, whatever it might be. So I think it's a good way, even at school, like they're very, iPad centric. Like, so I think it's how kids are seeing life and understanding life in a way. And I do think with hockey being a very fast reaction based game kids need to see mistakes and or posit pluses or minuses on video.
Multiple times where they can start hopefully quantifying and tying some of those wires together in their brain. To help them take that next step in their development. And obviously there's, at the highest levels or at the, even at the high school level, we do a lot of team individual work team work, and we do a lot of individual work as well.
If kids want to come in and watch their shifts. And I think when they, when you get in the habit of reviewing their shifts and trying to watch it a little bit more as a coach than a super fan where you can start seeing tr trends and patterns and identify them and same way try to put them into use the next practice, the next game.
I always get excited as a coach if you're, if you've been working with a kid and you're asking to [01:00:00] do a few things and it finally like clicks in and the next time you see him, like he's all amped up, that he's had success doing what we've been talking about, and next thing you know, it led to a goal or maybe a block shot, whatever it was.
You're starting to tie those patterns together and because it is hard as a player, I feel like. When you're on the ice and you're buzzing around in a game and you get back to the bench, you're I don't wanna say you black out when you're on the ice, but you get back bench and the coach is like, Hey, like remember early in the shift when you were on the wall and you didn't get the puck out, and the kid's looking at you like, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Like, last shift three. Like, when did that happen? So it's really a good tool to go back, especially as a coach on a team, to go back and show that kid maybe those clips. Obviously it doesn't, it can't be too negative because he's gonna tune you out. So it's finding that balance. And I do think like from a, as kids get older in, in high school or college or pro, like in having like a third party third party professional if you want call it, that can help with that form of development as well, where it's like, Hey I listen to your coach.
I'm not telling you anything structurally. Let's look at, let's look, you're a winger. Like, let's look at your wall touches. Like, [01:01:00] how are you taking the fuck off the wall? Like, did you shoulder check? Why did you not use the middle of the ice? Like, did, why didn't you get your feet moving in this situation?
I think like kids can. I don't say feel it 'cause it's on video, but like, feel it, see it, touch it. And really help them to like tie the wires together in their brain so it hopefully helps further their development.
Jason Jacobs: Awesome. Well, we covered so many wide ranging topics. Fred, thanks so much. Is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did, or any parting words for listeners?
Freddy Meyer: No, I thought it was great. I think it's same way, the only thing I would say to anyone that's listening is make this enjoyable for your kids. Going to the rink should be fun. Putting their gear on should be fun. Competing with their friends should be fun. Obviously they should be working hard and competing hard, but at the end of the day, like, good game, bad game, limit the car ride exposure on the way home.
Let. Let coaches hopefully handle some of that, but at the end of the day, like, let's have them enjoy it, right? Like make them want to get up in the morning, go to the rink or in the afternoon or evening, and just overall enjoy the experience and let them [01:02:00] maximize what they're able to do with who they are as an individual.
Jason Jacobs: Well, great point to end on and great discussion. Thanks so much and best of luck to you and and to your family as well.
Freddy Meyer: Thank you. Appreciate you having me on.
Jason Jacobs: Thank you for tuning in to the next, next. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did and you haven't already, you can subscribe from your favorite podcast player, whether it's Apple, Spotify, or any of the others. We also send a newsletter every week on the journey itself. The new content that we publish, the questions that we're wrestling with, how the platform itself is coming along, that we're planning to build for player development, and where we could use some help.
And you can find that at the next next.substack.com. Thanks a lot and see you soon.