In this episode of 'The Next Next,' host Jason Jacobs talks with Tyler Dittmer, a seasoned player development coach from Brandon, Manitoba, who has an extensive background in both playing and coaching hockey. Tyler delves into his philosophy surrounding effective player development, the balance between individual skills and team dynamics, and the importance of mental training and holistic approaches in athletics. He also discusses his current work at the Western Canada Hockey Academy, the collaboration between different coaches, and his role as a consultant for an NHL agency. Tyler provides insights into optimizing hockey IQ and the nuances of integrating unstructured play with structured training. In the latter part of the episode, Jason and Tyler brainstorm innovative ways to make advanced player development more accessible and effective for young athletes and their families.
Creating the Next Level in Hockey: A Deep Dive with Player Development Expert Tyler Dittmer
In this episode of 'The Next Next,' host Jason Jacobs talks with Tyler Dittmer, a seasoned player development coach from Brandon, Manitoba, who has an extensive background in both playing and coaching hockey. Tyler delves into his philosophy surrounding effective player development, the balance between individual skills and team dynamics, and the importance of mental training and holistic approaches in athletics. He also discusses his current work at the Western Canada Hockey Academy, the collaboration between different coaches, and his role as a consultant for an NHL agency. Tyler provides insights into optimizing hockey IQ and the nuances of integrating unstructured play with structured training. In the latter part of the episode, Jason and Tyler brainstorm innovative ways to make advanced player development more accessible and effective for young athletes and their families.
00:00 Introduction to the Show and Host
00:33 Guest Introduction: Tyler Dittmer's Background
02:57 Tyler's Journey in Hockey
05:08 Transition to Player Development
10:30 Balancing Skills and Team Play
15:30 Parental Involvement in Player Development
18:14 Optimizing Training and Development
20:15 Video Analysis and Skill Application
36:46 Collaborative Coaching and Future Prospects
42:01 Peer Collaboration in Player Development
42:46 Resuming the Discussion with Tyler
43:45 The Importance of Collaboration and Peer Groups
46:24 Specific Examples of Collaboration in Action
47:30 Balancing On-Ice and Off-Ice Development
49:07 The Role of Academies in Player Development
52:35 Specialization vs. Multi-Sport Participation
57:25 Personal Reflections and Career Aspirations
01:00:34 Leveraging Video and AI in Player Development
01:00:44 Hockey Canada Master's Coaching Program
01:02:07 Consulting and Agency Work with Matt Calvert
01:03:07 Challenges and Opportunities in Player Development
01:23:13 Final Thoughts and Contact Information
[00:00:00]
Jason Jacobs: Welcome to the next. Next, I'm the host, Jason Jacobs. This show sorts through the nuances of athlete development through the lenses of a dad who's trying to figure out how to do athlete development, right with my own kids.
But also as a founder who's in the earliest stages of building a new kind of athlete development company, starting in hockey. Each week I publish a couple of episodes and bring on experts from a wide range of backgrounds, ask a lot of questions, and try to inform my worldview and help all of you to do the same.
Today's guest is Tyler Dittmer. Tyler was born and raised in Brandon, Manitoba. He played his minor hockey with hockey Brandon, and eventually went on to play for the WHL Brandon Weak Kings. He was also part of winning a national championship with the U 18 weak kings in 2004. After finishing his career with the Wheat Kings, he played five seasons at the University of Manitoba before beginning his hockey development career in Winni.
[00:01:00] He worked in player development for six years in Winnipeg before returning home to Brandon, and now he is the director of player development and mentorship at the Western Canada Hockey Academy. He is in player development for the weak kings and he's also still involved in hockey. Brandon, which is near and dear to his.
It. We have a great discussion in this episode about Tyler's path, about what he learned along the way about how he thinks about player development as a craft, the role of a player development coach versus the role of a team coach. We talk about, uh, the state of the sport and kids coming up and the role of parents in the sport, the role of self direction versus giving the kids a little push along the way, and some of the lessons that Tyler's learned in his experience.
So far, and of course we also talk about some of the things I'm thinking about and Tyler has some great feedback and an encouragement for me as well.
Okay. Tyler Dittmer welcome to the show.
Tyler Dittmer: Thank you very much for [00:02:00] having me.
Jason Jacobs: Thanks for coming. I am super excited for this one. I've really been enjoying heading down the player development rabbit hole, and although I played the game for a long time, including for sort of for a couple years in college, I feel like I'm learning the game for the first time now.
As a dad and you are right in the belly of the beast. As a as a skills coach for the weak kings and as the head of, I think it's player development and mentorship for the academy, which is also fascinating 'cause I've heard you talk about the difference between coaching and player development in terms of.
Not controlling their ice, and then the trust that that builds with players. And uh, and then I watched the, um, court screw video that you did on the coaches site, which was awesome and learned a little bit about your craft, and I just feel like I'm gonna have so much to learn from this discussion, so I'm grateful for you making the time to do it.
Tyler Dittmer: of course. I'm excited to get going.
Jason Jacobs: Cool. Well, for starters, Tyler, maybe just talk a bit about your [00:03:00] journey as a player and what led you down the. The, I was gonna say coaching route, but I guess player development or that, that's an open question. Like are you, do you consider yourself a co a coach? Is it player development specifically?
But what led you kind of to transition from playing to you know, to teaching?
Tyler Dittmer: For sure. So I will kind of give you a quick brief of what I did as a hockey player, then how I ended up, where I ended up, uh, growing up in Brandon had some, some success on the teams. I was on. My, my U eight team team did win the first ever national championship for a Manitoba team, and that was a
Jason Jacobs: you had a ton of point, ton of points on that team. I checked elite prospects.
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah. I had a, we, it was one of those years, just like a dream year. Everything went, went incredible. Right after we won that, I got traded to the Brandon Weaks of the WHL, which, uh, which was huge to be able to stay just after winning that and wanting to just like take the next step. It was nice to stay home.
Um, I played for the weekends for a while. We, we never won the league. So when you're [00:04:00] younger and you win something, you really. You take it for granted a little bit. I work with Ryan White, now former NHL. He was on that U 18 team and he never won anything ever again. And it almost, easy is not the right word, but I think you, you take it for granted a little bit when you're younger, winning championships like that.
So I was with the weak kings and then after that I went to Europe for a little bit. There was a rule, it just recently changed, but I had six months to decide if I wanted to try to stay pro and lose my. My academic scholarship from playing in the dub or go back and take advantage of it, and I was in Germany.
It was amazing. The team had a little bit of money problems, so it kind of made my decision easier to go back to, to get my schooling. I went to U of M incredible, five years. Loved every,
Jason Jacobs: And for all, for all you, us people. That's not Minnesota or Michigan or, yeah, that, that is Manitoba.
Tyler Dittmer: That is Manitoba. The NCAA rule existed back then, so you could only play dub or [00:05:00] ncaa. Now that's, it's a dream come true for players. They can do both. But I couldn't go ncaa, so I had five years at University of Manitoba. Uh, right after that, I actually coached not skills coach coached with the team as an assistant coach just to, just to see.
If it's something I enjoyed, uh, it, it was okay. I'll just, that's kind of all I'll say about that. It was Okay. Uh, I started to develop a lot of relationships with the players, just about how to get better, not how to get more ice time. And the funny thing is if you get better, you get more ice time.
So two birds, one stone there. And started working in Winnipeg, in the skill development industry and really enjoyed that. The immediate trust you get from players because you're not in charge of their ice time, is just, it's something hard to explain. And once you have their, their trust and the belief in you, they, they really listening more isn't exactly it.
They just like, they give you more. And when they give you more on the ice, they in turn get better. So that [00:06:00] was really rewarding. And then a massive curve ball. I, uh, my family purchased a dog kennel in Brandon, Manitoba, and needed help and tried to pride myself in my values in life, and I needed to help my family.
So I moved from Winnipeg to Brandon, intending not to do any hockey, and I ran a dog kennel for three years.
Jason Jacobs: I didn't know this part of the story.
Tyler Dittmer: so I ran a dog kennel. It was also the city pound,
Jason Jacobs: I didn't see that on elite prospects.
Tyler Dittmer: so a huge little, huge little change. And then slowly people started to just ask if I could do some stuff in Brandon.
So I started a business called True Skills, and everything was going great. And then WCHA, the academy I'm currently at opened up and they approached me about joining them and that turned into a full-time position and here we are today.
Jason Jacobs: Uh, when was that?
Tyler Dittmer: That was. Four years ago now.
Jason Jacobs: Got it. And so is the stuff you're doing with the [00:07:00] WCHA, how does that fit in with the weak king stuff and the, and one of the reasons I ask is that I heard you talk on. It was some pod or interview or something where you were talking about how everything feeds, like ties from the top to the bottom in Brandon.
So like the little guys all feed one level at a time going all the way up and there's continuity so that if they get the call from the level up going all the way up the chain, they're prepared. But where does that stop? Like is it, is it, and is that WCHA and weak kings or is that something different?
Tyler Dittmer: So that, that's more hockey, Brandon. So the very top is in town is the brand we thinks WHL, but they're, they're a separate entity then. Then there's U 18, the team that I won the nationals with, and then it kind of trickles down under that. So the goal is to have, when you get to U 18, you've gotten all the tactical.
Coaching and when you get there, you kind of know how the team wants to play, so you're able to just execute at a really high pace. My, my favorite example of it is the Chicago polls [00:08:00] back when they were winning and they told everyone, they ran a triangle offense. Everyone knew it. Everyone expected it, but they'd say, good luck stopping us.
We're just so good at the little details of it that you don't know what we're gonna actually do within that. So that's kind of the philosophy is if we can get the kids just bought in all the way up. All the way up, all the way up. So once they're, if they're able to make the UA team, team, now they're just, everyone's on the same page and it makes the coaching a little bit easier for the coaches and hopefully have some more success in, in the program.
Jason Jacobs: And if you, if you look across all those things, the WCHA and hockey, Brandon and the weak kings, how is your portfolio of time divided and and, and how much of that is. One-to-one versus, or big group or anything in the middle.
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah, so very busy. So with the weak kings, it's, it depends on their [00:09:00] schedule. So it could be once a week, it could be twice, it could be once every three weeks. We get so many, uh, development days in there. Then they also get some one V ones. In the mornings of days. That's only for players who aren't in school 'cause they, high school kids are in high school.
And so that's kind of for the weak aspect. So that one's not as busy. Uh, their coaches are obviously extremely busy with game tapes. Then once we get into the hockey brand and what we've done is we do a coaches day every year where I'll run the coaches through a day of how to, how I believe, how you can create practices and then like how to create drills, not me just giving them things.
'cause we did try that. I created every practice plan for every age one year. And some coaches liked it, some it wasn't that the other coaches didn't like it, they just couldn't understand it sometimes. Which is fine. I struggle with like just seeing a drill and knowing what the purpose is. So instead we now try to create together.
Now if we can get coaches bought into not just [00:10:00] quickly googling a practice into like creating what he thinks he or she thinks their team needs, then I think that just benefits hockey Brandon as a whole. So spend a lot of time on that. And then obviously WCHA is busy. So long story long. Probably hockey, Brandon Wise, 10 hours a month.
Private sessions I have probably 30 a month, and then group stuff is unlimited,
Jason Jacobs: when you think about player development, I mean there is obviously there's on ice stuff that you can do. There's video review, there's hockey iq. You can teach, there's a bunch of individual skills that you can gain. There's stuff you can do focused on individuals. There's stuff you can do focused on teams.
How, where does player development get the most bang for its buck? And, and do you have opinions in terms of the right ways to do it and wrong ways to do it?
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah, so [00:11:00] I think the biggest like conundrum we're in right now with player development is we've created too many individually skilled hockey players that a lot of people call 'em practice players. And I bring this up a lot of times with other development coaches and like it, it kind of is majority our fault.
'cause we did teach them all that individual skill, which. Players need. Everyone knows that. But if they can't play the game of hockey, 'cause it's a team game, it's then we've done them a disservice. So I think that needs to be like a big topic, a discussion with every player development coach. And it's not, I.
It's not to take a jab at anyone. It's like we, we did this. We thought we were doing something right. And in terms of skill development, we did. But we gotta remember, it's not an individual game, it's a team game. So everything you teach should have that application of where is your teammate? Where's the defender?
Can you make a pass outta this? Can you shoot it outta this? And just having those [00:12:00] little conversations, even if it's a one-on-one with a player where there's, that's not even an option. Those conversations still need to be discussed because it's just too many individually skilled players out there right now.
Jason Jacobs: When it comes to skill development in Brandon, and from everything I can gather, Brandon is a hockey hotbed. How much of it is players and families seeking out development on their own, and how much of it is provided more from the team?
Tyler Dittmer: Pretty much all from families looking to, to do extra just like anywhere else, especially in Canada, ice time's a premium. It's hard to, it's hard for teams to, to get enough practice time period. So for them to. Think they need to work on individual skills within that practice. They find it hard when they need to figure out their team's breakouts and their tactical and, and all that.
And that's understandable for coaches. So then families have to find their own way to get their kids more [00:13:00] developed outside of team practices. So we have a lot of early mornings and then try to find some evenings if the kids are in our academy, they get that during the day to save their family time for the evenings.
But yeah, families do a lot for their young players here.
Jason Jacobs: And I mean that's similar to how it is here too. You have a, you know, a couple practices, maybe a skills with your team, and then you have a couple games on weekends, unless it's a tournament weekend or something. But then, especially as you get to the higher level, higher youth levels. The kids and families are doing a lot of extra stuff to stay competitive.
And on the one hand you can say, well, it's creating practice players and and it doesn't translate well to games if, you know, if the cones can't take the puck away or, or, uh, back check or whatever. Right. But the, I think the flip side is that I've heard people say, and I'm curious, your thoughts that.
That having that level of skills now is kind of baseline, right? Where you need to have that level of skills. And then within that, who's got the best hockey iq? But if you don't have the skills, you're not even in the discussion, right? And so what do we do about that? [00:14:00] Because, kids and families are gonna continue to seek out individual skills development.
'cause they, you know, they don't wanna get cut.
Tyler Dittmer: For sure. I think that's a great point. It's, I talk to a lot of scouts and they almost don't look at skating as much anymore 'cause they just, everyone is a good skater or should be. So like that needs taught. Same with like passing, like they only notice if you're a bad passer. They're not looking for good passing.
It's just like, if you can't pass, we notice that we expect you to pass. So all these, I like that term. Baseline skills need to be, need to be top end and, excuse me. And I do think there's lots of good development coaches out there, and I think that is happening. When I was just in the Hockey Canada program, we talked about the next step.
Probably is gonna be like assistant coaches are skills coaches. There's no more bringing in another guy instead, like, just have one of your coaching staff be able to teach those skills so they could get it more in, in a compounding effect of just a [00:15:00] little bit every practice instead of once a week for an hour.
Because the, like, translation to that isn't as good as just like 10 minutes every day, just a compound. I believe that's something that, that could happen and will happen in, in the older ages for younger ages, though I do agree. It's, it's, it's a, like I said, a conundrum. You, you need the players to be skilled, but it, it is hard for me to see the families going so far and beyond to have to provide that.
So it's a tough situation.
Jason Jacobs: S if you're a motivated kid or you're a dad who's or mom trying to help shape your motivated kid and give them the support that they need, especially at the younger ages where they aren't necessarily in a position to, to have the maturity or wherewithal to be able to. Seek out stuff on their own, nor are they paying for it or nor do they understand the value of money.
Right. So it's like there's a whole number of reasons why the parent needs to be involved. Right. But uh, what advice do you have for them in [00:16:00] terms of trying to make sure that their kids do get skilled, but not in a way that is detrimental to them becoming a whole player?
Tyler Dittmer: for sure. I really love meeting with families face to face and just discussing what their needs are in a different context. I will relate to this is, let's say I'm training someone who's gonna go play pro. And is like sign a contract. He's for sure playing on a team. If I don't contact his team and see what their systems and structures are, then I could be teaching a bunch of skills that he won't even use all year.
Where let's say they only bring the puck up, strong side on retrievals. Well, I'm, and he's a demon. I'm not gonna work on bumps behind the net. Like, let's work on what his team needs him to be really good at, get really good at that. Then his coach will play him more. Then he'll get more ice time and hopefully make more money and everyone's happy.
So I being able to figure out like little goals of what they need to get better at. It's very similar to your last newsletter about the high frequency event with low [00:17:00] success rate. If we can pinpoint that same idea, just different kind of context, then we can. Kind of attack the skills that they need to get better.
'cause once you get better at something new opportunities happen, then you need to work on something new. But you can't just teach everything at once. It's just too much for the brain to like. Figure out and put together and, and get stronger quicker. So just like attacking certain skills. So back to the original question of if I'm, when I meet with the family, we discuss what we're looking for.
Have their coaches, have they talked to their coaches? Have they asked? Just like figuring out exactly what they need. If parents and families can know what they need, they'll save some money on doing everything. And then we can just like progress from there. So just having a plan in place. For example, if someone came and wanted to do one-on-ones here, let's say it's a 7-year-old, they would do an evaluation skate where we would kind of like test them on all the fundamentals.
We would [00:18:00] figure out what they need, for sure. First, make a plan, do that, and then keep moving on from there. So it's not just do everything at once, just really attacking the certain areas we need and then progressing from there.
Jason Jacobs: So I've written down three things here. One is test on the fundamentals. Two is game video review, and three is conversation with. and family. And, and you didn't, you didn't say the video part, but I added that because in the, in the conversation you mentioned with Brett Leonard, which isn't published yet, but will be probably by the time, well will be by the time this one is he was talking about the similar to how you were saying talk with the family, he was saying watch three games.
Right. Yeah. And so in those three buckets, the testing on the fundamentals, the game video review and the conversation with players and family. How much of each of those do you utilize? Which ones of those do you distrust, if anything? It'd be great to just kind of get inside your brain and, and I'll [00:19:00] preface, one of the things I've been thinking about is. things that then determine what to work on. I feel like right now my observation and I know I'm living it with my kid, it's just like you don't know exactly what they need, so you're just more of everything.
Tyler Dittmer: for sure.
Jason Jacobs: yeah. And then you might be overweight on some things and underweight on others, but you don't even know because you're just in the more of everything mode and time is the biggest asset.
Of course money too. Right? But, but it's like, it's like how do I use my time and money wisely? Yeah. In order to do that. You need to assess properly. And that assessment, I feel like is often, especially because the development's left to the kids and the families, it's not getting done right.
So yeah. So I'll put that to you. 'Cause like that assessment process you mentioned, if there were a way to get that in more people's hands, I think that in itself would lead to far more efficient development, which would bring up the level of the game. So
Tyler Dittmer: A hundred percent. So saving time and saving money is something I, I'm very. I try to do all the time for all my [00:20:00] clients. And of course people say, why do you wanna save them money? Well, if I save you time and money and your player gets better, you're probably gonna continue to train here. And that's the goal, right?
For us to, to progress a player all the way through and, and have them have success. And, and that's what makes us happy here. So for those three buckets, if you can watch video on a player that is, that is amazing. That would be the best case scenario, like quality shifts videos. But for us here, that only happens at U 15 AAA or higher if you, if your team's even purchase like an in-stat or Sport Logic account,
Jason Jacobs: Do. Do you not have live barn in the rinks?
Tyler Dittmer: We do have Live barn, but a family would then have to send those to those people and get them clipped to one of those companies.
Jason Jacobs: Or actually live barn with, I think Sport Logic powers this. You can now go in Live bar. I just learned this in the last few weeks because I had a development coach who said Hey, let me give you a taste of how this works. Send me a clips of your kid. Right? I put that in the newsletter [00:21:00] too, and I, so you go on live bar and you pay 15 bucks.
And you put in the jersey number, what side of the ice they're on, what time the game was, what rink it was on what position they play. I might be missing one. You know who the, you know who the, who your team was, who the opponent team was, whatever. And you know, oh, game start time. Game end time, right.
You do that and within an hour or two, it sends you one file that has all your kids clip shifts, and then every time they're on the ice, it's got a little number above their head. And you can then hand that to. You to analyze the issue is that it's a pain in the butt to get and that 15 bucks a game does add up, right?
But it is now becoming possible without having to pay whatever it is, 10 KA seed or whatever the prices are for, um, you know, for some of these team only. I'm dying to go and get into in stack, get into 49 and get into huddle, get into sport logic. But like, they all only see, only seem to focus on teams and the price point is so prohibitive because it'd be like.
For a team that me as an individual who's just looking to help my kid like, or, or, or build a platform that helps lots of kids, like I can't even get [00:22:00] access to know what's there, let alone how I might work with it or what things might already exist or where the white space might be. I don't even know because I can't use it.
So anyways, back to you.
Tyler Dittmer: That, that is amazing to know. Not all of our rinks have that our rink does. That does just give you access to a lot of, of areas for coaches. Next thing I do this with, with some clients, I do come watch their games. That's obviously a time sensitive thing for me and, and my family, but that is something I provide.
I try to do that once a month for sure. Just 'cause if what I see compared to the parents is different, I just want to like make sure, but if
Jason Jacobs: you have a, are, are these like retainer type arrangements or, or are these for people that just do like, like privates, one at a time.
Tyler Dittmer: So in my mentorship program I have clients that I meet with weekly and that is just part of that. I do work with majority of players in Brandon, so I try to go watch like the teams a decent amount at least once a month. The thing is, once you go see them a couple times, when you [00:23:00] work with someone so much, you can, like, you know what you're gonna see just from conversations.
We do watch video every week, so I see them all the time. Um, but it is nice to just get the atmosphere and just see maybe there's something with the pressure of the people there that's affecting them, just like different variables that way. But if we're a lot of younger players, now that I know what you said, that's pretty cool about, you can send 15 bucks in
Jason Jacobs: I'll send you information on it. Yeah. It, uh, once you figure it, it's a bit of a pain, but once you figure it out, like you can start incorporating that into your service and either you, either charge 15 bucks more or get the parent to clip the shifts and send you the file.
Tyler Dittmer: That's huge because right now all I have to go off of is the meeting, which is great to get like the feelings from the parents and have the kids on it, and then just discuss what they see. I will always contact the coach as well. Again, just to get two perspectives. 'cause I'm a parent,
Jason Jacobs: parents don't know. I don't, I don't even feel like I know with my own kid. It's like, it's like, I feel like on games I thought he played well. Like, um, I get feedback that he didn't, or on [00:24:00] games. I think he played like crap. It's like that was his best game of the season. It's like, all right, like I'm gonna, uh, I'm gonna give no feedback and just stay outta the way because I don't seem to know what I'm talking about.
Tyler Dittmer: Okay. I know, and so we. That's why the coach comes in. Great. And then myself seeing the game. So like three different perspectives of it. Again, when you watch hockey enough and know enough of like systems, you know, the skills that are needed, uh, like fundamental skills, not just like skating, shooting, passing, just every, pretty much every team. Now U 15 up plays like a collapsed D zone because of analytics. Like a point shot with no traffic, less than 1% chance of going in a point shot with traffic, less than 3% chance. So you have wingers playing so low in the D zone and letting the DHA that like you have to play, play the math.
So now teaching the skills within that is to me that's a fundamental because every team's doing it. So how do you. How do you break that D zone? How do you [00:25:00] make plays out of that? So that is something I key on a lot, even with younger players because like, they don't need to know what the D Zone is, but if they can get the skills.
That'll beat that D zone. Once they figure it out, then they'll get more ice time. And then probably the, the toughest thing in hockey is a winger getting a puck and trying to get it out. With a d pinching it's success rates like less than 38% in the NHL. So you could imagine what it is in like, younger kids, probably like 10%, but that's not really a fun thing to work on.
So how do I create an environment where actually working on that skill is enjoyable for kids? 'cause kids need to enjoy it, for it to translate to their brain. So I've been working on a lot of those. I call those ice time builders because the better you get at them, the more ice time you get. So just figuring out that stuff is, is huge with families and those discussions.
And the top thing, I'd say the biggest bucket in there though would be video for sure.
Jason Jacobs: So given that if [00:26:00] you were to work with someone ongoing, or it sounds like you do have clients that you work with ongoing, whether it's on privates or through the academy or. Whatever what frequency do you do you adapt the training based on what you're seeing in the footage? Like in your ideal world?
If cost and time wasn't an issue, which, and, and then we can have the same discussion with, since cost and time is an issue but would you wanna be watching footage and adjusting the training that you're providing? And then how much of that training that you're providing is you know, can only be done.
On ice in private or small group versus you know, versus stuff that they can do on their own time. Homework, stuff to read, things to watch through conversation. You know, can this, can any of this stuff be taught off the ice? I.
Tyler Dittmer: That's a great question. I'll just go by like, I have a player who's just drafted the NHL. Incredibly proud of him. He is unique and he skates four days a week. Um. Which I don't love for most players, but [00:27:00] he's just
Jason Jacobs: you think too much.
Tyler Dittmer: I think too much four days straight and then playing on weekends. Plus your team practices.
Yeah. He, but he grew up on a farm. I don't know what it is about him. He just like, he just like he needs it. And then we also do video every week. Then we also do a little bit of my mentorship is like the mental training, the learning, the reading books, the journaling, the discussions. Essentially going for walks and talking.
Like he does all of that every week and it's worked really well for him. But as for he's gotten to a place where I could tell him to do something and he can for sure do that on his own. Um, because we've spent so much time together. We wouldn't per se do one-on-ones anymore on the ice because I need, his individual skill is, it's there, it's NHL there.
He needs now to only do how to read plays, how to build pressure. So his smallest group setting would be eight and [00:28:00] at full speed the whole time. He is in another group of 20 'cause he, I want that full ice scrimmage aspect as well. So that's like, I'm just trying to give you like a perfect situation. But then if I needed him to.
To get ready for the 400 questions at the NHL team. We're gonna ask him at supper. At the keg, we would watch a video on like body language. We'd talk about eye contact, we'd talk about becoming a better person. Because the funniest story I have with him is the first time I ever spoke to him, I said, Hey, do you not like me?
Because he was so quiet and shy. He came across as rude and he's like, no, no, no, like you're my favorite coach. And we laughed, but I'm like. I know that you don't, you'd like me, but if a scout got that in interpretation from you, they're crossing you off your list. So he had to work just as hard as being outgoing as he did to get better as a hockey player.
And to me that's, that's the same if he didn't do both. He's not getting drafted. [00:29:00] He's not. Answering 400 questions from an NHL scout for two hours at a supper by himself and passing that psychology test, like, so all of that stuff is important. Once you build that trust, then they can do it on their own.
But when he started, I walked him through everything, with all of that.
Jason Jacobs: So a related question, video each player's in a different place. Everyone's journey's different, so I could see that there's value in individual. Video. But a lot of the things, you know, a lot of the, the knock is if you go straight from video to just work on individual skills in a private right then it's hard to convey, it's hard to recreate the game situations to then be able to apply those skills in a game format and can not only.
Maybe not help the thing you're trying to help, it may actually be detrimental. And so I guess my question is, if you watch video for different kids and they all need things to work on, but optimally you need to put them in a group game-like environment, but they all have different things to work on, how do you reconcile that and um, do they each take turns where [00:30:00] one drills for this kid and one drills for that kid, and even though there's a whole group on the ice, like each one gets their turn?
Or are there ways to kind of weave that together in a cohesive session?
Tyler Dittmer: That, that's another great question. You're really good at asking these questions,
Jason Jacobs: I am just dying to learn like I, 'cause I, I, I'm, so, I wanna help, I wanna get more involved. I'm passionate about it and I don't know. So that's kind of why I'm, why I'm doing, it's why I'm, why I'm thinking about building in this area because I feel like there's a lot of parents like me and if I can help myself, then maybe I can learn how to leave a trail digitally and help a bunch of people so that it just makes the whole process more efficient for everybody.
That's the hope. I don't know what I'm building yet, but that's why I'm doing it.
Tyler Dittmer: And I love it. Um, it's gonna be amazing. So I'm very fortunate that. This player who I'm training his group will be players that he probably played with on the same team, or at least the same league. And then same with say, I have a U 15 group, they're all on the same team or in the same league. So what happens is when I watch a video of that same team [00:31:00] or same league, the same things happen all the time.
The same tactical situations happen. So if I'm working on something that eight of the 10 kids. Need to get better at. The other players are also getting those opportunities, and if they're really, you can never be too good at something. So we're gonna do a, we do a lot of the high frequency events. Some players might be low success rate, some players might be medium, some might be great, but there's still high frequency events that they need to get good at.
And I mentioned it earlier how hockey branding kind of builds and builds and builds. Well, that's hopefully gonna continue till like they're at their top, the top U 18 team where they need to get really good at these things or they're not gonna make the team. And that's always my key focus. Like I have a group that starts today, it's our U 18 group one, we call it.
Well, I met with the coach of the team. I'm like, Hey, what are you doing tactically this year? So like their whole team tryouts this group all summer. These kids, not all of them can make the team. [00:32:00] Um, there's 26 kids in the group, only 22 make it. But like they're all gonna work on the things that the coach needs them good at.
So the coach is gonna get a little head start. So when he, when he picks his team, he knows the kids can kind of execute what they, what he needs already. Now, when I do video with these guys later on, and it's the same stuff we worked on all summer we need to continue to work on that and I need to come up with a way to get them better at it.
But they're so bought into it that like when I run video sessions with some of my guys, they'll be like, it's the same thing. I'm like, I know it is. And he is like, we should keep working at that. And I'm like, yes, you should. So now imagine their attitude on the ice. They're like, holy crap, this happens every second shift.
And they're so bought in. So the other thing I do too, I just started to do it, is we'll watch. Say it's a game that they lost. We're actually gonna watch the game from the other team's perspective. I. What did the other team do to beat you? Not even watching you anymore? We're watching their players and I [00:33:00] think that's a great way for a coach if a team really beats you bad instead of going into a video session and watching your team and all the mistakes and everyone's sad, where you actually, okay, we're actually watching this team.
What did they do well to beat us And now you get the same message, but in a more positive kind of uplifting way. 'cause kids know, and players know when they make mistakes. Like, trust me, when I made a turnover and they scored, I didn't need reminded on the bench. So trying to like that philosophy has really helped my relationship building.
Jason Jacobs: You mentioned before that you need to find ways to essentially like. Make it, make vegetables taste like candy. You didn't use you, you, you were, you didn't use those words, but that's what you meant. Like if there's stuff you need, like the breakout you mentioned, right?
You know where, where you collect a, a pass on the rim and you need to get it out. It's a low probability rate. You need to work on it, but it's not fun. So how do we make it fun? I have that question about video, right? Because. Because video is one of the most effective things, but kids have no attention span and and it's boring, right?
[00:34:00] So what have you found are some best practices to tread that balance and get enough substance through on the video without making it feel like you're sitting in a boring lecture?
Tyler Dittmer: For sure. So some things I've done that really helped. I make them hold a whiteboard, like a brink whiteboard with a marker. One zone's D zone, one zone's ozone, and obviously middles neutral zone. They have different colors and they have to touch every first puck touch. So it makes them pay attention.
'cause like you said, it could be boring just in an office with me watching yourself. So now they're dialed in with different markers trying to like touch it and go. That also gives you a cool heat map that I could get on Insta. But like if they do it, they feel part of it. Another way after I've done that a few times is I have a big whiteboard behind here.
I'll write out like three things or three ways you impacted the team. Positive three ways that. Three shifts where you didn't touch the puck. Why do you think? And then another one, without using the word negative, like three ways that I could have helped the [00:35:00] team get a scoring chance. Just word it in a way that it's not like three bad plays, three negatives, just word it.
So now the whole time they're, they gotta be dialed in and paying attention and write it out. So those have just been ways, if I don't know the player yet to get them like dialed in right away, but. Most of these players I see literally every day, probably a couple times a day, just around all around Brandon.
And like I have such good relationships with them that our hour together, it is like hyper-focused. How do I get better? What do you see? And, but yeah, those other ways were good ways When I first meet with clients.
Jason Jacobs: You mentioned that if you had the shifts it would be a huge help. Is there anything else that you might get on an in-stat or. Some of these other platforms that the teams have access to that or that you don't get on those that you would want, that would be helpful for you in optimizing the development plan for what to work on with, with players.
Like what, what would you wanna see beyond the shifts, if anything? I.
Tyler Dittmer: So I really like [00:36:00] the, obviously the shot map. It is great on Insta. It kind of breaks down where you're shooting it from and you can even click on it if it's, you can watch the video of it. That's nice if they miss the net. All of those like tiny little details. I would love the, and it might exist. I haven't found it yet, at least on Insta is the first touch of the puck.
Where's your first touch? All the time. I. I think that is incredibly important for players to know where their first touch is. 'cause I do a lot of like first touch acceleration, first touch into like snapping pucks across just like individual skills that I could apply right away to them. 'cause if you can touch the puck and then your team in a better position after you touch it again, that leads to more ice time.
And that's what everyone wants.
Jason Jacobs: Do you have any clients you work with that are that don't, that you know, that are maybe located in other parts of the world and don't go on the ice? Or is everybody in Brandon where you have access to them on the ice as well?
Tyler Dittmer: So I'm, I'm very fortunate to [00:37:00] 99% of my guys are here and they keep getting drafted to the weekend, so it's great. Travis Heim is the one guy that, that's not here. He trains here in the summer, plays the Philadelphia Flyers. He obviously in the NHL has a lot of. Amazing coaches in Philadelphia and video coaches.
We do talk a little bit about some aspects about games, just when he, when he wants to get another perspective, but most of my guys are here. I do have a bunch of guys that will be graduating to a new program outside of here. So if you ask me this question next year, I'll probably have at least six guys outside of Brandon.
Jason Jacobs: I mean, I'll just give you a hypothetical. We published this episode and because I'm located here in New England, a dozen or two dozen or a hundred families call me up and say, that guy Tyler's awesome. I want him to work with my kid. If you had the bandwidth and and the interest, right?
Uh. W how would you work with them knowing you wouldn't have access to them on the ice? Or would you just say, you know what? I don't think I would be set up to [00:38:00] be effective, so they should save their money and work with someone local.
Tyler Dittmer: That's another great question. Measure that. I think like, I'll go off. Best case scenario is doing, if I could get some shifts, go over the video, but then also see their like summer skates. Again, if someone came to video my skates to show another development coach, I'm okay with that. 'cause I think we're, we all need to work together.
But some coaches might be like, absolutely not. I don't want my session to be like broken down.
Jason Jacobs: What are you looking for in those summer skates?
Tyler Dittmer: Well, I would, again, when you do something for so long, you get really good at knowing. I call 'em prerequisite skills. I'd be looking to see just prerequisite skating, puck handling, and shooting.
Jason Jacobs: it is this game scenario. Is this like dribbling through co stick handling through cones? Like what, what type of summer skate are you envisioning?
Tyler Dittmer: I'm assuming most players are doing similar to what we're doing and it, and [00:39:00] it is individually skilled, so I would like to see those. Yeah, like all of that. Just to make sure there's, there's a couple little skills that like make a world. The world of a difference for players that they all need to do.
And if they're not doing those, I would just speak on those. Again, I would happily speak with their development coach as well. 'cause we could share some ideas just to not offend anyone, but there's some things that need to exist in a player for them to even attempt to take the next step. So I'd wanna make sure those were there.
Jason Jacobs: And then once you. Identify those. If you felt like there was enough to work with, then what does working with them look like at that point?
Tyler Dittmer: So after we've got through prerequisite skills, I would, this is where it would get tricky on the, what they're doing for skates wise. 'cause I don't want to tell a guy what he has to do. But you
Jason Jacobs: A guy being meaning another skills
Tyler Dittmer: another skills coach, I, if a guy called me and said, so this, to me, it's the same as a team calling me and being like, [00:40:00] my player needs to work on this.
I don't get offended that he's telling me what their player needs to work on. It's my, I'm trying to help. So if another development coach called me and said, Hey, I train this guy all the time, but he's coming over there to see you. Could you work on this? That's great.
Jason Jacobs: I wonder you know, how. I don't know. Maybe you don't know. 'cause I, I don't dunno if they're in Canada, but like Equinox for example, it's like, if you're, uh, you know, I go to Equinox in Boston, but I it was, it's just like a, it's like a fancy gym, right? But they I don't have the membership.
We can use it anywhere, but if I did like, if you travel to another place you know, you're getting, you know what it is, you're getting Equinox, right? And. I don't do any of the personal training, but I wonder, I actually don't know if this is true, if I worked with a trainer in that other location, if they would have access to everything I've done with them locally Starbucks, right?
It's like if you go to or Tim Horton's, right? Like you go to different, there we go. Now I'm speaking your language but it's like you go to, you know, what you're getting, right? Imagine if there were a [00:41:00] network of skills coaches who all had access to this, you know, it was like all part of the same system so that it wasn't telling someone what to do.
It was a collaborative approach in different geographies like. I don't know, maybe. Maybe there's something there.
Tyler Dittmer: I agree. And I think what you're trying to build could have a impact on that. I think that would be huge. I'm. I've always been in the, everyone can learn from everyone no matter what, instead of keeping secrets. And I know skills coaches have to steal from each other, but for something to be stolen, something has to be created.
And I'm really into the creation part of, in my journey. And if someone wants to take it, that's amazing. But again, we can't just keep stealing the same stuff, something new needs created. And I would love to do that with other skills coaches.
Jason Jacobs: You know what else would be cool is if you did that, then you also get multiple eyes on the player's development and not just the input of one. So that the people, it's kind of like, um, like if you have something wrong with you and you have a [00:42:00] doctor, look at the labs they might talk to. Other colleagues who are trained in the same area for second or third opinions, right?
It's like, Hey, I haven't seen this one before. It's an edge case, right? I'm trying to figure out what to make of it. It's like, Hey, like this kid's confusing because like, like their hockey IQs really strong, but where's the grit? And um, and like what, is it just you have a donor or are there things I can actually do to work with this kid?
Because the other things are so strong. Like, but that thing right there, and like, has anyone had any success working with, with players on similar Right. You know, stuff like that. Do you have a, actually that leads me to another question. Do you have a peer group of other player development people that, that you can trade notes like that and share ideas?
Okay. Part two of my discussion with Tyler, man, we were on a roll, Tyler, and then my wifi gave out and it's been like three or four days since then. I sh I got a nice haircut. I shaved, I'm wearing a different outfit, so we're gonna [00:43:00] pick up where we left off, but listeners, if it, if it sounds a little jagged that's why.
But welcome back Tyler.
Tyler Dittmer: Thank you for having me again.
Jason Jacobs: And we were, we were just talking a bit about, creation versus stealing and how you're in a creation phase as a, as a development professional. And we were talking about doctors and, and how, you know, when they have a tricky patient problem, they consult other people in their practice that have a similar expertise to.
To to get input of others. And, and I was wondering if you have similar in the development world, like peers that you talked through, either specific cases with clients or players that you work with or just best practices in in general. And that's right where we cut out. So maybe answer that and we can jump back in.
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah, that's a great example with the doctorates. If, if they can't figure something out, they collaborate and I want to get to that. Right now I have about two to three guys that we share ideas with and I really want to grow that into. [00:44:00] Into a big platform. 'cause every one of us sees things a little bit different.
That doesn't mean better. We just see it a little bit different. And like you said before, if you can get more eyes on anything, there's probably gonna be a better outcome. And I think to find the right people that want to collaborate on it and, and be honest and be open to potentially being wrong. And then that's the key to it, is finding the right kind of group.
Jason Jacobs: Uhhuh. And when you think about that type of collaboration, whether it's in person, whether it's digital, whether it's people you know, whether it's, you know, strangers with similar backgrounds, do you have an idea of how can you visualize what that collaboration looks and feels like?
Tyler Dittmer: I, I can, it would be very similar to like a round table discussion where no one's the head of the table, it's everyone's in. Better or worse equal footing and gotta be able to have a voice. Uh, I've been part of similar groups where it's led and [00:45:00] ran by a couple people that their ideas are the only ideas that work and everyone else is wrong.
So like, you don't feel part of it. So it, it's just not a good feeling coming out of that. And that's just, I learned from that and that is not something I want to create. I wanna create where everyone feels open and, and has the opportunity to speak.
Jason Jacobs: And do you think it's more useful around. General principles, philosophies, drills, et cetera, or or specific issues examples, whether it's with a specific player or a team that you're working with.
Tyler Dittmer: I think it can be really good for both, but the latter there, the specific. Topics, the harder, if you want to call it, to go back to the doctor example, the tricky diseases the situations where the players are kind of stuck on something or, or their development has kind of slowed down. Just like being able to talk about this, the really, really important tiny little details, I [00:46:00] think would be the best for it.
Jason Jacobs: Can you think of either? Some examples where you have had a problem like that and anonymize it, an like genericize, whatever details will, hide who you're talking about. So like a pro, an air, an issue where you had an issue and you were able to get that input through collaboration, or one where you had the issue and you really could have used it but didn't have it.
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah, so one example, uh, a player's skating. Technique. Just no matter how many hours myself or another coach spent on it, something just wasn't clicking, like something muscle fiber wise. So a little bit out of my scope, obviously, so we, without being stubborn and making them pay more money for more power skating sessions, we collaborated with a, like a movement specialist, and he got a bunch of tests done.
And it wasn't until he got like a skeletal test done that they figured out there's something in his, in his torso bones that weren't working properly. And so he went through the procedure, got it [00:47:00] fixed, and it completely changed how he skates. And now he's a beautiful skater and he is able to take the next step in his hockey journey.
But if I wasn't open to him going to someone else or another specialist, then we probably would've been stuck. And that was probably like when I knew like, you know, you gotta, you gotta look outside the box when things aren't, when normal routines that normally work aren't working. You gotta figure something a little bit different and be open to, like, I was, I was wrong in the skating.
It was something above that
Jason Jacobs: Uhhuh, and that's an interesting one because that's not another player development person. That's one of the things we're wrestling with. Like is it, is it. You know, how much do you stay specific to what happens on the ice and then on ice drills to work on those things. And how much do you incorporate strength, nutrition, mental performance, like off ice conditioning?
When you think of this peer group, is it more valuable to have other player development people that do what you do or to have these [00:48:00] complimentary areas that affect what happens on the ice or
Tyler Dittmer: I think, I think you need some other. Profess professions in there. Like for example, since this happened with this player I work closely with a strength and conditioning coach that they have to do a, like a movement test before I do any sort of skating with them. 'cause I don't wanna have a family against spend money when they, it was something that no matter how many hours we spent on the ice could fix.
So they have to do certain movements and if they can't do those movements. I know it's not gonna help them on the ice. So they just work with that strength coach to be able to move properly before we adjust their skating and it's worked great. And yeah, so that's kind of how I've already started.
And I'm sure there's other ways to progress that. Like I'm sure you've heard a lot of players with a negative self-talk, and it is, it is a serious problem in our game. The kids put so much pressure on themselves. Well, I would love to have a collaboration with someone who could speak on that. And help them with that before I keep saying [00:49:00] to talk better to themselves.
Just instantly send them to someone that can help with that right away so we can just progress quicker and quicker.
Jason Jacobs: Now, how much of that have you gotten down the path of in the academy environment? Because I would think from a distance, it seems like academies can be the breeding ground for that kind of collaboration.
Tyler Dittmer: It's the base of it all. It's, it's how I've been able to work with a lot of these players and. If you see someone skate with them five days a week and you work on a certain technique or certain skill and it's just not quite progressing as the other players or just overall generally, you know, it's something something different.
And because of that I've been able to really quickly like just know it's a movement. It's a movement thing. Contact the parents, get them adjusted and it happens so much quicker than in other situations when if I only saw the kid once a week, I would just think, oh, it's just taking some time. Maybe that time could have been better spent getting his, you know, his mobility better or his, his bone flexibility and all those fancy [00:50:00] things.
Like just figure it out and then we can get back to him progressing. 'cause kids want to get better if they, if they stop getting better, slow down, they get frustrated. And it's human nature. So we're trying to just help in that process every way possible.
Jason Jacobs: Now one of the things that I wrestle with, and I actually. There's an article in your inbox that you probably too busy to read it, but it was the one on the you know how the youth sports is changing the path to the NBA, right? Um, like the state of youth sports, I forget the exact title, but but on the one hand we talk about kids need to play more free, like more.
More just like stick and puck, more pawn time, more unstructured play. Keep it fun, play loose, carefree. Right. And then the other, it's like kids need to be surrounded by more handlers and there needs to be more collaboration across their handlers and and and on the, on the one hand, the handlers greatly increased the skill by giving them access on and on the other.
And this was the example that came up in that article. It was like. What are you starving [00:51:00] for? Because growing up, like we had to work to, it's like you didn't get access to handlers until you were in college or maybe even the pros, right? And now you're getting 'em when you're like nine years old, right?
So how do you think about that tension as it relates to both keeping it fun and avoiding burnout, but also keeping it, you know, like, like giving the kids room to be self-directed and to be creative?
Tyler Dittmer: It is such a fine line. Norca Hockey had a good example of it 'cause he just grew up kind of on the pond doing all that and he's like, it's important. But I also got, he's speaking as him, I got a real bad habit of taking a slap shot with my eyes down and there was no one to help me and I couldn't shake that habit.
So if kids just play free all the time. They do get creative, but they, they do get some habits that are stuck. They're stuck in there and they're never going away. And a lot of times those habits aren't, aren't exactly ideal. But too many handlers. Like I've had a lot of players, they do anything on the ice.
They'll skate up to me and be like, was that okay? And I just, in those [00:52:00] moments, I'm like, oh, they're relying on my feedback too much. I'm not there in a hockey game to, to help them with that. So I've had to pivot and. And let them figure it out a little bit more and just ask them more questions. And we call it like putting them in a live situation on the ice once their technique is good enough that they have to be able to make reads and figure it out and go from there.
So it's a combination of the two. And I'll be honest, I'm still really trying to figure out that combination to work best and that's why I love what I do. I, I'm always gonna also fail, but I'm also gonna learn from it and keep getting better.
Jason Jacobs: I mean, even the decision to put the kid in in the academy, I, I mean, I would imagine does the academy, is it, if I recall, it's hockey and golf, right?
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah, so we just started the golf this year. There's a hockey only or a hybrid of golf and hockey
Jason Jacobs: Uh huh And and what, what's the youngest age that it starts at?
Tyler Dittmer: grade five.
Jason Jacobs: And even the decision to specialize at [00:53:00] age five? I mean, that in itself is a, is a decision. And how, what advice do you have for. Parents since obviously the kid has input, but at grade five it's pr I would hope it's not the kid calling the shots.
Right. So what advice would you have for the parents to know when it is healthy and enabling for the kid and when it might be trying to force a square peg in a round hole or or live vicariously or, or any of the narratives that you hear people complain about? Hockey parents about.
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah, of course. So I'm very multi-sport. Uh, I always have been. I think it's incredibly important, like the best hockey players are the best athletes. That's just proven. There doesn't need to be a study that's just obvious. So we do a lot of other sports here. It's not just hockey, like we have our track and field.
We do tons of field trips where they learn basketball, volleyball, and all the other sports. Our dry land is, we have pickleball courts here. Like it is nonstop. I would. I would almost say that they [00:54:00] get more other sports than other schools just because we get to more structure of it. They, every single one of them also play baseball still in their brand and youth baseball and all that.
So as for the specialization, I still remember I was a pretty good soccer player and I remember having to choose when I was younger, like to continue with just Talk your soccer. And I remember asking like, why? And the people were just like, oh, you just. You can't do both. And it just confused me. And it's so, I never wanna tell players they can only play hockey.
I don't think that's, that's too much pressure on them. And that's what's happening with a lot of these kids. They, they feel like they can only play hockey and they have to be the best at hockey. And it's just pressure that it's still a game that they love. So no families will ever get that from me, that it's just a specialization point.
Now, don't get me wrong, there comes a time we just had a player here drafted in the NHL. He's been pretty dialed in hockey for about three years though, not for [00:55:00] 10, for three years. And now in those three years he knows like it's hopefully gonna be his life and he's okay with that now 'cause he's grown up and and done everything else.
So that's how I see the philosophy. For the players right now. That is until I learn and change, but that's my kind of thoughts on the right now.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah, I mean, it's something I wrestle with as a dad and I mean, even for myself, like I've never been good at self-pacing. Like if I, you know, I'm an entrepreneur and if I'm trying to start a company, it's like the odds are so stacked against you. It's like, how can I ever put it down and I'm still working on.
To realizing that if I don't take breaks sometimes, then I cut in a bone in other parts of my life that are, that's not compromisable. Um, I I don't perform at my best in my day job. And and it's not good for anybody. It's not good for the business. It's not good for my family. It's not good for my health.
Right? And then same thing with kids, right? It's like, it. On the one hand, like my, you know, for us, [00:56:00] my son, I mean, hockey's his most serious by far, but every summer for a month he goes away to regular overnight camp. And then we get these photos, there's no phones, which is awesome. But then we get these photos, you know, it's like they send photographer around campus and then they like use AI to, when it's your kid's face, like you get a notification that your kid's in a photo kind of thing.
And so I don't hear from at all. He mean, might write one letter but uh. But it's like playing basketball, playing volleyball, playing pickleball, playing, right? And so, and meanwhile it's like you get the, you know, you look on Instagram and it's like, showcase this, showcase that showcase this showcase everywhere, right?
And it's like, ah, right. And for a little while I was like, torn up about it. And now I'm realizing one. It's like, let him be a kid. Let him clear his head, let him have fun. And then two, the overall athleticism, like the stuff he's learning in other sports is just gonna make him better at hockey anyways.
Right. And like, look, my kid, I mean, I'm not suggesting he's on the serious path or anything but even just in terms of his own development it end, you know, I think the break and the variety is really beneficial but every, everyone needs to figure it out for themselves. Right. And I would never [00:57:00] judge someone that did only one.
And I would never judge that played three competitively. It's like, I don't know. Everyone's different. Every family's different. Every, every kid is different. Like, you know who who am I to judge?
Tyler Dittmer: E Exactly. There's no exact path for everyone. You gotta just, as a family, you gotta figure it out. And as long as they're. Safe, obviously. And then having fun and learning like what more can you, can you want as a, as a parent. And that's how I feel.
Jason Jacobs: I I wanna I wanna switch gears for one moment and then, and talk and ask you a personal question and then we can jump into. Some feedback on some of my stuff, which I would, I really value from you. And the, the personal question is you're a really talented player development person and you're doing things, at a pretty high level.
And and it seems like if you wanted to, you could aspire to kind of climb the ladder in player development, whatever that means. At the same time, you've shown in some of your life decisions that you know, you greatly value family. Like there's things outside of the game that are uncompromisable to you.
So that brings me an the personal question, which is just when you think [00:58:00] about your own path, what do you aspire for directionally? If it's anything different than what you're already doing, and it might be just more of the same, like That's a perfectly good answer too.
Tyler Dittmer: I, I've been thinking on this a lot lately, kind of what could be next. Things are going really well here at the academy and there's nothing wrong with sticking or doing the same thing forever by all means. But I feel like I am developing some really good coaches here that could. Take on my role here.
And so what would next be for me? I have no idea, obviously, like the normal answer would be to just move up to like the WHL, the NHL and NHL. But I miss my family so much when I'm not there. I don't know, like I was just around a lot of NHL guys at the Hockey Canada and there's just a lot of talk about being away for so long.
I just, I don't know if I could do that. And sustain it. I really don't. If there was a way for me to just be contracted in and come out like [00:59:00] once a month or something, that'd be a whole nother conversation. But if I had to give you an answer right now, it would be more on the video side and the mentorship side with players.
I've really connected. With them and their mental strengths and then their hockey IQ and, and all that. I've gotten really into that and I've seen some huge strides with that. So that'd probably be where I'd go next. Taking on more clients that way, which opens up more ice times for my coaches here.
Jason Jacobs: So a few follow ups on that. One is on the one hand, you don't wanna travel 'cause you wanna be around for family, but on the other. It seems like, and this is just me from the cheap seats, that you get a lot of energy from being on the ice. And I don't know if this is true, but I can imagine it might get less energy from being in front of a keyboard.
How do you think about that tension? Because the video guys probably sit a lot at a desk and don't skate as much.
Tyler Dittmer: That's a very good point, and I couldn't agree more. Being on the ice is, it's a thing that I was, that I was born to do. I know that and I love it, and I've already been on the ice for over seven hours today. [01:00:00] And I feel great.
Jason Jacobs: I don't think I've even been up for seven hours
Tyler Dittmer: I know I just know that the difference I've made just with conversations with players in a setting where they can be open has changed their lives a lot, and I feel like I could bring that to a lot of players.
I would love to stay on the ice too. Don't get me wrong, if I could work with those players on the ice as well, that'd be best case scenario. But just in the short term future. Is from your question is I could see myself doing more of that for now until I miss the ice and get back out there.
Jason Jacobs: Two last questions before we switch to my stuff. One is, tell me about the hockey candidate thing. 'cause that sounds like, I know from talking to you offline that that sounds like a big deal, but for listeners, tell us about it.
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah, so a hockey candidate, they've created the first ever in any sport, a master's coaching program. So the players or the coaches, sorry, had to go through the original certification to be a skill hockey, kinda certified skills coach. And then we apply to go back in it. And you go during the [01:01:00] same week as the first delegates, but now you're more in charge.
Uh, you get to lead a group of first years, you get to do presentations for all the coaches. Uh, now we have some after tasks. So it would be developing a whole season plan, mentoring a first year delegate, and goes on, go to the national camp create like a whole hockey association plan. So just really being able to showcase how you develop athletes and hockey players.
And then, which I love is the helping develop coaches to hopefully have them feel comfortable asking questions and being open to, to feedback. As we mentioned before in the round table. So it's a new program. This is only the second year, so there's only been once everyone's done this year, only 12 gone through it.
And it was an honor to be there.
Jason Jacobs: It sounds like an amazing honor. And then the other question I wanted to ask you was, I forget if we talked about it earlier, but what are you doing with Matt Calvert on the agency side? I mean, he's, how I first [01:02:00] got introduced to you. I know you guys are tight. But yeah, what, uh, how much of that agency work is taking up your time and what are you doing there?
Tyler Dittmer: So I'm a consultant for the agency Cal Sports. A lot of his players are local in Brandon or Winnipeg, so whenever. I train every single one of them that's not in Winnipeg. And we have another consultant in Winnipeg. So him and I speak for sure weekly about how they're progressing. A few of them are even in my mentorship program, so our, we're very, very close in that regard.
And he doesn't video with the guys. I do video with the guys and it's mainly just keeping tabs on their, on their summer development and what they need now with one of those guys getting drafted. Um, it's gonna help having an NHL team letting us know what they want and just relay it that way. So, I speak with Matt a lot.
I trained Matt right before he retired, so we're, we've been, we used to do triathlons together as kids, so we've known each other for a long time. I,
Jason Jacobs: Nice. Okay, now let's switch gears and [01:03:00] you, so three o'clock, that's your hard stop.
Tyler Dittmer: yeah.
Jason Jacobs: Okay, so we got 29 minutes here to, uh, roll up our sleeves and get after it. One of the things I've observed is that you know, we talked about the too many games and not enough skills, and then we talked about the over rotating and it's like individual skills up the wazoo, but then.
It's like if you just focus on, if you just focus on them in a vacuum and you're, and also like with cones or with a shooting mat, right? Then it doesn't necessarily translate to gameplay. And we talked about how kids. Aren't watching as much hockey and they're seeing like clips of highlights versus full games and how you're developing a bunch of really skilled individual players, but especially with the privatization, at least here in New England of club sports, right.
Where you know, you cut at the bottom and bring it at the top and there's a lot of, it's transient, right? The teams don't tend to stick together. Right. Then there's a lot less of like, cohesive team units, right? And there's just a more, a collection of. Individuals. And and I've also been finding that some of these higher end [01:04:00] player development people like you, right?
It's like you start with video and video is invaluable. And through that you can uncover insights about high frequency, high failure rate, types of things that might not be obvious to the naked eye, but when you look at the data, it jumps out at you, right? And then you can isolate those and find game-like situations.
To work on them. And I'm still trying to understand like how controversial that is versus like, does everyone think that? Is that obvious? Right. Um, but it just seems so intuitive to me. Right. And and it's not a lot of what I'm seeing happen at the youth level, right? At the youth level, you know, there's not a lot of time for video and none of the skills coaches have access to the video anyways.
And everyone's just getting the kids really skilled up. But. Am I working on the right stuff for my kid? Right? There's like, am I having my kid work on the right stuff or should they be doing other stuff and I might do video, but then the video. So anyways, how do you better connect those dots?
Right? Um, and one of the things I've been looking at is, well, gosh, yeah, there's, there's player development coaches that connect those dots for a [01:05:00] handful of players, but it's so intensive with the off ice and the on ice, right? That they have to charge a lot of money. And the only people that can justify it or, and can get the most bang from it are like the higher end, like the D one, the pro, right?
But there's kind of that next level down, you know, maybe the next few levels down, right? That could really benefit from it, but they're not gonna pay that much money. But could you train AI to take on more of that on the video side to help better figure out? What to work on and then find clips of examples of you doing that thing wrong, right?
And then find clips of NHL players doing it right. And then have a development plan where either you hop on the ice or you have a network of coaches that hop on the ice, or you get a writeup that you can hand to a coach that doesn't work with you, so that it better connects the dots between what you do off the ice and what you need to do based on what you're doing in games.
So I'm gonna shut up, but I'd love for you to just react to that.
Tyler Dittmer: So I love that. And since we spoke last and we talked about like a baseline skillset, what needs to happen, I've actually spoken to my coaches [01:06:00] about developing. Developing that here, like what's our baseline for every fundamental skill we need to get them there. Like before any other thing. Their baselines need to be good enough that while the same time always talking about hockey, not just like you have to bend your knees, knees over toes.
It's, I talk about when you're back checking, why are you back checking. Oh, we turn the puck over. Okay. Are you trying to save the game for your team? If you're trying to save the game for your team and you care about it, how fast are you gonna skate? Well, let's get you there. And like, now they're, they're in this situation, they're in the environment and in their mind, and, and they'll give you a little bit more.
So I love the baseline skill idea, use that, but always teaching hockey and what you said about the high frequency, high failure, like that is amazing that it is a bit of a shortcut to get kids better, quicker, but it's, you need to have the right set of eyes on it. Because you've had it before where you [01:07:00] thought your son didn't have a good game, and then the coach said it was his best game of the year.
And it's like, well, who's right? Who's wrong? And just finding that trust within coaches of like, this is what they need to do. This is what they need to be able to make a play under. And all those little details will get the kid better, and that's in the end. If they can get better at hockey, I promise you that they'll have more fun.
They'll have more fun, they'll learn more, and everyone's gonna be happy. But just trying to decide on what those are and the right conversation with the right people. It's, it's very high frequency. It's very similar to all the players and just having that data, like I love the idea of, of how you wanna break it down with ai, finding clips of them doing it wrong per se, finding players do it right now, how can they implement that right away?
I have ideas on that and. Something that I'll say right now that I've had a lot of people agree with, and a lot of people like really confused of when I played [01:08:00] hockey, my best skill was hockey iq. And everyone's like, oh, you just scrimmage on the outdoor rinks. I said, I did that, but that was just me taking slappers.
My hockey IQ developed, and this is a hundred percent truth from playing video games playing NHL, and I'd always play on the hardest mode against the computer because I don't think it was AI back then. But the program that they had, it played real hockey, it played NHL systems. It played if you cheated, if you did something wrong, you got scored on.
So you needed to make proper hockey plays. And those plays happened all the time. Ray, when I got to about the U 18 level, it was like a cheat code where I didn't have to strain my body, but like learn the game if I go this way. What did the computer do? Well, he did that well. Actual players were doing the same thing.
So I was able to develop my hockey IQ a lot that way. I've told it to a few of my clients, like younger kids and parents thought I was crazy to tell 'em to play video games, but they couldn't believe, like they couldn't win a game. They were not even close [01:09:00] to beating a computer. And I explained it 'cause they're playing real hockey.
So you gotta figure out how to even get a scoring chance. So that is one little thing I wanted to talk about with you and your thoughts on that. But that was one way I had a really good way to develop and it was fun. Don't get me wrong, had a lot of, a lot of good times playing against a computer, and I'm sure now I haven't looked at it lately, but AI might even be in the NHL games and like it would adjust.
So I think that would be a dream come true for players to develop hockey IQ and play video games.
Jason Jacobs: Huh. Interesting. Yeah, it's almost like a like flight simulator for pilots.
Tyler Dittmer: It's a hundred percent, a hundred and it's just like, yeah, you'll learn more by doing, but sometimes hockey's too much or like bus
Jason Jacobs: you played around with, uh, you know how like Oculus has those goggles and there's like the, uh, sense? Have you tried that at all?
Tyler Dittmer: I've tried it. It's, it's pretty good. Pretty cool. But like, it's pretty limited, like when you're playing the game five on five and like all of that, like, you have to think like you're at a [01:10:00] bird's eye view, which is great. And, but it is, there's just more reaction in the video game. The Oculus is, it's kind of like very, like simply detailed.
And if you can use that it's a nice little shortcut, but I think playing like a, it's individual as well, that's the, like you, you make maybe one pass in it, but it's still like individually based where playing a game, five on five, you gotta make plays to your teammates. And that's where like kids don't understand that's the too much individual skill is happening where like it's a team game.
So that's where we always have to come back to is like, where's pressure? Where's your teammate? All those little details,
Jason Jacobs: When you watch video, how much of it is I need the stats and once I look at the stats, things will jump out at me. And how much of it is by eye?
Tyler Dittmer: 90% by eye for sure. I like that better because it forces me to pay. Really, really close attention and be dialed where if I had all the stats, I'd [01:11:00] probably know exactly what's gonna happen. I'd like to just like be in it with them and like the energy I bring on the ice. I do like my video sessions are pretty, pretty exciting, I'd say, compared to normal ones and so I do a lot with, I.
Jason Jacobs: Uhhuh and yeah. See that's trickier, right? Because if you said, oh, I look at the data and some non-obvious stuff jumps out from the data, then there's a world where AI could automate the data. And I think some of the like, I mean, I hear that like Sport Logic and 49 ing and some of these you know, in stat right?
Are, you know, that's what they're great at is teeing up the stats so that a coach can look and look at offensive versus defensive zone and zone entries and turnovers and you know, and then they look for. Patterns that, that jump out. But what you're saying is that it's by eye like, I don't know. I don't know how you would, it's like, how it's harder to train a model when, when you can't explain.
Could you write a manual for me to watch a game and see what
Tyler Dittmer: I could, but you gotta remember, my sessions are very [01:12:00] relationship based, so it's open dialogue with my clients, so they're involved in it, where if it was just data, I would just be telling them things the whole time where I, I want them to, to watch and pay attention and figure it out because I make my guys watch games as well.
So when they're watching a hockey game, I want them to like, kind of know what they're looking for instead of just watching it because I told 'em to watch it. I for sure could write a manual for you, but they're both great. Mine's just more collaborative with my client, and if you know what I mean.
Jason Jacobs: Okay, let me ask you a different question. You could build a nice little business serving, pick a number of clients, and then the same way you just spend seven hours on the ice, you could spend seven hours in front of the video, right? How do you add a zero or two zeros or three zeros to the number of clients that you could serve, but still hold your head up high that you're delivering real value?
Tyler Dittmer: It's a great question. I usually, I like to do everything a hundred percent, like you talked about yourself earlier. [01:13:00] When I'm at a certain client base and I'm doing a hundred percent, I'll add one more. I never add more than one, and if, if it even goes down to like 98%. I'll make sure to not add another client until I'm at a hundred and feel like I have extra energy.
So I usually just go one more. Now, my number right now is at nine. I have nine plus my ice times. So obviously if I got rid of half my ice times, I could probably take on. I'd just do one at a time, but I'm sure I could add two more that way.
Jason Jacobs: Right. But then, but like you're talk, so one of the things I'm thinking about is like what you do is great. It's a lot of money, right? And it has to be a lot of money because you put so much into it that you can't take on very many clients, right? And. How do we get what's in your brain? Leverage where it can reach more people and more people could be benefit from it in a way that might not be as good as one-to-one, but will be a lot better than not having access to it.
And I, I don't know the answer, but that's what I'm trying to figure out is, [01:14:00] is there a way to do that because most kids don't have access to this level of instruction and want it. Um, but the families aren't gonna go and pay, 300 bucks for a private or whatever.
Right. Yeah, it just doesn't work. Right. Um, so how, how, how do you better connect the dots between the video and the skills training in a way that isn't just a hundred percent human powered? Because if it's a hundred percent human powered, it's gonna break the bank for most families.
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah. No, that's super interesting. The one thing too, I'm not sure if you've discussed it with, with other people with the app, is teaching hockey now, I don't mean hockey iq, I mean just like sheer facts or like systems, like a lot of players have no idea what a 1, 1 2, 4 check or anything like that.
And actual, just like knowing your hockey. Systems like that I think would be incredibly important for players. So now they can have their shifts in the app. They can see positives of players doing them, some feedback, what system was it, and then some [01:15:00] skills to get better at it. I think that's a, a lot of players don't understand just hockey that way.
Jason Jacobs: And. How important would it be to make sure that the direction that the system was providing didn't contradict what the player was getting from their coach?
Tyler Dittmer: That's perfect. So the coach, every coach I've worked with after I've asked them, they have their systems, they have their, so if, if we could type in your app, let's say, saying like, our coach wants us to do this for check this DZ zone. Can you please show me examples of this? It will, and then you can say, can you show me specific examples of this happening within this system?
Now we're getting like narrowing it down really nicely for the player where they know like what the high frequency event's gonna be so they can work on that before they've even been in this situation getting a little head start. So I think that would be really good for them.
Jason Jacobs: Have you messed around with any of these systems? Like the sport [01:16:00] logics, the ins stats the huddle sports codes, the what am I missing? Lie barn, even.
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah, so we, I use INS stat just through the Brandon Weak Kings at Hockey Canada. They had sport logic. Uh, it was pretty nice. They're, they don't get narrowed down as close as I would like when I type in keywords and, and all that. It gives me too many videos. I want it to be a little bit more specific
Jason Jacobs: What's an example of that?
Tyler Dittmer: if I typed in like strong side. Breakouts, turnovers, it would just be, some of them wouldn't be like actual turnovers. They'd be puck battles, so it would just be like hundreds and hundreds of clips. So just more specific keywords I think would be amazing.
Jason Jacobs: Are you talking about clips that you look for of NHL players that are doing it well that you can show to your players?
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. Got it. Do you keep any, do you have a library of those clips like kind of sorted by category or do [01:17:00] you just go to Sport Logic, for example, and ask it to find them when it's time?
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah. I have to find them when it's time. I don't have the capabilities to store that here yet. We have, I use so many clips from like videoing my ice times with clients that that takes up pretty much all our storage here.
Jason Jacobs: Huh. Yeah. I wonder if there could even be, I mean, I'm just kind of brainstorming here, but even a service where. You could type in what kind of clip you're after, and it would just have all these micro clips and depending on what you want, it'll just tee up just what you want for just the right moment where you can just use that to show a player, like even that seems like it's got value.
Tyler Dittmer: That would be unreal.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. But I don't know. It's hard, you know? It's hard because, so I haven't figured out how to get a license to a Sport Logic or a 49 ing or whatever, because they're all for teams and coaches, and they're all a zillion dollars. Right. If you're just like a practitioner doing it for player development for individuals and you aren't affiliated with a team, it's hard to get your hands on it even.
Tyler Dittmer: I couldn't, I wouldn't be able to unless I was with the weak kings. [01:18:00] Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. That's another thing I'm thinking about is just, you know, centering it around players and families and player development coaches, but centered on the player and their development, and then not just giving you the data and then handing it off to the assistant coach to go work with you on development.
But giving you the data and then giving you a plan, right? But then the inevitable question is how's that gonna work with the skills coaches that actually work with you on the ice, unless this company's also on the ice? And then if it is on the ice, then you just lost all the leverage that you get from digital, which meant you could lower your price, right?
Because human labor's, human labor, right? So, yeah. Again, not answers, just questions.
Tyler Dittmer: Those are tricky ones.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. But it is, it is interest, like when you think about philosophically like starting with video and then personalizing development, is that, I mean, is that just widespread amongst the best player development people or is that like some kind of novel concept?
Tyler Dittmer: It is pretty widespread. A bunch the top. [01:19:00] As soon as you're able to access any of those platforms, it's pretty widespread. Yeah,
Jason Jacobs: Got it. So it, it sounds like what's not as widespread then is just bringing that downstream from an accessibility standpoint, like opening it up for everybody else.
Tyler Dittmer: a hundred percent. That's the thing, holding a lot of, a lot of people back.
Jason Jacobs: Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Well, it's good food for thought. Again, more questions than answers, but it does seem like there's an opportunity there, whether someone could deliver on it in a way that keeps the quality bar high and doesn't break the bank, is the question.
Um, but it seems like nobody's doing it right. Just like who is delivering, the way like for lots of people that would never get a private black car, like they'll get a private black car for the Uber ride to the airport. Right? Um, yeah. And so who's kind of doing that for high-end player development?
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah.
Jason Jacobs: Cool. Any suggestions for me as I'm out in the wild trying to get smart on this stuff? Any [01:20:00] books I should read? Any sites I should check out? Uh, like what? Uh. Yeah. Um, like how should I get closer to the action?
Tyler Dittmer: I really think there was a presentation on the coach's site a long time ago about hockey IQ development, playing NHL. So if that's still on there, I I would definitely check that out. I know you saw my presentation on there. As for if you could, I'm not sure, I don't have like a book or an exact site.
Coach site would be fine, but like learning all the systems.
Of coaches. I think that's such a valuable tool for players to know because if a coach has to explain it to their whole team and no one's understanding it, but a couple players do well, who do you think is gonna get more ice time off the bat?
It's just like a way for them to earn a coach's trust. Coach trusts you, coach plays you more again, now we're having fun now, or now we're getting better. So I think just diving into all the potential different systems that coaches run, I think would be huge. And no [01:21:00] one's really talking about that right now.
They just get it taught to them after the fact. No one said you couldn't learn it before. So those would be my two.
Jason Jacobs: I've had people come on the show that are like, you know what? You can do all kinds of development under the sun, but at the end of the day like you're just polishing a turd kind of thing. Like, uh, like you either were born with it or you're not. Right? And then there's other people that say, I'm so confident in my development ability, you could give me any lump of clay and I'll get them to play the game at a pretty high level.
How do you think about it?
Tyler Dittmer: So I've seen both here at the Academy. Like obviously everyone here does the same overall model on the ice. Everyone, and we've had players become phenomenal and we've had players under the exact same situation, not improve much. They all have fun because it's a fun environment, but it's. So different for everyone that I can't tell you my plan's gonna work for everyone.
'cause I've seen it and I can't tell you that some players just won't get better no matter what, because I've [01:22:00] seen that too. So I think again, it comes down to just what, what works best for players. I'm trying to develop something that I know can like, do that, but I don't think it exists. So that's kind of where I stand on it.
Jason Jacobs: I mean, it, it reminds me of entrepreneurship where it's it's like if you can't, you hear the, like the narratives, like if you can't sell, you're never gonna make it as an entrepreneur. Or like, if you don't write code, don't even try to build a tech company or Right. And then it's like. Some of the biggest winners inevitably don't fit whatever mold is like the mold of the day.
Right. You know, you've got like a dorky accountant looking guy who, who, you know who like can't sell his way out of a paper bag and barely doesn't, you know, barely speaks, but like builds a monster company that blows everybody away and raise less capital to do it than anyone else.
Right. Or, you know, so it's like. It's like, or it's like you need multiple founders. It's like, well, that solo founder just did it. Or it's like, you, you know, it's like, it's, there's like fads, you know? It's like the fad is that it's this, or the fad is that, it's that. And at the end of the day I'm kind of with you that it's like, everything, everyone's different and [01:23:00] like, sometimes you just can't put your finger on it, and they just kind of navigate their way through the minefield and like surprise everybody.
Tyler Dittmer: I couldn't, couldn't agree more. Everyone's, everyone's unique and it's beautiful and, and I think that's just how it's always gonna be.
Jason Jacobs: Well, for anyone listening, Tyler, that is inspired by your work and your approach, I know I am. Who do you wanna hear from? Are there you know, do you have any asks of, of listeners or, um, or prompts for people that should reach out to you?
Tyler Dittmer: Yeah, I would. I would love to get feedback. I'm so open to any sort of feedback, positive, or if you think I need to change something or liked what I said or have any questions, just please reach out. I'll get back to you as soon as I can on. Uh, Instagram's probably the best way. Um, just dimer, WCH is my handle.
And then if you have any, if you want to email me, it's just dimer@wchhockey.ca and I look forward to any questions.
Jason Jacobs: Great. Well, Tyler, thanks again for coming on the show. Sorry about the technical difficulties and, uh. [01:24:00] Would love to keep the discussion going as, uh, as you progress and as I progress, it sounds like one way or another you're heading to some awesome places. So keep up the good
Tyler Dittmer: Perfect. Well, thank you very much for having me. And that was. One of my favorite chats I've ever had, so thank you kindly.
Jason Jacobs: Thank you for tuning in to the next, next. I hope you enjoyed it. If you did and you haven't already, you can subscribe from your favorite podcast player, whether it's Apple, Spotify, or any of the others. We also send a newsletter every week on the journey itself. The new content that we publish, the questions that we're wrestling with, how the platform itself is coming along, that we're planning to build for player development, and where we could use some help.
And you can find that at the next next.substack.com. Thanks a lot and see you soon.