Host Jason Jacobs welcomes Jon Lounsbury to Puck Academy. Jon is the owner of 11 Hockey, a player development coach who works with multiple NHL players, and a youth coach for his daughters. Jon shares his journey from youth and high school hockey in Winthrop to prep school at Bridgeton Academy, college hockey at the University of Southern Maine, and six years of professional hockey before transitioning into coaching. After coaching at Bridgeton and in the EHL, he eventually moved into full-time player development, where he now works with players at all levels, including the NHL. In the conversation, Jon discusses how injuries helped him rediscover his love for the game and shaped his coaching philosophy. He explains the importance of building trust and strong relationships with players, and how he uses video to highlight missed opportunities while respecting team systems. While he uses some analytics tools, such as heat maps, his approach remains primarily rooted in observation and experience. Jason and Jon also dive into the current youth hockey landscape, including the risks of early professionalization, overscheduling, and the constant “chasing” of teams, showcases, and tournaments. They discuss the importance of giving the game back to kids, encouraging multi-sport participation, allowing space for boredom and creativity, and helping parents and coaches strike the right balance between discipline, patience, and realistic expectations.
In this episode of Puck Academy, host Jason Jacobs sits down with Jon Lounsbury, owner of 11 Hockey and a player development coach who works with players from youth hockey through the NHL.
Jon shares his journey from youth and high school hockey in Winthrop, Massachusetts, to Bridgeton Academy, University of Southern Maine hockey, and six years of professional hockey before transitioning into coaching and player development. Today, through 11 Hockey, he works with players across youth, junior, college, and pro levels.
Jason and Jon discuss what actually drives player development, how video can be used effectively without undermining team systems, and why relationships and trust are central to helping players improve.
The conversation also dives into the current youth hockey environment — including overscheduling, tournament chasing, early specialization, and the pressures facing families — and why giving the game back to kids through creativity, multi-sport participation, and realistic expectations may be the healthiest path forward.
They also discuss analytics in player development, the importance of observational coaching, and how recent CHL–NCAA eligibility changes could reshape the college hockey landscape.
00:00 Welcome to Puck Academy
02:25 Why Youth Hockey Feels Toxic
03:59 Jon’s Hockey Origins
07:23 Falling Out and Back In
10:36 Coaching Path and Mentors
13:20 Inside 11 Hockey Today
16:32 Parenting vs Pushing Kids
22:47 Boredom and Street Hockey Lessons
26:46 Discipline Without Burnout
30:25 What Pros Actually Need
33:13 Trust and Pressure
34:10 Can Hockey IQ Be Developed?
35:05 Breaking Comfort Zones
38:00 Using Video the Right Way
40:22 Analytics and the Eye Test
43:55 What Pros Can Teach Youth Players
47:32 Tryouts, Cuts, and Parents
49:14 Shifts in the College Hockey Path
53:16 Academies, Advisors, and Juniors
58:59 Hope, Patience, or Delusion
01:02:59 Final Thoughts and Farewell
[Jason] (0:00 - 2:16)
Welcome to Puck Academy, a show about how hockey players grow on and off the ice. I'm Jason Jacobs, the host, and each week I talk with players, coaches, and experts shaping the future of player development. Today's guest is Jon Lounsbury, owner of Eleven Hockey.
At Eleven Hockey, Jon works closely with players at all skill levels, from youth through a bunch of players in the NHL, providing on-ice skill development, video coaching, and mentorship. Jon's passion lies in helping players elevate their game, both technically and mentally, to reach their highest potential. Back in the day, Jon did a PG year at Bridgeton Academy, where he still holds the school record for most goals and points in a season.
He got his bachelor's and master's from the University of Southern Maine, where he was a four-time ECAC All-Conference Selection and two-time All-American. He then played six years of professional hockey, including four seasons with the Huntsville Havoc, and after a retiring firm professional play, he got his first taste of coaching as head coach and administrator at his alma mater, Bridgeton Academy. And he used his extensive network there to help place a bunch of players in NCAA Division I and Division III programs, and then did the same when he coached junior hockey with the Walpole Express.
Now, over the past several years, he's honed his player development, working with players, again, at a very high level, but also coaches youth hockey for his daughters. And that gives Jon a really interesting perspective, because he's both seen what it takes to be elite, but also sees the current state of the youth game and where some of the disconnects might lie. We have a great discussion in this episode about player development, about how it evolves over different levels, about what it takes to play at the highest levels in the game, but also the state of the youth game.
What's good, what's bad, what's ugly, how Jon thinks about it as a dad and as a coach, where he sees some parents go astray, and his advice for players and families trying to navigate the evolving path. Great discussion, and I hope you enjoy it. Jon, welcome to the show.
[Jon] (2:16 - 2:17)
Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.
[Jason] (2:17 - 3:08)
Thanks for coming. Yeah, you've been on my wish list for a while. I've been a fan from a distance.
I think we had one discussion maybe a few years ago or something. I was just curious about the work that you do. But one of the things that makes you so interesting to me is that in your day job, you work with some of the best players in the world, current NHLers, et cetera.
So the highest end of the game, but you also coach your daughters, and your social media presence, and I heard you on the think tank and stuff, and you're kind of bashing the state of the state with the youth system, and maybe think that some of the chasing and delusion is toxic and unhealthy, right? And so I think that combination is a rare combination to have in one human, and so I think this is going to be a fascinating discussion.
[Jon] (3:09 - 3:52)
Yeah, it'll be interesting for sure. I think there's a lot of good people in the game. There's a lot of good people in the sport.
I think there's some toxic people in the sport, and just like any sport, it doesn't matter what it is. I think there's, I don't know what's the best way to put it, but it's just too many people directing people in the wrong direction. How do we make this a cleaner, better environment for our kids?
And my favorite saying for me is we've got to give the game back to the kids, and it hasn't been that way. So I don't think I'll make a change, but if I can just worry about myself and what's in front of me, I try to do the best I can and help the people around me and do the right thing.
[Jason] (3:53 - 4:08)
Well, I mean, that is fertile ground that you just laid out, and I, of course, want to dive into it, but before we get too far down the path, maybe just some quick context. Maybe talk a bit about your journey into the sport. How'd you come about it?
Was it in your family and your path in the game?
[Jon] (4:09 - 7:23)
Yeah. I can't sit here and tell you that my parents were elite athletes. They were elite supporters for sure.
My dad, I could tell you, my dad and I are very close, but I've never played catch with my dad. I've never seen him do anything athletic. There's a pretty significant age gap between my brothers and I, so I grew up watching my middle brother play in Winthrop and going to all the games at Winthrop High School, and I'm 11 years younger than he is.
So I just kind of fell in love with the game for just being around the rink, being a little brother that kind of got drug everywhere, and I just took to it. I never played club hockey until I was a little bit older. It wasn't a big thing growing up.
I played Winthrop High School. I played Winthrop Youth Hockey. I played for the North Suburban Wings at the time, which I don't remember practicing.
I just remember having games. I don't know if at the time it was split season, but going far back, and that's when club hockey was true club hockey. You had the Flames.
You had the Lowell Riverhawks. You had Central Mass Outlaws, that pocket of Metro hockey it was called, and you had to make the team, and we didn't know enough as a hockey family to go out and try out for these things. I just kind of was happy-go-lucky, and when hockey season was over, I didn't play any more hockey.
I played street hockey, but I played baseball. I played a ton of soccer. I was a big soccer fan.
My path is significantly different than lots because even when I was playing in college, even when I was playing in the minor leagues, I never once skated in the summer. I never picked up my bag. I never trained.
I went to training camp, and that's how it started. I went to college, and I knew ice was in September, and I could skate, and it wasn't like me against the sport. Again, I didn't know any better, so I never went to the gym, and if I had the resources I had now, my path would probably be the same.
I think I was athletic enough to get away with the sport and knew how to play it, and I was obsessed enough with the sport that I found ways to get better without doing certain things, but I think times obviously evolved, and we're in a world of I think we have to train to learn. The skill level now is 10x what it was then, right? There were some obviously incredibly talented players growing up, but now everyone can kind of play the game a little bit, and there's so much skill with these younger kids, and I just think that's where the game's lost.
I think there's too much skill and not enough, I don't want to say freedom of play, but just ability to play the game. So for me, I was a hockey nerd. I loved playing street hockey.
We played a ton of it in winter, but I think that's where I learned how to – I don't know. I learned the touches. I learned spacing.
I learned all that stuff, and just very fortunate to have the path I did. I overachieved in the sport from a kid who wasn't supposed to do much with it, and I had a great prep school career and a great college career. I was able to play for a few years in the minor leagues and get an advanced degree while I did it, and I just kind of – I was just right place, right time, a little hard work, and here I am.
So it was a pretty cool journey.
[Jason] (7:24 - 7:42)
I've heard you say before that at one point you fell out of love with the game, and then you came to fall back in love with the game. Could you talk about what point in the journey you fell out of love and any context that you'd be willing to share around that, and then kind of what that transition looks like where you came back into the game with open arms?
[Jon] (7:43 - 10:35)
When I was playing in the minor leagues, I was never a guy that was – I'm going to play in the NHL. I understood where everything was. Even when I was at Southern Maine as a senior and having the chance to be around the Portland Pirates after that and seeing, I mean, Corey Perry, Getzlaf, P.J. Parenteau, I'm looking at those guys in the American League and being like, holy. I thought I was a good player, but I'm like, this is just the American League alone, right? So it's like for me it was can I play, enjoy the game. I was still young.
I was an 18-year-old freshman in college, so I wasn't – I was 21 when I graduated, right, so I was buying time to the real world. When I was playing in the minor leagues, it was a couple years I had fun, and then I was looking for jobs in between, and the market crashed in what was it, 07, 08, so there was really – there wasn't a lot of jobs to be had, so I kept playing. And then towards the end, like I got the injury bug a little bit towards the end, and I never had been hurt in my career, so I broke an ankle and I had surgery, and I just wasn't – I was a shell of myself of who I was as a person, so I kind of – I was going down a path I didn't want to go down, so I started to resent the game a little bit.
And after my last year, I came home, and there was what's now the – believe it or not, what's now called the Fed, the Federal Hockey League, was the Eastern – I don't know what it was called then, Eastern Pro Hockey League, and Danbury had just been removed from the Thrashers, and I had some buddies playing there, and they said, hey, we have 20 games left. Do you want to come play? And I just was like – I was so mad about just hockey and life, and I was just a little bit of poor me, and I – they convinced me to go out and play, and I went with like zero expectations, zero care.
The hockey was terrible, which is fine, but I just had a blast. It was just like – it kind of made me love it again. I was just out there like just playing, and it was just free, and it was just – I was pointing again.
I was always a point-scoring guy, so it was like – it all was kind of coming full circle, and then it just made me kind of reignite what I wanted to do with the sport, and I just didn't know where I was going to go next and how I was going to get there. And then I took a job at Bridgestone Academy, which I went as a student, so it was kind of cool to come full circle and go back to that, and I think that opportunity at Bridgestone was the reason I'm able to do what I do today. I really – it taught me to be patient.
It taught me to teach. I really learned how to teach and like get through to kids from all different backgrounds and cultures and everyone. I'm not just talking hockey.
Like we had, you know, at the time, even the basketball program there had seven, eight high major guys going to huge schools and just like just being able to be around special coaches and special people, and it taught me just so much about my path and where I'm going with it, so it was cool.
[Jason] (10:36 - 10:38)
Is that where the transition to coaching kicked off?
[Jon] (10:39 - 13:05)
It did. Yeah, it kicked off there. I spent five years there, and we were able to build on a legacy that Jamie Prince had going there, and for me, it was about college commitments.
At the time, the temperature of the sport wasn't crazy, so we were able to place 17, 18, 19 kids in college hockey. We had some really good teams, and we have some players from those teams that are still playing. So it's kind of – that's the really neat thing.
And then I decided to move home. My mom was sick. She had cancer, and it was towards the end of her life cycle, so it was a great life lesson for me.
So I moved home and coached junior hockey. I coached in the Eastern Hockey League for Walpole, and kind of the same thing. It's just like it was another level of coaching for me.
It was a challenge to who can I bring in, how can I get them there, and I think that's when junior hockey was still kind of figuring it out. Like we were able to have some great Division I players out of our team. We had a plethora of Division III hockey players, and again, same thing, 17, 18, 19 kids going to school every year.
And for me, that was what I prided myself on, and that and their performance. And I think once I saw how the guys performed in college after playing for my staff and I, it was never just me. I kind of knew there was something there that I can help people.
So that's when I started to dive into the player development stuff and how can I help the individual get a little bit better. And I just took that route and was able to do some stuff with some NHL clubs. I stopped coaching behind the bench, and I took a volunteer job for Dave Berard at Holy Cross for two years, and I just learned a lot from David.
Been forever grateful for that because it was such a cool opportunity to work for such, you know, he's been in the industry for such a long time. His sons are clients of mine, Brett and Brady. And it was just, like, really cool because I never considered myself an X's and O's guy.
I just, my players, I allowed them to play, and, you know, we had some rules and some systems and stuff, but I didn't have the details like a guy like David did, so working for him, I just learned a different lens of the game and being able to see it from a different view, and it was incredibly helpful, again, to where I am now, right? So it's like it just was another step in the right direction for me.
[Jason] (13:05 - 13:31)
And in a world of unlimited time, gosh, I'd want to talk through all the twists and turns on the journey, but since I know we have a bit of an, you know, we have a hard stop we're managing to, there's so much substance I want to get into that if it's okay, maybe just talk a bit about your current work and talk a bit about what you're doing in the youth game today, and then we'll kind of jump into some of the, you know, some of the topics that I'm dying to unpack.
[Jon] (13:31 - 16:32)
So right now I work with, you know, majority of my clients are pros. I have, you know, a good number of college guys that are turning pro this year and some that are just entering college. I do have a small group of guys in junior hockey and prep, and I have a partner that I brought in guys named Steve Woods.
He was an all American at Providence and really good hockey resources, doing some video for some guys with alongside of me and has done a great job. So I was able to be able to grow the business a little bit, but typically a client will sign up for a year for the services. And it includes skates in the summertime where they live here or not.
I do travel with my clients and then it includes video throughout the season. You know, they get their games sent back to them and, you know, you really just see it all connect and come together. You know, I think having the one-offs are cool.
I think getting a few video sessions a year are great, but I also think there's, if you're really into the detail, the timeline of it makes more sense, you know, and it's just kind of, it's been really helpful for players. I get hired a lot during contract years, which is humbling. See if I can help guys out, you know, increase their, you know, financial future or longevity in the league.
I get hired a lot when guys are struggling, you know, so it's a really, really cool place to be in my life. And it's incredibly humbling because I'm a guy that, you know, I didn't play at the level these guys are playing at, but I've been able to grow my mind and the knowledge of the game to a point where I can help them, you know, and I think it's the people come first. I think you have to build a relationship with your clients and they have to trust you.
And once they trust you, you can kind of go with it and run. I think that's the most important thing because if our personalities don't match, if I'm too strong or if I'm not hard enough for guys, it just doesn't work. So it's a waste of resources versus, you know, versus getting the help on it.
And then when I flip my baseball cap around the other way at night, I go coach 10 new girls and 14 new girls. So I've been, been doing that since my daughter, Olivia was seven. She's 13 now, maybe six.
She's 13 now. And for that, it was just an opportunity to give back. I'm at the rink anyways, I'd be sitting there watching practice.
So it's why not, why not try to help a little bit and I get to have some fun with it because it's a completely different, you know, I'm looking at it from a completely different lens with the kids than I am with a, you know, with an NHL player at the same time, it does make it hard sometimes because like on a Saturday game, I'm watching Charlie Coyle's film and I'm giving feedback on it. And I go coach my kid and she misses a pass. It's four feet in front of her.
And I'm like, I'm pulling my hair out. And I'm like, all right, take a step back. They're not, I just watched an NHL game for the last X amount of time.
And now I'm at a youth game, just breathe. So it puts life into perspective pretty quickly.
[Jason] (16:32 - 18:09)
A lot of people come on my show and talk about how the early, the increasingly younger professionalization of the game is unhealthy and that you should just let the kids be kids at the same time as the skill levels getting higher. It puts pressure on kids to be more skilled earlier, especially because each step tends to be get the step in front of it in terms of if you get in early at some of these stronger programs, for example, then it's easier to keep a slot than to gain a slot. And if you're in certain places, then you get access to these other things.
And so it's almost like success begets success, right? Yeah. And there's also not a lot of patience in the system where there's a lot of pressure if you're in one of those seats to keep up with the Joneses because you don't want the system to just pass you right by because then, I mean, as weird as it is to say in a weird way, you're kind of damaged goods like, Oh, that kid got caught.
Right. Where like, you know, everyone, you know, fits and starts in puberty and other stuff going on in their life. And like, there's just a, you know, getting used to your body and figuring out what your interests are.
So, so I guess given all of that kind of stew of, of stuff how do you think about healthy support? You mentioned the word support from your parents. Like what's the difference between support and driving the bus and, and, and what role is there of a parent when you know, as they're helping their own kid navigate their own path.
[Jon] (18:10 - 22:47)
Yeah. And I think the support piece is giving your kids opportunity to excel in the sport by giving them options versus I signed you up for this. This is what you're doing.
Right. And it's different like sending your nine-year-old to a summer camp. Like I get that.
It's just for us, it's like adult babysitting. You know, it's just kind of like, we need a week. Our kid has to do something in the summer.
So I think the tournaments have really changed parents because they feel like they have to go do all this stuff. And I said it on another podcast. I think it was dofers where if my daughter came to me and said, I want to play in the summer.
Okay. I have no problem. I'll support it.
Right. But I'm not going to say like, I signed you up for these five tournaments. This is where we're going.
Right. And it's just like, I don't want, I don't ever want it to be like pushback. I kind of want it to be her idea.
And I can't say it. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I'm the perfect hockey parent because there's days where I don't know how to teach my kid or coach my kid. And I get frustrated, but I don't show it out.
I also don't like take it out on her in the car. I just kind of like internalize it and I self-destruct that way. I self-destruct that way.
But, and I think the, the temperature of hockey is, is where every sports being anything, people blame hockey all the time. It's all the sports. Like we're in a lacrosse, we're in a field hockey all that stuff.
It's, it's the same, no matter what. Like I'll tell you that my oldest daughter, Olivia, and it's not a slight, but like, we can't do winter stuff for lacrosse. So when we do the spring teams, we're never on the stronger teams because we've missed the winter.
Right. So it kind of gets held against her and I don't complain. It is what it is.
Like I get it. I totally understand that. But for my club teams in hockey, I tell the girls in the fall, I'm like, listen, if you skip soccer practice to come to hockey practice in September, like beat it.
I want you to go like pick one day a week where you can make it to hockey and pick one day a week where we can make it to soccer. We can both kind of coexist. Right.
So you have to go find ways to still like enjoy the fall sports and the spring sports and all that stuff and, and, and cross train or whatever you want to call it. But there's a saying, it's like USA hockey used to say this. I used to teach the classes and it was like today's, today's mites, tomorrow's midget.
Right. And I think there's some truth to that, but I also think we're trying to fast forward that. Right.
And like team jump and do all this stuff and try to become this. What I've seen in the girls world is that we took our lumps as, as you 10, you 12 girls, because when you have a group of five players that are exceptional on a team, it is, it is game changing. Right.
You can, you can win 90% of your games because the five players are carrying the load. Right. And now as we get to 14, it's everyone's kind of leveling out.
Right. So it's like the good players are still very good. That's not going to change, but the players who are behind are starting to catch up.
And I think there's a certain point in time where people have reached their athletic peak and it might be like, it might be bad for them to try to push the envelope into what level they're going to play at. Like if my daughter's not a tier one player, like it's only going to benefit her to be a tier two player because of the puck touches the speed of it. Like people want their kids to be high school athletes.
So don't, don't force them into a situation where they're going to be left behind and they might love the team and they might love the girls and all that stuff, but there's got to be a point in time where, okay, what are the goals? What's the realism of this? Where can I put my kid for the big, biggest success they can be in?
You know, it, it's hard because you don't know until as, as they get older. So for the younger kids, you just kind of, you just ride them out, you know, and you just, you see what they do. And there's going to be girls that change teams because of location.
There's going to be parents that chase it because of wins. Like we have, it happens all the time and, and people leave, people come back. It's just the nature of the beast, but it's, I'm not going to control the destiny for you.
I'm going to help your kid get better. I, you know, the only thing that frustrates me is that don't tell them, this is going to sound really arrogant, ignorant, whatever it is, but it's like, please don't sit in front of me and say, you know, I'm worried about my daughter's development when this is what I do for a living. Right.
So it's like, kind of give me the benefit of the doubt there and tell me that I'd rather have you tell me straight in the face, but like, we want to win more games. Fantastic. Like that's, it's not going to hurt my feelings.
I'm not a coach that gets overly like emotional about decisions. Kids are kids and parents make the decision. So I would never take it out on a kid for leaving to go play somewhere else because the end of the day, it's the parents that are creating this big circle of campfire that we're all stuck in.
Like it's, I don't know how to explain it.
[Jason] (22:47 - 23:44)
One thing that's been bouncing around in my brain is like you said, there's so many more tools and resources available today. And thus the skill level is getting higher and higher. I mean, one thing that I worry about is that with all these options, right.
And, and with no friends around in the neighborhood playing, right. Then every kid's just getting showered with, not every kid, because there's an accessibility and affordability problem for sure. But like kids are very scheduled.
Right. And one benefit of that is, you know, they're learning this language and they're playing this sport and they're having these opportunities and they're going on this trip and they're singing to this band and they're, it's like, that's great. Right.
But when are they learning like how to be bored and how to entertain themselves and how to seek and how to be creative and like how to try a new move or how to, you know, how to learn a new craft or how to invent a game with their friends, which in itself is a skill. Right. Yeah.
Yeah. Like how do you think about that as a dad and how do you think about that as a, as a hockey coach?
[Jon] (23:44 - 26:46)
That was us last summer. It was a figure it out summer. Like we didn't schedule anything for the kids.
We had a week camp going on somewhere. I think my daughter skated once a week with like Paul Kanata and her is, cause I try, I don't train my kids. I don't, I am completely separated from, from that.
So I think this summer will be the first one. My oldest one will skate with me because she's gotten to a point where she can understand it and do it a little bit. But there was figured out summer.
So like you're bored, like get on your bike and go somewhere and figure it out. You know, like there's so much stuff to do and, or I'll drive you somewhere and take you to your friend's house and you guys can figure it out. But that was kind of like the theme last year of just like, figure it out.
Like, we're going to go, you know, we're, we're turning into Velcro parents where it's like, we have to be there. We have to be sitting with them. We have to, you know, I think that's the term what it's called.
But, and again, we, we figured out how not to be bored. Like I remember throwing the ball off my roof of my house and seeing where it lands and trying to catch it. Right.
So it's like, how do we, how do we get out of that? And then we talk about sports specialization, but street hockey and flag football taught us so much about the sport. And the coolest thing about street hockey as a kid that you learn touch.
Right. So you learn that like, if I pass the ball too hard to you and you missed it, the guy who shot it has to go chase it. So now if it's downhill, I'm four blocks down the street and it might be in the sewer and now everyone's mad at me because I did it.
Right. So it's like, and you also just ran through traffic without looking. A hundred percent.
But, and if you take that, you want to like come down and take that slap shot. And we lived, we lived by the water. So we always play in like a parking lot that if you took a soft shot too much, the balls of the water.
Right. So it's like, you couldn't ruin the game. So you had to learn to like, keep your shots low.
You had to learn to make passes. You couldn't, it was just so cool. And you don't have those moments and they do.
There's certainly kids that, that do, and they go out there and play and you see it. But I think a lot of, most of the time it's, it's, they don't. And I'm not, I'm not blaming tech.
It's not technology. I'm going to sit here and say, it's like the kids are on their damn iPads. Like the kid, we were all bored.
We all sat in front of the TV. We all did stuff like we, we had boredom days like these kids do. So, you know, I just think the devices are bringing out negative thoughts in our kids' minds versus positive.
Right. It's like, it, it, it's creating a, an environment of like, I want to be that person. Right.
I want to, I want to have all the luxuries or I want to be able to do this, or I want to be able to, why, why is this person playing here and I'm stuck at home. Right. So I think it's creating more of an environment of like keeping up with the Joneses than it is, you know, as a, as a tool that could help them get better too.
So it's a really, it's really hard to watch it all happen. Or at the same time as a parent, you just have to control your own destiny with your kids. Like it's give them opportunities to be bored, learn how to be bored, figure it out from there.
[Jason] (26:46 - 27:35)
Another one I wrestle with as a parent is you know, you, you, I mean, you hear, Oh, professionalization is bad. And don't force them to do this. Don't force them to do that.
Don't make it like a job. Right. But at the same time, you know, you like you want to instill the discipline in your kid to do their homework every night.
You want to instill discipline in your kid to take shots. You want to do, you know, instill discipline in your kid to, you know, to put their dirty laundry in the hamper when they take it off instead of just tossing it on the floor. Right.
And so, so how do you distinguish as a parent and I know this is, I guess pretty parent centric when it's a hockey podcast, but they're so interrelated. Right. How do you distinguish between like, Oh, like I'm shopping to find out and I'm as early professionalization and I'm living vicariously versus like, I'm just trying to instill good habits so that my kid learns how to be an achiever.
[Jon] (27:36 - 30:26)
Yeah. And it's, it, that's the hardest thing about being a parent because you don't know, like you sit here and say like, this is how we're going to do it. And it's just like, it flows so differently.
Like my first daughter is so different from my second daughter. Like if I push my, my youngest, she shuts me out, you know, and she like doesn't want to hear it. And that's okay.
Like that's, you know, she's, she loves hockey. It's a part of her. Is she great at it?
No, it's okay though. And then like my other one, my oldest one loves hockey. And I think she's first time I'll say it publicly.
I think she's getting pretty good and she's getting to a spot where it's fun to watch her play. But I, I, I hate the stress she puts on herself. Like she's afraid to make a mistake in front of her teammates.
Like she's, and we're working through that and she's, she's been working with someone to help her with that stuff. But we're at a, we're at an age now she had seventh grade and we've been approached to, you know, we visited some prep schools and all that stuff. And that, it will be the route we go with her.
And my, my, the only thing I've kind of instilled with her and said, listen, like I'm, I'm happy to support your journey through this, whatever it may be. You might play three sports at prep school. You might play two, you might play one.
I'm happy to support your, you know, you go on a private education, all that stuff. And where we live doesn't have a town program. So I get it.
I'm there, but you have to like, you have to invest in that. And what I mean by that is that if you want me to pay your tuition at said school, right, you got to go outside and you got to shoot pucks. You have to watch some hockey.
You have to, you know, go to the gym, make yourself stronger. It's, we call it being heart healthy just for life. Right?
So, but the more you do that, that's, that's you investing into that tuition payment. You know what I mean? So like, I'm just asking her, like, the more I see you do that, the more happy I am to help you with this goal of yours, whatever it may be, the less you do of it.
Why are we doing it? You know? So like, what's, what's your why?
And that's something that like Jeff Lovecchio says all the time is him and Topher, he's a friend of mine, but like, that's an important thing. Like, what's, what's your why kid? Why are we, why are we playing club and spending four hours a night at the rink and doing all this stuff?
And I know you love it, but let's figure that why out, because it's only going to help you develop your path for whatever sport it's going to be in the future, you know? And, and it's, for me, it's not about being a college athlete. It's, I do think sports for young women, especially in young boys, create a great opportunity for them in the friendship circles.
It also creates a great opportunity for them collegially, you know? And, and as far as even the boys side, like going to play club at Pepperdine, whatever it may be, you know, it's just like, there's so much, there's so much out there that it's like kids can still have a great experience using, you know, sports as the driver, you know, the vehicle for it all.
[Jason] (30:26 - 30:41)
Getting back to what you do, you know, with, in your day job with the high end players. So how much of it is IQ? How much of it is tactics?
How much of it is technical? Like how do you think about what type of development you are helping them with the most?
[Jon] (30:41 - 34:10)
Yeah, I think it's all correlated. I really do. I think, I think the way we handle pucks allow us to see the ice better, you know?
So I think it's people's vision is, is correlated with how they, how they can handle hockey puck. I think, you know, understanding where the other players are on the ice is, is ultimately the goal. Like if you're the, if the play is in the left corner near the right shot D you give nine people in your sightline.
So how do we not know where to be in certain spots and how to close on gaps and do all that stuff? And I think because of the hockey training, we think so singular. We think about the eye so much that the video shows that it's like, okay, how do we take the eye and put it into the team a little bit?
It's hard to say, I just do one thing because it's each player is a little different, right? And it's the stressful thing about the job for the, for me on the professional side is I have to understand, you know, what coach Montgomery's thinking at a certain point in time when he's got these players on the ice. Like I have to be pretty cognizant about how an NHL team plays.
I have to be pretty cognizant about what the message might be in the locker room. So I definitely don't touch systems. I don't talk about it.
I don't, you know, I talk about certain spots we should be on the ice and how to look at it. And I just give guys without being too generic, I help them see the game from, from a different lens, you know, and it's the fun part about it is that I'll get a text after a game from a client being like with the time saying 1142 in the second, and I'll just clip it and see it, you know, and that's like, they know they screwed up, but they don't know why they screwed up or what could have been different in the play or a player will be watching a game and they'll see another one of the clients, you know, do something that we work on. And they'll say, Hey, Vegas 1240 in the second. Right.
So it's like, it's really, the cool stuff happens, but I think it's, it's just teaching them how to be a little bit more cerebral on the ice, how to not miss out on opportunities. Right. So if we can get 5% better in the corner, we're going to get more points by default, right?
If our touches get better, we're going to have more opportunities to, you know, stay in the offensive zone. So it's, you know, it's little things to be able to get more ice time. And the goal for me is like players perform better statistically.
It's fantastic, but the proof is in the numbers. Like it's not a, not statistic numbers, but a player going from 11 minutes a game to 15 minutes a game, it's a huge swing because it leads to more touches regardless, you know, and when I see a player that's not typically out on the ice, six on five or five on six, their coaches starting to trust them a little bit more and all that brings confidence. And the more confident you can help make your player, the better off they're going to do.
So it's fun. It's stressful for sure. When the players are stressed playing, I feel their stress and I shouldn't because it's just, but to me, it's just not a job.
I genuinely care for my clients as people and I want them to have the best, you know, year, career, whatever it could be, as long as I'm there to help them, you know, and I also realize I'm hired to be fired. Like I'm not everyone's, you might have a bad year after working with me and wasn't the intent of it. It's just maybe the bounces of the year and I'm going to get fired for it.
And I'm not going to hold it. It's it's again, it's part of it. I don't hold it against the player.
It just didn't work. Hasn't happened yet, but, but I'm, I, I know at some point it will and that's okay.
[Jason] (34:10 - 34:31)
Several people have come on the show and said that IQ can't be taught, but it's, it can be learned through creating environments where, where a player can figure it out. So whether that's smaller games with constraints or, or the like, how would you answer that question? Can IQ be taught?
And if so, how?
[Jon] (34:31 - 38:01)
I think so. And, and I think some of the, you know, like constraints and all that stuff, I just think, I really think people need to find someone that they can correlate with. I think that's the biggest negative in sports, right?
So athletes, they, they like safe, right? So they like the environment of this, the guys. So they go to the same gym, they go to the same trainers.
They do the same thing summer after summer because it's, it's what they're programmed to do. Right. Might be a little superstitious.
It might be, we get to be around the guys and all that stuff. So I think, I think we stop learning over time because our, our body gets used to it. And I kind of use the treadmill effect.
Like if you ran on the treadmill for 10 years and you haven't lost weight yet, it's because your body's just so used to doing that same routine routine. And then when you shock the system a little bit by going for a swim, it's like, that was the hardest thing I've ever done, you know? So it's, I think, I think players need to stop being so afraid of change.
You know? And, and I think hearing it from a different voice, it might be the same thing or it'll be helpful. I think that's a part of it too.
I think we're just stuck in the same environments over and over. Right. So I always tell my clients, the first thing we sign up, like we're, we might, you might have to fire me and that's okay.
But like, don't, you know, don't just keep coming back to me cause you're comfortable. Let's, let's keep growing and working and getting better together. I think it's like people who are the same skate guy, the same gym guy.
And if they had three bad seasons in a row, maybe it's, maybe it's time for change. Right. And they, you don't see a lot of that.
So that's part of it. I do think hockey IQ can be definitely learned. Like, you know, maybe it's again, I use the word generic, but like people don't watch enough hockey.
They watch highlights, but they don't watch enough hockey. Like what's your player doing? If you play like Charlie McAvoy, like, why aren't we watching more of Charlie McAvoy and how he, he does certain things.
And it's like, you know, I think guys are, you have the, the keyboard warriors. And I stayed off social media a little bit more and more here and there. But you look at like people yelling, like, why is Jacob Slavin on the team?
Right. And I'm like, have you watched him defend? Like, you know what I mean?
Like we all can't be Wierenski who's insanely good, like unbelievable. But like, that's, people don't see the little details that, that people do, you know, and what makes a player successful and the drive for them. Like these guys that I work with are like, they, they love the sport and they just want to get better.
Like Colin Graff is, is he's an art form out on the ice. Like, it's just so fun to watch. And I think he's at 30 points this year, 15 goals, 16 goals, whatever it may be.
I don't really remember, but like he's second on the team in San Jose and five on five points, second on team and five on five goals. Like that's, and here's a kid that came out of nowhere and just played at the NCDC. And wasn't supposed to have this path, but he just loves the sport and he's so dedicated to his craft.
And he just, he's a kid that keeps getting better. And I do. So I think I look at kids that are, you know, the anomalies that aren't supposed to happen.
And it's like, how do they do it? You know, like, who are they watching? What are they doing?
And I think everything can be taught. I disagree with, I think people just work on speed and strength too much. And that's all the focus is got to play fast.
It's got to be strong. Yeah. I agree with that too.
A sentiment.
[Jason] (38:01 - 38:04)
What are some right ways to use video and what are some wrong ways to use video?
[Jon] (38:04 - 40:22)
I think the wrong way to use video is just interfering with the, their coach any way possible, you know? And I know you had Freddie Meyer on here recently, so it's top of my mind, but it's like, you know, if I worked with a player at rivers, like I, I don't want to, I don't want to ruin anything he's got going on. Right.
So it's like, I, I, and again, it's respecting how his team plays and how he plays and all that stuff and just helping guys saying, okay, we missed this opportunity in the corner to get a puck and find the next guy. How do we fix it? Right.
So it's, I think the wrong ways to do it are talking about how the coaches want their kids to perform, you know, in terms of like systems and lanes and all that stuff. And I think the right way to do it is let's fix missed opportunities. Let's find out why we're missing out on opportunities.
Let's talk about spots, you know, we, we do, or don't need to be in, you know, and, and why, you know, I just think there's, there's so much power in the video, just like little tiny little things of, you know, we, we coach practices and I, and I get it. Like you dump a buck in the corner and you say, okay, we're going to go low to high. And you're going to give it from the goal line to the point.
That's how you want to play. But the guy never once looks at the guy open in the slot for a one timer. So it's like, we know the point's open.
We know it's part of the system, but like, why can't we just look there for a second? Because I can promise you that if you hit that pass and he scores, no one on the bench is going to be mad at you. You know what I mean?
Because he didn't go low to high. So, so I think it's playing understanding principles within the system. Like, yes, we want to dump the puck in, I get it.
But if we keep dumping it into the goalie, we got a different problem. So how do we fix that for you? So your player can go retrieve the puck, you know?
So it's like just kind of finding the little nuances in the game that, that'll help with team success. And I think like, and again, I'm not, I never worry about the team. I just worry about the individual client I'm working with.
So it's like, how do we, how do we manage better touches? How do we, how do we see the guy streaking down the far boards and hit them with the pass? Because you didn't, you missed them, you know?
And, and so I think the tools of video, it's like, how do we help the individual and stay away from the team stuff? Like can't, can't change how a coach wants you to, wants to play, you know?
[Jason] (40:23 - 40:31)
How do you leverage data and analytics? And where does it sit relative to the eye test? And what's your prediction directionally in terms of how that might change, if at all?
[Jon] (40:32 - 40:57)
It's changed the game a lot. I don't use any data or analytics in what I do. I know there's value in it.
I know there's a lot of value in it. You know, I look at, okay, I guess I just lied a little bit there. I look at percentages, like scoring chances, all that stuff.
I like the old school data, you know? And just like, okay, you got the puck here a lot and we're not producing. So we got to figure out why.
[Jason] (40:57 - 40:59)
Is that through tallying or is that through the eye test?
[Jon] (41:00 - 43:55)
It's through tallying. You see, like, I like heat maps. I think heat maps bring a lot of value because you see where the players are a lot.
You know, I think that's a really cool feature to have. But I don't get into deeper analytics. Like, you know, you're in the corner 78% of the time on this side and you're backhand.
And there's just, I think there's too much overload out there. You know, and I think the guys get a lot of it from their, especially at the pro level, they get a lot of it from their team. I mean, they have analytics departments that, you know, they kind of get beat over the head with.
You know, when we play Colorado, we know that they break the puck out of Kael McCarr's side 68 and a half percent of the time. So we got to get it to the other corner so he doesn't break it out. You know, so I get, I get the value in that, but it's, you know, for me, it's, I don't, I don't immerse myself with it.
I don't, I don't use it as probably as much as I should. And I can say confidently that I don't think I've done enough research on how to be better with using it. You know, so I think there's some value that I'm missing out on.
You know, is it, is it hurting any of my players because I'm not into it? No, I wouldn't say so. But I would say maybe I should spend a little time looking at it, but I really get into it when the player is starting to struggle and then I'll dive into it a little bit more.
So it's whatever. Ever Rodriguez and I have great conversations back and forth. He's going to kill me for saying it, but whatever.
But we, we converse a lot. He's a very smart, intelligent man. And it's fun to, to, cause he's such a fun player to watch.
And he, you know, January wasn't great this year and we're talking about it. And he asked me, he's like, I really need you to help me here. And I'm like, I'm, I'm trying, I'm giving everything I got.
So I, and that, that hit me. And I just sat there and I said, okay, like, what am I, like, how do I figure this out? Like how do I got to be better for him?
Right. So I went back in his Januaries and his last few Januaries were the same. So like, okay.
So we got a little, we hit the January rut in our hockey career. So the last few years, like January wasn't great. So next year I have to be, you know, I have to be better figuring out how to fix January.
So it's all the same. And, and we had a joke that some, not he and I, but there was someone had mentioned to me, talk about analytics that like David Pasternak before he had children or his child only had like eight goals in December over the last eight years. Right.
And like he had his kid and all of a sudden, like now he, I would hit last year. He had like monster numbers, of course. Right.
But it's like, all right. How's Poster in December? Like that's his lull.
You know, he wasn't scoring a lot through those times. He'd have assist and all that stuff. You look at his game logs, like there was times in December for eight years straight that he didn't score at David Pasternak's pace.
And it's just like, we're all human. Like we got to figure out what these little droughts are and how to fix through them. But I think, you know, if Evan didn't challenge me the way he does challenge me, I don't think I would have really dove into it that far.
[Jason] (43:56 - 44:10)
So if you look at what you're doing for these players at, at these high levels, what are the elements of it that would translate well down to the youth level, but just might have a cost or accessibility problem. And then what are the elements of it that would just be overkill?
[Jon] (44:11 - 49:13)
I think there's that the youth level is value in video. Like I say it all the time. I think there's more value in how you coach them.
And I think that allowing your players and it's, I think we say it too much and I don't think it really happens because I've been around the rinks enough to watch coaches like yell at their kids, be really like strict about certain things, you know, but just like allowing them to play hockey. And then I told you my oldest daughter is afraid to make mistakes. And I would, I know I'm not the only time I yell at my kids and, and you go through any one of my line, like on my lineups and just say, I get upset with them.
I have a conversation with the girls when they throw the puck away. Like, don't just make a play because you think it's there. Don't, don't dump it in.
If you don't have to, don't panic and throw it away like that's when I get upset as a coach and I I'll, I'll be hard on them. I'm not a jerk, but I'm just like, listen, we have to like, let's manage it. Make mistakes, trying to make a nice play or bringing someone closer to you so someone else can open up.
Like those are the mistakes I want. And also realizing too, that like we always talk about, I said earlier, but like players only have a certain ceiling to what they they're able to do. Right.
So help them play to their strengths. Like if there's a kid on your team that is pretty decent or it is comfortable, like chipping the puck behind the D and going to get it, don't shun them for it. Like help them find ways to retrieve it more.
Right. So they can build stronger in, in, in that forum, because you just got to help your team play to the strengths of your players. Like we have a girl on our team that she gets to the red line and she gets a little panicky with it, but she, she dumps it.
So it's having her teammates understand like, all right, when this person gets the puck, like just start going, you know where the puck's going. So let's, let's play off that a little bit and go. And I think like creating an environment of just it's, hockey's not perfect.
It's never going to be perfect, you know? And I think we see the social media, we see the highlight clips. And I think as coaches, we try to orchestrate the perfect, you know, scenario, you know, if we get a three on two, we're going to, this guy's going to drive and this guy's going to pull up and we're going to hit the wide lane.
And yeah, we have to teach them all that stuff, but it's like, we can't get frustrated when it doesn't work out, right? Because there's so many different variables that will come up into a play that will change it. So it's challenging at times to be a coach where you want, you know, your kids to have the freedom just to learn and play the game.
And because I think of the outside noise that surrounds us, and you can never, as people dog all the youth hockey coaches, I have a tough time with the negative talk about them. Now, I don't think, again, I think there's some like energy suckers out there. Like what do you call them?
What was Harry Potter? Dementors? Like they suck the energy out of the room.
Like that's, I do. I think there's genuinely coaches like that, but at the same time, like especially when it gets to this time of the year, like the coaches have more anxiety going in the rink because they're coaching the game and they look up and they see the parents just like staring at the bench. And it's like, now you're thinking about what the parents thinking instead of just focusing on the game.
And fortunately I don't have that issue, but you can see it. And you can see the stress on these coaches faces and we're all volunteers. Right?
So it's like, how do we do what's best for the kids and make it about the kids all the time? Now, with that being said, I struggle with how this time of year is handled. You know, it's different on the girl's side because a lot of it still goes on similar to what the boys do, but you know, we don't, we, we don't do ID skates.
We don't do, you know, we're not going to go to practice and see seven other colored jerseys out there. We try to have conversations with the families. We do it through tryouts and it's not always perfect, but that's kind of how the league rules are set up where I know, I just heard that the EHF like February 1st, you can tell your kids if they're coming back or not.
Right. Which is okay because there's kids that don't fit on a team. There's kids that maybe are behind it.
And I understand all that, but like, let them know on time. There's kids just finding out now, what is it? February 21st that they're not welcome back.
So it's like, where do you go? Because all the kids that got told on February 1st were able to like contact other teams, do their ID skates, do stuff like that. So it's like, I think there's, there's no perfect solution on how to fix youth hockey.
But I think if you're like, don't be afraid of the conversations and have them and help your kid, like line something up. If you know, you're going to cut a kid, call other teams in the league that you think they can fit on and say, Hey, I have a kid that that's, you know, he's on the back end of my group. He's not going to make it.
Would you have a spot if I got them over to you? And like, try to be proactive. And if you truly like the kid and the family, spend an extra five minutes on the phone and help them, you know?
So I think there's, it sucks. It's not going to change. I don't ever see this, this part of the game changing.
I think people are always going to strive to like have super teams or really good teams and all that stuff. And he, it is what it is. But I think that how we go about it would make a huge difference.
[Jason] (49:14 - 49:41)
So another thing on my mind is it seems like with some of the rule changes, like the, you know, the new pools of talent opening up at the, at the college level, you know, CHL and, and things like that, that, that the path for the local kid is getting harder. And it also heard that just the supply and demand is out of whack, right? Where the youth game has grown, but it's so expensive to feel the team at the college level that there's just not enough teams.
How do you feel about the state of the state in that regard and how would you like it to be?
[Jon] (49:42 - 53:15)
You know, I think it's great that the, the CHL is given opportunities for guys to play college. You know, I really do. I think it's going to, it's going to make college hockey better.
Obviously it's, it's certainly not fair. I don't want to say the word fair because I think everyone deserves a chance to play college hockey if they want to, you know, and also gives the kids in the U S the opportunity to go play in the CHL without being punished for it. I think it'll level itself out at some point.
What I think is ridiculous is that kids get the opportunity to sign a pro contract and come back to college. I think that's absurd. I'm sorry.
I'm glad the kids are getting an education, but there's like a, I just read there's a 23 or 24 year old freshmen somewhere like this. So, you know, what are we, what's the benefit of it? I think there, there has to be some more teams that open up in college hockey at some, at some point.
I do see club hockey making a huge push, which is great. Like we all want to play at the highest level we can, but at the same time, like if I'm going to be a division three player, what I, what I go to Framingham state and play in front of 150 people and I'm just using Framingham state. Cause it's just off the front of my mind.
Or would I go to UNC if I can get in and play in a brand new $50 million rink. Right. So it's like, there's, I'm going to go play at a bigger school so I can watch football and do all that stuff.
Right. So it's like, and then you got to think education first. So I think for the college hockey world, it's great in terms of how competitive it's going to be.
I think it's sad how it's been. It's like the shiny red ball. So I think kids that were in the middle of their recruitment process are being left behind a little bit because these doors have opened up.
Now we have to kind of pull a kid in from major junior. I don't know. It's you can look at it a million different ways, but I just think that's what makes important of the growth of the player.
Like I think there's a lot of players that are the same. Someone mentioned to me once that we talked about, you know, we eat the Jimmy PS in Foxborough. Right.
And if you went to, you know, I'm a five, nine right shot defenseman. Right. That was my, that was my thing.
I wasn't a six foot six guy. It wasn't whatever. But if I went to EPS and I watched all the guys walk down the stairs or they're all five, nine, five, 10, 175 pound, they all have the same bill.
They all look the same. Right. So it's like, I'm sure they all play similar to each other.
So like what's going to make you stand out. And I think the continuation of working on your game is, is going to be the most important thing. And, and I think you just have to keep growing as a player.
It's never too late. You're always going to get better and, and just shoot your shot. You know, and I think that there's too many advisors out there.
There's too many, you know, I think there's guys that do a fantastic job and they, they work and they care about their guys. I think there are guys that are in there just to take the money and they're not making any phone calls for you. You know?
So it's like, who you get in bed with is important. Pardon my language on that, you know, term, whatever, it's probably not a great term to use anymore, but, but I think like who you, you know, who you connect with and the people you can broaden your profile. I don't think it's only going to help, but going back on the question that I just diverted from was, I think it's good for college hockey.
I think it's, it's hard for the kids that want to attain their goals of playing. You know, I think it's going to make division three even stronger, but I think we'll see more division three teams. And listen, at the end, if you're good enough to play after college, you're going to be able to play.
And I don't think it matters where you play at that point. Like, you know, we said it back in the day, I think my senior year in college at division three, we had three guys playing the NHL from that class, you know, and it's just like, if you're good, you're good. You know, is it just, it is what it is.
So.
[Jason] (53:16 - 53:43)
Well, there's a bunch of topics we haven't hit, but maybe what I'll do is, I'm just going to lump them all together and throw out a little buzzword bingo. And you can just take it wherever you want as you react, as you get triggered by different words, I'm going to say. So, so, I mean, we've touched a little bit on agents and advisors, but I have that on my list.
Agents and advisors, reclassing, academies, zoom school, juniors, billeting, 21 year old freshmen.
[Jon] (53:43 - 57:21)
Yeah. Take it any way that you want. I think academies, there's, there's a lot, everyone's did, they're popping up at every corner.
I think there's some value in it for sure. I think the scary thing for me is families that are investing in these academies, there's no endowment. So if they shut their doors and you're paying $70,000 to go to an academy, like that money's gone, you know, it's not like you go to Taft and they have a billion dollar endowment and they can help, you know, that school's not the doors, the doors aren't shutting there.
Right. I also think that like, there's really a lot of these academies, there's no plan like, okay, we're going to skate six days a week at six hours a day. And we're going to do this.
And the kids are just burnt out. So to get better, you know, and, and the schedule sucks. They're playing 75 games.
I just think it's a hard model for lots. If kids have a tough time in the classroom, being in a physical school, I think it's a great model for kids that, that need the help that way. You know?
And I think that there's some merit to doing it the right way and, and having your kid take classes and learn to be independent and all that stuff. So not my cup of tea, I'm a traditional brick and mortar person. You know, so that's, that is what it is.
21 year old freshmen. It's been around for 20 years, 30 years. So it's not like, I remember even though I was an 18 year old freshman, we had 20 year old seat, an 18 year old freshman, a 20 year old freshman.
So it's just more talked about now because of the social media presence. You see the commitments listed, you see so-and-so's going to this school at this date. So I think there's just more information out there.
So I don't, I don't think that's been any different than what we've seen in the last 20 years. Do I think it's crazy sometimes? Yes, I do.
But I think there's obviously, you see your better players are going to go in as 17, 18 year olds, you know, and see, see where it goes. Like Carter Meyer doesn't have to be a 20 year old freshman. He's, he's one of the best that his age group in, I don't know, in the world, maybe, I don't know.
I, you know, I haven't, I'm sure he's up there, but he'll be able to go in as a 17, 18 year old kid. Right. So nothing new in the 21 year old freshman gamut.
So that's the same agents and advisors. I think the biggest thing to understand is that if your son is a really good player, like really good, it's free. Right.
So it's like, if, if you're paying a lot of money for a service, you know, what, what, what are we, what are we looking at? You know, like, how do we, you know, I can understand guys blooming late and being a division one player and needing the help. I think there's some, some huge merit to having the right agency and advisor on top of that.
I really think having an advisor that's tied to an agency is the most important thing. And what I mean by that, there's just, there's much more build and connection within those people. Like I could never be, I would never be an advisor.
I think people mistake me for it. I like working too much with other ones and agents, you know, and, and I'm happy to help them make a phone call for clients that I have or help out any way I can, but I just, just not for me. But at the same time, like guys that are guys that are backed by agencies or have law degrees and all that stuff, like those are guys that you want in your corner a little bit, you know?
And, and I think the guys that are just 21 years old straight out of college telling they're going to advise you. And I mean, who, I didn't know, I knew three college coaches personally at 21 years old, maybe and two of them were mine. Right.
So, you know what I mean? So like who, who are they actually helping?
[Jason] (57:21 - 57:28)
So juniors and, and you know, finishing a prep versus leaving early. I didn't say that one, but I'm adding that, I'm adding that last part in.
[Jon] (57:29 - 58:59)
I think it's case by case, you know, it's like look at Miles Brosnan's thriving at Dexter still, you know, and it's still going to put him in a position to be drafted as he's going to Harvard. Like, so I think great decision for him to stay. He got a few games in the USHL, he played in the bio seal, all American game, whatever it's called now.
I think that's great. I think leaving to go play major junior is an unbelievable opportunity. If the college is telling you to go, if you're going just to go and bet on yourself.
Okay. But like if, if a division one school is telling my kid to go play somewhere and she'll be able to come in the next year or two years later down the road, I'm going to have to listen. Right.
So I think there's, there's merit with backing. Like if you, if you have schools that are saying, I need you to go play here and we'll commit you, you gotta, you gotta do a leap of faith and buy, you know, bet on yourself for sure. I don't think you go just to go, you know, I think you have to, I'm still a believer that if, if you had seven points at the prep level, you got to get like, we got to get more than seven at the prep level before we think we can go play in Moncton and get 40.
Right. And I think the guys that are having success or are having a lot of success up there and they're all good players. And, you know, it's, it's, it's good for them.
So I think leaving for junior is good when you've kind of accomplished everything you can already accomplish at the prep level.
[Jason] (59:00 - 59:16)
And last question, and then we'll, I'll just give you a chance for any, any parting thoughts, but just as a, as a player who's striving or the parent trying to support the player who's striving. How do you distinguish between hope and patience versus delusion?
[Jon] (59:16 - 1:02:59)
We all hope what's best for our kids. It's really hard to be patient because again, the world around you, it's going so fast and you feel like you're missing out. I'll be the first one to say it as a parent and a coach.
Like I feel it and I have to walk away and like ground myself and just say, listen, this is, this is her path. It's her journey. I'm not going to insert myself too much.
I think delusion kicks in when we're in the merry-go-round. Right. So it's like when we have to leave this team, because this team is going to be better and they're offering me this.
And then, you know, you can only collect so many sweaters in your youth hockey career, you know? So I think delusion kicks in when we're chasing everybody else versus just investing in what you can do for your kid. Right.
And I think the chase is where the kids get left out. So, and I say this all the time, it's like you, my product's expensive. It is what it, like, that's just, I figured out a way to be pretty good at what I do.
Right. So, but it's not expensive to the point that if you have a family of four and you're going to a four day showcase in Chicago, it's going to cost you $6,000. Right.
So when we're chasing that, and that's why youth hockey is getting to 25, 30, 35, $40,000 a year. It's because we, we feel the need that we have to go to these events. And I say, there's some great ones out there, but why do we need to go all the time?
You know? And, and someone called, I'd said this on a podcast before, someone called me out and they said, well, your girls team goes to Florida. I said, we do at the, the 2000, sorry, at the U 12 level, there's the miss hockey invite and it's in Fort Lauderdale, but every team in the country goes to that tournament.
So it's only you 12. It's not you 10. It's not you 14.
It's just you 12. That's it. So, but we go down there and we get to play Caesars.
We get to play Penn's elite. We get to go and it's MLK weekend every year. It's really well run, really well put together.
And it's a nice little vacation to go in there. And when I did the math, we played at 10, you, we played in a Thanksgiving tournament on the Cape and we stayed at the Cape Cotter, which is now in Margaritaville. It costs me more money to play on the Cape than it did for me to play in Florida.
So there's some merit with all this stuff. Right? So it's like, but when you get stuck in the Midwest teams, like the Dallas and the Pittsburgh and all that stuff, and they have to travel by default, right?
Cause they only have so many things around them. So I get why it is there, but we have the best of the best here in New England. Right.
And I think that, you know, if you've got an opportunity to go play Shattuck or you've got an opportunity to go play someone, you take advantage of it, you meet somewhere, but play to college rank versus going to the middle of nowhere to play a game, you know? So I think the delusion is chasing all of that stuff versus investing what your kid really needs. And I think a lot of these kids need a little bit more love and a little bit more patience.
And I think they're going to have a lot more success. I think there's too many and I'm not there. There's too many hard card right homes.
There's too many angry parents leaving the rink. I mean, you just, these parent fights happen because of the stress that's on. And yes, there are some out there.
Don't get me wrong. But the stress of the sport is making parents crazy in the stands. Like, and that's, you know, and it's like, yeah, do they get mouthy and they get fights and all that stuff.
But it's like, that's the stress is created because they, you know, they're pushing, they're delusional about their kid or they're, you know, just sit there and enjoy it. Give the game back to them. Let them play.
You'll be shocked. If you're a parent and you're one of these people that pushes too hard, give your kid two months of the start of the season next year and just support them and see if it changes.
[Jason] (1:02:59 - 1:03:08)
Well, gosh, this has been such a great discussion, Jon. I know we're over. Is there anything I didn't ask that you wish I did or any additional parting words that you'd like to leave with listeners?
[Jon] (1:03:09 - 1:03:51)
No, I had a blast doing this. Sometimes I talk too much. But, you know, I think you've had some great guests and there's a lot of incredibly smart hockey people out there and it's fun to listen and learn from them.
And just, you know, it's hard doing these because I'm passionate about how I feel, about especially the youth game and where it's going. I'm not always right. I'm not trying to be the one that's always right.
I just want to help create just more awareness of what we're actually doing out there and just how to, like, just take a deep breath as a parent and just let the game happen, let the kids play the game, you know. So I appreciate the time with you today and having me on here and inviting me to do this. It was fun.
[Jason] (1:03:51 - 1:04:12)
Well, thanks for doing it. I learned a lot. And, yeah, I appreciate you taking the time to pay it forward.
So thank you again and see you around the rinks. Thanks for listening to Puck Academy. If you enjoyed this episode, follow or subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and share it with someone serious about their game.
See you next week.