In this episode, host Jason Jacobs speaks with Kevin McCoy, former Lose It partner and a dedicated 'hockey dad,' about his journey and current efforts in youth sports, particularly hockey. Jason chronicles his transition from looking at AI and flexible business models to focusing on sports tech and youth player development, especially within hockey. They explore Kevin's hockey background, from his childhood playing days to coaching and developing the next generation of players. They discuss the significant changes in youth hockey, including the increase in business aspects, and how player development and recruitment have evolved. They address the challenges and strategies in ensuring balanced training, preventing burnout, and enhancing player development through modern tools and techniques. The conversation also delves deeply into the state of tech in hockey, highlighting existing gaps and opportunities for creating more intuitive, accessible digital platforms to support player development.
In this episode, Jason Jacobs, a seasoned entrepreneur, shares his journey towards building a new company focused on youth sports, specifically hockey. He recounts his evolution from exploring AI and flexibility in startups to delving into sports tech due to his experience as a parent involved in his child's hockey development.
Jason hosts Kevin McCoy, a long-time friend, and youth hockey coach, to discuss the differences between past and present youth hockey, the role of technology in sports, and the importance of balanced development for young athletes. They also explore the potential of a digital platform to transform player development by providing accessible and structured training at home. The conversation highlights the need for better user experience in sports tech and how AI could revolutionize talent discovery and development.
00:00 Introduction and Host's Journey
00:30 Exploring Sports Tech and Youth Hockey
01:08 Guest Introduction: Kevin McCoy
01:36 Kevin's Hockey Background
04:08 Youth Hockey Development and Coaching
16:21 Differences in Hockey Ecosystems
29:12 Balancing Development and Competition
34:20 Dad's Role in Development and Exposure
35:42 Challenges and Strategies in Youth Hockey
40:27 Importance of Off-Ice Training
43:29 Balancing Skills and Hockey IQ
46:24 The Role of Video in Coaching
48:07 Technology in Hockey Development
53:53 Future of Player Development Platforms
01:00:48 Final Thoughts and Advice for Parents
Jason Jacobs: Welcome to the next, next, I'm the host, Jason Jacobs. As a reminder, this is a show that is chronicling my journey as a longtime entrepreneur to figure out. What I'll build next. Now, as some of you know, if you've been tuning in, I started out focused on how to build different in a way that could have a lot more flexibility and control without compromising ambition.
And I also took a look at AI and how it was transforming how we work and live, how startups get built and funded and how. I might be able to leverage it to build different, and, uh, I've recently turned my attention to sports tech again, like my old runkeeper days and specifically youth sports and even more specifically, hockey as an initial market because that's where I'm spending a large percentage of my time as a dad.
I've been looking at ideas around player development and building stuff. Digitally at home that enables kids to stay engaged with their [00:01:00] training in between the formal in-person activities, and also be a partner in a holistic way through their development journey. Today's episode is with Kevin McCoy.
Now Kevin used to work at Lose It, uh, which was a Runkeeper partner. Runkeeper was a fitness app lose, it was a nutrition app and they had a nice integration both Boston companies and got to be friends with the Lose It team as well. And, uh, the CEO of Lose It at the time. Uh, Charles Teague saw in my newsletter that I was heading down this path and thought I should talk to Kevin.
Now I've known Kevin A. Long time, but I had no idea that he grew up as a hockey nut, and now he's a crazy hockey dad who also, uh, owns a uh, club and also does a bunch of, of skills and camps in the summers and trains hundreds of kids and, and has a son that plays the game pretty seriously as well. He just got drafted into the US PHL.[00:02:00]
We have a great discussion in this episode about Kevin's hockey path as a kid, about his path now, uh, as a hockey dad and as a coach and as a club owner, uh, we talk about how the path is different for kids coming up now versus when Kevin and I came up in the game many decades ago, and we also talk about what types of tools exist for training and development.
Where some of the gaps are, where some of the opportunities are and what might be possible with, uh, a digital platform like the one that I've been imagining. It's a great discussion and I hope you enjoy it. Kevin, welcome to the show. I.
Kevin McCoy: Thanks, Jason. It's great to be on.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, well, you are a, a brave man. I've been doing this podcasting thing for a while and then I've been doing this new podcast for a few months, but I think this is the first hockey specific one. And of [00:03:00] course, as we talked about privately, I am, uh, I am, you know, heading down this path to build this company in, in.
Hockey focused on player development and opening up the access that the tippy top, that the tippy top of the game has access to, to, you know. Those that are just coming up at a more accessible price point and logistics, et cetera. But this is brand, a brand new focus in the last, um, few weeks. And, um, when I heard from Charles that you, uh, had been focused in this area for a long time since leaving, lose it, it was like, gosh, uh, just an, just an obvious person to, to catch up with and, and swap notes with and we might as well do it live.
Kevin McCoy: Yeah, no, I'm, I'm excited to do it and yeah. Near and dear to my heart for sure. I've been. Um, player developing for a long time. Like, like, you know, like over 10 years, maybe 15 years. Like, just, just got back into hockey once my kids got in. And then just like most hockey parents just kind of all in. Right?
So, um, [00:04:00] yeah, I'm excited to see what, what we, what you can come up with. Once you, once you spend a bunch of time with people in the, in the industry, I think it'll be, it's gonna be really interesting.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. Well for starters, maybe just tell me a bit about your own hockey journey. 'cause I didn't even, I mean, I've known you for a long time. I didn't even know that you even played the game.
Kevin McCoy: Yeah, so I, I played, I probably started playing hockey, I guess when I was four years old. Um, loved it. Played into, played up, uh, through high school, college. I played at, uh, Western New England College, um, back in the nineties. And, um, right when I got outta college, I kind of, I took some time off, like you and I were talking privately, like I just got all into startups and really, like, it kind of took, like, one of the things I, I realized about hockey was I just enjoyed the team and the competition that we, we we took on. And I was looking to replace that when I got outta school. And the startup thing was like, right?
Jason Jacobs: we've, that is, we have that directly in common. [00:05:00] I have that same, same exact story, but keep going.
Kevin McCoy: Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Kevin McCoy: um, you know, got into a really good company with a layer, if you remember the cold fusion stuff and
Jason Jacobs: Oh yeah. Oh, so that's how you know Charles.
Kevin McCoy: yeah, that was in the most incredible ride, I think. I think anybody that worked at that company will tell you that was the most incredible ride. Um, and then did two more startups. The last one being with Charles. Again, Charles Teague is who we're talking about. Um, he's a, he's a good friend of mine and just super smart guy and, um. Charles and I had hockey in common. Um, probably didn't realize we both had hockey in common until we got to lose it.
Um, where we had, um, fantasy Hockey league and uh, it got really competitive and it was a lot of fun. We did that with some of my friends. Um, and of course Charles also ran it incredible fantasy football league in the company, um, which is a. People will tell you it was a lot of fun. But, um, yeah, so then, but then I had my, I, I've got five kids.
My second, uh, who's, uh, chase started [00:06:00] playing hockey and that's when I jumped in and started coaching when he was like four or five,
Jason Jacobs: And that this was still in the Boston area, right?
Kevin McCoy: still in the Boston
Jason Jacobs: Mm-hmm.
Kevin McCoy: I'm up in Boston. Um, and, you know, he played up in Marblehead and he played for the Shamrocks, um, north Shore Shamrocks, and then he played for the Islanders Hockey Club, which I coached all of those. Um, and I just got like, you know, I just really enjoyed it. I think, I think just teaching kids how to play hockey and like, you know, I think the thing that I wanted to bring to the, to the kids was like, I had this great experience playing hockey. I was a good hockey player. It wa it didn't come super hard to me, like playing, actually when I got out of, I never had that, unbelievable. Um, coach that, but I got that guy when I got out of hockey and I actually had my first job, which was a guy named Patrick Morley. And I, I was like, man, people need to be exposed to people like [00:07:00] Patrick Morley and what they do. Like, that's just like leading and integrity and that kind of stuff. And like that was super important to me to make sure, like that's how I was coaching kids.
So like, you know, development skating, like I did it 12 months year round, literally for the last. Uh, I think 14 years, like just we did it all summer. Um, you know, like any of the kids on my team I would run camps for. And like, I never, never really made much money on it. Like I was just trying to cover ice time.
'cause I was just trying to give kids an opportunity, um, to get better. And, um, yeah man, it was just, it was, we just, I just, I, there's been nothing more rewarding than what I've been able to do for the kids that I coached. And when I moved down to South Carolina in 2020. Um, I had, you know, my, my son's a 2008 and we played a year down here and realized like, down here there's like Charleston, there's Greenville, there's Columbia, and then there's another program in, in Greenville area called The Rage, which now they've [00:08:00] merged.
So they're actually the Carolina Rage they're the Greenville Rage. But, um, but there's three programs, so it's not like, you know, hey, uh, I don't love what's going on in Marblehead. I'm gonna go over to. You know, whatever, Salem, or I'm gonna go to the Islanders. Or it's like if you, if you're not happy, like you gotta drive two hours or three and a half hours. but after playing those teams, I realized, man, there's like, there's a bunch of 2000 eights that are like really good. Like, you know, I'm coming from Boston, moving to South Carolina, not a hockey, not hockey country. And we just had this class of kids that were really good. And actually, like the most important thing was we had a bunch of parents that were really good and they were like, they, they, I started running summer programs for these kids for the oh eights first.
And we called it s it was, it's still going s sc United Hockey Club. it's where we brought all the kids from South Carolina. We have a few kids from Wilmington, North Carolina as well. And um, we started [00:09:00] playing. AA tournaments and then getting them exposed into the AAA tournaments. And we started that five years ago. and we did it every summer. And then kids started playing, started playing together a little bit in the, in the regular season. And then two years ago, all of them came together and we played, um, under the main Nordics, AAA 15 U team. And they did amazing. They ended up winning the United Tier One League. Um, they played in the regionals where we. Play, uh, new England regionals where we faced some behemoths where, which was good. Good to get exposed to Mount St. Charles. You don't play teams that good all the time. Um, but you know, like so fast forward to like, this year we had another good year and then like, there's kids now from this team that are going, like, my son's going to Taper Academy.
He got drafted the U-S-P-H-L-N-C-D-C. one of my other kids, Ben Craddick, he got tendered to an NCDC team. [00:10:00] Um, um, on another one of my players, Mateo Russo was going to Nichol School next year, 18 u aaa, usually a top 30 team. Um, another kid's going to Elmira, Caden Matson, which is another AAA program. one my goalie going to Pomfret Prep school. Um, I mean, I could just go like, I got another kid from Florida who played for us. He's in oh nine and he's gonna prep school in Rhode Island. Um, um, like, so like. Five, you know, four or five years of development. And like, we just kept taking these kids and putting 'em in front of, in, into different, um, you know, higher, higher levels of play. And, you know, at the end of it, you know, they're, they're sophomores, juniors going to play at like, in the best league, you know, and like have a opportunity to play in college. So I'm like, it's just been an incredible run for, for that group. And like every kid on my team, I'm like, I've got a kid that's like in Wilmington. kid, Jack McDonald, he's, he's, he's a bowl. Um, he's going to his senior year in high school, so he doesn't wanna, [00:11:00] like, he just wants to finish it. So I don't know where he is playing next year, but like, that's a kid that should be playing AAA hockey somewhere in the northeast or the Midwest, and he probably will, but he wants to finish hockey. we had another kid that, uh, Andrew Contos, he finished school early as a junior, so he's going to play in Potomac in DC U-S-P-H-L Premier, like the saying, like all the kids. the kids in the families bought 'em. They trusted me. And like, I'm, I'm giving you a list of like, I could go through every kid on the team.
They're all going somewhere, which is awesome. You know what I mean? And, and we did it all year round, but we didn't burn 'em out. Like there's extremes on both sides. There's extremes of people that say like, oh, you gotta, you know, just take your skates off for the summer. that's an extreme. And then there's extremes of like. need to be on the ice five days a week and you know, they need to be skills and doing all these tournaments, you know, like we, we kind of were in the middle, right? We did like two or three tournaments every summer. And again, we kept introducing 'em to higher level stuff. Um, and then we kept introducing 'em to higher level stuff [00:12:00] in the fall, in the winter.
And like the development just happened and, uh, and it was very healthy. Um, so, so yeah, that's one of the things I just love about it.
Jason Jacobs: Well, gosh, as I've listened to you, there's so many different threads I'm eager to pull on. I, I guess the first is just as someone who. It was a big part of your life growing up, uh, the game of hockey and, and then taking a break from it and then coming back in as your kids went into it. What are the biggest differences that you see from the game as you knew it as a kid to, to today and, and youth sports in general, really, I.
Kevin McCoy: Yeah. So it's, it's a business. I don't know if it was a business as big a business when I was growing up. You know, like I, and I always say like, look, there's a pyramid of players, right? And the top of the pyramid, those kids are, those kids are just so good that they're, know, they're, they're, they're gonna get picked up and they're gonna get seen and they're gonna play.
And then there's the next level. the pyramid, which is still high up, but there's like [00:13:00] 3000 kids there that are similar. And that is where I would say, you know, of us parents, if you aren't like all in and like it is just so political and like, if you don't think people are getting on teams because they know people or someone's helping 'em get on the team, you're crazy. Um, so if you realize like. I'm on a team and there's a bunch of, there's like, Hey man, there's one or two kids that are awesome and then my kid's the next kid. You're probably in the 3000. Right? Which isn't a bad place to be 'cause your kid's a good hockey player, but like, go to work and, and that, I think that's the big, you know, and, and then it's just obviously when I was growing up, um, you would go to, you'd go to college after high school right?
And go play college hockey. And now it's like. you know, you're getting committed, but you've gotta get on a junior team and the junior team, you gotta play at least two years. And like in, and at that point, colleges that maybe you committed to are evaluating you [00:14:00] still. And as long as you play well in that league, you'll likely get that scholarship.
I'll still have that spot when you come out. Or maybe you come out and you don't have a commitment and those junior teams help you get a commitment to college. But like, that is, that is complicated. Um, and it's tough for parents to understand because. Um, you know, like my, my roommate in college, he played junior hockey before he went to college.
Um, but his dad was, uh, a Canadian guy and his, his uncle's, you know, played pro NHL, his uncle's like a hall of fame goalie in. That's just what they did. They're like, well, you go play juniors and you try to go to the NHL. So that's what he did. But most of us in the US didn't know anything about juniors.
You know, like we just like, Hey, you, you played through high school and you assumed you could play in college if you're good enough. Now it's like, well, what junior program do I go to? You know, there's, you know, there's a whole, uh, tier of it, which we, which everyone understood right up until last year when the NCA made those changes. So, you [00:15:00] know, previously it was like USH L's, the best league that's, you know, that's where the top of the top go. And then you got like the North American Hockey League and you got the V-C-H-L-V-C-H L's probably maybe a little higher than N, the NHL. And then you had the U-S-P-H-L, which has three levels, but the highest levels is good.
Tier two. But the other two levels are, you know, premier's good, but the other one's like, I dunno if you wanna even bother playing in that you should just go to college. Um. And then the NCA made the rule that, hey, we're gonna let these Canadian kids that have been getting paid, I mean, they're not really getting paid.
They're, they're probably getting stipends for food and stuff, but they weren't allowed to play in college before. now that, you know, the nil stuff have come out, um, NCA, they were gonna get sued. So they're like, cool, all those Canadian kids can come play. So now it's like. The kids that are in the USHL are trying to get to the OHL in Canada, because that's the best league in Canada.
And so that's where it gets, like, for parents insanely crazy, um, and trying to figure [00:16:00] that out. Um, you know, so it's one of those things where a lot is, a lot has changed. In the end, if you're good, you're gonna play somewhere. but it's, it's just a lot more work now because you gotta, you gotta really play the. You gotta understand how the machine works and you gotta help, you gotta have some people helping you get along along the way.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, given that that chase started in the Boston area and then moved, how, how old was he? When he moved. And what are some of the biggest differences that you found between the the New England hockey ecosystem and the one in South Carolina?
Kevin McCoy: So I think we moved when he was a, I wanna say a second year. Peewee, the middle of the season. Um,
Jason Jacobs: That's like right where my kid is. My kid just finished his second year. Peewee. He'll be a first year ban him in the fall.
Kevin McCoy: yeah, and,
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Kevin McCoy: crazy thing too for me was, and I think you're experiencing this, was he was just starting to, like, he was up like, like he was playing islanders, uh, [00:17:00] they called it black then. I don't think it was platinum then, but platinum. You know what I mean? and their team was really good. Um, and they, I mean actually like a bunch of kids on that, on the, on that team, which was the second team. Are playing like varsity prep school hockey right now. Like they're, and it was just interesting to see like all those kids, 'cause there's a lot of kids I think on the team above 'em that aren't, um, so like, this is the whole thing with like, you just don't know what happens when kids grow and go through puberty and all that stuff happens. Um, but, you know, the, the, big difference, Boston's just like, number one, it's the commitment to hockey is incredible, but Boston, you're probably not driving more than an hour. You know, maybe you go and play those Springfield teams once in a while. and the Carolinas man, you are like a, a, a good close game is three and a half hours away.
Jason Jacobs: Oof.
Kevin McCoy: Yeah. And you're, you know, and they're doing like weekends, like where they're trying to get two or three games in against the team. So you're doing that kind of stuff. Um, so [00:18:00] it's challenging. The level of play isn't nearly, is isn't even close. But I will tell you, um, you know, that, that that's why like a lot of kids that are good have to leave.
I. And have to go, you know, home and go play in Michigan or Minnesota or Boston. Like they in
Jason Jacobs: is, so is is Bill it less relevant for a, for a Boston kid?
Kevin McCoy: Yes, it should be, you know.
Jason Jacobs: Hmm.
Kevin McCoy: Um, now I will tell you, Florida hockey is like, when I moved down here, we started playing tournaments in Florida, like right after we moved. And I was like this, these Florida teams are good as any Boston team, and they're listed as AA teams. so there's the, there's the whole my hockey thing, which is like those teams can't really get as high a rating as a team in Boston because they don't play any of those teams in Boston. You know what I mean? So there's like, there's that, know, how to work the system and, and it's just challenge. But when I went down there, we're playing these teams. I'm like, these teams, these, like, they're [00:19:00] good and they got a lot of hockey rinks down there and like, that's, that's a thriving hockey community down there.
You know, of course they have Florida Alliance, which. You know, the way the Florida Alliance works is you play on your AA team and then you also play on the Florida Alliance team if you make it. So it's like those are like the best kids in Florida. those kids, um, that, that, that's why when you see Florida Alliance, they're usually a top 10 team in the country.
'cause it's literally like an all-star team from Florida that's playing AAA hockey. Um, you know, so that's a, that's a really good, you know, they, they, they've just got really strong hockey down there. Um, but yeah. But you know, the interesting thing I'll tell you is like when I came down here is like we moved to Charleston.
We were playing in Charleston the first year. there's a guy named Hunter Bishop that is maybe the, honestly, one of the best skills guys in the country. And he would do the skills for Charleston. He does all his local stuff. He, but he has like pros that come down during the summer just to train with him.
He trains the Stingrays, which is the E-E-C-H-L team. So the, there's, and there's another guy that used to be coached at Sing [00:20:00] Rays and now he's, um, on the board of Charleston and he runs a lot of training and. A guy named Ryan Blair. So like they have good resources here for the kids. Um, you know, so like what I try to tell parents, especially here is like through 12, you, like you can survive because it's really about development and like become the best skater you possibly can be and become, you know, work on your skills. Um, and you can kind of get that upgraded play during the summer, like get on triple teams play in the summer, but like. Don't waste gas, don't waste your money on gas. Use the money on on the ice time. So get on the ice with Hunter Bishop. Get get on the ice with those guys. Like stop worrying about like, I, I don't, you know, I don't like this coach or, uh, you know, I don't feel like we're playing a good enough league.
Like you can survive and, you know, through 12, you, I think once you get the 14, you, that's when you gotta like, make some decisions and make sure you're playing because that's start to matter. [00:21:00] Like things start getting reported in 13 U and 14 U. Like, you know, you look at like elite prospects all of a sudden, like a 2011 kid that was, uh, 13 U this past season, now their stats are showing up in elite prospects and who they play and stuff.
So starts to matter then. So you really, like, that's when you gotta get a little bit more strategic, but like from a development perspective, even in like Greenville, they have great skating guys. They have great, you know, so they, they have all access to like, um, and I know Columbia does too, so like, you, you can stay local. Um, but I definitely like in the summer, like get, you know, like again, what we did with the 2008 class was like, we just kept getting 'em on the ice together and go competing against competition that was a little bit higher than they used to. And model worked really well for them. They all skated locally.
Um, you know, again, until like last year when they. two years, they played together all season long. but yeah, it's just a little, it's a little bit tougher 'cause you don't, you just don't have, you know, you don't have a hundred teams, you know? [00:22:00] so, and, and that's the problem too, is like, I, one, one of the things I noticed down here is like, there's a lot of, like, think about like the, so maybe some frustration you've had in hockey and with, maybe with an organization.
You're like, alright, it's time for us to move. Well, what you see down here is like, there's nowhere to go. So people are like stewing in frustration for years. There's a so like, it's, uh, it's a difficult place to like, you know, you, you feel like you can give the kids a good experience, but sometimes you can't get parents out of the history that they've had with the organization because they, they're just, they're just mad. they feel like they, you know, got the short end of something and, and again, like they're just kind of stuck. 'cause there's, there isn't a lot of options. So there, there's a little, there, there, there's a lot of that stuff that's you gotta navigate. Um, but, you know, like I said, make, if you get your kids skating, like make your kid the best skater possible, right?
Like, that is the key to this game. Like, they have to be a [00:23:00] great skater. If they're a great skater, they're gonna get, um, opportunities. Um, and that's, that's like my biggest advice to every parent is like. Um, you know, and under 12 man, like, that's when all the, like, that's the easiest time for them to develop.
Once they get like 13, 14, it's harder. It's, it, it just, every, every year it becomes a little bit more difficult to change something. Um, so on under 12 are the key years.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, when you say best skater. What does it mean to be good at skating and, and how does one work on it? Is it as simple as just finding someone that's a skating instructor and having them s skate with that person? Or are there different elements of skating that should be kind of pulled out and worked on independently?
Kevin McCoy: Yeah, I mean, I think, I think. A lot of people that I think have had a lot of success honestly, is um, there's like learning how to use your edges right [00:24:00] in inside and outside edges. Um, and the best instructors are figure skater, fig figure skating instructors, those, and they're usually women. There's a couple that I um, and they have hoards of hockey players that are there. They're working on how, teaching them how to skate. But those, those, you know, it's, it's, it's that part. And then, you know, again, like you go to a hunter bishop, 'cause you gotta, you gotta make sure you can do it with a puck on your stick. Um, and, and you know, guys like Hunter get you used to like creativity and like the right, um, you know, just like plays that, you know. They put you in situations and drills that you're gonna have to do in games, you know, so like, you get used to making those pivots and those quick tight turns and, you know, jumping and all that stuff. So, um, you know, and again, I just, it, it, it's just getting very comfortable on your skate, on your skates and being strong on your skates.
Jason Jacobs: When you think about [00:25:00] development, um, how do you know what the Goldilocks amount is between too much and not enough, and how much of that is one size fits all across? Kids, um, versus kid specific age specific level. Specific situation Specific. Like as a parent, how, how do you figure it out?
Kevin McCoy: It is tough and I think the key for me was always like, you know, chase or Declan, who's my younger one, it's like, do they wanna play? Do they want to go? Right? There's like a balance there that you have. Like I think a lot of parents are like, well, if you don't do this. You're not gonna, you're not gonna have the shot if you don't go to the shot, doctor.
Like, you gotta go today. Like, I think what you want to do is make sure when you know, you're, know, like you, you gotta balance the burnout. You don't want to burn 'em out. Right. And I, you know, I, and I, and I think I, I say that a lot to people like here. Um, [00:26:00] we still do some SU United tournaments, which are lower level triple A, higher aa, and like, I don't have Chase in those this year 'cause he's doing a bunch of those camps with like Nall and all that stuff. But there, like, there was a weekend and at the end of June that he was gonna play in Nashville. Well, we were playing in Nashville, but he wasn't playing. And he was like, can I play in that tournament? And I'm like, yeah, if you wanna. And I like, I've had other kids say to me like, well, what's that tournament gonna do for me? And it's like, it's okay if that's your perspective, like you're trying to make sure you're doing valuable tournaments. But like my point is like he just wants to play hockey. he doesn't, he doesn't care if it's the, you know, but like, I think that's the balance is like make, if your kid, if you feel like your're pushing your kid to go to the rink, then don't just turn it off for a month and let 'em ask to go back. And I, and I think it, believe me, I haven't like, done this perfectly, trust me, like no one does. But like, that's the thing I learned is like, I feel like if it, it started to become a pain to go to the rink for the kids and [00:27:00] stop, don't go to the rink. make them ask that. Make sure they want, like they're asking you to go to the rink. Hey, we got a bunch of things lined up. You guys wanna do this? Yeah. Okay, great. And then like, you know, maybe halfway through it, they're like, man, I, you feel like they don't wanna like take a week off. And if they're like, w why are we taking a week off? Be like. Um, okay. If they want to go, go, but like, maybe you're like, we're just gonna take one week and we'll, maybe we will try it next week.
Like, I just think that that is a key thing during the summer. And I think, you know, the, I said, there's extremes, right? I, I'm definitely in the camp of like, have the kids play other sports. Um, it's really hard. Like one of the things that was a bummer down here is, you know, my, my oldest son Chase played lacrosse, lacrosse in the south starts in January. hockey isn't done until March. And like they have a very good lacrosse program in this town. And it was just kind of like, man, I can't, like, there's nothing he can do. We can't play, you know, like he's gotta be here playing with us in January. So, but you know, like that's why I'm excited for him to go to prep school next year because it introduces a, [00:28:00] a spring sport again that he can play. Um, and I just think that stuff helps. Like I always, I played baseball, hockey, football, and I just think playing other sports makes you a better hockey player if you can do it. It just. Yeah, it's just hockey's, hockey's in a crazy sport. I think they're all crazy now, but like hockey's definitely on, like just, it can take over your life.
Um, and if you can, know, if you're a lacrosse player and you can play those June lacrosse tournaments, just play 'em. Don't play hockey in June and then July. Work on skills and, you know, work on skating. Get back into it again, don't burn 'em out. And then August. Um, get him into some tournaments. It's kind of like a warmup for the season, and then you're going again, take off, take April off, don't do anything in April. But again, it's what your kid wants to do. If he's just like, man, I wanna be on the ice every day, then let him be on the ice.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, you, you talked before about how, uh, you played the game, but you never [00:29:00] had a really exceptional coach, and then you experienced exceptional coaches in the business world and wanted to bring that into the athletic experience for your kid and for the other kids in the area. Um, how, how do you think about coaching versus.
Development and where does the line stop in terms of the coach's role, and then how does that gap get filled when it comes to mapping a specific player's journey versus just trying to win games or make the club money?
Kevin McCoy: it's, it's co The, the coaching thing is complicated. Um, the development thing is complicated 'cause you have, you know, whatever, like maybe youth hockey, you got 15 kids, you get older, you got 20 kids, and. You know, like again, your, where your son plays in the EHF, you guys gotta make the playoffs. So like, you have to develop a kid, but like the team has to win to get into the playoffs or they're not, or, or those kids are all gonna leave next year. So, and it's like you, you want make sure you're [00:30:00] playing all the kids and all the kids are getting experiences. Like they, all the kids need to be out at the end of the game trying to win the game. But at the same point, like, you gotta win the game to get in the playoffs, you know? So, so it's tricky for coaches and then, you know, parents are like, oh man, he needs more work on this.
And it's like it, you know, like think coaches understand that. And I, you know, I think good coaches kind of break up their, their, their, their practices where they're doing some skills stuff. They're doing some skating stuff and they're doing some team stuff. but you never can, you never do enough because you have to manage 15 kids or 20 kids, like you're trying to, you're trying to do all of that and you, and. The Boston area is a special place because like a lot of the parents we're dealing with have, were like division one athletes that played hockey or another sport, and they want, you know, some of them get it, some of 'em are just so intense, they wanna win. They like, why aren't you trying to win every game?
And it's like, well, we're trying to win every game, but we, we gotta balance this with making sure we, these kids [00:31:00] at the end of the year are better. All of them. Um. Down here. It's interesting model because it's different because really what the teams are, especially like the AA teams, again, they're not gonna have any, they don't have any AAA teams.
There's a few, but um, in North Carolina, there's none in South Carolina. So all the teams get into the state championship. So you actually don't have to win any games. So that's, that's the interesting that, that's actually the upside here. Like you could actually on kids development all year and try to be peaking for the state championship and like, you know, because down here you're definitely gonna have a spectrum of players down to maybe weaker players.
And it's like, how do you get those weaker players up? And you can actually do you, you could put them in situations during the year. Because you don't have to win at all. You don't have to win every weekend. Um, so, but that's, that's a very complicated thing for, for, uh, for coaches for sure. Um, you know, and I think, I think that's [00:32:00] why most programs have the skills night and, you know, so they can get at least one skills night.
And, you know, and again, I think, I think part of playing sports is, um, is kind of like your perspective and your outlook on how you're going to. Take on the adversity stuff and just, you know, the competition. And that's why I say like, when I got outta school and I had good coaches, but I didn't have these like, like this guy was like a, you know, a world beater.
Like, he was like, you just wanted to get, you just wanted to do what he was telling you to do. 'cause like you just believed it. Um, and he led with integrity. and you, you know, and then that's a hard thing to do in, in software where you're, you know, you got monthly numbers, you're a public, you went public, you're a publicly traded company.
And it's like to, to get a team selling software that is doing it with integrity is incredible. Um, so, I was trying, like, that was the biggest thing for me [00:33:00] is like, like I didn't want to go in the locker room all the time and like being like. Laying into kids because we're not winning. You know, you wanted to like get their mindset right and like, you know, like, okay, let's, you know, let's, let's figure out, like, you tell me what, what we need to work on.
You know, like we, we didn't have the greatest game. We didn't do this, but let's go around the room and talk about it as a team instead of like, you know, like kind of bring everybody in and make everybody problem solvers. And I think that was the big thing that like I wanted to do with, with the kids that I coached, um, because that's what, that's. That's what worked for me when I was like, brought in and like, you know, like I was always like, the next job. Like, so you're doing, you're doing a job, but there's a job you want to get to that job too. Right? So, you know, if you're, if you're a player on the team, I. And you're, um, you know, and you want to be on the power play, we'll solve our power play problems.
If you want to be in the first line, well like, you know, like help us figure out how we get [00:34:00] everybody to the next level, right? It's a team thing. And, um, that, that, that had worked, that, that's always worked for, worked for me. But that's, that's what I tell everybody is like, I want to get these guys exposed to like a different type of, um, leadership so they can lead like that.
I think the more, more leaders we have like that out in the world, the, the better the world is, right? I.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, from a, I guess this is more of a dad question, but how, how involved have you been in charting cases development path, and how did that shift as he has gotten older?
Kevin McCoy: Um, so obviously I'm like a, a lot because I've coached him every year. Um, so, you know, but again, like I think again, like through 12, you. all about skating and skills and making sure like they're solid on the ice and they, you know, they can skate with everybody. and then again, like, like where, where we're at now, like, I would say for like the [00:35:00] last, you know, when they get to 15 you, it's like, man, now you're trying to get these kids exposure to the junior programs and like, and you, you know, you really wanna be playing in a good program and you, and um, you know, so for us down here, we had an opportunity to. play under the main Nordics, um, because they had academies down here since then, like the main Nordics and the Air Carolina, um, that runs Carolinas. Had a big fight about that and Carolinas didn't want that happening because, you know, whatever. Um, but it's just what adult adults getting in the way of kids development the problem. Um, but anyway, um, so, but when you get to 15, you're like, you, you want to make sure these kids are playing in situations where they, they get exposure and because coaches are looking, they're, they're gonna go look at elite prospects. They're gonna go watch video, they're gonna look at your schedule. They, you know, in, in Boston it's, it's a little easier, right.
Are [00:36:00] you. You know, are you Terriers Platinum? Are you Terry's elite? You know, like, you know, EI think either of those leagues, I think you're pretty, you're pretty good condition. And then, you know, then, are you playing in prep school? What prep school team are you on? Like what, like all of these guys. It, it matters.
Um, you know, so for us, it was a lot of work for me as a, as a dad to like, I have a whole video library of Chase's highlights because, you know, I felt like for him, he was a really good player. I needed to get him in. I wanted to get him to the New England Prep League just because like I, I think in the end not gonna be in the NHL, we're gonna be working somewhere.
So I wanted to make sure the education was part of that. Um, so, but I, you know, I had to like work, like he had to be good, right? That's the key. He did his job, he's a good player. And then I had to take, get all of those, make sure I was marketing him to those coaches. And a lot of the coaches said like, he looks good. He, [00:37:00] he's not like playing in like he played in like the Beast. Um, you know, but again, his team never got played against the top teams 'cause it's just who we were. And then he played N-A-P-H-L and they did, and you know, he did really good and against the good teams, he played really well. Um, and the teams that took a minute, the prep school coaches that took a minute and came watching him play were the coaches that, um, they were like, oh no, he can play here.
The guys that saw him on the video were like, he looks good, but I don't know the competition. And I get it. Like, those guys are getting like. 200 kids a year that are trying to play for the program and they've got five spots, right? So like, why do I need to take a risk on a kid from South Carolina? Um, so I would say I had a big part in this development. I would say. Um, there's a whole, like, there's a whole shift now where, uh, there's this whole advisor thing in play. So, and I think a lot of people are like, oh man, like, what is this? It's like a money grab. like, what are these guys gonna do for me? Like, unfortunately, these, [00:38:00] the advisors, like, they're pretty valuable.
Um, again, like it goes back to the pyramid, right? The, the kids at the top of the pyramid probably getting drafted first round USHL, like those kids might need an advisor 'cause they're thinking about NHL contracts. The kids in the 3000, right? The next level. Those kids need advisors because those advisors know the North American Hockey League coaches or know the USHL coaches or know the U-S-B-H-L.
Like, they're gonna talk to those guys and be like, Hey, you got a kid coming to your camp? Um, he's one of mine. Can you just take a look at 'em? And, you know, it'd be, you know, and just give 'em some feedback. Like, unfortunately, like that's, that's a big part of it, but it's serious. Uh, it's s it's something people should consider. Getting. And I would say like went through the whole prep school thing and I talked to all the coaches and I think the feedback was okay, the videos are really good. Like there was definitely an undertone of like, I appreciate you dad for telling me how good your kid is, but you know, [00:39:00] like, you know what I mean?
So like the dad thing loses credibility. Now on the flip side, all of those coaches and all a bunch of other coaches had talked to me about all my other kids that played for me. I had all the credibility in the world for those kids. But when, you know, so that was the, that was the challenge for me. Um, but you know, again, like if your kid's good enough, he'll get there, I think.
But I do think, like, as a parent, it's a full-time job, man, full-time job. Um, it just is.
Jason Jacobs: What, what about the a I mean that, so I asked you about development and you talked about recruiting, which is certainly a component of development and, and impor an important one. What about the actual development? And I know it's kind of blended because it's like, are you wearing your dad hat or are you wearing your coach hat?
But, um, I mean, the game's changed so much. I find that I'm spending a lot of my time just trying to learn about, uh, because it, it's funky to me to keep outsourcing everything to, to skills people when like. There's so much you can just do at the house, right? Um, [00:40:00] yeah. But, but in order to know what to do, I at least my kid, he wants to do it, but he needs some structure and in order to provide the structure, you need to figure out what you're talking about.
Right. Um, so, so I guess how did, how did you navigate that and, or maybe you just like, knew the game better than I did from, like, I, I grew up playing the game, but I feel like I'm learning the game for the first time now. Um, just given how much the game's evolved from when I was playing.
Kevin McCoy: Yeah. Yeah. So I do think, like, I was just kind of like in it, I'm on the ice. Um, but I like from a development span point, like, you know, when they're 13, 14, they start like, you gotta get, like the work at the off ice stuff becomes important. You know, like, and that was a big thing for like Chase, like going to the gym. Um, like already, like he was like, that was an easy thing for him. But like, you know, like, like again, back to the, the, the, the player development product you're building. Like you can go to my SC United Instagram, go back two years. I was a group of kids in, in Mount Pleasant, South Carolina. We were going, we were doing [00:41:00] weekly, uh, daily workouts, posting them.
And then I was posting a PDF. For all my kids in Greenville and Columbia and Wilmington, they could all do 'em. and that's how we were sharing those. But like that, it became very important to be doing those explosive off ice stuff in the off season. You know, like the, the jumping and just like, you, like, go check out the Instagram page and you'll see like, and it's, and by the way, it's really hot in South Carolina in the summer, so it was wasn't easy. Um, but like, you know, running Hills, all that stuff and like, you know, so I got very into, um. Again, because I was the coach and I had this summer program and I had kids, you know, last year we had, in the s Su United program, I think we had like, 150 kids, you know, from, the ages of 16 U down to 10 U. And that's what we were sharing and all these kids were doing those workouts, like, you know, 'cause they were, they were, they were non-weight [00:42:00] workouts. Um, but so like that become, you know, like, uh, I can't think of the book right now, but I read a book on, on, um, on weightlifting for athletes. But like, it was, uh, I
Jason Jacobs: I got a whole stack of books. I'm, uh, I'm, I'm on the front end. I've, I've not made it too far, but I'm gonna, yeah.
Kevin McCoy: a really interesting one, um, Triassic, something like that. Um, I'll send it to you 'cause you'll read it for sure. Um, and, uh, we started, you know, we started, we started doing those and um, you know, again, back to like. Our development model here was like, keep exposing these kids to higher level of play, you know?
So it was almost like a four year program. We had these kids in, in the summer, and it, and you know, again, it went from playing hockey. The next year, all of a sudden we're playing hockey and we're doing off ice workouts the next year. We're like, you know, now we're at the chowder, but we're not at the chowder cup, but we're not in the aaa, we're in the elite bracket now. You know? And like, and we're, we're playing, we're competing, we're winning games. Like, so, like we, [00:43:00] but like, so like. I just felt like as we didn't have to rush it, we had time, you know, and again, by the end of their 16, you all these kids were, could play at, at a, at an elite AAA level. You know, they're, they're not gonna be fir, none of 'em are gonna be first liners, but they're gonna be second, third liners on a, at a, at that level because we exposed it to 'em and they got the play.
We played everybody. Like we, we didn't bring kids that couldn't play to those tournaments. Um, and know, so I think that was important from development. Um. You know, the other thing, you talk about skills. One of the things, the skills thing is crazy because if you, you can talk to hockey, talk to Junior, you're gonna talk to more people.
But like, one of the things that we're losing is hockey IQ because
Jason Jacobs: was gonna ask, you stole a question I, I had in the queue, but keep going. Yeah.
Kevin McCoy: Yeah. One of the kids we're, because, because kids are going around cones and doing all this stuff,
Jason Jacobs: Mm-hmm.
Kevin McCoy: all they're doing, and they're incredibly skilled. But the hockey IQ is like that. Like, you know, and like, that's why, like [00:44:00] in what, when we're coaching me and some of the guys that I coach with, we, we talk about like reading and reacting and, and you know, like creating space.
But like we want them to like kind of visualize it and, and we realize it themselves. Right. And I think like some kids are so overkilled that like all of a sudden the game comes and they're like, the cones are moving. What do I do? You know, like, um, so, you know, I think that that's a, but I, I do think a lot of, I think this is, people have had this aha for, in like the last year.
I think there's a lot of people, like, you know, like we do, one of the warmups we do is like every, got, everybody's got a puck inside the blue line and they're just skating with a forward skating with a backward doing, doing, but, and they're exhausted and we do it for five minutes and they're exhausted.
But it's like, yeah. I mean, like, that's, that's like a hockey game. You have to. Uh, know, do a tight turn, but there's 12 other people around you, like do a tight turn with people around you. You have to get enough space to be able to do that turn. [00:45:00] and I think, I think that's, I think it's move. I think it's starting to move that way.
Um, but I think people got overkilled. one of my friends said a had a good analogy is like Patrick Kane, like there was only one Patrick Kane like 10 years ago. Now everyone's Patrick Kane, but there's no, no Keith CHUs. Right. There's one Keith or, um, Matt, Matt Chu or, or Brad Marshon, right? Like, these guys are like, they're different, like, it's almost going back, back to like, Hey, you gotta be tough. You gotta be able to play the game. You gotta be super competitive. You know? And like all the skills guys are like, that guy just like punched me in the face. I don't even punched in the face like. You know what I mean? But like the, the, it just, there's a shift, right? 'cause now like every, everyone, everyone's a Patty Kain.
But now, now there's like, well, the Florida's winning, the NH winning the championship. Look at the, um, God, it was, uh, the NCA championship. Like there was an incredible game. I think it was like [00:46:00] Penn State versus, uh, I think it was Penn State versus Yukon. Yukon was better than them. Their goalie, Penn State's goalie was awesome.
I think it, I think it was Penn State. Their goalie was awesome, but like. But they just played a super structured game and like just kept you kind of the outside and all the skilled guys in Yukons were frustrated they couldn't get inside the score. Um, so it's, it is interesting to watch that stuff for sure.
Jason Jacobs: What, what role does video play in in your coaching, if any?
Kevin McCoy: Ugh, I love video. Ask any of my players. We watch video all the time. It's the best, it's the best thing. And I honestly don't think the kids watch hockey. At all. I think kids watch, you know, Instagram or
Jason Jacobs: Mr. Beast. Yeah. Mr. Beast is their, is how they do player development?
Kevin McCoy: yeah,
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Kevin McCoy: they just watch the, the highlights. So, you know, we, it's funny, like video is the best, best possible tool we actually had in staff this year for our team, so we get every game, every kid shift.
So I could sit down with a kid and just be like, let's just go through your shifts. [00:47:00] Um, and it was, it's just the best teaching tool. Even like the problem, the problem for parents is the game has changed so much and they get frustrated sometimes 'cause their kid's not doing something on the ice, but like the kids developing and the game is different.
Like they want 'em can through everyone is scoring, but like sometimes the kid's playing a great game and after the parent will be like, man, I just don't know what to do to get him playing better. I'm like, think that was the best game he had all year. Right. Like, he's like moving the puck quickly. He's getting the puck back.
He's like, you know, and it's just like a different, it's a different game. So, um, I think that's the challenge for parents. Like we're, it's, it's gotten very advanced, you know, like, I mean, gosh, if you watch the NHL that game's so fast. Literally, I think we were watching the capitals and, um. Who are the capitals just lose to, they lost to, um, Florida.
Right? And it was, dude, it was so fast. And Chase literally goes like, now I understand why people that don't know hockey don't want to watch the [00:48:00] NHL 'cause you can't follow the puck. It's just it. And I don't even know how those guys play that fast. Like it's like a video game out there.
Jason Jacobs: What, what, what's your assessment of, I mean, especially as someone who spent, uh, a large amount of your career in technology. What's the state of tech in hockey? How mature is it? Where are the gaps? Where are the opportunities? Where's the pain?
Kevin McCoy: So, you know, I started at a, at a layer and then I went to something called Laslo, which was like really just taking user experience, working on user experience. And then I went to lose it and lose. It was like. A calorie counter that no one wanted. No one wanted a calorie count and it was like all ui, right?
It was like, we just gotta make it so easy to use that these people are like, eh, calorie count's not that bad. My point is, hockey technology is terrible, terrible. Now stats a great tool 'cause it's got all the videos in a list and it, and, and it's, you know, it's synced to a specific [00:49:00] player so you can get their videos. But the ui, the, the actual experience of using it is brutal. Um, like I talk about like, the reason we, you know, from a, from a, like a schedule and, you know, administrative perspective, team Snap, they built it as a consumer tool. That's why Team Snap's better than Sports Engine. Sports Engine built it as an administrative tool, so you could manage your club and the money.
And so it's good on the backend, but it's brutal for the parents and the, the players. So like. very, there's a bar, there's just a very unintuitive thing happening, like where the technology just isn't there. Like there, it's just the, and, and that's why I brought, brought up the, the user experience, the front end where. are they, they, they're just like, it's very frustrating. It's frustrating for me, but I think other people just don't even think about using the tech. Like, I wanna use the tech. And I think other people are like, I don't even know how to use that tech. You know, like, it's just [00:50:00] difficult to use. The ideas are really good.
Um, there's good ideas. Like there's, people are executing on like what they think people need, there's no easy way to get it. I mean, like from a player development perspective, like where do you go get the workouts? I don't know where to go. Like you, you got, you. You go find those guys on Instagram that are like training hockey players and like, you know, they'll sell, you know, they'll sell you like for a hundred bucks.
They'll send you like a 30 day workout sheet that comes in an Excel spreadsheet. Um, and if you kind of can match that up to their Instagram, you can see what the workout looks like. So you do it right, like. It is brutal. And by the way, I did that, all of that because I needed workouts for all these kids.
So that's what I was doing. Like, um, so yeah.
Jason Jacobs: H how, how much of the workouts that you're doing for the kids are things that, uh, require being, uh, in person. Or [00:51:00] on the ice even. And, and how much of it is stuff that if you gave them the right framework and and guidance, they could be doing self-paced on their own from home.
Kevin McCoy: The off ice stuff they can all do from home. Right. Again, it's just about an experience like, I mean, we've all done like a Peloton workout, right? That's a good, that's a good experience. That's a good delivery mechanism. Like you can do it off your phone, you can do it off the tv. That doesn't exist, you know?
So again, like, so that's why I was videoing our workouts on the field to show the kids the how to do the workout, like, and then they would have something they can go to like, okay, I got this sheet from Coach Kevin. You know, here's the first five workouts and they go to Instagram and be like, okay, here's all the kids doing the workouts.
Now I know how to do 'em. Um, so they can, you know, they definitely, you know, all the skills stuff, obviously you need ice, right? So like, um, but shooting, I mean, you're probably like, I think, I think I kids that go to like the shot doctor,
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, time my, I mean, my kid, my kid goes to [00:52:00] the shot doctor.
Kevin McCoy: Is that, that he's the one in Woburn, right? Is he the.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, he's got a, he's got, uh, well I think the, he might have closed Uber and opened it up somewhere else, but, um, but he's got one in Dedham and I, I think it's Dedham in Foxborough now. 'cause he closed Uber, if I remember right. Yeah.
Kevin McCoy: like there's him and there's another guy, um, and they're the best. Right? And you can see the kids that go to that, those guys. Um, can you do that at home? A hundred percent. Like, and I would go to their Instagrams and. Take their videos and figure out what they're teaching kids and they don't share at all.
But like, that, like, that's an example, like that skill, if you can shoot like they're teaching you, that's, you can make, you'll make teams because of that. Um, really expensive. It's expensive to go to them, but it
Jason Jacobs: Oh, it's all expensive.
Kevin McCoy: It's all
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Kevin McCoy: you know? So like, that is something like, like you certainly that can be distributed. Like where a kid can be doing that from his driveway. No, no problem. Um, [00:53:00] you know, again, there's, there's no distribution model though for that currently. There just isn't something that does that.
Jason Jacobs: And that's kind of. Uh, I mean, I've got, I've got two veins. I'm, I'm thinking through. One is really just more from a utility standpoint, just Peloton for that. Right. Um, so whether it's shooting, whether it's stick handling, whether it's mobility stuff or lunges or pull-ups, or. Whatever. Right. Just whatever you can do from home.
Like let's put some structure and some accountability and some fun around it and, and some progress. And how am I doing against others of my age group and ability level, and how am I doing against me? And maybe I can challenge my friends. Maybe, you know, maybe my coach slash dad is gonna see it and, you know, be up my butt about it if I, if I'm not doing it right, maybe my trainer, if I, if I go to a trainer.
Um, so that's kinda one lens. And then the other lens is, um, you know. Coaches and teams are focused on the coach and team, and yeah, they want the best for the players, but there's only so much coach to go around and [00:54:00] then dads are winging it, tr like, I am trying to figure everything out, but it's exhausting
Kevin McCoy: Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: and like there's people that are much better at it than me, so it's like, can I just outsource this?
Right. Um, and, and so, and, and that's less about just the at home stuff, but more just like putting, putting the kid. At the center of the development journey and building a platform to help them navigate the twists and turns along the way and, and layer in more stuff as they get older and are ready for it.
Like sports psychology, like nutrition, like, like video review, hockey, iq. And then it's like, I wonder what role AI could play and could it strip out a bunch of the costs and lower the price point to make it more accessible for the masses. Right. So something like that.
Kevin McCoy: Yeah. Yes.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Kevin McCoy: Yeah, I mean, we, we delivered a nutrition plan two years ago to the kids. It was in a, you know, in a spreadsheet on a Google sheet. They could all but it, there's, there's no delivery mechanism for any of this stuff. So it's like, it's there, it's a need. I think everybody would use it for sure. Like it's, I just, I've done all this stuff [00:55:00] manually, like leveraging as much technology as I can.
Right. Like stuff that's easily shareable. Um, and, you
Jason Jacobs: Yeah,
Kevin McCoy: a
Jason Jacobs: I mean, it, it is like lose it or Runkeeper of and I, and then, I don't know, is it, is it at home skills? Is it, is it just like, you know, is it just. Player development. Right. You know, what age, what ability level, like is it for everybody, right? Um, like I'm still sorting through all that, but like that's what I see is like, you got like the INS stats for like the people with the big bucks or whatever, and then it's like, what about everybody else?
Right? So yeah.
Kevin McCoy: and I mean, again, like, I mean like I just, I also just look at like, um, you know, hunter Bishop or the Shot doctor, and you're like, Hey, what if I can tell you I could distribute your stuff out to 10,000 people and you make 50 bucks? know, whatever. There's like, there's, there's a place where like, yes, upgrade and get the, the shooting experience and here's the library of how, how you go through it. [00:56:00] Um, it's, uh, and, and none of these guys have it. They're all just trying to build, they like, they're all just build, trying to build like an audience on Instagram, trying to get people to come in, know, like the, like come do my skills in person or come do the shooting thing. It's like.
Jason Jacobs: That, that's what I see. I, I see like incredibly fragmented with the in-person stuff. And then I see. PDFs digitally, right? Yeah. And it's like, it, it sure seems like there's, there's room to replicate a good chunk of that in person experience in a way that's not gonna be as good as in person, but it'll be a lot better than a PDF.
Right? And that, that's kind of the, that's the lane that I'm, but I to, to be fair, I've not done a deep dive into, you know, the Helios and the sport logic and the, and the Insta and the, you know, the, and, and then there's all these like niche. Apps. I've never heard of that claim to be doing it. Like I, you know, we've, we're just on the front end of exploring, so maybe, maybe I'll have a different viewpoint as I'm, [00:57:00] uh, as I'm a lot more steeped in it.
But it, it, if like, if there is a household name, who is it? Because you don't, no one, you know, I know a lot of serious hockey families and no one's using it. Or if, if there is a, such a thing.
Kevin McCoy: I, I think, I think
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Kevin McCoy: I think it's back to, I think a lot of these guys are selling to clubs and that's not the model.
Jason Jacobs: We're, I mean, direct to, fortunately for me, direct to consumer is all my experience and also just. What comes intuitive to me and what I enjoy more so like kids and families are, are, are definitely what I'm thinking about.
Kevin McCoy: And.
Jason Jacobs: And, and by the way, if kids and families, you nail it and then it's like, and the coaches are clamoring frat like, okay, great, that's a first world problem.
Like, let's figure out like, you know, how to incorporate coaches Indian experience in a way that's beneficial for them and beneficial for the kids and families. Great. But if you don't nail the kids and families first, you're nowhere.
Kevin McCoy: Yep. A
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Kevin McCoy: A hundred percent. I mean, I mean this whole, this is the whole thing is like, that's why it's killing. It kills me. So I'm glad. I'm glad you're working on it. 'cause there's a need and um. I think [00:58:00] the guys that are coaching and doing all this stuff are really good at what they're doing, but they're like, they, they just don't have, they need some help on dis on distribution then.
And I, you know, I do think, like you, you nail a consumer model and you get people access to this stuff, it'll, it'll take off 'cause people are clamoring for it.
Jason Jacobs: Hm.
Kevin McCoy: hockey players are clamoring for it.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. Well, I'm excited. I mean, I'm, again, I'm nowhere, but, uh, but it's, it's just a lot. I mean, I was spending so much time thinking about hockey as a, as a dad, and I've become quite a student of this player development journey just as a dad, um, because my son and I like are deep in it and wagging our tails every step of the way, and it's gonna end before I know it.
And I'm trying to savor every minute of it, but it's like, gosh, uh. I noticed these gaps as a dad, and then it's like, I wish this thing existed as a dad. And then it's like, well, wait a minute. Like the thing that I wish existed is like probably one of the only things I know how to build. Right. Um, so yeah.
Um, so yeah, we'll [00:59:00] see. But um, but I'll definitely keep you posted it, it sounds like I've got, uh, got a volunteer, uh, beta tester, um, over there when, when we're ready.
Kevin McCoy: Yeah, for sure, for sure. I mean, we, I mean, honestly, we have, um, we've got the SU United Hockey Club, which is really the kids in the Southeast, but then we have u, the US Express, which is an elite hockey program, which is for older kids. Um, in junior programs that are trying to get to the next level of juniors and, you know, we play world selects and we play chowder and pre-draft and we do all those, those exposure tournaments.
And we have hundreds of kids that play for us. And all of those kids are. You know, like, again, in a, in the summer looking for a program, that's why they're playing on these teams to develop and get exposed, you know, so like, and you know, just it's, it's just there, right? There's just an opportunity for it.
Jason Jacobs: That's another thing I'm thinking about is, is yeah, development and what you do in the shadows that matters and so, you know, why are you [01:00:00] busy flying all around when you can just like save all that money and logistics. And, and, uh, um, and just focus on development. That's one piece. But the other is, well wait a minute.
If you do it on a digital platform, like there's a record of it, and if there's a record of it and you choose to share it, right, it might be another way to get found. Uh, that's a lot more effective than like pulling some granny clip from live barn or flying all over the universe for these. Exposure tournaments and hoping that like you're, you know, like, uh, you know, someone sitting there with like a, um, like, you know, like, like a bachelor rose in the, in the stands.
Kevin McCoy: Yeah. Well this is, it is exciting, man. Hopefully you figure it out. We can figure it out.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, well thanks for coming on Kevin. Um, is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did or any parting words for listeners?
Kevin McCoy: Uh, no, I mean, I just, I I guess the parting words is if, if, if you've ever, you've got kids that are younger, like, look, it's, it's tough and there's a lot of noise and [01:01:00] stay focused on like, you know, on keeping your kid excited to play hockey. Like, like there's a lot of noise, like you gotta. on the ice more blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
They've gotta want to be on the ice and just make sure you're taking their temperature regularly. That's that's the key.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, I mean, I think that's not just scent, right? I mean, that's just like a, like parenting 1 0 1, and I, I can speak from personal experience as someone who was absolutely tortured from school and have convinced myself that I don't. I love learning, uh, when meanwhile it was just that school was packaged in the wrong way.
And if you actually put stuff in front of me that I wanna learn about, I'm, you know, I will attack in a sustained way over ridiculously long periods of time. So, um, and I, I think the same, you know, the same is true for, for, for anybody. It's like, help them figure out what they're passionate about and then get outta their way.
Kevin McCoy: A hundred
Jason Jacobs: Yeah.
Kevin McCoy: Yep.
Jason Jacobs: So,
Kevin McCoy: man. I
Jason Jacobs: well. But
Kevin McCoy: on.
Jason Jacobs: yeah, likewise. Thanks for doing it and uh, best of luck to you and to chase and to all the McCoys.
Kevin McCoy: right, thanks Jason. Appreciate [01:02:00] it.