In this episode of Puck Academy, host Jason Jacobs speaks with Paul Cannata, a renowned hockey coach with over 30 years of experience in NCAA and New England Prep hockey. Coach Cannata shares his journey from assistant coach at Northeastern University to head coach at Milton Academy, where he transformed a struggling hockey program into a top contender. The conversation covers various aspects of hockey player development, parenting, and the evolution of the sport. Coach Cannata provides valuable insights into the challenges and benefits of multi-sport participation, the impact of privatization in sports, and the balance between specialization and being a well-rounded athlete. He emphasizes the importance of creating practice environments that mimic game conditions and the significant role of athletic IQ in player development. The episode concludes with reflections on Cannata's transition to a less structured lifestyle post-retirement and his ongoing contributions to the hockey community.
In this episode of Puck Academy, host Jason Jacobs interviews Coach Paul Cannata, a seasoned hockey coach with over 30 years of experience in NCAA and New England Prep hockey. They discuss the changes in the sport over the years, player development paths, the balance between sports and academics, and the pressures of specialization in youth sports. Coach Cannata shares insights on the importance of multi-sport participation for overall athletic development, the impact of privatized rinks, and finding the right balance as parents. They also explore the future of hockey, including challenges like inclusivity, individual skills training, and the evolving landscape of the game. The episode offers valuable lessons not just about hockey but about life and personal growth.
00:00 Introduction to Puck Academy
00:15 Meet Coach Paul Cannata
00:26 Coach Cannata's Early Career
00:50 Transforming Milton Academy's Hockey Program
01:19 Personal Reflections and Wisdom
01:39 In-Depth Discussion with Coach Cannata
01:55 The Evolution of Youth Hockey
02:08 Parenting and Coaching Insights
05:49 The Changing Landscape of Youth Sports
14:15 Balancing Sports and Life
16:49 The Importance of Multi-Sport Participation
20:28 Navigating the Pressures of Specialization
30:06 Balancing Professional and Personal Life
33:12 Challenges of Modern Education and Sports
33:46 Balancing Parenting and Independence
34:38 Navigating Academic and Athletic Opportunities
36:11 The Pressure of Competitive Sports
38:11 Choosing the Right School for Your Child
38:57 The Challenges of High School Sports
41:39 The Role of Family Decisions in Sports
43:30 Changes in the Hockey Landscape
45:27 Development and Training in Hockey
47:32 Inclusivity and Athlete Development
50:27 The New England Hockey Model
53:31 The Importance of Practice Environment
57:50 Reflections on a Coaching Career
59:55 Parting Thoughts and Final Reflections
[Jason] (0:00 - 2:36)
Welcome to Puck Academy, a show about how hockey players grow on and off the ice. I'm Jason Jacobs, the host. And each week I talk with players, coaches, and experts shaping the future of player development.
Today's guest is Paul Cannata. Coach Cannata has more than 30 years of coaching and playing experience across NCAA and New England Prep Hockey. Early in his coaching career, he served as an assistant coach at Northeastern University for six seasons in Hockey East.
And in 2003 or around that time, he took over as the head coach for Boys Varsity Hockey at Milton Academy, where he spent the next 20 years. Now, during his time there, he inherited a program that was in poor shape, something like a three and 27 record in his first season. And over the 20 years, Coach Cannata succeeded in turning the program into a perennial top 10 New England Prep contender.
Under his leadership, Milton made five New England elite eight tournament experiences. They won the New England Championship in 2011 and reached the finals again in 2016. They captured three independent school lead titles.
And in 2023, Milton won the Flood-Marr tournament for the first time since 1982. Now, I was excited for this one. I've known Coach Cannata for a while, and he's always struck me as someone with a lot of wisdom around the game of hockey for sure, but also around being a parent and just around life.
But most of our discussions have been in passing when I see him in the ranks or when I see him at the gym. So I was so thrilled to have the chance to just get into a good long form discussion with him and dig deep into some of these nuanced topics that, honestly, some casual banter and passing just doesn't do justice to. And this conversation does not disappoint.
We get into a whole bunch of thorny topics around the sport of hockey, how it's changed over the years, the development path for kids, both around hockey and athletics, but also around academics. And around life, we talk about parenting. We talk about what it's like to be a retired guy now, what he's doing with his time and how he looks back fondly on all the decades that he spent in this magical sport without further ado, Coach Cannata.
Welcome in the show. Thank you. Good morning.
Well, this is strange because usually when we talk in debate about about you, hockey, it's in the gym locker room. So it's strange to be doing it in front of computers and microphones here.
[Paul] (2:36 - 2:41)
Yeah, you got to be careful. People are not going to be quite sure what they just logged on to here. Yeah.
[Jason] (2:43 - 3:28)
Well, I'm grateful for you making the time. I've been trying to pin you down for a while. You've just got such an interesting perspective on the game and as someone who grew up playing the game.
And now is trying to navigate both the game, but also candidly just being a parent, not just around sports, but it's like the whole landscape of everything has changed so much. And, you know, the oldest first one through the shoot, as you've said, you know, kind of gripping the stick tight, right? It's, I just have so many questions for you and so much that I can learn from you and and listeners as well.
So I'm grateful, especially in your retirement here for you to make a time and come on and share some wisdom with us.
[Paul] (3:29 - 3:36)
Yeah, I got to get a tea time here in about an hour, so be it retired. I didn't know it was pickleball or golf today. Those are the big decisions.
[Jason] (3:36 - 3:42)
You're just showing off now. You're just rubbing salt in the wounds of all the working men and women who are running around from link to link to link.
[Paul] (3:43 - 3:48)
Well, I'm also running around. I say running. I'm going to be walking around to a few rinks.
Yeah.
[Jason] (3:48 - 3:50)
I mean, you're an empty nester now too, right?
[Paul] (3:50 - 3:57)
You know, it varies on the day, but yeah, we're at a certain stage of life, I guess you could describe it as.
[Jason] (3:58 - 4:32)
Well, I've heard you come on plenty of shit. Well, not plenty of shows, but some shows and talk about your background in the sport and coming up in the game and growing up in West Roxbury and RL and Hamilton and, you know, community rink. I mean, we could use our whole time just talking about your history.
Maybe maybe a better starting point so that we can maximize our time here is. Talk about your experience in the game going up and maybe just reflect a bit on how that compares to the state of the game today.
[Paul] (4:32 - 4:40)
Yeah, I think some would say that might as well been, you know, when the city of Boston was under siege by the British, you know, in 1700s.
[Jason] (4:41 - 4:44)
You're only a few years older than me, so I can't make you much fun.
[Paul] (4:45 - 5:48)
Yeah, roughly 250 years old, but no, going into an MDC rink in 1972 73 youth hockey. Yeah, obviously very, very different. I think also growing, I always say I'm forever grateful for going to high school and college in the 80s.
I was thinking, you know, in hindsight, it was a great period. Obviously pre technology, pre pre a lot of things, but we did have the VCIs came on and MTV came on and cable TV came on and CNN sort of anyways, but, but it was a great period. But here we are in 2025 and life is different for the young people.
Life is different expectation of coaches and hockey programs and sports programs, different expectations for schools and teachers. And then obviously the delivery of the information, you know, is different. Here we are.
[Jason] (5:49 - 6:09)
Yeah, I mean, maybe before we even get to the hockey part, I mean, growing up, you got out of school, you got on your bike, and you play in the neighborhood. Now you get out of school and you probably get carded to three different structure things before you start your homework, right? How do you feel about that as a as a coach, as a teacher, as a dad?
[Paul] (6:10 - 9:14)
Yeah, well, even you know, going back to to our mom going out. What? I'm going out.
Where you going? Oh, I'll be back later. Yeah, be home by dark.
That was it. And then, you know, you look back to you didn't really know where you were going out to. And then when it comes to sports, I think we're, you know, growing up in West Roxbury, I was probably going out to do something.
It was it was stick ball. It was to hand touch. It was tackle.
It was street hockey. It was something that we were doing throwing a ball off the wall and cutting up a tennis ball. And yes, now, again, the delivery is different.
The experience is different. In some ways, obviously it's better. And maybe in some ways it presents some challenges.
But I'm on the jump three steps ahead. I was over in Dorchester earlier this morning playing hockey with some of the old guys and some not so old guys. But I once Bill Cahill was a great coach.
Some people who might be listening might know all of them as brother Peter has raised his family in Dorchester. A great family originally from Central Mass. Well, Billy died of a heart attack as the assistant coach at RPI about 20 years ago.
They had a fundraising event in the Dorchester MDC rank or an deposit MDC rank. And so four teams of guys that played. And I remember jumping out there on a Sunday afternoon and you just mixed in.
And some of the guys really good players played some levels of professional hockey. A bunch of the guys played college hockey top division one players blah blah blah. And a bunch of the guys didn't play high school hockey.
What I remember is all of the guys could play hockey. And not only could they all play hockey, but there were guys out there who did not even play high school hockey. Who made plays?
Who had hands? And maybe the skating wasn't so great because they didn't play a lot of actual hockey. But there was a lot of plays being made.
I remember sitting on the bench and talking to some of the guys, I'm like, wow. If we could put some of what you guys have into what some of what these younger kids have now, you got a player. But I think what I took away from that is all those guys grew up in the fashion that we're talking about.
They played something every day basketball, baseball, et cetera. So in in hockey, a lot of street hockey, a lot of pond hockey, they didn't play necessarily organized hockey, some of those guys. But what was amazing is they weren't far off those who played call it a high level, a good level of college hockey.
Nowadays, you just wouldn't you wouldn't see that. But jumping, you know, four steps ahead of what I think we're going to talk about. I always fashion back to that day and just watching, you know, the hockey being played.
[Jason] (9:15 - 9:29)
And when you say, you know, the guys coming up, if they could have more of what those guys have that you played with, what is it that you think the players coming up today are missing?
[Paul] (9:29 - 11:30)
Well, I don't know that the player, you know, I don't mean to come out like in a negative light, but I think what what's interesting is, is those guys had a feel for hockey, they have a feel for hockey and they have a feel for sports. I had a feel for making plays. And if you played street hockey two to ten times a week, you're you're going to be pretty good at hockey.
So your hands are there, your shootings there. And if you're blending street hockey with basketball, like we didn't play soccer when I was young, much lacrosse wasn't around, but basketball street hockey versions of football were omnipresent. So I just think that that feeling of space and timing for some of them incredibly creative, no look passes, drop passes, you know, they had that.
So I think nowadays you could have a player that can skate really well that doesn't have necessarily that feel for the game, the vision, the creativity, maybe the athletic sense. And again, I'm jumping three steps ahead, but but oftentimes now with groups or players, it's some of the challenges aren't in my eyes necessarily even a hockey challenge. You would say to them, like, if you're playing two on two basketball in your driveway, what would you do?
This isn't necessarily hockey. This is just two players and two players or three players and three players or two players and one players or two people. What would you do?
What would you do offensively? Or what would you do defensively? And I just remember that day, I was looking at these guys.
I'm like, Hey, did you, did you play in BCI? No, I played freshman year and then I, you know, we didn't have enough money or whatever happened or I got cut. And I just say, wow, you're, you're a pretty good hockey player.
So it's, it has stuck with me.
[Jason] (11:30 - 12:35)
I think about that too. One of the challenges is, is that the, because everyone's got their kids so over scheduled, if you want to step off the train, you look around and none of that infrastructure free play is there. Like you look out in the neighborhood, like I look out of my neighborhood and all I see is waves directing cars down my street at 50 miles an hour, right?
And there aren't any kids playing, right? Because the kids are all off at, you know, Russian math or whatever, right? And, and then what's the alternative to scheduling stuff?
It's sitting all on the phone, right? Like scrolling Instagram, scrolling Snapchat, like, you know, bullying kids online, like getting yourself in trouble. Like, and so it's like, all right, well, I guess the better alternative is to, is to keep them busy is crazy because then it keeps them out of trouble, but then it's like at, at what price.
So, so in some ways I want to go back, but in other ways, like, like wanting to go back to a world that doesn't exist anymore is just a, I mean, it's, it's just dreaming. It's not reality.
[Paul] (12:36 - 14:15)
I think what we can do is, well, the only thing we can do, and we're talking about coaches is you can control what you can control. So with coaches, youth coaches, prep school coaches, college coaches, you can control if you have the ice from four to five or six to seven. You do control the activities during that hour.
So as a youth coach, okay, they're not getting, they didn't play street hockey all afternoon before they came to the rink. So let's provide them with the opportunity to play hockey, and maybe it's not perfect, but in many ways it is perfect. They're there, they're there to play.
They signed up to play hockey. When your kid is four or five or six or seven, you sign them up to play hockey. So let's allow them when they come to the rink to play hockey.
And then, okay, now you start slicing a dice on what does that look like? And it doesn't mean that you're not going to do some skating activities or some specific stick handling or passing skill development, call what you want. But within that, there's going to be an opportunity to play for a lot of reasons.
One, be in physical health. Kids didn't sign up to come and stand in line and leave with a cold head. But that's something we can control.
You know, you're a little league coach as well, or soccer coach. Give the kids an opportunity to play and allow them to have some version of the experience. Maybe that we had.
[Jason] (14:15 - 15:36)
I've heard you talk on other shows about how one of the reasons you think that the sport has gone more year round is just the economics of. The rinks being privatized and needing to pay the bills. One thing I wrestle with as a parent is in the long term, multi sport is great.
You don't like kid to burn out. You don't want them to have low use injuries. You want them to follow their passion.
You want them to be well rounded. You want them to like, you know, have lots of experiences at an early age. At the same time, like some of my best memories in life are from high school hockey, right?
And actually the landscape to even play in high school, let alone in college, let alone in pros, right? Is getting harder and harder such that there's a lot of pressure on kids and families to keep up. And especially as the lines blur between club and prep, right?
I mean, you have like prep schools, for example, might bias towards kids that come from a certain club. In order to get on that club, you need to be the best, not in the long term, but like during trial season, right? And so how do you balance that as a parent?
How do you balance that as a kid in terms of best for long term with also like needing to just like stay on the train practically?
[Paul] (15:37 - 20:27)
Yeah. Well, it's a free country and I've said a million times, both countries are free countries. Canada is a free country, US is a free country.
We can, another thing we control is we can choose how to spend our free time as a family. And that's up to everybody. But I guess the conversation oftentimes comes back to, okay, we're talking about elite quote unquote elite player development.
But even with that, okay, I always say, even if your goal is to be the best hockey player in Massachusetts, the country, the world, great. It's a worthy endeavor. Nobody will ever tell me that along the way playing or convince me, I should say that playing basketball, playing baseball, playing football, playing tennis, playing golf, all of those surfing bellyboarding for kids, the beach is a natural playground, a pond is a natural playground, jumping off a dock is a natural playground.
Skateboarding, nobody will ever tell me that or convince me that those activities aren't going to help you be the best athlete that you can be. So I think really also we can control when a kid is 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, week just for argument's sake, stop there. You do not need to focus on one sport.
Okay, now it's a free country. There's worse things people can do if you, you know, if it's golf and it's Tiger Woods or it's, you know, Sarita, whatever. That it's not a bad thing.
But I think just in general, when you look at the history of the development of our quote unquote better athletes, and that includes just better high school athletes. The athlete will follow the body. The athlete will follow the person.
To be an athlete, you have to be athletic. I think those are accepted maxims in this world. So that's all possible.
Yes, when you reach the pinch point of 13, 14, 15, it is difficult unless you have a helicopter. But even if you have a helicopter, if you're trying to play hockey and baseball at a good level, it's hard. Hockey in lacrosse, it becomes hard.
That's where the business of sport now is intersecting because lacrosse used to be purely a spring sport in New England. It was like a nine week sport. Now it's a 12 month sport.
Soccer used to be a fall sport. Now it's a 12 month sport. Hockey used to be the winter.
The MDC ranks, the state ranks, most of the ranks opened around Halloween. Now we have ranks open 12 months a year. And I don't begrudge them because people have put a lot of money into those facilities.
The upside is we have access to ice 12 months a year. To play hockey, there's a lot worse things. 13 year olds could be doing in the summer than going to a rink for an hour or two.
Baseball obviously used to be sort of a spring early summer sport. Now we have indoor facilities. We have clubs.
They jump on planes. They travel. They play.
That has helped the level of our New England baseball player. But the early years, yeah, I mean, I've taught. I've been red.
I've met people 35 years, whatever it's been. My own observation of kids. They're going to benefit.
And they're also going to benefit from music. They're going to benefit from English class. They're going to benefit from exposure to coding and all of it.
The development of the person. The other thing I'll mention now too is, sorry, the other I will mention is I think people would be surprised how smart the better players are. You know, I think maybe it's older.
Oh, dumb hockey players. These better players. They're bright.
They're bright. They always have been. Really.
You look, I don't know. Ray Burke very well at all. But a very seasoned person and a very, the feel that he has Sydney Crosby, a very seasoned person.
The feel that he has of a lot of things. Impressive. You don't get that good without a lot.
[Jason] (20:27 - 21:16)
Given that not just in sport, but as you were just mentioning in music, in the arts, in whatever your pursuit is, everything is moving. There's all this pressure towards specialization. How do you think about being a generalist and the pressure towards specialization?
And what advice do you have for families today trying to navigate between those? And I mean, granted, you might just say each other own. It's a free country.
Like, you know, do choose the path that works best for you. But I mean, especially coming from a place like Milton that has so many different activities and breeds such well around the kids yet has such great specialization. Like, how do you have both of those without just breaking?
[Paul] (21:18 - 24:24)
Well, there's a lot of players now that so maybe I, you know, dads who are now 40 years old or 32 years old or some of them are 40 something years old that I coast years ago that I run into or that reach out and say, hey, you know, my kids six or my kids nine and some are like, what's going on out here? This is nuts. Yeah, you're right.
It is. Good luck. But I always usually say to like, first of all, you'll, you'll figure it out because you're, you're smart and you've been through it yourself and you'll be able to sense what's right, what's probably not right.
And you'll, you'll navigate it. The other thing I've always believed to those that any player could have done, let's just say 20% less. The outcome would not be any different.
Okay. Brian Boyle and Corey Schneider were just on NHL network, you know, so those guys are doing great. By the way, talk about guys who are incredibly bright and articulate.
I remember Corey as a young kid. I don't know if he even spoke, but now he's, he's unbelievable. Just take those two, for example, you know, Brian Boyle, he was a good athlete as a kid.
Obviously he had some length. It went to Saint Sebastian's. If he did 20, 20% more, would, would his life have been different?
I don't believe it would. I think you have certain particular skills and abilities and potential that, as long as you're in a reasonable situation, you will reach your potential. And I think, you know, we learn a lot from plants.
So, you know, another great expression, I think this is the Buddhist expression in the spring. It will be growth. So, for all the hockey families out here right now in November that are doing all sorts of things.
In the spring, it will be growth. How much growth? What that exactly is going to look like?
We don't know. But what does a plant need? Plant needs some water, not too much.
Plant needs some sunlight, not too much. A plant needs some oxygen. I'm not sure what the too much or too little is in that world.
But if a plant has that, it's going to grow. And if it's meant to be 10 feet tall, it'll be 10 feet tall. If in that plant's DNA, it's not meant to be 10 feet tall.
If you water it too much, you're going to cause a problem. So, a lot of this, to a certain extent, is out of our control. I mean, you and I debated that a little bit about a week ago.
We don't control everything. And I'm not sure in some cases if we control anything in any domain.
[Jason] (24:24 - 25:30)
I wrestle with this topic. So, I mean, it's hard for me to, I can debate it, but it's almost just playing devil's advocate with myself because I could argue both sides. But I can't help but notice as I navigate and talk to all these people that have played the game for a long time at a really high level, right, that you have players who are third-generation NHLers who like have the physical attributes, have the mindset, have the, you like it was kind of like truly in their blood.
And then you have other players who like overcame all odds and like, not only did no one else think they could do it, but it never even caused their mind that they could do it, right? And who by just sheer will and scrapping and clung without any of the stuff, right, found a way to get there, right? And so, yeah, I guess how do you reconcile those two, the fact that, you know, kind of, you know, 80% of it is what you have versus these these outlier stories of people that don't seem to have any of it and still find a way.
[Paul] (25:31 - 26:57)
Yeah, well, there's a couple of things we do know, too. There's about six billion people walking around this planet, not a single one of them that I'm aware of has the same fingerprint. Not a single one of them has the exact same DNA, even identical twins.
So we know that. What we also know, you and I could take the SAT or test or GRE, MCAS, whatever. You and I could get the exact same score.
So that means you and I are the same, right? No, we could, we got the same score or close to the same score. How did we get to that point?
What is our temperament? What is our view? What is our processing speed?
We might have got the same score. I finished the test 30 minutes before you finish the test. Or you finish the test an hour before me.
We got the same score. So my own journey, you know, I started coaching 1990, AIC, Gary Wright, Larry O'Donnell, graduate assistant, right out of Hamilton College. A great experience was going to get a.
Just showed up at the rink.
[Jason] (26:58 - 27:01)
Just asked for found your way to the office. Introduced yourself.
[Paul] (27:02 - 29:57)
Yeah. So tie off Mass Mutual. It worked in Mass Mutual.
I've killed it. I think about that every now and then. And I, you know, hey, for me, that was my journey.
I spent the morning at Mass Mutual. I think I was going to go into sales and stopped in. So, but that was the beginning of quote unquote coaching.
I'd say it was about four or five, six years later when it started to dawn at me. Like I'm working with these groups. Wherever it was or whatever team it was.
A group of forwards, a group of D, whatever. And I'm giving them all basically the same information and they're doing the same activities. What I can see is we're getting very different results within the group.
So why is, why is this? You know, that led me on a journey sort of into the brain and learning and teaching and temperament and feelings. And you realize that I think any teacher out there would, would obviously second this that.
And it, and it's all fluid. There's no, even if, okay, you've started two or three months and you've got one of the, let's just say one of the players and one of the students is, is in the caboose. We don't know how that train ride's going to end.
You know, that player that's in the caboose in November could end up being up front at the end of the season. Or that particular year you're in the caboose, but three years later, you're in the front of the train. And, and the same that the players that are in the front of the train or the students that are in the front of the train.
And, and this is going to continue really all through our lives. And I think for whatever reason, a lot of us struggle with the fact that it's not clear. It's not more concrete.
It's not more definable. You know, often I think I told you to talk to groups of coaches and some of them are carpenters. And you can say, okay, well, you're a carpenter and you can look at a particular job.
And then you can make a list of what you need and you can get it. And then you have a sense of how long it's going to take you. And, and you know what, after a day, you've built what you want to build.
Where is working with people? It's, it's, and day to day. I just watched a little golf over the weekend, Rory McElroy, a little hard for me to say.
You know, he, he flubbed the shot like a, it was an iron shot that went 30 yards on the ground. I believe the best golfer in the world, or one of the top 10, whatever you want to put him, and that can happen. And, you know, who lost Edmonton lost nine nothing 10 nothing to Colorado last week, like it can happen.
[Jason] (29:58 - 31:11)
So Red Sox roll in. Another thing, and this is, again, we can ask it in the hockey context, but it is more of a, more of a life thing is. So I've heard you talk about how you were a college coach and when it came time to have a family.
You, you thought that the prep school life and a house on the Cape would be a better fit for your whole self, right? And, and, and, and your, your family's life, right? And I've also heard you reflect that, that that was a great decision.
I'm going through something similar where if you had asked me in my early 20s, like, work was the only thing that mattered. And like outsizing ambition and work and achieving their work and my brand, you know, as a technology entrepreneur. And I was like, everything was just about like, it was all on the work, right?
And, and now it's much more about balance, even, even at the expense of future achievement professionally, right? How, I mean, how have you balanced that and, and what advice you have for those trying to balance it? And, and I can ask that as a dad and as a person, but then there's that same question in terms of what you impart on your kids as well as a parent.
[Paul] (31:11 - 33:10)
Yeah, for me, and I, I laugh because again, I specifically remember then the 90s and working summer hockey schools and, you know, Phil Grady, my coach at Hamilton College, great guy and, and Donnie Unger out there. And Peter Sears from Oswego played the 72 Olympic team and just just a bunch of guys you work with them. And a lot of them have their kids at the hockey school with them as, as campers too.
So I thought that was pretty neat. But those were guys who told me they said the best job in hockey is to get a job at a prep school and a house down the Cape. I seem to make sense even to my young, young self and, and it's been 12 years of college hockey.
And, yeah, I was getting to the point with, with my wife and I were, what are we going to do here? So I, I think it was a great decision. It was a great experience on, on so many levels.
But once again, we all, we all have to go back to 6 billion people and trying to figure out life and what works and what are you? What, what, what do you do for a living and, and how could you know this morning or actually again play an hockey with those guys and traffic is insane over there. I don't know how people commute into the city every day.
Some do it a few times a day. Some have to do it every day. The other thing I think we all know is nothing is perfect.
Nothing is perfect. You know, working at a prep school is not perfect. Not, not everybody can work at a boarding school.
Not everybody can work in an hospital. Not everybody can work in a high octane business environment. So what, what works for everybody and every family?
And then you got a husband who might do one thing and a wife who does another thing and how many kids do you have and how old are they? And we all, we all got to figure it out. And I think most do.
I think most do. And, and understanding that again, nothing's going to be perfect.
[Jason] (33:12 - 34:28)
And I mean, bringing that back around to Milton Academy and, and prep school in general, super competitive, more competitive than ever, especially with the pandemic, right? Because, you know, there's been so much appetite and interest to, you know, to get into the private schools with the smaller classes, more hands on, more seen, right? Better resources for better for worse, right?
And, and because of that, you, you can have the grades and you can have the test scores and you can interview well and you can, like, whatever, you can have all the things. And still not getting anywhere, right? And, and so because of that, as a parent, there's a lot of pressure to, like, make sure that your kids have all their ducks in a row.
If that's a path that you aspire to at the same time, like kids need to learn from themselves and sometimes the best way for them to learn from themselves is to, like, take, you know, like, stop hovering and let them fail. Let them, like, step on their own sword and, and feel the pain and learn the hard way, right? But if they do that, then maybe they lose their shot and then they'll look back later and they'll have regret, right?
So how do you, like, how do you balance that, right? The key, you know, helping your kids keep the chain on the tracks versus not, not doing it for them and letting them fail.
[Paul] (34:28 - 36:32)
Hey, again, if there was a formula, if there was something I, you know, any of us had to say, Hey, you do, you know, and then within the same house, you know, can be three different kids. Or two different kids and, and, you know, going to Milton or going to St. Seb's or going to Nobles or going wherever is not, is not a guarantee of anything. And, you know, for some kids, you know, okay, going to BC High is, it's a good BC High is an awesome place.
It's been an awesome place for a long time will continue to be is that two brothers BC I might be a perfect place. And then for the other brother, get them high might be the perfect place or hang them high or, or Catholic Memorial or whatever it might be. So how people just navigate that.
We do live in a geographic area that I've haven't done a study, but I can't imagine there's too many other places on the planet that have as much academic slash athletic offerings as the 15 miles. Around where I'm sitting right now. Matter of fact, the seven miles around where I'm sitting.
It's staggering. So that does create it's kind of like hockey in Toronto, hockey in Montreal, hockey in Boston, you have a large population, you have a lot of programs, you have a lot of people, and you have a fair amount of money, and you have competitive people. So that creates this sort of stew of something.
I'm not sure what to call it. So it's funny with that said, arguably the leading goal scorer leading American player came from Scottsdale, Arizona did not come from Boston did not come from Michigan did not come from Minnesota. He did not come from New Jersey did not.
He got the idea.
[Jason] (36:34 - 36:49)
Well, but does that mean that that he, you know, grew up playing triple a hockey for a team had no order to play a competitive schedule needed to be on planes every week in order to do that needed to homeschool and right. And I'm not familiar with Austin.
[Paul] (36:49 - 36:55)
Matthew, you know, I know a member who's playing for the Bobcats and that crew, and then they had the PF Chang's. I'm not sure.
[Jason] (36:55 - 36:56)
I don't know any of his. I don't know any of his.
[Paul] (36:56 - 38:10)
Yeah, you know, by the time it was 15, 14. Yeah, they would get it on planes and and all that, which is fine. But I would I would go back to his development.
He is again, the mini ranked that they had in Scottsdale. They had six, seven, eight, nine, 10, 11. I can't imagine that his squirt team.
They went on my hockey rankings to see that they were the 17th of the country. You know, it was often argued years back that if Sydney Crosby didn't grow up in Nova Scotia. Instead, he grew up in Mississauga.
You might have a different now. That's just, you know, it's a armchair discussion, but would you have had a different product? You know, the the pressure, I hate to use that word, but it exists the the level of competition, the people, the egos in a metropolitan area.
A certainly a factor, whereas growing up, you know, outside of Halifax is a different experience as a as a boy. We never have the answer. We have the answer.
This, which is, I guess, allows me to be a part of it. This isn't engineering or calculus.
[Jason] (38:11 - 39:37)
Something else that that that I've found tricky to navigate is, you know, as you look at different schools, I think one of the piece of advice that many people have. And I think you might have even given this to me is, like, imagine if, you know, your kid got injured and couldn't play a day of hockey, like, you know, would the school be the right fit, right? And I think, you know, would, you know, would he or she be happy at the school?
And I think that's a great test. And I've also heard you say that the road's gotten so much harder playing college like, you know, don't even think about it. Don't optimize for it.
Just go and choose the right spot. And if the kid rises up, right, then deal with it then, right? But if you balance that with the fact that in order to just play in high school, you know, kids are repeating once or sometimes even twice.
And it's one thing if you're like a celebrity and it's obvious you should be optimizing for the sport, right? But if you're just kind of like a, like a solid player, you kind of worry if you don't start optimizing for it and making decisions around it, such as reclassing, right? Then you're kind of torturing your kid's chances to even have a high school sports experience.
So, so, like, how can those who coexist and how should, how should you navigate that as a parent or as a family?
[Paul] (39:37 - 43:28)
Yeah. And again, I can't give an answer to everybody. I think the term we've always used though, and I still believe this too, is that the hockey will take care of itself.
As long as you're in a reasonable, for every player, you can tell me that came through Shaddick or came through, you know, Belmont Hill or came through something. I'll give you another player, just as good, that came from a different place. So, there's no, if 90% of all the hockey players came from a honey baked, well, it probably tells you that you need to go away for a honey baked, but that's not true.
So, you know, you've got players now coming from Switzerland and Finland and small towns and big cities and Florida and Texas and Boston. And so, the hockey will take care of itself. When you're a young kid and a teenager, you're mostly going to be involved with hockey two hours a day, maybe three hours a day when you're a game or something at a prep school where you are.
So, there's another 21 hours in the day. So, you can balance that. The other thing I would say is that it is, be it this thought.
There's lots of families right now that, yeah, in some aspects, you get pinch points, you get, you get, you know, boy, but they are doing it. Hopefully, I wasn't misquoted. Like I never said, I don't even think about playing college hockey.
Yes, the road has got much more difficult. There's no question. But it's great to have goals.
And it's, and again, if the goal of your child is to be a high level computer coder, well, you're not going to suppress that. I think at any parent, you're going to support or provide what you can for your children to pursue their interests. And then it's up to the individual family of where that, where's that needle?
You know, where's that needle? Yeah, I got a friend who moved his two boys from Chicago to Connecticut. Years ago, they started playing hockey out by Naperville with a steel iron ally, ironically.
And he started playing hockey as young kids, then his job brought him back to Connecticut. And when they got to Connecticut, the next fall, he told his boys, says, unfortunately, guys, there's, there's no hockey in Connecticut. So you can play football, soccer, here's the list.
Six, eight, so it's no hockey. I love it. And it's, I think one boy ended up playing college football, one boy ended up playing college across, but as a family, that's how he goes.
He's like, I'm not going to take these two kids to the rank and fought, drive in a Philly, and signing up for a mid-fearfield or the Connecticut, your New Ring, Jitzy, because that's nuts. Now, that's his decision. Now, the mid-fearfield is a great program.
Connecticut, Jr. is a great program. That particular family, that's how the father and the mother handled that particular situation. Again, free country.
How do you spend your, yeah, that's the other side we always talk about. Okay, you have X amount of time, you have X amount of energy, and you have X amount of money that you're willing to allocate to anything. So as a family, or even as a teenage boy, how do you want to spend your time, how do you want to spend your energy, and usually there's a financial commitment.
So it's a choice. You want to join the Y for 15 bucks a month in the summer? You can't.
You want to go to a higher level strength and conditioning program for 1500 in the summer where you meet with a coach in a particular time? You can. At each family, with each child, in each situation, just make their decisions.
[Jason] (43:30 - 44:13)
Well, the, I mean, the only constant in life is change and hockey's certainly no exception, although it does feel like the pace of change and hockey and maybe even in life is, is accelerating. But I just look at the changes in the sport and here closer to it than I am, but you see like the portal, you see NIL, you see the Canadian major juniors, you see, you know, prep kids not returning for their senior years, you see, you know, freshman age, getting older and older. You see, you know, black bear running around and buying up rinks and clubs and digital services and whatever and, and the sport increasingly becoming more, more privatized.
What are the biggest changes on your mind and, and what do you worry about most as you look towards the future of the game?
[Paul] (44:13 - 44:29)
Well, there's more choice as you just outlined. The menu is, is thick. When the 80s, as I alluded to, when I grew up, if you went to buy sneakers, you probably had three or four choices.
I recall Nike, Adidas, and Converse.
[Jason] (44:30 - 44:34)
If I was, that was, that was, that was when I was in middle school, they were all the rage.
[Paul] (44:34 - 46:38)
I think I was, yeah, dating my, you know, how old I am. I think my, I think my mid after college, I can't recall, but those guys who created the pop are actually hockey guys. They're actually skating.
Walk on, on Friday morning. Kevin Larry, I'll give a shout out to Kevin might add something to do with the pump. Billy McGinnis, maybe.
I think they actually might argue about who, who was the creator. Anyways, we digress. But now if I go to Dick's Sporting Goods today, there's like three walls of sneakers.
Even within, say, the new balance family, there's 42 different type of new balance. So this choice and everything, which is great on one side. And, you know, has some challenge points on another, but then it just becomes, you know, up to us as to what we choose.
But again, if you go back to what you can control. Okay, and the development of the athlete, and this might be a topic for another podcast. You know, what do you do?
Why do you do it? Simple as that, you know, whether it be the practice session on ice, whether it be a three minute pregame talk, whether it be a four minute postgame talk, whether it be an off ice training session, whatever it might be video. What do you do?
Why do you do it to allow for development within the player, within the group? That's something we can control. Once you have them, that is something that you can control.
Obviously, the parents are going to make decisions about sort of signing up for that type of thing. But to me, that's a fascinating area. Probably not time right now for a deep dive in that area, but that to me is the never-ending question.
[Jason] (46:38 - 47:37)
On the one hand, there's so much that can be taught and you hear about the games out of balance, too much individual skills, not enough IQ. You know, they're not learning skills that are translatable enough to a game environment. They should be learning this way.
They should be learning that way. The coaches need, you know, like someone needs to coach the coaches, right? So it's kind of that whole narrative, right?
But then I've heard you say on other shows that actually, like, if we could just get, oh, you didn't say it quite this way, but you were talking about how, if you look at the best athletes in any town, right? Like, how many of them are actually playing hockey, right? And, you know, probably far less than half, right?
And so if you could only, you didn't say this, but I'm then saying, well, if that's the case, right? If you could get more of the best athletes to play the sport and stick with the sport, that alone would bring the caliber of the game up so much. Which one of those do you think would be more impactful?
Is it about inclusivity and getting more people into the sport, or is it about working better with what you've got?
[Paul] (47:38 - 50:27)
Well, both, right? I mean, I think USA hockey does a good job. That's their sort of mission as trying to get as many players as we can involved.
Many kids give opportunity to play hockey and then educate coaches and parents about what might be the best development paths or what development should look like. So, so both. And when I say the best players, not play, sorry, the better athletes in the town, I usually talking about Massachusetts.
Although I think it would extend out into New York, I think it would extend out into California, New Jersey, other places too. You know, you better athletes in Florida are generally playing football and baseball, basketball, same in California. But again, what can we control?
Well, the kids who have signed up for hockey, we have them. So we can, or the word is control, but we can manage the experience that those kids have, whether they're the best athlete in the town of Needham or a mid-level, whatever they are. They can play the sport and develop as best they can.
And I think it all said and done. Honestly, we do a great job. Yeah, I know there's a lot out there all Massachusetts.
Well, the world has changed. You know, Jim Craig and Mike yours, the only, you know, Boston hockey, the world has changed. And the rest of the world has changed.
So we're never going back to that. But all said and done, there's so many great people out there right now, both in the Boston area and throughout the country that are working with the kids, doing a great job in a variety of ways. The kids have a lot of opportunity to play hockey.
That is a positive. A lot more opportunity than we had. So I think just continuing to work with that group of coaches, which is what I try to do.
My life right now is to work with some players, to work with some groups, to work with some teams, to work with a particular coach or to work with a group of coaches and just have these conversations about what might be the best given the circumstance. What are the circumstances that you have, whether it be the age, whether it be the amount of kids, whether it be the competitive level, what might be the best way to use your time and your energy and your resources.
[Jason] (50:27 - 51:22)
You're probably getting tired of getting asked this question, but I know that in some parts of the country, there's a lot of talk about issues around the New England hockey model. And I know I have some guests scheduled who I haven't recorded with yet, who come from other parts of the world like Minnesota, who have a lot to say about the road to nowhere and how the funnel is not getting filled and how kids are getting anointed as winners too early and those aren't the right kids and everyone's not getting brought along. And so, like, there's a reason why out the other side, you see less and less, you know, people playing the game at the highest levels coming from Massachusetts.
I mean, you kind of already said it, but I'll ask anyways, as a lifelong New England and Massachusetts guy who's devoted to life to, you know, to coaching hockey at some incredibly prestigious levels, how do you feel?
[Paul] (51:23 - 53:30)
Well, again, I think in this area, there's a lot of really good things going on, obviously. We don't have six boys anymore. Okay, you don't have six boys.
I don't have six boys. I don't know any family that has six kids. When I grew up, we had three in my family.
We were a small family. Now three is a bigger family. So having just a big brew to kids and it wasn't all the boys in that particular family that made it to the NHL.
Yeah, it was one or two of the boys. So the boy, the boy, you know, the barrier to entry has become more challenging. There's no question at the time and the money that it takes for a family, for a competitive, any level hockey.
And then in particular, a higher competitive level is a barrier of entry. There's no question. That same barrier of entry in the town of Milton doesn't exist.
In the football program, football has its own challenges, but that barrier of entry, the barrier of entry for Little League or a six year old tee ball is not very high. You enroll your kid in maybe not six year old hockey, but eight year old hockey, you're going somewhere. You're going to Springfield.
You're going to wherever you're going at all hours of oftentimes both weekend days. So it chews up your whole weekend. If you're kids in eight year old baseball, he might have one game Saturday morning.
In the town, five minutes away, you're home by 10 a.m. You've got the rest of the, you know, the financial and time commitment for hockey is significant. It's always going to be there. I can't control that.
I can't. Again, in my life, I'm focusing on, okay, whoever's there, one after they're there, what do we do? And why do we do it?
[Jason] (53:32 - 53:58)
And last topic, I figured to be a good one to end on is there's some talk out there about how it's too much individual, individual skills, traveling around cones, not transitable to game environment. What's really suffering is IQ. And there's some debate out there about whether IQ can be taught.
And what do we even mean by IQ? How do you define hockey IQ and in your mind, can it be taught?
[Paul] (53:58 - 57:49)
And again, this is probably something we could come back and spend a solid hour on just this topic. But well, there's no question that, okay, a warm up for an athletic activity. You're going to do.
So your practice environment should look similar to what the game environment looks like. Just take that without debate. Okay.
So in the game of hockey, it never happens that a player skates after whistle is blown in a straight line to a certain distance and does something and then goes back in a line. Okay, that never happens in a game on. Is there a place for something like that with younger kids?
Possibly yes. But the practice environment should look like the game environment. Hockey is played with the brain.
The brain controls every physical movement, every reaction to what you're seeing visually or what you're hearing. So thinking, decision making, call it decision training, should be somewhat omnipresent. The game is also competitive.
So a lot of the activities you're doing should probably be competitive. That rising tide, again, you create this sort of stew. You create this toss salad.
That rising tide will lift all boats. That's been my observation over a period of time. So I'll go back again with, you know, in the spring, it will be growth.
If what you're doing on the ice, that there's a little bit of speed of foot. And the speed is going to come probably from competition more than anything. And you've got work with the hands.
You know, baseball, you hold the bat, baseball, you have a glove, baseball, you throw, it's a lot of sort of a body. Yes, the little body. But hockey is everything.
And that's the other part for all of us. It's a really hard sport. Okay, it's really hard.
All sports are hard. Hockey is really hard. There's a lot of things.
That's why you see these people spending all this time and thinking a lot of things have to come together. Maybe more than any other sport, because again, you're doing it on what a 16th of an inch of a blade on slippery ice. That's hard.
That hurts. That there's boards and glass pucks. You know, basketball player goes to the backboard.
I mean, what's a Rick Rambus did this for the LA Lakers back in the 80s, but you can't take a basketball player off. You can take a hockey player out. Okay, it's really hard.
And you're out there for 30, 50 seconds. Your heart rate is going to 90% max. And you're being hit and you're processing information.
So two things there. Yes, then your practice environment should resemble that because that's what you're practicing for. And if you're going up to a cone and you're making a predetermined move and then you go to another cone, well, that's not going to happen when you play the game.
[Jason] (57:51 - 58:10)
So last last question we can end on, which is more of a personal one, but I mean, I know you're still active. I doubt you'd call yourself retired, although maybe you do, but you know, your portfolio looks different than it did a few years ago. And for the decades before that, do you miss it?
[Paul] (58:11 - 59:54)
Some things you miss. Some things you don't miss. I love my life right now.
I love the ability to do this. And I love the ability to play hockey early this morning. And I love the ability to do the things I'm going to do this afternoon.
So, you know, I'm out of that sort of structured, you know, my halves are not as many, which is great. And also now just like this, I can toy with some things that I've been thinking about. And I can go places and apply some of these ideas.
And I like to think I can help some people. I can help some kids. And I can help some coaches.
And just in conversation and they're helping me. Like I continue, you know, 35 years, whatever it's been, I continue to learn things every day. And again, the games evolve and life's evolve, the world's evolving, technology's evolving.
I like to think I'm still evolving. So it's, it's a ton of fun. Because I get to do more of what I want to do.
And I think, you know, you have different people on when you're in college, you spend so much time on recruiting, traveling, logistics. The hockey is actually like 10% maybe of what you're actually doing at times prep school was great, but you know, you're teaching classes, you've got all these meetings. I'm not a big fan of meetings.
I'm mind telling you. So all that's sort of off the plate and more freedom to dig into things that I really enjoy.
[Jason] (59:54 - 1:00:08)
Coach, I mean, this was such a great discussion. And I learned so much from you every time we speak, not just about hockey, but about life. So I'm really appreciative that you made the time.
I always enjoy it. Is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did or any parting words for listeners?
[Paul] (1:00:09 - 1:05:55)
Now it's just been great. And, you know, again, conversation and sharing ideas, all of us. There's, there's no one if there's no secret sauce, okay, in hockey and, or in lots of things, human development.
But we, we all continue to think about things. And again, with the goal of, hey, let's provide these kids with the best experience we can and give them the best opportunity to have a good time and develop as people and, and develop as athletes. And I'll share one more, one more real impactful thing for me.
Early 90s, I go down a long island just starting coaching and my college roommate was for Long Beach, gave me an excuse. Go down there, hop hog, exit 60 off the LIE, work for five days, then go to Long Beach for the weekend. Have a good time with my roommate, a couple other guys, 23 years old, blah, blah, blah.
I get paired with Alexi, Nicka Foraf. Okay. And if anybody's listed and they want to Google them, you can Alexi, Nicka Foraf.
You swear words. I happen also know those swear words. I'm not sure how much Russia, not just Alexi's.
So I'm paired with him. And he kind of lead in the way. And boy, he ran just unbelievable, call it practices on a sessions, training sessions, whatever you want to call.
And I went back to second summer, worked with him some more. And you'll see Chris Higgins from way out past exit 60 became captain of the Montreal Canadians. What are the chances back then that a kid from way out on Long Island become go to Yale, went to a long went to Yale, can captain of the Montreal Canadians.
They had three first round picks in one year, commissaric, nice term, and could have been Higgins. I might be missing the guy. I mean, I can keep going at a Lexi tree down there in that pocket.
A kid who's the assistant at Harvard now, two syllables, played for the Walpole Stars, went to BU, Hobie Baker winner, forgetting his name. Working with him at Harvard is James Maku, another Alexi guy, all American at UMass. We had Pat McNally at Milton Academy, Robbie O'Gara, a little bit of a Lexi guy.
Then a bunch of kids said they were really good players that maybe didn't did a Jason Guerrero, all American at Northeastern. He'll be on the ship. Yeah.
So all of them, you know, ask any of them about it, but for me as a young coach, he didn't speak English. Okay. And he, so it kind of goes to that maximum of he's not teaching me a lot, but I'm learning a lot.
And I learned a lot from a Lexi. He couldn't speak to me. I had an idea what he was saying.
So to me, it was just, again, another seminal moment of like, okay, it's not, it's not like, here's a book. Or I'm going to tell you how to play hockey, or I'm going to correct you at blow whistle. Oh, wait, no, you should be facing this way.
And the other thing all the Alexi kids have, like Guerrero McNally, who's the kid that's the assistant at Harvard right now, played at BU. I'm blanking, hasn't he? Yeah.
Yeah. But all those kids, obviously, Hobie Baker winner, I mean, he's a great story. You should get him on.
Walk on at BU. Oh, I'm going to find him. And I also believe he walked on as a forward.
Maybe Brian DeRocher, Michael Davis, where the assistant coaches who walked on, I believe, is a forward. And then in Gilroy, Adam Gilroy. And he wins the Holy Baker as a, as a defenseman.
So again, a path that, you know, an outlandish patch. But my point is all of those players, you could kind of tell they had been around Alexi. It's a little like Gary Deneen, the old Springfield picks.
I used to think his teams had that. There's a certain verve to their team. They played a certain style.
They made plays. Even if they weren't the best players on the team, they had a certain confidence the way they played a certain puck movement. A lot of Alexi's guys, I would say, you could tell.
You could see his, his fingerprint on them. But for all that we're worried about here, again, for all this and all that, here's the guy that didn't speak English. That just provided activities for the players so that in the spring, it would be growth.
They didn't all win the Holy Baker. They didn't all play in the NHL. They didn't all play Division I College hockey.
But they all benefited the Deutsch brothers. Aaron Deutsch was a kid who came to Milton Academy. We used to call him the Rejan Rondo, a prep school hockey.
He had a one-armed championship in 2011. He was one of the D with McNally. Sean Doherty was a goalie and other Long Island kid.
I kept up my contacts with Alexi. He was seen through the years. It was a pond.
It was good to know who those kids were down there. But they all benefited from being around him. And here's a guy that could not speak English.
[Jason] (1:05:55 - 1:05:58)
I got to crack him down too. I want Alexi.
[Paul] (1:05:58 - 1:06:45)
Yeah, well, he'd be an interesting guy. A bunch of us could do our limitations of Alexi. But what a guy loves hockey and way ahead of his time as so many coaches were.
But again, just an example. You can't overthink this. It's sort of a simple game.
And if kids have exposure to what's reasonable, and then they have a genetic compatibility with the sport, then you're going to get something. And if they don't, then it doesn't matter what you do. You could have Bruce Cassidy and Marco Sturm and Peter Scharelli and Don Sweeney all live at your house.
All right, Coach.
[Jason] (1:06:45 - 1:07:08)
I think that's a good point to end on. Thanks again for coming on the show. And I will keep talking ears off at the gym for better for worse.
Thank you. Have a good day. Thanks for listening to Puck Academy.
If you enjoyed this episode, follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and share it with someone serious about their game. See you next week.