In this interview, Alex Stone, CEO of CoachUp, discusses the company's mission to connect athletes with private coaches to help them reach new levels in sports and life. CoachUp offers a platform that provides thousands of private coaching sessions across the U.S. Stone details the journey of CoachUp, its evolution, and how it has adapted through challenges like COVID-19. The interview also explores the current state of youth sports, the commercialization of these activities, and the necessity of high-quality coaching. Stone shares his own background in sports, his time at Under Armour, and his experience with the military before joining CoachUp. Future plans for CoachUp include expanding physical training centers to provide athletes with comprehensive development in various sports.
Elevating Youth Sports: The Journey and Vision of CoachUp with CEO Alex Stone In this episode, the guest is Alex Stone, CEO of CoachUp, a service that connects athletes with private coaches aimed at changing kids' lives through sports. Alex discusses the origins of CoachUp, its growth, and its mission in the youth sports space. He shares insights into the evolution of youth sports, emphasizing the importance of one-on-one and small-group training, and the challenges and opportunities of running a sports-focused two-sided marketplace. Alex also dives into the strategic decision to open physical training centers, blending digital and physical spaces to enhance the athlete and coach experience. Additionally, he recounts his personal journey from being a Marine to working with Under Armour and eventually leading CoachUp. Alex reflects on the current youth sports landscape through the lens of both a business leader and a parent, highlighting the impact of sports on children's development and the crucial role of quality coaching.
00:00 Introduction to Alex Stone and CoachUp
00:31 Jason's Quest for a New Athlete Development Company
02:40 Alex Stone's Background and Journey
04:36 CoachUp's Evolution and COVID Challenges
13:29 Alex's Personal Connection to Youth Sports
14:43 The Changing Landscape of Youth Sports
17:43 Supporting Coaches and Athletes with Technology
24:43 The Challenges of Building a Marketplace
27:05 Flexible Business Structure for Long-Term Growth
28:04 The Logic Behind Opening a Physical Facility
30:22 Benefits of a Physical Location for Coaches and Clients
32:01 Balancing Coverage and Quality in Coaching
39:04 Remote Coaching vs. In-Person Training
41:17 Measuring Progress and Success in Youth Sports
45:19 Growth Strategies and Market Penetration
49:13 Future Plans and Key Priorities
50:45 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Jason Jacobs: Today, on the next next, our guest is Alex Stone, CEO of CoachUp. CoachUp is a service that connects athletes with private coaches. They believe that private coaching is the secret to reaching the next level in sports and in life. They have thousands of coaches across the country and hundreds of training sessions happening every day, and they're the nation's leading private coaching company.
They're dedicated to their mission, which is helping kids change the trajectory of their lives through sports. Now, this is super relevant to me. Of course. If you've listened to this show historically, you know that I'm on this quest to. Build my next company and I'm in the early stages of anchoring around building a new kind of athlete development company.
And part of that means steeping in the space and talking to people who are close to it from a wide range of perspectives. Uh, players, coaches, parents. Nutritionists, strength trainers, scouts, agents, [00:01:00] heads of leagues, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, Alex is certainly well placed given that he's working with private coaches every day and working with kids on the other side in a marketplace of sorts.
So it was fascinating to learn about. The journey of Coach Up Alex's journey to doing the work that he does and what his thoughts are around the state of youth sports, the state of player development, where the opportunities are from a capitalist standpoint, and also what's in the best interest of players and in families to set them up best in sports and in life.
Without further ado, Alex Stone, welcome to the show.
Alex Stone: Hey Jason. Thanks for having me.
Jason Jacobs: Thanks for coming and fortuitous timing because, uh, I just had, uh, Jordan, of course, the, founder of Coach Up on the show With that, I mean, that published earlier this week and we didn't talk much about Coach Up because of course, from an operating standpoint, he's, um. He's on new things, but um, but psyched to have you on and now [00:02:00] I'm kind of moving in the sports direction as he's moving, uh, away from it. So, um, really grateful for you making the time because I have a lot to learn from people like you that have been doing this for a lot longer than me.
Alex Stone: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, likewise. It's great to be on. Uh, you know, Jordan obviously the founder of Coach Up and now he's moved into, you know, his new ventures and he's been involved in sports forever, so, um. Glad you got his perspective on a lot of things and on, on his new venture. And then, you know, you've been in the space a long time.
I wouldn't, I wouldn't, uh, sell yourself short. So, so, uh, always good to, to chat with like-minded entrepreneurs and especially in the youth sports space and, and, um, yeah, happy to go through it.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, sweet. Well, well for starters, uh, maybe just give, uh, give the overview of, of Coach Up. 'cause I also know it, uh, I mean it, it, it seems like it's evolved quite a bit since it, it's founding days. So I guess, where'd it start and what are you guys up to now?
Alex Stone: Yeah, so Jor, uh, Jordan Flegel founded the company back in 2012. And really, you [00:03:00] know, back then I think the catalyst was, um, he was doing private sessions with a coach and there was no streamlined way to find a private coach or a one-on-one. You know, a skills coach, if you will. Um, and then even if you did, it was really challenge, you know, there wasn't as many software solutions from a payment processing, uh, from making sure that you had insurance and things like that for coaches.
So I think his, his goal was to give coaches the tools, um, to allow them to do what they do best and as coach and not spend time trying to like run the back office of a business. And then also where can you have a streamlined place where parents can come on the platform and, and find a trusted. Verified coach who can, um, fulfill whatever their needs are for either themselves or for their child, for their children who are trying to reach another level.
Right. Um, so yeah, so we're a two-sided platform coaches. On one side, we, we give 'em the software tools to run their business effectively and focus on coaching. Uh, and then we also help, uh, athletes and parents find coaches [00:04:00] who are a good fit for their son or daughter or for themselves with whatever their respective sport is.
And then they work together with that coach. Um. Based on their goals, right? To, to help them go out and achieve whatever it is that they're trying to achieve. Sometimes that's making the varsity team, sometimes that's just a new, starting a new sport. Uh, sometimes it's a tuneup, you know, before tryouts and things like that.
Other times it's a consistent, you know. Extra skills. As you know, the world has gone to tournament teams and travel ball and all those types of things. So where can you get those extra reps and make sure you're working with a coach? Uh, we wanna give you a place to, to find that. Um, we've definitely evolved.
I took over the business in 2020, just before 2020, so COVID fun time trying to get people. Uh, to do training sessions together when COVID told everyone to stay in their house. Um, but we came outta that on the other side and, and pretty excited the direction we're going. We just saw, opened our first training center up here or down here in Wilburn.
And the goal here is to have a very, like multifunctional training [00:05:00] space. We have basketball court, we have turf space, we have a baseball tunnel. We can service probably 10 or 15 different sports in here. And the goal is to give coaches not only the platform and the software to run their business, but can we give 'em a home base where they can conduct their sessions as well.
If it's, if it's bad weather, if it's winter, if it's just as simple from a scheduling and, uh. Time management standpoint to be here. We had a lacrosse coach in here yesterday for seven straight hours, and he just stacks his sessions one by one by one, so he knows he's in the same place and he's, you know, not driving, driving all over creation to do those sessions.
So we see a world where we can.
Jason Jacobs: Wait. One funny story about that and
then I, and then I'll, I'll let you get back into it, but I went and searched on your. Uh, platform this morning. Just I was curious what, what kind of coaches were on there and stuff, and, and like the, one of the gold lacrosse coaches who looks like a really accomp, he's coached a number of different levels and high schools and stuff like that, and super well rated and everything as a kid I played against in lacrosse growing up.
So, um, just a, just a small world moment. But, but
anyways,
Alex Stone: Yeah, you'd [00:06:00] be surprised who you can find on there. There's coaches. We have some interesting coaches all over the world are all over the country, which is, which is interesting. We've had, sometimes we see the applications come through of, you know, former professional athletes and we wonder is this real or what are we trying to, trying to coach?
Or how are we using the platform? So, um, yeah, but that's, that's the future for us, right? Is can we marry physical locations and, and including strength and conditioning at some point. We're working on some of that as well. Where you can come under one roof, you can get your skill work done, you can get your strength, speed, and agility work done, true sports performance.
And then also, can we leverage our platform to help coaches run their, their businesses more effectively and efficiently, long term, whether on the coach up, um, marketplace platform, or also a more enterprise wide label solution moving forward.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, well thanks for that overview. I've got a number of questions about the business, but before we. Get into that. Um, what's been your journey with sports and, and was it sports that led you to coach up or marketplaces that led you to coach up? Like how, how'd you, uh, how'd [00:07:00] you come into working in the business of sports?
Alex Stone: Yeah, definitely not marketplaces. This, this will be my, this will be my first and hopefully, um, last one, you know,
Jason Jacobs: You, you grew up saying like, I want be a marketplace entrepreneur when I grow up.
Alex Stone: Yeah, I had to, I think I had to Google what a marketplace was when I first, uh, joined the business. But yeah, so I, you know, I was an athlete my entire life and, and played high school ball.
Um, and then I enlisted in the Marine Corps when I was a junior in high school. So I always knew that that's what I wanted to do. My grandfather's World War II Marine, I always just was interested in the military and the Marine Corps specifically. And, um, so I enlisted as a junior to kind of avoid a lot of those.
Kind of recruiting conversations and next level conversations for football or hockey, whatever it might be. Um, and you know, so I served four years, did a couple deployments overseas, and when I came back I tried to think about, you know, hey, what is it I want to do? And it was actually an old football coach who offered me a job.
Um, I called it a job. I worked for free, I'm pretty sure. But he was kind of mentoring me in, in, uh, [00:08:00] overseas manufacturing. Which led me to working with brands like Dick's Sporting Goods and Under Armour, et cetera, you know, and I was very fortunate at one point Under Armour offered me a full-time job to come down and work on their team sports and accessories business, which was, which was a, you know, a dream come true for me.
Jason Jacobs: In, in, in Baltimore.
Alex Stone: in Baltimore, yeah. So I was back from the military, maybe a year and a half, and I, you know, packed my suitcase and I said, of course I'm coming. I moved down to Baltimore. I'd never been there before. And, uh, it was a great opportunity. The brand was still very much up and coming at the time. And, um.
Yeah, I was there working on team sports, accessories, everything from football, gloves, soccer, shin guards to then we worked on the license business, which was inflatables and we dabbled in some hockey stuff as well. Um, so it was a lot of fun. I did five years, just I, a little over five years there, and I had this urge to really start working with people who were similar to me, which I didn't know at the time that.
I was under the assumption when I joined the military that I gave up my NCAA [00:09:00] eligibility, that I just missed that window. Right? And the reality is, is when you go in the military, it's actually put on hold. And when you come out as a 21, 22, or however old you are, right, you still have all your NCAA NCAA eligibility.
On top of that, you also have your military educational benefits, which is essentially, you know, more or less a full scholarship to most schools that you'd want to go to. So I said, man, why didn't I know about this? You know, when I was coming out, it was an interesting time, uh, in 2008 when I got out and there was a recession and not a lot of jobs and different things I should have, I could have went back and tried to play.
Um, so I basically built, I left Under Armour to build this company, athletes of Valor, which really the catalyst there was how do we build all the tools and resources that are available for, um, high school athletes? How do we build those same tools for active duty military members who might be interested in transitioning outta service?
To go play college sport. So the, the hook there in my, like, my view was one, not only can we help these schools provide an opportunity for military [00:10:00] members in a more meaningful way outside of, you know, a veteran's lounge with a couch and a ping pong table in a corner somewhere. Like how can we actually help them transition?
And then from a transition perspective, like where do you find a brotherhood or a sisterhood and mentors with coaches and make sure that. People are looking out for another. So when you do transition, you're reintegrating into the civilian world, as we'd call it. Um, there's no better place to do that than a team in a locker room, right where you have.
You know, other leadership, you have coaches, you have staff there to help support you through that journey. And the graduation rate for student athletes, it is significantly higher than it is for regular students or military veterans as well. So it was a really cool, um, business platform. We built a really cool platform.
I was very fortunate to be sponsored by Under Armour, Gatorade. We started going all over the country to these military installations. We were running. Full on NFL combines soccer combines, basketball combines. It was a blast. We had a software platform to support all of it above. [00:11:00] The challenge we had was to really become a scalable business, we had to focus more on enrollment management.
And that's really where the, the key was from a business standpoint. And, and you know, I don't know if you've ever sold into higher education before, but it really wasn't my, my, my interest.
Jason Jacobs: I, I haven't, but I can only imagine. I mean, as someone who went through higher education
as a student, I, I got a,
a, a peek behind the curtain of how they work.
Alex Stone: yeah. So I said, I was like, no, thank you. That's not really what we want to do. And then this opportunity with, you know, coach Up was going through this pivotal moment of their kind of, um, of their company life, if you will. And trying to work on different things, whether it was recruiting or, or camps, clinics, some different things at the time, back in, this was in 2018, um, and there was some synergies there.
We said, Hey, originally it was like, Hey, should we license the Athletes of Valor software? And Jordan was involved in [00:12:00] the Athletes of Valor creation as well. He was an initial investor and on the board with me. And, um, there was a lot of synergies to say, Hey, like, it doesn't really work from a licensing standpoint or software standpoint.
Like, why don't we just. Merge these two businesses together and I can help in some capacity in some of these new verticals you guys are focusing on. So there was another CEO at the time, and, um. You know, we, we integrated the businesses. We focused, I still focused on athletes of Val supporting, and then through COVID o really, we just made a lot of changes.
Um, it was really hard time to continually help college athletics because college athletics were more or less shut down. Military bases were shut down during COD from an, from an outside access standpoint. So we really put that business, um. To the side and just couldn't really support it, you know, moving forward from there and coach up.
You know, we came out on the other end and that's how I got to coach up and then I took over as CEO shortly thereafter. And, um, that's my long-winded way of how I got here and how I got into sports and um, you know, sports have always been a [00:13:00] resource for me, so I think it's something that I'm very fortunate to be able to build a career around.
And now, you know, since 2008, you know, built a career. In sports in some capacity, whether it's manufacturing products or services, and now, you know, supporting coaches and athletes all over the country in multiple sports. Um, helping something that I think that I believe in and has helped not only, you know, as a, in my childhood and youth, but all the way through from a career perspective.
Jason Jacobs: Uh huh And, and remind. Me again, Alex. I know when we spoke, um, a few weeks ago when we were scheduling the pod, you mentioned that you have kids and that they're just now getting into, uh, youth sports. How old are your kids?
Alex Stone: So I have a 7-year-old, a 5-year-old, and a 2-year-old. And uh, so my 7-year-old is, he's full go in everything. Um, so yeah, we're juggling hockey, soccer, baseball. You know, flag football when we can fit it in. Um, my [00:14:00] daughter does soccer and softball as well as, you know, dance, which I've never, you know, I had two brothers growing up, so I was never exposed to the dance world.
But now, now with my first daughter, it's, um, it's a, that's an aggressive one itself. And then my 2-year-old, he gets dragged around to it all. So he's, he's in the mix for everything.
Jason Jacobs: Um, and, uh, so it, it seems like you're starting to get a taste of the current youth sports landscape. I mean, it's changed a lot since we were growing up. Um, in, in what ways do you feel like it's. Different. And, um, and what's your assessment of, of the state, of the state in youth sports? What's good about it and, and maybe what, what some of the challenges are?
Alex Stone: Yeah, I think, um, from a, how it's different from when we grew up is, you know, obviously there was, it was much more seasonal when we grew up. You kind of played the sport of the season. Typically there was one or two and you kind of had to choose. It wasn't, you weren't playing multiple [00:15:00] sports in the same season.
Um, outside of a few outlier cases. Um. It was much more contained, I think, to town sports. There was, you know, there was a few options for travel ball or clubs, if you will, but for the most part it was contained to, you know, to to town sports and you played with your friends and typically the friends that you went to school with.
And that's how they kind of broke it up. Um, I think that's a lot different today. I think there's a lot more options out there from a team perspective and development standpoint. Um, even, even. Learn to skate. Some of that stuff we don't do through Our Town program because there's this other program that skates outta the same rink and they just have a strong organization in this, um, specifically and learn to skate for those 2, 3, 4 year olds who are just starting.
Um, so I think it's, it's a little bit different in that sense. I think also schedule wise is a little bit more intense now, uh, than it was back when we were kids, which. You know, I think is, is good and bad. I mean, it's, [00:16:00] as a parent, it's nice to have things on the schedule to keep your kids busy so they're not killing each other at the house.
But at the same time, you know, I think you miss a lot of that neighborhood play. You don't see it as much anymore. You don't see stickball games happening, wiffle ball games happening. You don't see as much full blocking of the streets. You know, street hockey games of everybody in the neighborhood pulling nets out in the middle of the street and playing.
Um. So as far as like a state, I think, you know, obviously there's a lot of talk about the commercialization of youth sports and the way that that's going. And I agree with it to an extent. I think there's good and bad aspects to it. I think having more options to find a right fit for your son or daughter is a, is naturally a good thing.
Um, but I do think that, you know, there's also a lot of that keeping up with the Joneses or, or, um. You know, choosing an outside program outside of your talent program or trying to play year round to develop those skills when playing more games [00:17:00] doesn't necessarily equate to getting better, um, depending on your sport.
So that's where I think we just have to be careful and, you know, we run a business around, we believe heavily in, in one-on-one and small group training to actually improve from an athletic standpoint. And that's both from a skill development standpoint. But also from a, you know, human performance standpoint of strength, conditioning, speed, agility.
Um, so I think it's a good thing that there's more resources than ever to, to achieve whatever goals that you have. I think the hard, the, the bad thing is, uh, it spreads a lot of things very thin. Um, and it makes it hard to navigate for someone who maybe doesn't have as much experience in the, in the space.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, and from a skills coach's standpoint, um, how is the landscape evolving in terms of, um, uh. The tools that are available to them and what path, um, they should [00:18:00] pursue if they're thinking about getting into the business. And like you said, their core competency is being on the ice or being on the field or being in the cage or, or whatever.
And then all the crap that goes along with that, like maybe is a time suck and doesn't necessarily give them energy. So how's that landscape evolving? And then. Um, how are you evolving and, and what are the implications of each of those on each
other? It's not, not a, it's just kind of a weirdly worded
question, but I hope
Alex Stone: No, I
Jason Jacobs: I'm,
Alex Stone: though, because I mean, I think about it all the time. I mean, if you think about in 2012, right, like Venmo didn't exist. Um. I don't even think, did Instagram exist? I don't think so. Back in 2012. So that's when Coach Up started. Right? So coaches were, their, their biggest challenge was like, Hey, how do I even process a payment?
I don't know if Stripe was even available back in 2012. Right? So they're, you know, you're trying to figure out how do you even process a payment? How do you, um. There was no such thing and not as much of like personal branding right [00:19:00] in, in social media and influencing and things like that. So it's definitely evolved since then, you know, since my time.
I think. I see that's more so right, like the younger coaches who are former collegiate athletes, maybe just graduating or a couple years out of college who are starting to do skills coaching or other coaching, you know, they're much more technologically advanced, right? So for them to go spin up a, and I think the tools out there, you can get a Squarespace page for.
You know, whatever it is, 10 or $20 a month, no code type things where you just put in your information and they make it really easy for you to start a business. Right? It's getting more and more streamlined in that sense. So I wouldn't say we have to compete with that, but some coaches are really good at, at marketing themselves and building their own personal brand.
And quite frankly, just through Instagram, uh, people can find you by following you and then you can typically accept Venmo payments and. Um, do your private sessions that way, or, or small groups. We've seen a lot of coaches be successful doing that. Um, I think [00:20:00] there's, that only goes so far before you know it, you know, you're.
You're trying to coach, you know, so many hours a week, but at the same time, you're probably sitting at your kitchen table, like, how do I do these from a tax perspective? How do I manage, you know, actually run this like a business with a p and l and how much I'm spending and how do I put together these programmings to make sure that the product is, is worth the dollars that we're charging out there?
So, um, how we've evolved, right? Is we, I think we're really strong right now at getting people started. So coaches started, so, Hey, you want to come on our platform? We have all the tools and resources available to you. We have a lot, we do a lot of the marketing. So we have customer acquisition, we have clients all the time reaching out.
Um, you know, and I think on average on our platform, a coach will get eight to 10 leads a year. Um, now they're not always a fit and they don't always convert, but that's on the coach. Really, once we make that connection, it's on the coach to really build that relationship with the, with the athlete or the parent, whoever they're working with.
Um. So I see that as a great starting point for someone who [00:21:00] wants to decide, Hey, do I really want to get into, we call it. I hate the word private coaching 'cause I don't think it's really the best term for it, but like become a skills coach or a small group coach. Right. And then what I see is changing and where we're trying to move to as well is there's some coaches, I don't wanna say they outgrow that, but they're very adamant on having their own brand.
So I. Jason Jacobs hockey training, right? They don't want to just be a participant on the Coach Up platform. They really wanna build a company around this. So we, we haven't, we've launched a pro product, which allows the coaches to have their own website. Again, no code, low code, couple templates, you fill it in, but you manage it.
We're, we're taking that to the next level where we're gonna have a far more robust, um, platform for coaches who want to run their own business and they really wanna manage their clients that way. We want to give you all the tools that we have. But when, when it comes from a customer management standpoint, it really moves over to you and those are your customers, your business.
We're just powering that [00:22:00] business through all the coach up software and helping you navigate what that looks like. And then also facilities, right? Like the biggest question if you're a skills coach is you say, Hey, just. This is great. I just got my first basketball kid who wants to work with me. Where do I, you know, where, where do I get a basketball hoop and where can we do this?
And sometimes, you know, a public park works, um, you know, but how do you know if it's gonna rain that day or a windy day? So we want to make sure we wanna go where coaches are and where athletes are, and that's in the communities involved with the coaching in the local community level. Um, and we want to be there to support them in a very, a la carte way so a coach can come in.
If they're a CoachUp coach and those and the athlete is on CoachUp, they can use our, use our facility to conduct those sessions and make it really streamlined and simple for them. So I think it's definitely evolved where tech technology has evolved. The younger coaches are, have grown up with technology, so it's much more streamlined for them to just go download an app and figure out how to get things going.
But the core challenge has [00:23:00] never changed and that's how do I get. Customers, right? How do I get clients? So whether they're building their own personal brand on social media or whether they use a platform like us to help them acquire customers or they're involved in the local community, those are all the kind of key pieces that, um, ultimately remain the same to grow your business.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, so as we're talking here, I mean, I thought it was a two-sided marketplace, but it sounds more like a three-sided marketplace,
right?
Alex Stone: we just keep adding sides, so.
Jason Jacobs: yeah. 'cause it's, it's the, I mean, it's the kid and family, it's the. Coach and then it's the facility.
Right.
Um, and is it on the coach today to, and i, I know you're, you know, you built your own facility and, and so you, you have a home there, but, um, but it, let's say the coach is in a different
part of the world.
Um, is it, uh, is it on the coach to figure out where to host the, the, the session or do you help with the facilities as well?
Alex Stone: We do. So each coach [00:24:00] typically has three or four locations, like on their platform or on their profile that they either have a relationship with or, uh, know that are available. Sometimes they book space themselves, like if you're a baseball coach, they might be at a baseball facility where they know they have a certain amount of tunnel access.
Um, it's really, it really varies depending on each coach. So we, I think there's our facilities, we do have some partnerships with other facilities. If. If we need to reach out, we also offer, um, those coaches, if they are training at another facility, we offer like additionally insured. So make sure they have insurance, even though if they're training somewhere else.
So those are some key things, but that, that's always one of the biggest challenges, right, is like, where does that session take place? Um, so we're trying to support that in a deeper way.
Jason Jacobs: And I, I've never built a marketplace and I'm certainly not steeped in the best practices for how to do it. I, I hear these stories about how they're so hard and they take so much capital, and once you get 'em really going. They can be really lucrative, but the failure rate is [00:25:00] high. First of all, did I get that right from your experience and then like what's your assessment just in terms of how to build a marketplace and what the challenges are and, and where you guys are in that journey.
Alex Stone: Yeah. I think it's a pretty fair, um, assessment. It's, it is challenging. Like I think we joked about, I don't know if I would ever. Start my own mar marketplace. Um, you know, I, I think the way we're evolving and being more involved in outside of just the two sided marketplace and having additional verticals and being more ingrained in the communities is, is a key strategy for us because I do think there can be, I.
Uh, a challenge with a marketplace in itself. I mean, we're a little bit unique just in a sense. And the amount of coming outta COVID, the amount of marketplaces I saw pop up for things like NAL or mentoring and, you know, so many of them reached out and wanted to partner or wanted to talk about it. And I think within a year or two, I had all the same ones reached out and said, Hey, like, we're outta [00:26:00] money, you know, do you guys want to acquire us?
Do you wanna work together? And I, you know, it's, I feel for that situation because. When you're building two sides, customer acquisition, there's a cost to that and how much cost, right? And then if you're only making a small percentage of the transaction, you know, what does that payback period look like?
Um, so they are very challenging. I think we've been, I. Very fortunate. You know, my goal when I took over the company was how do we get to long-term sustainability and profitability? And we were able to do that very quickly, and that allows us to do more about what's right for the customers and what's right for the coaches and athletes, more so than.
You know, typical marketplace have to get to an extreme level of scale because their margins are so thin to make to, to get to a viable business. Um, and the good news with us is that the, our software is also so robust, right? And our funnel over the years that. If we 10 x tomorrow from, from a top of funnel, like nothing would really [00:27:00] change.
You know, we don't, we don't have 30 engineers, right? And we don't need to take on an additional 20 and have huge overhead. We're a very, uh, distributed company. We're a very small internal team. We're very, um, flexible in that sense. And that was very, I was very adamant on when I did take over the business that that's how we have to structure this for long-term growth.
And we need to be able to go to where our customers are. We need to be much more flexible and agile, and we need to think outside of just the marketplace because I think it's really hard for a, a youth sport specific marketplace to scale to a level of where traditional marketplaces have had success. If you look at the, you know, the care dot coms and some of those other, um, big ones, the volume has to be so high, uh, for it to be a viable business.
And I just didn't think that we wanted to chase that. So we actually retracted a little bit. Got the core unit economics where we want 'em to be and focused, um, really where we can add the most value to both sides of the platform and do so profitably. And we [00:28:00] just decided to do more of that than chase some of the other things.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, what was the logic behind opening the physical facility and then how does that. Change the experience for the um, coach. And same question for the
kid.
Alex Stone: Yeah, I mean it was always, so we've talked for years, like what if we had a physical space? Right? Um. You know, in the, and the models out there are a lot different, right? We didn't, we wanted to, could we do it different and could we have a point of view around it, right? Where it's not just this warehouse and we just rent it per the hour.
Like, that's not what we do and, and how we operate. Um, every coach and client who comes through here is a coach up customer has to be in order to, to use our space. And it's very affordable compared to, you know, other tunnel rentals or turf rentals, court rentals, whatever it might be. So the catalyst was, um.
Again, cost of acquisition for customers [00:29:00] digitally has gotten so high compared to, you know, in 2012 when running Facebook and Instagram ads and Google Ads was a lot cheaper. So, and I think that that's gonna continually trend even higher also with privacy changes, right? It's harder to target the right people who might need your services, right?
Um, so my theory was if we can, instead of investing those additional dollars, that typical marketplace is really. Do in certain markets. What if we put a, what does a specific market look like if we actually put a physical facility and ingrain ourselves in the community? What does that look like from a growth perspective?
Not only growth, but can we change the core KPIs of a customer? How long do they stay longer? Do they have a better experience versus, um, just someone they found on this platform? And then is there, there's. There's no face to the name of CoachUp, right? And I think that was a big part of it. Can we put a face to the name, to our brand that we're more than just a platform that connects the dots and, you know, charges a fee to do that.
Um, so [00:30:00] that was the catalyst. It's worked out. Uh, for Woburn, specifically in Massachusetts. Massachusetts is gonna be probably our second largest state in the country, which is surprising when you could fit, I don't know how many. Things of Massachusetts and Texas or California or something along those lines.
And we've seen significant growth, uh, in a positive direction here just by having a physical location. So I think it's proving to be, we're solving a problem where a lot of coaches are always like, Hey, where's the session happen? From the coach side, it's been great for them, especially in the winter, right?
A lot of coaches, soccer coaches in the winter. Their skill business went to zero because they didn't have space to do sessions. Now they have a year-round business. They have dedicated hours here and they know that they can bring their clients here and do that. So it consolidates them. So they don't, we eliminate the back and forth texting or messaging on our platform.
Say, Hey, where can we do this? What time? It's very simple. Also for customers, especially new customers, right? They know they're coming to a credible facility on day one verse, Hey, [00:31:00] I'm gonna go meet this new coach at the, uh, you know, the middle school gym. You know, we've never met 'em. We don't know where to go.
It's very simple saying, Hey, I know I can be a coach up. In Wilburn on seven o'clock on Tuesday nights, and they just book that and they schedule it and they know that we're here. So we, I think it's really simplified, one of the main logistical challenges that we have with coaches and clients, uh, but also as given coaches a very, um, we have basketballs here, we have cones, we have all the training aids here.
So instead of logging all this stuff around in their car. They walk in 10 minutes before their session. They have everything they need to conduct their session. It's a clean facility, heavily branded, and, um, they're really proud of running their business out of here. So I think those, those key things are now reflected in the unit economics, in the core business within this 30 mile, or sorry, 30 minute radius of wilburn.
And then how can we replicate that in other areas where we have, um, a condensed population of coaches and clients who are already training and using our platform.[00:32:00]
Jason Jacobs: It, it seems like there's a, a tension between, um, coverage and quality in the sense that the more closed the system and the more control you have around consistency, um, the better the experience for the customer, but the more open it is. The more coverage there is and the more types of use cases you can support.
Um, what is the coach up philosophy when it comes to managing that tension and, and how has that evolved or how will it evolve looking forwards, if at all?
Alex Stone: So can you clarify a question like, like the openness of it?
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, so for example, um, uh. I mean, the extreme is you have one instructor for each skill,
Right,
Um, but you know, they're awesome. Right? Um, uh, and, um, and then the other extreme [00:33:00] is it's open to any coach that wants to come and all you do is sign up and the more the better, because the more we
have, the more coverage we have, right?
Um, but then there's no quality
controls. right.
And so, um, so how, how, like, we, like where do you, um. Where do you draw the line between those, those,
two things? Between quality and quantity?
Yeah.
Alex Stone: been, that's always been, that's a good question. It's always been. It is been a conversation, I think from day one. I think originally it was free to join for coaches and there was some, you know, some marketplaces go that route. They just let every coach on, there's some other sports marketplace.
They don't vet them. They don't, basically they're saying, we're gonna connect you and it's on you to be a good coach, and if people rebook you, great. And if not, then um. You know, it's more on you than on the brand. I think for us, we, we probably fall a little bit in the middle. There's definitely a minimum criteria to become a coach on our platform.
I would say we hold pretty strong on that, that you have to have a certain level of experience, whether that's playing or coaching. [00:34:00] Um, 'cause I do think that we as a brand, people see us from a quality standpoint. There's really strong coaches and we're confident to know, like if you're approved through our application process, that you reach that.
That level of, of, uh, experience that that a, that a as a dad or as a parent or as an athlete would be content with paying, you know, for extra training. Right. Um, but there's certainly, we, we did a, I wouldn't say a retraction couple years ago, but we've always played with that application process and the criteria to see, you know, naturally there's a belief in marketplaces.
If you have more coaches, you know, there's generally gonna be more clients. But we also said, well. If we have less coaches, but we have higher quality coaches who are willing to take more clients and build their business, then I think that shouldn't we help them grow their business more than just kind of diluting that and getting, you know, each coach gets one client a year or [00:35:00] whatever.
It's, um, so I think we've done a good job of balancing and, and landing in a little bit of a sweet spot of active. Coaches who fit the right profile to make sure that they're still getting enough clients, but can also withstand, uh, some growth and some retraction themselves where we're not diluting. You know, I would hate for a customer, because you know how it is with customer reviews, it's always co, it's always like, Hey, you know, you see 'em in, you try not to go down on post or things like that.
But even on our ads, right, they're say, Hey, I looked in the middle of nowhere Wisconsin, and we couldn't find a. You know, a football coach and it's like, well there's, you know, 14 people in your town and you know, the nearest thing is, you know, football field is miles away. So yeah, we don't have coaches out there, but, um, I think where you can find that density and population density, we have really strong coaches.
We make sure that everyone has a great experience with those coaches. In the, the good thing about the marketplace is our review system and the behavior on the platform kind of, um. [00:36:00] Self-selects who becomes a top coach and who, who doesn't. Right? If you, if you have good reviews, if you're responding to messages, you know, if two clients reach out to you and you never respond, you fall out of those search results, right?
So they, so the client has a good experience with a coach. So there's a lot of things you can manipulate from the rules right from the beginning. And coaches are aware of these of how to, their rankings and things of that nature, um, to make sure that the, the better coaches are rising to the top and the ones who, um, aren't doing so well.
Kind of start to fizzle out.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, and in terms of the two sides, or I guess three sides of the marketplace, where are you short? Like is there, is there, you know, is it, is it supply is strong and demand is weak, or demand is strong, or supply is weak? Does it depend on the region? Um, uh, like what's the, uh. What's the trickiest part about the marketplace in its current
form and, and, yeah.
Alex Stone: I would say that like there's a lot of different ways to slice [00:37:00] marketplace growth. Some people go city by city, you know, area by area. Um, you can go by search volume, right? If you get search volume in a certain area, then do you go find a coach? It's very like manual. Um, I don't know if we necessarily subscribe to that.
We, we kind of focus on where we're strong and in those areas and we know, you know, for example, uh, he, hopefully he'll listen to this. Our lovely founder Jordan, who ran the Techstars, um. Sports accelerator out in Indianapolis. He used to always kind of check the search results when he was living out there doing the, doing the accelerator say, Hey, I only see one basketball coach.
Right. And we, so we did, we've run a lot of tests of how do we go get three or four basketball coaches, how do we turn, you know, turn on ads and marketing and other things and what does that look like? And then also what's the payback period for starting to build those, those markets. And, um, it's hard with a marketplace given the, the, the margin and the unit economics to.
Make those make sense if you don't have a lot of capital for that initial push to build the [00:38:00] space. Um, but so we, we look at more, there's never a shortage, I guess you could say, but it's finding balance, especially in key markets. Do we have the right amount of good coaches based on the right amount of search volume and clients?
Right. And then also where we have a strong base of coaches. We know, we feel comfortable doing more customer acquisition in those areas because those coaches are gonna service that business at a very high level and, and they're happy with that. Their businesses are growing, customers are happy with that.
They're finding great coaches versus we've kind of, I wouldn't say shied away from new markets, but we've, I. We've put less emphasis on, you know, if we can't service the one, you know, volleyball customer in middle of Tennessee, that we just don't have a volleyball coach, we don't have the resources. Maybe they did, you know, this business had 10 years ago right after first raising some capital to have, you know, 20 customer service people trying to reach out and like physically connect those dots.
Um, because we need to [00:39:00] focus on where, where we can win.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, what are your thoughts on remote? Coaching generally. And then what are your thoughts on it with a coach up hat on?
Alex Stone: Uh, generally remote. I think it depends on your sport. Uh, I think you know, something like running, right? If you have a great runner, you know, run coach who's a highly accomplished coach in their, you know. Located somewhere else and they're helping you put together a program. I think that that's, I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
I think that it also depends on your age. I think if you're a little bit older and, uh, more advanced in your athletic career, if you have a remote coach who's putting together programming, strength and conditioning, whatever, and you're gonna do the work, I don't necessarily think it's a, a bad thing. Um, but I also don't think you can ever replace in-person one-on-one small group coaching.
Um. And I definitely don't believe [00:40:00] in like the prerecorded like, or, you know, purchase a plan type thing. Right. Um, I don't, I think everything should be customized to your specific needs and your specific desired outcomes so that you can go and achieve that. Uh, with the CoachUp hat on, like, I'll I double down on that, right?
Like we. We saw a lot of people go to remote training during COD. We, we tried to do the same for, for like two or three weeks, and I'm like, Hey, this isn't, this isn't who we are. And like, at the end of the day, like, let's just hold true to what we, what we do. And we, we don't do a lot of remote training. We, what we see, I mean everything that we do is in person, one-on-one or small group.
Jason Jacobs: Mm-hmm.
Alex Stone: We do, each coach has some remote components to that where you have an existing customer and maybe they can do a video re review or do a FaceTime call to touch in after a game or whatever it might be. But for the most part, you have a relationship and there's a social aspect to that as well, uh, that I think is [00:41:00] really important.
So, um, I'm not a huge believer in remote training outside of, you know, key sports. Um, you know, again, such as running or strengthening, conditioning, something along those lines. Uh, I very much believe in in in-person coaching.
Jason Jacobs: And a similar question as it relates to just measurement and progress from a player standpoint. Any thoughts in terms of, um, continuity over time with these coaches and building out some of those, um. for someone to measure how they're doing and see how they're progressing in their development journey.
'cause I can speak today, like, you know, I've taken my kids to a bunch of different, um, in-person skills and they're great. Um, but there's no measurement in progress. And so largely the measurement, I mean, you can look at the score sheet as
a measurement in progress, right? But, but, but, but what about in terms of the, the skills that you're actually trying to work on?
Like, do you think that matters? For kids and [00:42:00] generally, and then is that something that Coach Up would ever tackle in some way?
Alex Stone: Yeah, we, we get approached a lot or we've, we've worked with a lot of other, you know, technologies in the past from a, you know, from a measurement standpoint, I think it's hard to measure, right? 'cause I think it's, it's, um. I think you have to determine whether you're a parent or athlete, like what are you trying to measure, right?
Um, and then how do you do that and what does that actually mean? So I think, you know, if you look at golf, right, and you can, you know, get in a TrackMan and videotape and have a full video analysis and look at your scorecard and things like that, that's, that's one thing. Um. You know, I think in some of the more core sports, whether it's basketball, baseball, hockey, football, whatever it might be, um, you know, I think you, I think everyone has a different opinion of what success is of working with a coach and, and measuring your level of success as an athlete.
Right? Like, and I'll use an example [00:43:00] of, um, maybe it's a, a kid who was on the JV basketball team for two years and he worked with a coach and he is on the varsity team and. He's socially happier. Does that show up on the stat sheet? Maybe not. But obviously his skills approved to some level, whether that's from intensity or playing defense or whatever.
And as a parent you might look at that and say, Hey, you know what? Like, you know, those 10 or 15 sessions or that year or two was very meaningful. I don't know how you could measure that, um, beyond the outcome to an extent. Or it could be the same kid who's on the JV team who. Maybe he scored an extra couple points, but he's generally happier 'cause he's playing a little bit better and he's feeling more confident after working with his coach.
I mean, that's a me, that's not a measurable outcome, but I think as a parent, you know, it is in some aspect. Um, and then there's the more, you know, granular stuff, of course you can, if you're football player and you're, you know, training for a combine and you want to measure your four yard dash and your vertical and your shuttle time and [00:44:00] things like that, you know, three cone drill type stuff, like yeah, that stuff matters and is measurable.
I don't think that that's. I don't want, I wouldn't say it's not as important to what we do, but I think that's the, um, there's a lot of opportunities out in different places to do that. I see us and coach up specifically on those maybe non-tangible measurements. Right. Hey, could I, did I improve?
Especially, 'cause our, our demographic's obviously a little bit younger, right? We're that eight to 15-year-old, so a little bit early high school, mid high school, and then obviously they go off to college whatnot. Um. So I, you know, did that 9-year-old kid who wanted to try lacrosse for the first time and has never played, always played baseball and got a few sessions, did he, you know, make the team and actually, you know, instead of running around with, you know, not understanding what's going on did by, by year two after working with a coach and then being part of their team practices, they start to really develop, make the team and be a core member of that team.
Like, you know, that's a great outcome. [00:45:00] Um. So, yeah, it's a, again, a long-winded way of saying, I think it's hard to measure. I think you have to determine what you're trying to achieve. And then I don't know how measurable some of those things are beyond some of the more granular metrics, um, for certain sports.
You know, your run times or shuttle times and things like that.
Jason Jacobs: It, it would strike me that if you're entering a new market, you might have to do a lot of paid acquisition and brand building, but at a certain point, if you get enough density, that word of mouth might carry the day or, or at least start playing a more. Meaningful role. Um, what have you found in your experience in terms of, um, uh, timing, in terms of, uh, or kind of state of penetration as it relates to user acquisition, and how do you think about balancing expansion into new markets with penetration in existing markets?
When you look at the future of CoachUp.
Alex Stone: Yeah, I think, I [00:46:00] think I understand. I don't use some big words in there. It's above my.
Jason Jacobs: Sorry. No, I'm, I'm like the buzzword king. Don't a don't ask me to, to explain any of it because I'm just,
you know, hucking a bunch of buzzwords around.
Alex Stone: I got you.
Um, as far as you know, growth for the new customers we do, you can never replace word of mouth. Um, you can never replace word of mouth, and I think that has served us very well over the years of. Um, and we make it very easy to refer a friend. A lot of our groups here that we run, like you can invite a friend for free to do their first session.
Like bring, we want people to train with friends. Like we want kids to work together in a group. Kind of, you know, I think we talked about it offline. Um, last time we tried like, get those kids to together. We want them to have a group where it's like, Hey, you work, maybe you work with your coach once a week, but whether it's you guys should be working on your jump shot, you should be playing.
Um. You know, three on three in the backyard with your buddies after school, like you should have the time and ability to do that. So you'll never replace [00:47:00] word of mouth. Sometimes it's a little word of mouth can be a little funky because sometimes people don't want to. Talk about the fact that they work with a skills coach or a private coach.
Sometimes people don't want to, you know, it, it is expensive. So sometimes people don't always wanna, you know, share what they're doing with their son or daughter and, you know, the hockey world, everyone's trying to like find that hidden coach who's gonna make their, their kid get to the next level, like find the secret sauce somewhere.
Um, but the reality is it comes to just doing the work. So I think word of mouth, I think if we, if we continue to have great coaches on our platform and um, they do a great job working with their athletes, then. In itself, like that's gonna help. I mean, I think that drives most of our customer acquisition from new markets and a paid digital standpoint.
Uh, yeah, it gets more and more challenging. I think we, um, you know, we make an effort to, especially on our paid digital, to kind of more or less show what we do and get away from some of that more generic, like prerecorded actors and actresses and things like that. Like let's really show. [00:48:00] A coach working with a 10-year-old football player who's out there grinding, trying to get better.
Like that's what motivates me. That's what should motivate a parent who's trying to come to us, not, you know. In a, in a very heavily produced, um, studio doing these, you know, foul shots or whatever it is, right? Like, let's really show the kids out there working hard. And it's not always the elite athlete.
Most of the time it's not the elite athlete, it's the kid who's trying to get better and, and willing to grind. So, but paid acquisition is gonna become more challenging. That's, that's part of our strategy around looking at other channels for, for growth. So that's facilities, that's other markets that's, um.
You know, other partnerships, it's an enterprise product. So coaches can run their own business and still use our software and, and build themselves in that local community, right? Um, and help advising them to teach them how to do that, how to run their own Facebook and Instagram ads, how to run their own community type building.
So I think it's very much going that direction where how do we elevate those coaches who [00:49:00] are scaling their business? Um, how do we rely less on just digital ads and how do we touch the customer in a more personalized way? So that's through physical locations and, and coaches in person.
Jason Jacobs: I got two questions left. One is just key priorities over the next 12 or 18 months.
Alex Stone: Yeah, this is a good one. We're gonna integrate, uh, speed and agility, strength and conditioning, human performance, uh, in a pretty big way, uh, in our facilities. I think I see this, this was really the first. Facility for us. I think that's a missing component and we're, we have some updates coming, hopefully pretty soon that we'll be able to accomplish that, where we'll have a more robust coach at performance center where your kids can come and get not only skill development for their respective sport, but they can also get their strength work in strength, work in, um, very much, um.
Within their sport and also within their age group appropriate. So I think that's, that's really the big focus. And I see us having 50 to a hundred locations across the country. Right? So that's obviously not in the eight [00:50:00] next 18 months, but can we go from one to two, one to three, one to four? Um, I think so.
And then how can we prove that in other markets to see the same success that we're having here in Massachusetts? So, um, that's, that's the next 18 months for us.
Jason Jacobs: I, I mean, I'll, I'll try an analogy. Is it, I mean, is it like the D one training for youth sports skills training?
Alex Stone: Uh, a little bit I would say, but we're gonna be more all encompassing than they are. Um, and we're also not gonna be, we're, we're obviously not a franchise, so I think we're gonna hold that we brand authenticity and experience through Coach Up. Um, keep that thread throughout all of our locations.
Jason Jacobs: Mm-hmm. Uh, and uh, last question, just if Coach Up a successful. Beyond your wildest dreams, uh, what does it look like at, at that time in, in its
fullest form?
Alex Stone: that's a good question. I think we're [00:51:00] already successful, fortunately, um, in a, in a sense that I'm really proud of the fact that, uh, I'm, I'm lucky to be able to sit back and. Think about what we do for work and it's actually really trying to think about helping athletes reach their highest potential.
Right. And I think it's come full circle with my own kids now, entering the sports world and how much this is needed and how much it's, um, you know, how, how much of an impact it can have on, on people's lives. So I think that that's, uh, a success in itself, right? I think if we're really looking at, um, you know, long-term success of what it can be, and I think where I plan on taking it is.
You will see a marketplace that's heavily supported by hundreds of locations around the country and really a home base for those coaches to one, not only run their businesses, but it's just the coach up performance centers being synonymous like where with who you are and as an athlete of where you go to reach your goals.
And you do that in an effective, [00:52:00] in a very efficient way. Um, and I think that that's very possible over the next couple years.
Jason Jacobs: Well, it's exciting and I'm definitely wishing you best of luck with it. And I agree with you by the way that you are successful and I mean, look at the work that you do. That you get to do every day and you're helping people, and it's in a category that's so fun as well, and, and builds valuable skills for sports and for life.
Um, uh, for anyone listening that's inspired by your work, like I am, uh, who do you want to hear from, if anybody? And or how can, how can listeners be helpful for you
Alex Stone: For me, you
Jason Jacobs: or coach
up?
Alex Stone: you're asking me? Yeah. I wanna hear from everybody. I mean, I would love to hear, I, you know, I followed a couple of your podcasts. I think, um, um, you know, I think hearing other people's journeys and how they think about, especially youth sports development, right. I think is. Is always cool and interesting.
Right. I think we're, um, you know, I learned something back in IMG when I used to go down there over my Under Armour days that we, we used to run those programs like the Yes. [00:53:00] And programs where every, you know, and people have these ideas and you just keep going. Yes. And, and you just keep elaborating on that.
And I think that's what's cool and use sports of how do we continually have that conversation to do what's right for the athlete and for the coach, and truly think about. Development. Right? Um, and that's at the youth level. Uh, that's at the town level, that's at the tournament team level. Like how do we make sure that we're not just capitalizing on profits and growth and business and how do we focus to make, ensure that we're focusing on doing what's best for the athletes and the coaches, um, and really thinking about it from a development lens.
So I'd love to hear, learn, um. And I love talking, you know, hearing from like sports psychologists and youth sports type people that really think about and talk about, um, the impact of youth sports and helping educate parents who maybe aren't as aware or in the space like you are or were and are now currently with your own kids or me in the space.
So those parents who are totally naive to the [00:54:00] situations like, and they're trying to just keep up and do what people say, right? How can we give 'em more resources and grab some more people that maybe can, can help, um, guide 'em in the right direction?
Jason Jacobs: And if people wanna learn more about Coach Up, where should they go?
Alex Stone: Coach up.com, coach Up Training Center down in Woodburn. If you're in the local area, um, you can reach me directly. Um, so yeah, I mean it's, we're pretty easy to find. If you search anything related to Coach Up, we're gonna hit you with our ads too. So you'll see 'em everywhere and, um, book a session, try it. I think you'll see the improvement with your kids pretty, pretty quickly.
Jason Jacobs: Thanks for coming on, Alex. Best of luck to you and to coach
up.
Alex Stone: Jason. Appreciate it, man.